Paper CCNA

HAMP

Have any of you guys ever bumped into someone who doesn’t really have a clue about Cisco, but has a CCNA certification?
They studied the books(kinda), but mainly grabbed those ‘Brain ****’, and taken the test.

I have, but I will talk about him after I hear a few of your stories

broli720

I may be in the minority, but this topic has been brought up before with other certs and I still don't think we gain anything from discussing it. Our focus should be helping those that are trying to understand the material.

Just my two cents.

HAMP

Oh, I didn't know that. I recently joined this forum and only have been in this part of it.

Yet, with your comment, I don't think they would want anyones help with understanding better or they wouldn't be buying brain **** and going that path.

Instead of this person getting/having a better understanding, he actually gave his advice that it would be simpler for me to just buy the answers.

But, if this topic is a problem, I wouldn’t be offended if a MOD simply just deleted it.

martell1000

having any kind of certification just means you knew the stuff you had to know on the time they asked you
i guess there are tons of people from all professions which dont know everything now they knew on a particular testday

ranging from ccna holders over mbas and even medical doctors ... but i guess this is just the way it is

but tell us the story OP - if its some kinda delightful

OfWolfAndMan

One of the reason the cert is losing its accreditation is because of people like that. Honestly though, when it comes down to it most of the time, the guy interviewing you for a network admin/engineer job will know if you know your stuff. They'll probably even put you in a lab environment to see what you can do.

DoubleNNs

I'm turning into a paper CCNA. I passed the test and couldn't manage to secure a job that used those skills. I remember the theory, but don't remember the commands. Give it some more time and if I don't actively keep up with labbing/reading, the skill-fade will get worse.

late_collision

OfWolfAndMan wrote: »

One of the reason the cert is losing its accreditation is because of people like that.

I think the bigger issue is the shear volume of CCNA holders. Pretty much any college or technical skills has programs tailored around the CCNA certificate. I don't want to suggest that the CCNA is diluted, but compare the traffic in this CCNA forum vs the traffic in the CCNP and decide for yourself. At the end of the day, the CCNA is still an entry level cert and it's pretty easy to spot the guys who bought their cert.

I also agree with DoubleNNs. Although I am scrambling towards my CCNP, I don't currently hold a networking job and topics are starting to get fuzzy. It's pretty depressing.

Magic Johnson

late_collision wrote: »

I think the bigger issue is the shear volume of CCNA holders. Pretty much any college or technical skills has programs tailored around the CCNA certificate. I don't want to suggest that the CCNA is diluted, but compare the traffic in this CCNA forum vs the traffic in the CCNP and decide for yourself. At the end of the day, the CCNA is still an entry level cert and it's pretty easy to spot the guys who bought their cert.

I also agree with DoubleNNs. Although I am scrambling towards my CCNP, I don't currently hold a networking job and topics are starting to get fuzzy. It's pretty depressing.

Another pro for the helpdesk/support argument. If you have this experience first and add to it with a CCENT/CCNA then you might just get that chance at it rather than someone straight out of college/uni with no experience.

Jon_Cisco

This is one of the reasons you will hear people say that the cert gets you the interview but not the job. If you brain **** the exam and interview in the same month you will probably be able to pass some basic questions. But two or three months later you won't know how the basic parts work together.

As to not using the technology I am afraid of that myself. I plan to get my CCNA this summer but it is unlikely to will move right into a networking position. My plan is to take one CCNP exam a year until I am working in the field. Just to keep me thinking about and using the cisco IOS.

MTciscoguy

I have seen this in many fields, I have retired from careers twice now in my lifetime and one that was really interesting was the jokers that worked for me when I was in the Military, some of my JR. Officers were really jokes, they had the theory down pat, but did not understand the real world application and could never figure out why we did things certain ways. I don't worry about it, as I am old enough to know, I will continue to run into people like that every single day.

matai

I honestly don't care if people use brain-****, it's up to them and what they want to get out of the exam. I choose to not concern myself with what other people are doing.

atl_libra

matai wrote: »

I honestly don't care if people use brain-****, it's up to them and what they want to get out of the exam. I choose to not concern myself with what other people are doing.

+1 I doubt brain dumpers are taking food out of anyone's mouth. If they don't have the motivation to actually learn the technology, are they really expected/able to thrive?

jvrlopez

Brain dumpers will eventually get found out if they even bother to try and go for a job that requires the skills associated with the cert.

I make sure to go back through my labs to keep my CCNA material fresh since I don't work in a Cisco environment.

JasminLandry

OfWolfAndMan wrote: »

One of the reason the cert is losing its accreditation is because of people like that. Honestly though, when it comes down to it most of the time, the guy interviewing you for a network admin/engineer job will know if you know your stuff. They'll probably even put you in a lab environment to see what you can do.

