Australia: Can't get out of L1 Helpdesk, guidance needed

nrky · January 2015

G'day!
I've been employed as a L1 Helpdesk "analyst" for almost two years now, after 20 years of being "The unofficial IT guy" for every company I've worked for. During my employment in a NOC for a large ISP in Australia, I've gained my CCNA: Security, Security+, ITIL V3 Foundation, and am fairly confident in getting my SSCP shortly.
My problem is that I've been applying for roles with more networking responsibility and opportunities to troubleshoot (rather than just "catch-and-despatch" in the L1 role I'm doing now), for six months now, but have not hit any traction. I've had a couple of offers for "entry-level Network Security" roles, but they paid significantly less than I'm getting now (try 50% less, which is ridiculous).
I've applied for every suitable position within my company that has opened up, however for some god-awful reason, this company never hires internally and always ends up going with an external candidate (it's not just my applications, the other staff here have noticed it also). Moving on to an L2 role within this NOC is not an option, as my manager does not want to consider me for this role. The company within which I work has no internal training opportunities, yet they are one of the largest wholesale Fiber ISP's in Australia. We have been losing staff left right and center, because they feel that their skills aren't improving whilst working here.
Now, I don't want to be that guy that jumps ship, but I don't see any opportunities in this company for growth, but my current professional experience is not getting me any better roles. My current role is not adding to my skills base, so I have to use my personal time (and night shifts) to improve myself.
Help me Obi-Wan Kenobi, you are my only hope. The depression of being stuck in a dead-end job with no prospects, but being unable to take a lower-paying job with more responsibility because I have a family to feed, is killing me.
Cheers, NrKy.

MeanDrunkR2D2 · January 2015

Well, to be honest, it sounds like where you are at is a dead end. Now, with those other jobs you have been offered, do they have a path to rapid personal growth within them so that you can get back to the level of income you are accustomed to? Any of your old co-workers that are elsewhere and in better roles/making same or more money that can help you network and get an "in" with that company? Also, with those "entry level network security" roles would that be something that you could stomach using them for a year at the lower pay to get that very valuable experience? Would you be willing to relocate to another area that would pay better and give you more opportunities for growth and pay? I know that isn't ideal for many as moving away from family can be tough.

It's fairly clear that others see the same that you do and that the company you are currently with is a dead end with no/limited chance of growth. You have IT experience so you could translate that into something maybe a desktop type of role which may be the next step in your career to get you out of there and somewhere that they will value you more. Generally NOC's for entry level are laughably low pay in many areas compared to someone experienced. If you can't swing the lower pay, you may want to broaden out your search for other IT type of roles.

R2D2 has spoken *hiccup* Darned booze.

Kinet1c · January 2015

You're applying for more networking work, yet you don't have your CCNA R&S? I'd say that's one major stopping point. Forget your SSCP and get the CCNA R&S.

If your company doesn't hire internally, you need to move externally. Once you get the above mentioned certification, you shouldn't have a problem. Simple: If they're not being loyal to you, why are you being loyal to them?

anhtran35 · January 2015

I'm having trouble understanding your post. Are you applying for Network Administrator positions outside your company? It seems like you have been only applying internally with your current company.

Essendon · January 2015

A couple of my mates also worked at a large fiber ISP too and they too got the hell outa there since they couldnt move up the food chain. Now you gotta look after yourself, there's nothing wrong with jumping ship after 2 years at a place. If your are in Melbourne, pm me, I 'could' hook you up at a decent place I used to be at (depending on your experience and desired role).

I realize certs are everything but mate after 20 years in IT you need to have earned a few more certs that the entry level ones you have. I suggest you work towards a higher level/different cert while you apply for roles. CCNP/OCSP or perhaps even some Microsoft stuff (to show you are well rounded and understand the big picture - networks arent any use if the servers arent running kind of thing).

Another thing that comes to mind is maybe your resume doesnt sell your skills well. Like I said, certs arent everything and with 20 years in IT you should have had decent experience. This may sound a bit harsh, though it's not the intention, but after 20 years in IT, how/why are you still in helpdesk? Or when you say 'unofficial IT guy' you held positions in different fields altogether and helped out with IT 'stuff'? Looks like you need to give us some more information here mate.

IIIMaster · January 2015

Jump ship and dont look back. Maybe you might have to take a lower pay job. But at the same time you may be over compensated for the work you do now because your company pays so well.

nrky · December 2015

Update: Almost a year after starting this thread, I'm still stuck in this craphole of a job, and am now being made redundant, however they're still keeping me on to do "data entry" work at the same paygrade.
I've been studying the CCNP: R&S (with a bit of CCNP: Security and CCNP: Service Provider to catch up with some tech the engineers use at work), as well as the SSCP, and working on my MCSA. I've also been studying for the CCNA: Collaboration (previously known as CCNA Voice), and some of the CCNA: Wireless, to round out the lab I have at home.
I've interviewed for Network Engineer positions with other Telco's in Australia, and the position went to Indian blokes with more experience, for entry-level positions paying minimum wage. I've now applied for the internal promotion to L2 Network Engineer a grand total of NINE times since starting there, and they still go with people with more experience. I've been spending the last year studying Fiber Optics, MPLS/VPLS and BGP so that I can do the L2 Network Engineer position, to the point where I can now actually troubleshoot stuff for the L2 engineers when they are too busy, but still, the managers hire externally and refuse to give me the position.

