Career Change :: PLEASE ADVISE! ALL PMP, MSCA, MCSE and CSSIP PLEASE HELP!!!!!!

Rookkiiee · November 2009

Hello ALL!

Here's my dilemma!

I have a B.Sc in finance and Information systems. Most of my post college work were more financial (not really technical). I currently work for a hospital as a Financial Operations Analyst.

Given the economy and my own future financial security im thinking of doing the following:

A - Get some technical training e.g MCSA and CompTia Security+ training and get my hands dirty (but i dnt want ot go into desktop support etc. (no disrespect to anyone))
I'm leaning towards the Security industry as it is hot right now and looks good for the future. As someone who is non-technical should i do the MCSA and Security+ OR go ahead to CSSIP ??? to help become a consultant or IT security analyst type work???

B - Stay in my current field, get the PMP or CAPM certification BUT the problem still is - NO TECHNICAL EXPERIENCE. is it valuable to me to get the PMP/CAPM without having the tech experience??

if i do htis, i will look for a PM type work but what r the chances without already having the degree.

I have about $6k to invest and i would like to invest it to make a career change for my future but i don't know which path to take. I would like my next career to be more technical etc.

Please note: After this CERT stage, i plan to get a master in Information systems.

I'm a social person, i have an interest in IT but I'm not sure what will be a better ROI.

ANY ADVISE IS MUCH APPRECIATED!!!

ULWiz · November 2009

With no technical experience your still going to start in a helpdesk or desktop support position. Unfortunately this is the case for at least 80% of the IT workforce. Of course this is just my own opinion but i am sure its pretty accurate.

Definately start self studying for the certification you are interested in. The faster the better actually since exams are going to retire in a few years for the 2003 MCSE track.

Also keep in mind that depending on your area you would be in the range of 12 to 25 a hour depending on certs and work experience. At least that is the range i get with my certs in the state of NJ.

Hope this helps a little

Bl8ckr0uter · November 2009

Rookkiiee wrote: »

Hello ALL!

Here's my dilemma!

I have a B.Sc in finance and Information systems. Most of my post college work were more financial (not really technical). I currently work for a hospital as a Financial Operations Analyst.

Given the economy and my own future financial security im thinking of doing the following:

A - Get some technical training e.g MCSA and CompTia Security+ training and get my hands dirty (but i dnt want ot go into desktop support etc. (no disrespect to anyone))
I'm leaning towards the Security industry as it is hot right now and looks good for the future. As someone who is non-technical should i do the MCSA and Security+ OR go ahead to CSSIP ??? to help become a consultant or IT security analyst type work???

B - Stay in my current field, get the PMP or CAPM certification BUT the problem still is - NO TECHNICAL EXPERIENCE. is it valuable to me to get the PMP/CAPM without having the tech experience??

if i do htis, i will look for a PM type work but what r the chances without already having the degree.

I have about $6k to invest and i would like to invest it to make a career change for my future but i don't know which path to take. I would like my next career to be more technical etc.

Please note: After this CERT stage, i plan to get a master in Information systems.

I'm a social person, i have an interest in IT but I'm not sure what will be a better ROI.

ANY ADVISE IS MUCH APPRECIATED!!!

Welcome to the forum. I think it depends on how old you are, because I think it will be very difficult to skip the helpdesk/desktop support role if you go option A. Personally if I were you I would try to go option B and get into some Project management and try to specialize in tech, that way you will be in a quasi tech job but you won't have to do much actual tech work.
PMP's are in high demand. We had a guy go from the NOC to being a project manager with just a PMP and a Degree. He makes over 100k now.

Now if you want to get down and dirty and go the MCSA to S+ to CISSP, just know that you will need some experience to get the CISSP (4-5 years) but you can become an Asc. until you get the experience. What area of IT are you interested in? MCSA is a Helpdesk/LEvel 2 helpdesk cert and does not qualify you to work on 100 member server domains tomorrow. Which isn't to say that they aren't good goals but they may disappoint you and I think that PMP will get you more phone calls. But if you are going to start off in the helpdesk and you are unsure of what you are going to do, try A+ and Network+. They aren't hard and you would be shock at how many people do not have basic knowledge.

Turgon · November 2009

Rookkiiee wrote: »

Hello ALL!

