Have I wasted 2 years of my life?

Deus Ex Machina · September 2016

Hi guys, I know this isn't exactly a forum for theatrics or for whining, but I am in a bit of a panic at the moment haha.

I'm currently a junior working towards a BS in Management Information Systems.

I have a passion for project management, and I hope to take the CAPM within the next few months once I get the education hours requirement out of the way. I've been able to hold up some good grades, and my tuition is getting covered by scholarships so thank god for that at least.

I've only just now realized that employers don't care about management skills or certifications for their entry level positions, they want technical skills in their entry level candidates, so I feel like I am about to hit an iceberg.

I have no idea what I want to do in terms of my career in IT as I have zero exposure in anything beyond the most rudimentary knowledge you would expect from someone who plays games on his computer all the time and fixes laptops at work.

I have applied for several IT rotational internships that I hope will help me with this, but I have my concerns that none of them are going to pan out because of the aforementioned lack of technical skills. I do have a couple of loose connections, and I've done everything I can to improve my chances (attended job shadows, contacted recruiters via email, etc.), so I might have a chance, but I just don't know.

I COULD switch over to a Networking Information Technology major and still graduate in 2 years with a minor in MIS, but I am not sure if that would really be a smart move seeing as I don't even know if I would like networking, or if it would even be worth it. I would have to make the switch within the next few days or else I would have to stay back longer to graduate.

I am also afraid of studying for something like A+ now because I don't know whether I would be better off trying to learn a little bit of a programming language to at least stand a chance if I get an interview for the internships, they apparently love that. Those interviews would start happening in the next 3 weeks.

Please help me

Any advice would be appreciated.
I don't know what you guys could really tell me but I know there are a lot of smart people here so I figured I would ask.

And just to clarify something, my scholarship won't cover my tuition beyond the next 2 years if I have to stay in school longer than that.

MeanDrunkR2D2 · September 2016

An MIS degree is perfectly fine and I personally would prefer someone to be more well rounded than one of those specific degrees that cover a narrower scope. Get those internships and study and work hard. You'll be fine. I got my degree in CIS which is very similar and have worked in some highly technical roles.

thomas_ · September 2016

I would finish out your current degree. No use in changing degrees only to have your funding source dry up. Who knows what would happen then... You might try to pick up a cert during the down time such as Christmas, Summer or Speing break, assuming you aren't taking any classes.

UnixGuy · September 2016

Don't panic mate, your degree is more than fine and you're lucky that you don't have student loan.

Getting your first job is hard anyway, whether it's project management or Networking. Keep trying hard to get that first internship. Even if you start in a Helpdesk first, gain some project management certifications, and then later get your target job - so what? nothing is lost.

DatabaseHead · September 2016

You seem like a smart person and your "gut feeling" aka intuition has served you well. Management degrees and the CAPM will get you nothing on any regular basis with 0 experience.

Data, Security, technical skills pull it in. This is becoming more apparent through the data age.

IMO you are putting the proverbial "cart before the horse". How can you manage a project when you don't know what you are managing? Methodology will tell you one thing, real world will tell you another. While your efforts to become a project manager are noble, you have to ask yourself the questions, what projects do you want to manage? IT, civil projects, Shuttle trips to Mars? It's more than "managing projects"......

My advice to any young person is to learn core level skills. Florish in that realm and then advance.

Hope I didn't come off negative but those are my thoughts.

My last piece of advice calm down and be patient. You will do fine.........

twodogs62 · September 2016

Finish your current degree.
i would not spend time on capm if you are entry level.
i'd work on A+ and Net+ First. Maybe look at MTA. But note the 365 expires next summer.
The benefit is these are good core Certs.
the benefit you gain from these Certs is exposure to the core technical areas.
it will help you get the basics and discover what interests you.
after you get degree look for good entry level positions to get experience.

as you get experience look for areas that interest you and start getting a few Certs.
and hopefully with that you can build into the position you want.

volfkhat · September 2016

I gotta agree with Databasehead;
I never heard of a Bachelors in MIS.
Definitely seems backwards...

I certainly wouldn't hire a PM with Zero work experience (but what do i know).

With that being said, i don't know your school's curriculum either.

Perhaps you are also learning about Foundational Networking, and PC hardware?
Perhaps you are required a class on Windows Operating System, and Linux?
Perhaps learning about Database Administration, or basic Security?
or Perhaps a course on how to program with Python?

As you can see... it really just depends.

However, if your school is NOT gonna cover any of the aforementioned....
then i would DEFINITELY be concerned.

One of my biggest gripes are Managers who don't understand the scope of Technology.
Worthless.

