positions v. titles v. responsibilties/duties

dangtran09 · December 2010

hi all,

1st time posting here. i stumbled upon this great site by accident (if there's such thing?

). i have no cert however trying to get s+ in the near future and possibly ccna or other certs soon after wards. my background has been mostly application dev and dba, with minor deskside/phone support. i am however changing career path and heading towards security(IT/cyber security in general). i have little exposure to server side admin. i have 3 questions:

a) since i have minor exp with server admin, it's a bit difficult to qualify for a network admin position. so what im looking for in the interim is a help desk/desktop position with a small firm and hopefully interact/assist with the sys admin. is this a good direction? any other suggestions?

b) what are the main roles and how do they fit in the organization for the following:

workstation:

1. help desk , tier 1-3
2. desktop, 1-3
3. it support

server:

1. sys admin
2. sys engineer
3. network admin
4. network engineer

c) what's the most respected cert for the following job roles:

1. for help desk/desktop support: HDI? mcdst? itil?
2. for server: server+? network+? mcse? anything else?

thanks for reading and appreciate any replies.

dangtran09 · December 2010

135 views and 4 days later..but yet no reply

MrAgent · December 2010

Sys admins and engineers pretty much do the same thing. At least where I work we do. Not only do I assign permissions, create and assign GPOs in AD and admin user accounts I also help design AD architecture DNS implementations etc. So we do it all here.

The network admins/engineers also do the same thing, but its all related to the networking side. Meaning they are responsible for all of the routing and switching of all of our networks here.

Depending on which side of the house you are looking to get into should dictate which certs you should get. The other thing to consider is if you decide to go the server side if you need to decide which OS. Pretty much *nix vs Windows. I do a little of both here but I am only working on Windows certs. I know enough about linux/vmware to compile a kernel and remove/add modules as needed.

TheSuperRuski · December 2010

dangtran09 wrote: »

hi all,

1st time posting here. i stumbled upon this great site by accident (if there's such thing? ). i have no cert however trying to get s+ in the near future and possibly ccna or other certs soon after wards. my background has been mostly application dev and dba, with minor deskside/phone support. i am however changing career path and heading towards security(IT/cyber security in general). i have little exposure to server side admin. i have 3 questions:

a) since i have minor exp with server admin, it's a bit difficult to qualify for a network admin position. so what im looking for in the interim is a help desk/desktop position with a small firm and hopefully interact/assist with the sys admin. is this a good direction? any other suggestions?

b) what are the main roles and how do they fit in the organization for the following:

workstation:

1. help desk , tier 1-3
2. desktop, 1-3
3. it support

server:

1. sys admin
2. sys engineer
3. network admin
4. network engineer

c) what's the most respected cert for the following job roles:

1. for help desk/desktop support: HDI? mcdst? itil?
2. for server: server+? network+? mcse? anything else?

thanks for reading and appreciate any replies.

I havent done any of the jobs you posted but i`ve read that a lot of system admins start out as help desk, and move up the ranks that way. As far as the best certs i think it depends on the direction you are going. If you are into Microsoft then get the windows 7 desktop support certification. I believe Apple has there own cert for this as well. For a server admin, MCITP

any variation you like) would be golden if you wanted to go that route. the windows 7 exam is also one that is included in the MCITP:EA track. But starting with server+ and buying a server to mess around with should give you some exposure.

I am also new to the field so can only offer noob advice. Someone here may be able to give you more details about what people in those job roles due because im sure its a little different at every organization.

P.S.
For entry level anything, i would start with A+(will help with desktop support and the like), Net+(will help with network technician positions) and then Security+(Will give you an understanding of the security world as it relates to IT). I probably should have broken that up into A, B, C

...anyway, the knowledge is there. Good luck out there.

ibcritn · December 2010

dangtran09 wrote: »

hi all,

1st time posting here. i stumbled upon this great site by accident (if there's such thing? ). i have no cert however trying to get s+ in the near future and possibly ccna or other certs soon after wards. my background has been mostly application dev and dba, with minor deskside/phone support. i am however changing career path and heading towards security(IT/cyber security in general). i have little exposure to server side admin. i have 3 questions:

a) since i have minor exp with server admin, it's a bit difficult to qualify for a network admin position. so what im looking for in the interim is a help desk/desktop position with a small firm and hopefully interact/assist with the sys admin. is this a good direction? any other suggestions?

b) what are the main roles and how do they fit in the organization for the following:

workstation:

1. help desk , tier 1-3
2. desktop, 1-3
3. it support

server:

1. sys admin
2. sys engineer
3. network admin
4. network engineer

c) what's the most respected cert for the following job roles:

1. for help desk/desktop support: HDI? mcdst? itil?
2. for server: server+? network+? mcse? anything else?

thanks for reading and appreciate any replies.

a. Minor experience will be hard to qualify for a Sys/Network Admin? Yes. You have a good idea get in with a place that will expose you to a lot. In the interview ask probing questions about how much exposure you might get....this is how I moved up.

b. The roles are going to be different from any place you go. I have seen Systems Engineer mean NOTHING technical....it all depends on the organizational structure. I would say get in with a place where you get server experience and work supporting servers (if possible)

c. 1. Help Desk Certs - Microsoft (MCTS), A+/Net+ seem to be good hits....I wouldn't get too many certs in this area as you likely wont need them.
2. For servers - I have never seen anyone care about (server+, or Network+) Typically they like to see MCSA/MCSE/MCITP, or several years experience.