Here's my dilemma!

I have a B.Sc in finance and Information systems. Most of my post college work were more financial (not really technical). I currently work for a hospital as a Financial Operations Analyst.

Given the economy and my own future financial security im thinking of doing the following:

A - Get some technical training e.g MCSA and CompTia Security+ training and get my hands dirty (but i dnt want ot go into desktop support etc. (no disrespect to anyone))
I'm leaning towards the Security industry as it is hot right now and looks good for the future. As someone who is non-technical should i do the MCSA and Security+ OR go ahead to CSSIP ??? to help become a consultant or IT security analyst type work???

B - Stay in my current field, get the PMP or CAPM certification BUT the problem still is - NO TECHNICAL EXPERIENCE. is it valuable to me to get the PMP/CAPM without having the tech experience??

if i do htis, i will look for a PM type work but what r the chances without already having the degree.

I have about $6k to invest and i would like to invest it to make a career change for my future but i don't know which path to take. I would like my next career to be more technical etc.

Please note: After this CERT stage, i plan to get a master in Information systems.

I'm a social person, i have an interest in IT but I'm not sure what will be a better ROI.

ANY ADVISE IS MUCH APPRECIATED!!!

Very difficult to cert your way to the top Im afraid. By the time you do A+, N+, MCSA, CCNA and what have you a couple of years have elapsed and you are just ploughing ahead on a well trodden and well worn out path. The certs are useful but the important thing are your career choices and what you wind up doing. Again, certs can help you there but the rest is down to you. You don't want to be another 'Allentown' guy with the graduation hanging on the wall that didn't help you at all.

It sounds like you dont want to do the trench work and work your way up. That's great providing you can find an alternative. Companies like customer facing people, folks that present well, can handle things and run meetings. You have some financial experience, anyone who can hack it in the financial side of IT has a chance of going places. See if a financial institution or a solutions provider that deals with trading systems et al will give you a start. Try the pre-sales route if you can. There is nothing wrong with being a dyed in the wool tech but a few years down the line, while there will still be a need for uber technical people the days of writing your own ticket (if you go permanent) are over. So don't just chase technology.

Don't just chase what is hot either. Lots of people have been moving into security the last few years and the field is oversubscribed. It's competitive and you will need years of experience there. You will have to work very hard indeed to get on in that space.

You are looking at project/sales/pre-sales/design I think and to some extent technical. Aiming to be a support meister probably isn't for you and getting exposure in some of the areas I have mentioned will probably put you in a better place than a career in out and out support anyway where the squeeze is constantly on to get wages down and ship infrastructure out. Touchy feelly technical is the way ahead I think. There are thousands of geeks running networks or trying to get inside one and they are all on the radar of the TCO acolytes who want to save the company some money.

veritas_libertas · November 2009

Rookkiiee wrote: »

...training and get my hands dirty (but i dnt want ot go into desktop support etc. (no disrespect to anyone))

Going into IT is just like anything else. You start at the bottom. If you are not willing to do this then you will have trouble in the IT field.

I'm leaning towards the Security industry as it is hot right now and looks good for the future. As someone who is non-technical should i do the MCSA and Security+ OR go ahead to CSSIP ???

MCSA and Security+ are achievable without experience. CISSP requires 5 years of experience to achieve. Otherwise all you get is (ISC)2 Associate in CISSP which most employers probably no zero about.

dynamik · November 2009

If you change careers, you will more than likely have to start at the bottom and work your way back up. Don't change careers if you're not prepared to do that.

You need five years of security experience for the CISSP; you can drop a year off of that requirement with qualifying credentials.

PMP/CAPM are not IT certifications. You don't need an IT background to pursue those.

The "cert stage" never ends. You have to perpetually update your skills.

Security is hot and will probably always be hot (like Pash's mom). However, IT moves fast, and security moves even faster.