I've been applying for any and all IT jobs that I can find on the local job websites, recruiter pages, etc., even the part-time ones that pay minimum wage, just so that I can start afresh in a new company with better prospects of either adding to my skills base, or prospects for more responsibility.

To answer Essendon's question about 20 years' experience, I've been working random jobs for two decades now: forklift driver, supermarket cashier, service station attendant, call centre, and in every single job I end up helping the company with their IT problems because they don't have a local on-site tech, or they need someone to call head office and get stuff replaced but they don't know what's wrong with the systems to ask the blokes in head office.

I'm seriously starting to get sick of this entire industry, it seems that no matter what certs I get, or what tech I work on at the office, I cannot get the hell out of this bloody Service Desk job! I know blokes that started their career and did bugger-all study, and within two years were on $100,000+ salaries, yet I'm on HALF that, with spending/wasting thousands of hours studying and labbing. It's starting to seem like it doesn't matter what tech you know or have tinkered with, if you're a Type A personality, you can bullshit your way through your career.

Starting to miss driving forklifts for $30 an hour....

nrky · December 2015

P.S. Over the last year I've basically become the company's Active Directory administrator (we have about 500 staff), as I've been taking the calls for password resets, re-adding computers to the domain, etc., as well as other random desktop-support calls that the main GroupIT team haven't got the time to handle (I'm actually the Level 1 first-response person for their team, so I get ALL their calls), so I basically already do Desktop Support.

P.P.S. Long-term goal is to get in to Security. I want to get my hands dirty in managing firewalls and mitigation strategies. I'm aiming to get the CISSP when eligible (yeah, I know, it's more of a management cert), and will get some security-vendor certs in the meantime (F5, Bluecoat, CCNP: Security, etc.). The problem is that all of the Security Engineers I've met, started out as Network Engineers or Server Engineers, and I cannot seem to get either of those jobs, despite having at least the entry-level certs needed for them (CCNA and MCP). Every company in Melbourne wants ten years' experience for a $50,000/year server/network administrator, which is friggen insane, given the miniscule responsibility of the position described by the interviewers when I meet with them.

UncleB · December 2015

You have a difficult situation in a country whose economy is looking decidedly weak at the moment, so I think you are unlikely to see a change in the market anytime soon.

Your comment about Type-A personalities is bang on the money, but this is true for these people in whatever career path they go into - it is just a fact of life and won't help you to waste energy hating or envying them.

To help your current situation I would recommend looking at the job spec for the roles you really want, see what certs they ask for and focus on these while applying as much of it as your current role will allow. It won't secure you any jobs but will help get to interview stage for applications where you can use your "hungry to learn" personality to persuade them that your relative lack of experience will make you a great hire.

The number of network engineer roles is much fewer than the number of desktop support roles in the marketplace, so why not stretch your desktop skills as well and get ahead of the curve with Windows 10 and Office 365 MOS certs where there are still relatively few qualified staff - it may get you a leg up where you can leverage your existing skills and experience to boost earnings and level of interest in the work.

Looking at your situation (from the viewpoint of an employer), I see a 1st line support person who wants to jump to the equivalent of a 3rd line role, so you need to try to beef up your resume to position yourself as 2nd line support with elements of 3rd line which moves you closer to where you want them to see you.

It is much easier to move up the career ladder by changing companies so get aggressive in bolstering your skill set with certs relevant to what you do and what you want to do and move on - check the market rates for the role to help negotiate in interviews and get some practice in to improve your technique if you have people who will help (this is often given by HR as part of the redundancy package).

Don't lose heart as it can be a slow process, but stay focussed and keep the right attitude and something will turn up.

thanks
Iain

nrky · February 2016

Thanks for your reply!
Regarding the "bolstering your skill set with certs relevant to what you do": I've acquired the MCP Server 2012 cert, but am starting to have a serious look at the MCSE for Windows 8.1 ("Enterprise Devices and Apps"), and take the upgrade exams for Win10 when they are made available. I think there's a Win10 MCP (one-exam) upgrade path for the MCP from Win8 to 10, but I don't see the other exams yet being upgraded.
As far as networking goes, anything beyond CCNA is wayyyy beyond the requirements of my current role, and all entry-level roles. I've been tinkering with the CCNP: Security lately, but without a job that allows me to get hands-on experience with any of the tech in the exam, it's going to just be yet another paper cert.
I've been looking at some pentesting certs, though their training requirements seem rather prohibitive, and I wouldn't hire someone with only service desk experience and a CEH that he obtained "Just for fun".
I got the Server2012 MCP before most candidates in the market, but it made absolutely no difference in obtaining a sysadmin job, and ended up taking this service desk role just to pay the bills.