Also, i've seen threads on here talking about how Project Management jobs have DRIED UP in the past 3 years. I get the impression that PMs are "out of fashion" at the moment.

Take a look at Professor Messer and/or Cybrary.it (sooner than later).
Compare it with your MIS curriculum. See how much overlaps. You may have to supplement your own training while still in school...

Good Luck!

MeanDrunkR2D2 · September 2016

MIS has been an IT track for a very very long time. And it doesn't mean that you are pigeonholed into a PM role.

DatabaseHead · September 2016

Volf - disclaimer just my opinion

A couple of things have happened IMO... The PMO's in the large companies are unable to provide true VE (Value Enhancement) to the upper, uppers. This is starting to create a shift in organizational structure. PMO's are generally ineffective and with the current movement behind big data, (mining, analysis, visualization, etc) the dollars are starting to funnel behind these efforts which in turn creates a new knowledge worker. This is happening to conventional requirement focused business analyst as well. These are being phased out, instead you have techno functional resources becoming the new in thing. People who can't develop front end applications, but these folks are able to develop SQL objects along with Cubes, Dashboards etc. These folks are more sought after now instead of the classic PM or BA. What I am seeing is project based BA's being shifted back into operational positions. Financial reporting, such as invoicing and purchase orders in procurement or whatever the business needs. No longer are they exclusive to project work, in fact projects are being treated as projects like they were in the 70's and 80's, just another task to do.

I believe in 2 - 3 years project management will still be existing but in a very limited capacity. I recently experienced a situations where a developer was being told by 4 - 5 different PM's to complete task, the developer quit and shortly after the project was disbanded. These companies need to start focusing on getting people who can actually do the work, not people who can communicate well and prioritize task. You just don't need that many people to do that type of work.

I agree MDR2 the degree is fine and can lead to a lot of different openings, my gripe/concern was getting the CAPM and expecting it to do something for you with no experience. It won't.

volfkhat · September 2016

DB,
Thanks for the insight :]

MDR2 is correct; i guess i should have better targeted my rant.

But, the OP said that something about "passion for project management"....
so That's where i was coming from.

Now factor-in what DB just said about the future of PM (ie: a reduced/limited capacity)....
it starts to raise some flags.

"...companies need to start focusing on getting people who can actually do the work, not people who can communicate well and prioritize task."

~ Nailed it.
Exactly what i was trying to say when i asked about OP's curriculum.

doctorlexus · September 2016

Work on A+ and CCENT. Throw in Linux+ if you have time. That should get you up to speed on the entry level side of technical things. Don't worry about another degree.

nster · September 2016

For PM, I have seen that your degree does matter, while for the beginning roles, it doesn't matter much. Getting technical knowledge and experience at first will be crucial, so focus on that in your spare time and after your degree.

scaredoftests · September 2016

Never look at things you have done as a waste. Life is a learning experience.

PJ_Sneakers · September 2016

You need both. I tried strictly technical and not having a degree held me back.

DatabaseHead · September 2016

Just a follow up\

If you like the degree stay with it, you can land a job with an MIS. Like others have mentioned don't waste time with the CAPM, it's a relative unknown and it's not going to help you all that much, if at all.

Focus on some technology. If you want to get into IT this is a must IMO. I don't agree that you have to get A or N+ but something would be good. The CCNA can be daunting and some of the Microsoft exams can be as well.

Do some research on jobs that are going to be hot in the next 3 - 5 years and align your interest with one of those categories. My findings have led me too 4 different roles.

Application Developer
Security Analyst
Big Data Developer
System Analyst (Technical BA with development skills for unit testing etc).

Deus Ex Machina · September 2016

Thank you guys for the responses, its helped to clear up my head and has given me a new sense of direction. I've accepted that I am not going to be a PM straight out of college, but I am content with trying to forge a career path in IT via certifications. The CAPM has been shelved, potentially forever if I wind up being able to take the PMP instead down the line. But that's very far down the line.

Heeding your advice, I'll aim for an A+ certification first, and then go for my Network+. Based on what I've observed studying for those certs, I may go for Security+ if I feel like something along the lines of Information Security might be the right option for me, or I might go a different route (such as CCENT) if I feel like I want to embrace networking. My image for my future would become much clearer at that point, and I would only expand my certs from there.

I've also put Linux+ on my radar as I feel like that would be a great cert to have.

The IT depth of my MIS curriculum is definitely not where it needs to be for me to compete for serious jobs in the field just by itself, but it almost looks like that may be a blessing in disguise if I can build a cert based resume, with the degree as a general indicator of my broader range of skills that could also help me get promoted in the long term.

I am going to fight like hell to get those internships.