The previous two points culminate in this one. You have to love this stuff in order to be successful. If you are just in it for the money, you will more than likely not succeed and end up wasting a great deal of time and money. Every aspect of IT is constantly changing, and you have to keep up with that if you want to be successful. My salary would probably seem pretty good to you at first glance. However, if you factor in that I spend an average of four hours/day studying (more on the weekends), you might reevaluate that. I don't mind because I find what I'm working on to be interesting, so it's not technically "work" for me. If you're not the same way, it's going to be a chore, and you're not going to stick with it.

veritas_libertas · November 2009

dynamik wrote: »

The previous two points culminate in this one. You have to love this stuff in order to be successful. If you are just in it for the money, you will more than likely not succeed and end up wasting a great deal of time and money. Every aspect of IT is constantly changing, and you have to keep up with that if you want to be successful. My salary would probably seem pretty good to you at first glance. However, if you factor in that I spend an average of four hours/day studying (more on the weekends), you might reevaluate that. I don't mind because I find what I'm working on to be interesting, so it's not technically "work" for me. If you're not the same way, it's going to be a chore, and you're not going to stick with it.

That is the truth. My wife couldn't understand why I was willing to take a part time IT job that paid horribly just so I could get into this field (she wasn't mad at me, she just couldn't understand). A year later it has paid off well and I have a nice Desktop Support role. Do what you love, but don't come to IT for the money.

Rookkiiee · November 2009

THANKS FOR ALL YOUR RESPONSES AND ADVISE

I agree and understand with all what you have stated. It sounds to me like i need some soul searching.

I think what I'll do is pursue the the PMP/CAPM and seek a "semi" technical position and gain some experience to direct me to where i need to be.

For who asked, As for my age, i'm 28 yrs old and have an interest in SECURITY/IT AUDITS AND CONTROL

what are your opinions on people who are not "technical" trying to manage a technical project?

is that a joke?

veritas_libertas · November 2009

Rookkiiee wrote: »

I think what I'll do is pursue the the PMP/CAPM and seek a "semi" technical position and gain some experience to direct me to where i need to be.

For who asked, As for my age, i'm 28 yrs old and have an interest in SECURITY/IT AUDITS AND CONTROL

You do realize you need a minimum of 3 years experience in Project Management to earn the PMP? Three years because you have a Bachelor degree.

http://www.pmi.org/PDF/pdc_pmphandbook.pdf

what are your opinions on people who are not "technical" trying to manage a technical project?

is that a joke?

I have known few Project Managers / Managers with good hands-on IT skills. The ability to manage well doesn't necessarily equal knowing how to design a web site, network infrastructure, or server cluster.

Rookkiiee · November 2009

VERITAS, Good luck on the exam Nov 17th!!!

dynamik · November 2009

Rookkiiee wrote: »

what are your opinions on people who are not "technical" trying to manage a technical project?

Irritating

Why don't you leverage your background and find a middle-ground with something like risk assessment/management

veritas_libertas · November 2009

Rookkiiee wrote: »

VERITAS, Good luck on the exam Nov 17th!!!

Thanks

I am looking forward to getting it over and moving on to Cisco.

Rookkiiee, have you consider moving into Health Care IT? Normally this would be called Health Informatics. You probably have a good knowledge of this area. You could use the experience and contacts you have to move into that area. From there you could study and possibly move into security later on.

Turgon · November 2009

Rookkiiee wrote: »

THANKS FOR ALL YOUR RESPONSES AND ADVISE

I agree and understand with all what you have stated. It sounds to me like i need some soul searching.

I think what I'll do is pursue the the PMP/CAPM and seek a "semi" technical position and gain some experience to direct me to where i need to be.

For who asked, As for my age, i'm 28 yrs old and have an interest in SECURITY/IT AUDITS AND CONTROL

what are your opinions on people who are not "technical" trying to manage a technical project?

is that a joke?

hehehe...I have worked with lots of project managers who are non technical. They are essentially reporting into the business about timescales, progress, issues, risks and costs. They rely on the technical specialists for the details. Some technical background can be useful, then again a little knowledge can get in the way sometimes

This is why I think some type of trainee presales role might be good for you. You will get projects and have some technical specialists to call upon.

networker050184 · November 2009

Rookkiiee wrote: »

what are your opinions on people who are not "technical" trying to manage a technical project?

is that a joke?

Its not a joke as long as the project manager realizes they are not a technical expert and they listen and take input from the actual technical people. Like veritas_libertas said being a good manager and a good technical person do not always go hand in hand. I don't think any of our project managers are very technical, but some are great and some are not. It has a lot more to do with their time/people management skills than anything else.