Trying hard not to lose focus on Security specialization track, however the 300+ other applicants I'm up against for even entry-level systems/network support roles, often tend to have more experience than I, yet I'm hitting my head against a brick wall trying to GET that experience. I study security and hacking because it's FUN, and it's increasingly frustrating to be surrounded by network engineers who don't own a single piece of equipment, never lab anything, and don't even study anymore, despite being in entry-level network engineer roles and being paid only $60k/year. They've all tended to stop studying once obtaining their CCNP through an Indian training school and getting their "ideal" job.

Sheiko37 · February 2016

This is a list of certifications you've said you're studying for.

SSCP
CISSP
CCNP: R&S
CCNP: Security
CCNP: Service Provider
CCNA: Collaboration
CCNA: Wireless
MSCA
MCSE
Blue Coat
F5
CEH

I suggest you focus on one at a time and actually achieve it. You said a year ago you were confident you were getting your SSCP shortly, what happened? I don't know if you should even go for the SSCP, but you don't get to criticize the study efforts of others when you're not following through yourself.

Have you gotten any interviews? How did they go? When unsuccessful did you ask them what steps you should take to get that position? Have you spoken to the network engineers at your company and asked them the steps they've taken to get their job? Have you networked on Linkedin?

...and if you plan on staying in the IT industry in Australia then I highly recommend you drop the casual racism against Indians.

nrky · February 2016

Sheiko37 wrote: »

This is a list of certifications you've said you're studying for.

SSCP
CISSP
CCNP: R&S
CCNP: Security
CCNP: Service Provider
CCNA: Collaboration
CCNA: Wireless
MSCA
MCSE
Blue Coat
F5
CEH

I suggest you focus on one at a time and actually achieve it. You said a year ago you were confident you were getting your SSCP shortly, what happened? I don't know if you should even go for the SSCP, but you don't get to criticize the study efforts of others when you're not following through yourself.

I was considering the CCNP:RS and SP for a while there because that seems to be the skill set required for the network engineers in the company for which I work, however the industry has changed somewhat recently to focus primarily on Transmission technology(EOSDH, DWDM, etc.), rather than Layer2+, which isn't where I want to take my career.
As for the SSCP, I already have the Security+, which from what I've gathered is equivalent to the SSCP anyway. After working my way through the books for SSCP, I don't see much of a difference. I would like to have it, and could probably bash it out in a week's study, though after reviewing the coursework, it doesn't seem like it'll add much to my resume.
Re: the Bluecoat, F5, Checkpoint, VMWare, etc. vendor-specific certs; they're good for studying the basic fundamentals of, though I don't see the need for the certifications without any actual paid experience in the equipment. I can lab them at home as much as I want, but getting the certs likely won't make any difference to my job prospects.
My current experience basically covers desktop support and CCNA-level networking; I'd like to get MS certs that match my current experience levels, though I'm not sure if the MCP (one exam) will suffice, and have looked at the MCSA: Desktop (with additional Win10 exam) and it doesn't look too difficult at all.

Sheiko37 wrote: »

Have you gotten any interviews? How did they go? When unsuccessful did you ask them what steps you should take to get that position? Have you spoken to the network engineers at your company and asked them the steps they've taken to get their job? Have you networked on Linkedin?

Have had about a dozen interviews with recruiters over the last year, only a few were referred to the employer, from whom we received no followup response. I always ask for feedback, and recruiters only ever say "They went with more experienced candidates, sorry but I don't have more information from them than that." I've had three interviews directly with employers; one was a Telco Lvl1 Support role specializing in transmission tech, which went to people with actual experience in GPON (rather than osmotic studies working for a competitor), the other was with a Security-focused MSP and it turned out that the role was actually only part-time, paying $21 an hour (inclusive of shift loading for night shifts AND casual rate), you cannot feed a family of four in Australia on USD$20,700 a year ($29K in AUD), and the third was just a meeting with the HR team of a huge MSP in Melbourne to determine my skills set and what types of roles I can do for them (two months later and no entry-level roles yet, but here's hoping!)

Sheiko37 wrote: »

...and if you plan on staying in the IT industry in Australia then I highly recommend you drop the casual racism against Indians.

I'm not alone in my frustration with the rorting of the Visa system in Australia, it's a systemic problem, and IT just tends to attract people from the subcontinent in particular.

No_Nerd · February 2016

Maybe just maybe it is a personality issue .... and not so much a technical ability issue. Maybe no one likes you

Sheiko37 · February 2016

I agree it might be an attitude problem.

From your reply it looks like you're going to continue studying a dozen certifications at the same time without achieving any of them, you're not going to talk to any of your peers about your career, and you're going to maintain your racist attitude towards them.

TheFORCE · February 2016

Maybe you need go re-work your resume. Post a sanitized version here and the members will give you feedback on what to correct or change. Words are very powerful when you use them properly.

Australia: Can't get out of L1 Helpdesk, guidance needed

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