Thanks again guys

MeanDrunkR2D2 · September 2016

Deus Ex Machina wrote: »

Thank you guys for the responses, its helped to clear up my head and has given me a new sense of direction. I've accepted that I am not going to be a PM straight out of college, but I am content with trying to forge a career path in IT via certifications. The CAPM has been shelved, potentially forever if I wind up being able to take the PMP instead down the line. But that's very far down the line.

Heeding your advice, I'll aim for an A+ certification first, and then go for my Network+. Based on what I've observed studying for those certs, I may go for Security+ if I feel like something along the lines of Information Security might be the right option for me, or I might go a different route (such as CCENT) if I feel like I want to embrace networking. My image for my future would become much clearer at that point, and I would only expand my certs from there.

I've also put Linux+ on my radar as I feel like that would be a great cert to have.

The IT depth of my MIS curriculum is definitely not where it needs to be for me to compete for serious jobs in the field just by itself, but it almost looks like that may be a blessing in disguise if I can build a cert based resume, with the degree as a general indicator of my broader range of skills that could also help me get promoted in the long term.

I am going to fight like hell to get those internships.

Thanks again guys

I'll be up front and frank with you on this. Since you are getting a BS in MIS, I wouldn't bother with the A+ or N+ certifications. They are rather "low level" and not really useful past MAYBE getting your first job after graduation and in fact most employers won't care about those. You'd be better served going for a MCSA in Windows 10/Server 2012/2016 and the CCENT or maybe CCNA. Your internships will give you far more value than those CompTIA certs would. (The only one that would give you a return would be the Sec+ if you are going for Gov jobs) Linux + is a good one, as would be the Red Hat ones. Don't be one that has 5-6 certs before you even work an IT job, as that just screams that you know only the book stuff, and not how it works in the real world.

Focus 100% on those internships and you'll be golden when you graduate. Good luck!

volfkhat · September 2016

MeanDrunkR2D2 wrote: »

I'll be up front and frank with you on this. Since you are getting a BS in MIS, I wouldn't bother with the A+ or N+ certifications. They are rather "low level" and not really useful past MAYBE getting your first job after graduation and in fact most employers won't care about those. You'd be better served going for a MCSA in Windows 10/Server 2012/2016 and the CCENT or maybe CCNA. Your internships will give you far more value than those CompTIA certs would.

MeanDrunk may have given good advice....

but i gotta disagree.
lol

If the OP doesn't know much about the INSIDE of a computer... then the A+ curriculum is definitely worthwhile.
If the OP doesn't know a default-gateway from a Cat-5 from a 802.whatever.... then the Network+ curriculum is worthwhile.

I'm not saying he needs to Earn the certifications... but he should at least have a thorough understanding of the subject matter.
a SOLID knowledge-foundation is essential for Most things in life.

MeanDrunkR2D2 wrote: »

Don't be one that has 5-6 certs before you even work an IT job, as that just screams that you know only the book stuff, and not how it works in the real world.

Oh man... i REALLY have to disagree with this.
If College isn't the place to learn THEORY.... then where is??

nster · September 2016

Not sure how much monetary value you'd get out of CompTIA exams, so teaching yourself A+ and Net+ but not necessarily passing the exams (and maybe skipping a few of the not so useful parts of the certs) could be an interesting compromise. Perhaps get a CCENT and a Microsoft cert after that?

Deus Ex Machina · September 2016

Do you think just reading up on A+ and N+ would be good enough as prep for the Sec+, without actually taking those? I feel like that is the one I would actually get some mileage out of.

volfkhat · September 2016

Deus Ex Machina wrote: »

I have no idea what I want to do in terms of my career in IT as I have zero exposure in anything beyond the most rudimentary knowledge you would expect from someone who plays games on his computer all the time and fixes laptops at work.

I have applied for several IT rotational internships that I hope will help me with this, but I have my concerns that none of them are going to pan out because of the aforementioned lack of technical skills.

I COULD switch over to a Networking... but I am not sure if that would really be a smart move seeing as I don't even know if I would like networking.

I am also afraid of studying for something like A+ now because I don't know whether I would be better off trying to learn a little bit of a programming language.

Do you think just reading up on A+ and N+ would be good enough as prep for the Sec+, without actually taking those? I feel like that is the one I would actually get some mileage out of.

Dude... how old are you?
47?
You sound like someone who's Expiration is set for Next Tuesday :]

Take a step back and Breathe.

1) You say that you have Zero exposure and a general LACK of technical skills.
Okay, got it.
But then you say that you fix laptops at work.
So... please elaborate on that.
What is you job at work? And What do you mean by "fix" laptops?
:]

2) So... you think that (after 2 years in school) you don't know anything. (understood)

But My question: what are they teaching in the courses that you've taken in school so far?
Basket-weaving? Calculus III? Roman History?