Rookkiiee · November 2009

To dynamik,

can u elaborate on the leverage thing? how would one go about doing this? perhaps the CISA??

To Veritas, i mention PMP/CAPM. u r right i need experience. I'll probably opt for the CAPM first while i gain the experience needed for PMP...

R

Rookkiiee · November 2009

Veritas,

I eventually plan to attend Georgia State University for my M.S in IS. they do have health informatics program there.

I think that's a great suggestion. i'll look into that mosdef!!!

thanks sir!

Turgon · November 2009

Rookkiiee wrote: »

To dynamik,

can u elaborate on the leverage thing? how would one go about doing this? perhaps the CISA??

To Veritas, i mention PMP/CAPM. u r right i need experience. I'll probably opt for the CAPM first while i gain the experience needed for PMP...

R

Again, the certs are useful but dont get hung up on them. They all take time if done properly and they will come. Main thing at the moment I think is for you to think over who you are going to contact for a job and what your sales pitch is.

Rookkiiee · November 2009

Hi Turgon,

when you say Trainee/presale, r u a referring to technical sales position??

dynamik · November 2009

You might want to look at a masters in risk management and see how well that overlaps with your current knowledge/skills as well as where you want to go.

UnixGuy · November 2009

You have financial background...and you like IT/SECURITY/AUDIT

Why don't you consider CISA/CISM ? or better, how about trying to find a career in financial auditing that has some IT work to be done ? or better, a financial auditing position where you can move up to management ?

Speaking of managers without technical background, yes I met plenty, and they usually surround themselves with the right technical gurus. They usually do lot of mistakes specially at the beginning...but as time pass most of them survive...specially with knowing the right people and having the right connections.

Turgon · November 2009

Rookkiiee wrote: »

Hi Turgon,

when you say Trainee/presale, r u a referring to technical sales position??

Yes something like that. You might like it and could go off in different directions. Any idiot can make money when times are good. Times are less good, so if you can make a difference give it a whirl. Remember nothing happens until something gets sold. Many resellers now are under lots of pressure to get business in. You can have the best technical people going backoffice but without a good sales force you are really struggling. In technical sales you get a bit of both.

NetworkingStudent · November 2009

I ‘am in the process of changing careers as well, and let me tell you that it’s not an easy thing to do. I want to break into the IT field after I’m finished with school, and I know I will have to take or accept a desktop or call center role. Currently, I work in the printing business, it pays the bills. If you want to skip the call center or desktop support role, you could aim for the position of a computer programmer, or something along those lines. Computer programmers on average start at a higher pay scale than networking, or desk support people do.
Quote “Hello ALL!

Here's my dilemma!

I have a B.Sc in finance and Information systems. Most of my post college work were more financial (not really technical). I currently work for a hospital as a Financial Operations Analyst.” End Quote
Answer: I would see what will and won’t transfer to the school you are attending, or planning to attend. Most likely your general eds will transfer, and you only have to take technical courses. Then again I could be 100% wrong.

Quote” Get some technical training e.g MCSA and CompTia Security+ training and get my hands dirty (but i dnt want ot go into desktop support etc. (no disrespect to anyone))
I'm leaning towards the Security industry as it is hot right now and looks good for the future. As someone who is non-technical should i do the MCSA and Security+ OR go ahead to CSSIP ??? to help become a consultant or IT security analyst type work???” End Quote
Answer: As far as I know you can become a consultant after you gain some experience, and I would say 5-10 years of experience, but no one will just hire someone, without some sort of experience. Consulting is a role that you grow into or develop, not something that just happens over night. Also, you need to get your hands dirty, no matter what certification you’re preparing for, because if you don’t learn anything or do the labs, then in my opinion that certification is worth less!! Not to mention that employers will ask you technical questions relating to your certification, and/or your experience.
I would suggest this cert path A+, Network+, and http://www.microsoft.com/learning/en/us/certification/mcdst.aspx
Also, I would think about getting your technical college requirements out of the way , and maybe getting your masters degree. To the best of my knowledge the IT field doesn’t look so much at the degree you have, but the level of that degree instead.
Have you thought about IT Health Care Mangement as a career?
The Healthcare Information and Management Systems Society (HIMSS) is the healthcare industry’s membership organization exclusively focused on providing global leadership for the optimal use of healthcare information technology (IT) and management systems for the betterment of healthcare. more >
HIMSS (Healthcare Information and Management Systems Society)
Also, I would try to find a way to network with someone at your work, maybe you could mentor someone in the IT department(for a day) at you work, or go to lunch with them and ask them what their jobs is like, their day...ect That’s my opinion…………
I hope this helps

Rookkiiee · November 2009

NetworkingStudent,

Thanks for the response! i wish you all the best as well in your career change.