That happened to me once. They gave me an old Dell server and I had do install ESXi on it and I also had to P2V a laptop. After I completed the lab, they said they already chose me for the job they just wanted to confirm if I really knew the material like I said I did. So as @OfWolfAndMan said, usually the person interviewing you knows if you know your stuff or not. I also don't understand how people can **** on tests. In the interview that I had at the place I'm still currently working at, my boss asked if I knew anything about Linux. I told him honestly, I have studied Linux at school, but I've never worked with it in a real world environment. And because of my honesty and of course other things as well, I got the job. So instead of lying and saying I know something that I actually don't' i told him the truth and it was the best thing I could've done in that interview.

xnx

This is why i'm gonna go for my CCNP by the end of the year, even with no production network experience. If people are gonna be paper CCNAs then i'll be a proper CCNA and a partial paper CCNP :P

Hatch1921

I would consider myself a "paper CCNA".... I went through the Cisco Net Academy at my local CC.... studied like crazy and passed the test (2nd try). This was Jan 2013. I then went on to focus my efforts towards completing my BS in Tech Management (graduate next month on the 9th) Since then, I really haven't touched Cisco. Hindsight is 20/20 right... looking back I think I should have waited to knock out the Cisco courses and the CCNA at the very end. Now... I'm going to have to go back and study everything all over again (I'll still be a "paper CCNA") just to not come across as a complete idiot in interviews. I agree with JasminLandry. I'm not going to BS in an interview... all my experience or lack of... is coming straight from college... I'm as "green" as they get. I'd much rather just be upfront about the things I know or do not know... I think this will help me in the long run.

[Deleted User]

Just reading the books for the CCNA you can pass the certification. Having a lab is the key. Is it expensive, yes/maybe (depends on where you find your equipment and if you can negotiate for a good/fair price. Is it worth the investment, you better believe it! You can use the equipment for further studies such as you CCNP or just sell it for a profit return. I have my lab currently and it is fun finding new routers and switches and new expansion cards etc. and making new labs and new network diagrams. What I can't stand is why people braindump. You are just cheating yourself.

Qord

DoubleNNs wrote: »

I'm turning into a paper CCNA.

Same here, I've used Cisco-centric stuff at work for maybe 20-30 minutes since I got my CCNA. I decided to just let it die last year since I don't use it at all. I'd be embarrassed to keep it, show it on a resume, and not remember anything more than theory.

DoubleNNs

I don't think it's necessary to let it die. As long as you remember the theory and how everything works under the hood, you should still keep it. It's an entry-level cert, so I'm sure employers will understand if you aren't a CLI-wizard with it; as opposed to a CCNP who can't configure devices. Even at my current job, upper-management is pushing for all the data center engineers to get the CCNA within the next 2 years, even if they don't actively work with routing/switching. Simply knowing how the network works at a fundamental level helps with problem isolation and troubleshooting.

However, I know that I plan on labbing every now and then. As it is now, even tho I might not know commands by memory anymore, I'd feel comfortable on the CLI and given ample time could fumble my way around using the "?". If I lab and get even better using the "?" I think that could hold me over until I get a more networking-intensive role. Additionally, I plan to work my way up at my current employer and it seems like a lot of our lower level networking positions use scripts and management protocols/utilities/apps to do most of the config - I guess to accident proof changes to systems in production. So as long as I can follow along with what's going on behind the scenes, I think I'll be fine.

Still, I'm curious about OP's story. I'm sure this wasn't what he meant when he labeled his co-worker as a "Paper CCNA."

martell1000

i guess a big factor is how often you apply your knowledge. for example i learned a lot of frame relay stuff for the certs but never ever configured a frame relay enviroment after passing the ROUTE exam. so if you would throw me into a frame relay enviroment i would be lost at the first place, but i guess since i already did stuff like that once in my life i would be able to get into it again faster than someone who has absolutely never gotten in touch with this topic.

Magic Johnson

Qord wrote: »

Same here, I've used Cisco-centric stuff at work for maybe 20-30 minutes since I got my CCNA. I decided to just let it die last year since I don't use it at all. I'd be embarrassed to keep it, show it on a resume, and not remember anything more than theory.