I asked in an earlier post. Let us know; or provide a link to the school's curriculum

3)
You think that you might do networking... but you don't know if you like it.
You think you might do A+.... but you think it might Not be worthwhile.
You think you might want to program..... but (let me guess) you dont know what language to study.

Duex, Easy Solution:
You are already in school; so Go ENROLL in a networking class (it should count as an elective)! find out if you like it.
Then, in the winter semester, go Enroll in another elective (programming, Hardware, Database, Security, etc).
Just DO something.
The point of college (used to be) to Figure out your interests.
Besides, Life is a Marathon; Not a Sprint.
STop trying to pinpoint your destination... it probably won't happen!

4) Do i think the A+ and Net+ will help you pass the Sec+?
WHo knows.... but CompTIA recommends that you do so. They say that the material builds onto itself.

Maybe yo should find out for yourself.
If you dont want to take an extra class in school, then go check out Professor Messer.
(self-study the course on your own).

Personally, i would go out and get a throwaway Dell off of ebay ($50, etc). Learn how to format a hard drive. Install windows. Install drivers. Learn what an ip address is and How it is used. (This would be the A+ curriculum, btw)
If the subject matter bores you to tears... then pick another subject (database, programming, operating systems, etc)

You are sounding like ALL Learning ENDS after you graduate. But it doesn't.
ScaredyTests is right: You never stop Learning in Life.

You are so scared that you wasted the past 2 years of your life.
Big Deal. I wasted 4 years. lol (but my degree still allows me to follow my interests now)

**********
Now that i've got that out the way..... you need some self-reflection.

Databasehead already nailed it:

While your efforts to become a project manager are noble, you have to ask yourself the questions, what projects do you want to manage? IT, civil projects, Shuttle trips to Mars? It's more than "managing projects"......

1) Do you even LIKE computers? BE Honest. If so, Why/which parts? If Not, what DO you like?

2) You said that you had a "PASSION for Project Managment". Okay, Great.

But what does that mean? You have a passion for managing what exactly? I.T?
But WHy not manage a crew at McDonalds? or Hooters? Or a Factory line? Or a Library? Or a Hospital? Or Public Transportation? or a ZOO? or Amusement Park?

At this point, i don't even know what a degree in MIS even means.
(i assumed it meant I.T.... but what do i know!)

Update:
So, on a reread, My post didn't seem particularly helpful. lol
So i would like to add this bit from Iris the Angel:

Iristheangel wrote: »

- Generalize early, specialize later. Being a jack of all trades, master of none is great starting out because you'll learn the foundations of multiple technologies and even if you specialize later, it's good to have those foundations.

I DEFINITELY agree with her on this.
read more --> http://www.techexams.net/forums/jobs-degrees/119817-career-job-advice-observations.html

MeanDrunkR2D2 · September 2016

volfkhat wrote: »

MeanDrunk may have given good advice....

but i gotta disagree.
lol

If the OP doesn't know much about the INSIDE of a computer... then the A+ curriculum is definitely worthwhile.
If the OP doesn't know a default-gateway from a Cat-5 from a 802.whatever.... then the Network+ curriculum is worthwhile.

I'm not saying he needs to Earn the certifications... but he should at least have a thorough understanding of the subject matter.
a SOLID knowledge-foundation is essential for Most things in life.

Oh man... i REALLY have to disagree with this.
If College isn't the place to learn THEORY.... then where is??

I think you just enjoy arguing with people to be honest. :P

Now, the reason why I say that about a DEGREE and not the CompTIA garbage certs is due to how low level they are. The certificates that you get for those are garbage for anyone with a relevant degree, which this person is going for. If you have a degree in another unrelated field, or no degree at all, then they are perfect for that entry level role. BUT, in this persons case that's not the truth. If s/he wants the low level knowledge and did not feel like they learned enough about the basics, it's fine to read over material to cover the exam, but don't actually take the exam.

Having the education with a degree is so much more than just "I know computers" . That is why most degrees incorporate other important aspects, such as math, English, and other core subjects as well which are much more than technical knowledge. You are learning how to communicate better as well. You don't learn that with a CompTIA exam. You learn much more than Theory in college.

Mishra · September 2016

Are you set on project management for IT projects only? PM roles span many industries and with how you spoke IT may not be your favorite PM pick. Just realize you can PM for a lot of different projects at many different levels.

I looked up entry level PM roles and found a few. Go look on the job boards to see what they require.

Have I wasted 2 years of my life?

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