I'll look into the HIMSS things. great suggestion

tpatt100 · November 2009

How can you secure something which you have no experience in? How can you audit an IT system if you don't even know how to get to let alone use the Microsoft Management Console or even SSH to a Unix box?

I had to certify a 2008 Server box this morning before I would authorize it to join our classified network today. It required applying a local security policy and then running through 75 pages of audits to ensure settings were applied, registry settings were set and then my signature authorizing the box but also saying "I approve this box" so anything from that date and time to first install says the box is secure and configured to our standards but is also accountable to ME that it is secure. Something goes wrong and the box is compromised and it gets audited and discovered I missed a setting then it is my butt on the line.

I have been doing security, certifying and auditing for about 6 years now and the years of helpdesk, desktop support and LAN Admin allow me to fly through auditing and certifying because I know where everything is.

dynamik · November 2009

tpatt100 wrote: »

How can you secure something which you have no experience in? How can you audit an IT system if you don't even know how to get to let alone use the Microsoft Management Console or even SSH to a Unix box?

I had to certify a 2008 Server box this morning before I would authorize it to join our classified network today. It required applying a local security policy and then running through 75 pages of audits to ensure settings were applied, registry settings were set and then my signature authorizing the box but also saying "I approve this box" so anything from that date and time to first install says the box is secure and configured to our standards but is also accountable to ME that it is secure. Something goes wrong and the box is compromised and it gets audited and discovered I missed a setting then it is my butt on the line.

I have been doing security, certifying and auditing for about 6 years now and the years of helpdesk, desktop support and LAN Admin allow me to fly through auditing and certifying because I know where everything is.

I agree with the point you're making 100%.

Of topic though, isn't there a way you can automate some of that or at least aggregate all that data?

tpatt100 · November 2009

dynamik wrote: »

I agree with the point you're making 100%.

Of topic though, isn't there a way you can automate some of that or at least aggregate all that data?

Depends on the certifying standard you use. Applying settings most of them are automatic like group policy settings, if the box joins the domain it will get most of the settings.

But for my current and last job a lot of the audits are manual check audits. Since you are the authorized certifying security guy you can sign off on things the standard wants like:

1. You have checked to see if a paper copy of the security policy is available and a current copy.

2. You certify the box is located in a secure facility (which at my last job required me to check with the external site so I could sign off on the check box).

IAVA checks are verified with scanning tools to check for unix/windows vulnerabilities but that is a whole other section of the certification.

This link is where I used to get the stuff and the checklists:

http://iase.disa.mil/stigs/checklist/index.html

If you check some of them, just pick Outlook for example its 88 pages of checks. They give you tips but don't hold your hand to walk you through most of the stuff.

dynamik · November 2009

tpatt100 wrote: »

Depends on the certifying standard you use. Applying settings most of them are automatic like group policy settings, if the box joins the domain it will get most of the settings.

But for my current and last job a lot of the audits are manual check audits. Since you are the authorized certifying security guy you can sign off on things the standard wants like:

1. You have checked to see if a paper copy of the security policy is available and a current copy.

2. You certify the box is located in a secure facility (which at my last job required me to check with the external site so I could sign off on the check box).

IAVA checks are verified with scanning tools to check for unix/windows vulnerabilities but that is a whole other section of the certification.

This link is where I used to get the stuff and the checklists:

http://iase.disa.mil/stigs/checklist/index.html

If you check some of them, just pick Outlook for example its 88 pages of checks. They give you tips but don't hold your hand to walk you through most of the stuff.

Fantastic info, thanks!

Career Change :: PLEASE ADVISE! ALL PMP, MSCA, MCSE and CSSIP PLEASE HELP!!!!!!

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