How bizarre! So you put in all that work and effort and that's it? Over?

devils_haircut

I'm about to have my CCNA (next month), and since I don't work with Cisco gear in my day-to-day, I guess I'll be a "paper CCNA" as well. But my employer is very short-handed on networking people, and even as we speak they have a network analyst position available that they have been unable to fill. They know networking is my career path, and I have a feeling once I pass the CCNA, they might find a way to move me up since they have liked my work so far. I was lucky enough to step into a role where my predecessor had no clue what she was doing, and the turnaround has made a lot of important people extremely happy.

ccnpninja

I've been following the Cisco cert market for a while now, and I can say two things: the minimum cert preferred for most network engineering positions is CCNP or equivalent experience. What does that tell?
Frankly, having more Cisco certified folks around here -at least in my country- pushed me to think differently. I've seen CVs and I can sense there are many guys who did **** without taking the time to grasp the material. This will lower the value of Cisco certs, and definitely will increase the value of true network engineers on the long term.
Don't get despaired. Focus on your skills. Try to get hands on exp even by helping guys on the forums, and experience will come soon.

my 2c

W Stewart

DoubleNNs wrote: »

I'm turning into a paper CCNA. I passed the test and couldn't manage to secure a job that used those skills. I remember the theory, but don't remember the commands. Give it some more time and if I don't actively keep up with labbing/reading, the skill-fade will get worse.

I would suggest labbing with gns3 or packet tracer to keep your skills sharp but you definitely need to find a role where you can put those skills to good use even if it's just a noc role to start off.

W Stewart

I've got my CCNA and CCNA security but have never been in a real networking role involving routing and switching. I've had the opportunity to work with ASA firewalls at the job that I'm leaving but I'm going to be moving more in to the sys admin side of things and leaving cisco behind. I still believe that the network+ and the CCNA have given me valuable networking knowledge that has helped me on the systems side of things so I definitely think it was worth it even if I don't touch another cisco device.

Magic Johnson

devils_haircut wrote: »

I'm about to have my CCNA (next month), and since I don't work with Cisco gear in my day-to-day, I guess I'll be a "paper CCNA" as well. But my employer is very short-handed on networking people, and even as we speak they have a network analyst position available that they have been unable to fill. They know networking is my career path, and I have a feeling once I pass the CCNA, they might find a way to move me up since they have liked my work so far. I was lucky enough to step into a role where my predecessor had no clue what she was doing, and the turnaround has made a lot of important people extremely happy.

To be fair most all vendor certs require 2 years min in some sort of IT role. For example if you were a hiring manager and you got a CV from someone who was a bartender, then a gardenener, then a car salesman but applied for a networking engineer role just because they had a CCNA cert would you hire them?

Imo, braindumpers don't devalue certs at all. You'd have to be a fool to hire someone with no IT experience and just a CCNA imo for a role in networking.

wallpaper_01

I completed CCNA in June last year and just started CCNA:Voice, I thought I had forgotten most but it all came back very quick after labbing again. Its sometimes surprising how much you retain and don't realise...

HAMP

Humm, this thread kinda went a different direction than expected. I was wondering if any of you, yourself meet and dealt with a real paper CCNA. What I call a paper CCNA is a person who might have read a little of the book, but really taken and passed the test from studying the brain ****.

For the ones who said they consider themselves a paper CCNA because you are not in the field or using the practiced skills learned, to me, you are NOT a paper CCNA. You’ve taken the test, you have proven you studied and passed.
I consider a paper CCNA a person who practically went on his computer and printed the cert with his own name on it.

I have been in the IT field for a while, and I have been somewhat backwards with it. I have been lucky to gain experience before taking/studying for a certification. Getting jobs has been based on experience, but not certifications. I only have the certs I do have, because I gotten tired of that particular question in interviews of ‘Do you have’.

Getting the CCNA cert story is a little different. I do have experience, but I am a complete coward of giving my money away if I fail a test… Heck, honestly I’m completely a cheap ass with giving away money. I have heard so many stories of how many times some people had to take the test over and over, but that is another story of my life, and this thread is about paper CCNA.

Opps, so far, I’ve made this post long, and haven’t even gotten to the clown I meet.

It’s coming, and I hope I haven’t hyped up the upcoming story/situations I have experienced from him.

xnx

If you read both books and give it 100% then there's no reason you shouldn't pass, obviously you need to be labbing regularly and udertand CLI basics.

If that still isn't enough then well how about the 2 test option? I took that route since I'm in the final year of a degree at a top university and that took all my time up.

I had a brain freeze on ICND 1 where I forgot to go into priveleged mode and was trying to run 'sh runn conf' ............

Qord

To get it back on track, yes I've worked with a few paper-certed people, CCNA's and an MCSE. I don't think any of them have maintained steady employment in the roles they get hired for, it only takes a few weeks on the job to know they're way below the level they claim to be at.

I'm not even sure how one of those guys gets hired, he must get lucky with interviews that are 100% personality and no technical questions. When I was studying for my CCNA, I asked him for help with vlsm. Instead of actually help, he offered to email me all the vlsm questions he had copies of. I politely declined and told him I really wanted to learn it and he looked confused. Turns out he didn't know how to do basic subnetting, he just memorized facts and answers. I still see him around from time to time and don't understand how he's here, there is literally nowhere within an hour's drive that will hire him now.