As far as certifications go I would make goals about your career and how you want to progress (realistically) starting out in Help desk and moving through to Admin then to Security. All the while looking at certifications along the way....looking on Dice.com, Monster.com are great places to get an idea of what your ideal jobs require for certs/skills/experience standpoint.

If security is your goal I would suggest in the short term certainly looking into Security+ (along with many many labs with IDS/IPS, Vulnerability scanners, Protocol Analyzers, Exploit software etc) Great place for this is Insecure.Org - Nmap Free Security Scanner, Tools & Hacking resources Study this throughout your Help Desk > Admin experience it will help you to make the transition to security faster.

SteveLord · December 2010

It's not easy to gauge these accurately because every business will classify them differently.

bryan502 · December 2010

Hello.. Long time lurker in this forum, I just never posted anything.. heh

What are these "Help Desk" jobs?
Are those call center jobs where you help people in the phone?

Mike-Mike · December 2010

dangtran09 wrote: »

c) what's the most respected cert for the following job roles:

1. for help desk/desktop support: HDI? mcdst? itil?

thanks for reading and appreciate any replies.:)

I have a HDI cert and i have only seen it on one, maybe 2 job ads... and almost no one I have talked to has cared about it... I have seen the MCDST on several job ads in my area... I have ITIL and i have seen it on a lot of job ads, but they were normally for much higher level positions... most people I have talked with have also not cared at all about this cert...

A+ seems to be the standard on any job ad I see for entry level

N2IT · December 2010

Mike-Mike wrote: »

I have a HDI cert and i have only seen it on one, maybe 2 job ads... and almost no one I have talked to has cared about it... I have seen the MCDST on several job ads in my area... I have ITIL and i have seen it on a lot of job ads, but they were normally for much higher level positions... most people I have talked with have also not cared at all about this cert...

A+ seems to be the standard on any job ad I see for entry level

+1

If you are just starting off get A+ and get a job.

Ashenwelt · December 2010

First off network admin is not normally a networking position. A network administrator traditionally has complete network and systems work for a smaller network.

Here are some generalizations.

Network Technician / Systems Admin: work on one system or device at a time and do not normally have access to network wide systems or network management tools.

Systems Engineer / Network Technician II: basic systems managment. Work on a handful of devices or tasks at the same time.

Sr/lead systems engineer or network egineer: Work on large groups of items and manage or mentor lower skilled staff.

Architect: Design, manage staff and project. Take escalation from Sr and leads.

Hope that gives some general help.

Qord · December 2010

SteveLord wrote: »

It's not easy to gauge these accurately because every business will classify them differently.

This exactly. Something that will make a big difference in this is the size of the shop. Places with a big pool of employees tend to have stricter boundaries that divide who does what. A smaller place with less people winds up being kind of like a small business, where everyone does a little of everything, o titles there don't really describe the duties and responsibilities accurately.

Mike-Mike · December 2010

Mike-Mike wrote: »

I have a HDI cert and i have only seen it on one, maybe 2 job ads... and almost no one I have talked to has cared about it... I have seen the MCDST on several job ads in my area... I have ITIL and i have seen it on a lot of job ads, but they were normally for much higher level positions... most people I have talked with have also not cared at all about this cert...

A+ seems to be the standard on any job ad I see for entry level

i posted this in my interview thread, but it's relevant here too.... i had an interview for an Analyst position yesterday, and the only cert they specifically commented on was the HDI one... so if I get this job, then it was well worth the money paid for it

N2IT · December 2010

Mike-Mike wrote: »

i posted this in my interview thread, but it's relevant here too.... i had an interview for an Analyst position yesterday, and the only cert they specifically commented on was the HDI one... so if I get this job, then it was well worth the money paid for it

That is very interesting.

Spent all that money for nothing.

Just kidding.

Kasor · December 2010

I have a similar experience before. My pay title, my office title and job title are all different according the government system! However? I don't konw.

higherho · December 2010

Ashenwelt wrote: »

First off network admin is not normally a networking position. A network administrator traditionally has complete network and systems work for a smaller network.

Here are some generalizations.

Network Technician / Systems Admin: work on one system or device at a time and do not normally have access to network wide systems or network management tools.

Systems Engineer / Network Technician II: basic systems managment. Work on a handful of devices or tasks at the same time.

Sr/lead systems engineer or network egineer: Work on large groups of items and manage or mentor lower skilled staff.

Architect: Design, manage staff and project. Take escalation from Sr and leads.

Hope that gives some general help.

Generally speaking System Administrators work on more than one system (or generally take care of a few assets at a time).

positions v. titles v. responsibilties/duties

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