New Face / My Situation

Deadpan_Incredulous · July 2014

Hello, folks. First post here, just trying to get a feel of the place as I plead my case.

As an introduction (and just so there are no confusions later), I'm currently 30 years old, and I moved from Illinois to Arizona in 2012 (not my choice) after having spent too long in school. I eventually graduated from a for-profit trade school with a Bachelor's in Applied Science that I can't even use because I abandoned my lifelong prospects of getting into the game industry.

Anyway, last December I graduated from the Desktop Technician program at Western Career Institute, paid for by the Workforce Investment Act, and I've now 5 of 6 different tech certifications under my belt. I have A+, and the following MTA's: Networking, Server, Security, and OS. Network+ is on its way, I just need to find the time to study for the exam in between life getting in the way.

The only real question I have is where to go from here, and I suppose my intention is to use this thread to fish for suggestions. I've no prior experience in the tech field (aside from maybe CompUSA, but I was just the door guy), and very few leads I've seen are legitimately entry-level. Since I'm out of school, I can't take any internship positions, and I certainly can't apply to places that demand I know the ins and outs of SQL, Red Hat, UNIX, VoIP, and Active Directory (though I have basic knowledge of the latter two).

I currently have a LinkedIn, an account on Dice, and I receive daily job alerts from Wanted Analytics and Indeed, but most of those leads are plagued with all of the problems I listed above, and are clearly not representative of the whole of entry-level tech jobs out there. I know I don't HAVE to work for a tech company, because after all most organizations need an IT department. It should be noted that I've gotten a couple of interviews already, but they didn't pan out so well for various reasons. One of those places happened to be a charter school.

There are a number of small computer repair shops in my immediate area, but I'm kinda going for overkill here with how wide I cast my net. More suggestions are welcomed and kinda desperately needed! The rest of my life beckons!

For reference, this is the resume that recently snagged me 2 interviews, and the last cover letter I sent out. Just in case there's something anyone thinks needs improving.

Nemowolf · July 2014

Well, for starters welcome to TechIMO!

Now, lets cover some of your questions ...

"Arizona not by choice." Is there something that is keeping your in Arizona? It is not exactly a hot bed of activity in the IT industry so your choices are slim as to what types of companies are hiring there.

"Bachelors in Applied Science and 'Game' industry." Is this for-profit a legit school we may have heard of with an accredited program or something more like Heald that is now bankrupt and for sale? Are you speaking of the video game industry or gambling?

"Desktop Tech at WCI." Gratz! You have a foundational knowledge but no experience. You need to start working that knowledge and gain some skill so it doesn't get lost in your head and you forget everything. Atrophy is going to be your enemy. I highly recommend building a beefy rig and trying to keep a running AD environment with VM's so you can practice what you learned without fear of breaking anything important. Keep on the studies as Net+ can help get your foot in the door depending on where and what you want.

"Where to go …" This is the obvious question, anywhere is the obvious answer. We can't help you there. My best advice would be to check out GoDaddy, i know they have offices in Phoenix, and any other tech company you can think of. You need to get experience to start backing up your education so a job anywhere doing anything at this point is the goal. It wouldn't hurt to check out those Mom and Pop repair shops just to start getting connections and possible quick gigs. Call Robert Half and try to find a decent recruiter there as well.

Now to the difficult questions. You need to really think about what you want out of a career in IT. Your lack of experience in the industry and in general will not help you answer this, so expect it to take some time. You NEED to get your feet wet, take in everything you can and objectively analyze each contract, job sit, gig, etc you go on for each thing you do or do not like about the job. For instance, if you happen to find work with a small repair shop, what do you like and not like about the job? Do you find the mentorship of the folks above you helps you focus and reassures you that you can make mistakes and they will guide you to the correct answer? Do you find that their constant watching over your work is getting to you. Do not tell yourself that you hate your job because of one person or one assignment though. Keep us updated on your progress by reply to this thread.

abyssinica · July 2014

I just wondered why you did so many of the "easier" certs, that people normally in high school or as part of college. (MTAs and A+, N+ etc)

I think you need to pass harder certs like MCSAs or MCSDs. You see, if you do all the easy ones at age 30, it's going to be hard for you I'm sure. Because a lot of people your age have MCSEs or their CISSP etc, you don't even get to compete against these people.

So if I were you I'd pick something harder and just do it.

Deadpan_Incredulous · July 2014

Nemowolf wrote: »

"Arizona not by choice." Is there something that is keeping you in Arizona? It is not exactly a hot bed of activity in the IT industry so your choices are slim as to what types of companies are hiring there.

Not having a car, for one. I sold it before the move because it was decided that it couldn't make the long trek from Illinois.

Nemowolf wrote: »

"Bachelors in Applied Science and 'Game' industry." Is this for-profit a legit school we may have heard of with an accredited program or something more like Heald that is now bankrupt and for sale? Are you speaking of the video game industry or gambling?

I believe this will answer your question: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRWvfMLl4ho

Let the mockery commence.

In my defense, I only saw it about a year in, but yeah, I should have seen the writing on the wall. I stuck it out because I left NIU to go there when I should have just stayed and switched my major.

Nemowolf wrote: »

You need to start working that knowledge and gain some skill so it doesn't get lost in your head and you forget everything. Atrophy is going to be your enemy.

Well, then let's hope someone hires me soon!

Nemowolf wrote: »

I highly recommend building a beefy rig and trying to keep a running AD environment with VM's so you can practice what you learned without fear of breaking anything important. Keep on the studies as Net+ can help get your foot in the door depending on where and what you want.

So, considering that I'm unemployed... where exactly am I going to get the money for this new rig? I spent $1200 in 2011 on a first gen i7 build (because the Sandy Bridge boards didn't look very promising at the time), and that was from my last job as a door guy at CompUSA. After the discount. I'm already $70 grand in debt from you-know-where, so, yeah, kinda limited with that.

Nemowolf wrote: »

"Where to go …" This is the obvious question, anywhere is the obvious answer. We can't help you there. My best advice would be to check out GoDaddy, i know they have offices in Phoenix, and any other tech company you can think of. You need to get experience to start backing up your education so a job anywhere doing anything at this point is the goal. It wouldn't hurt to check out those Mom and Pop repair shops just to start getting connections and possible quick gigs. Call Robert Half and try to find a decent recruiter there as well.

I'm going into Robert Half tomorrow at 11, but I suppose I mainly was fishing for suggestions I hadn't even thought of yet. Last time I checked GoDaddy, they didn't really have anything that fit with my education.

Nemowolf wrote: »

Now to the difficult questions. You need to really think about what you want out of a career in IT. Your lack of experience in the industry and in general will not help you answer this, so expect it to take some time. You NEED to get your feet wet, take in everything you can and objectively analyze each contract, job sit, gig, etc you go on for each thing you do or do not like about the job. For instance, if you happen to find work with a small repair shop, what do you like and not like about the job? Do you find the mentorship of the folks above you helps you focus and reassures you that you can make mistakes and they will guide you to the correct answer? Do you find that their constant watching over your work is getting to you. Do not tell yourself that you hate your job because of one person or one assignment though. Keep us updated on your progress by reply to this thread.

I already have a general idea of where I want to start, which was where my program at WCI was inevitably leading me. That would be a desktop support/field technician.

abyssinica wrote: »

I just wondered why you did so many of the "easier" certs, that people normally in high school or as part of college. (MTAs and A+, N+ etc)

I think you need to pass harder certs like MCSAs or MCSDs. You see, if you do all the easy ones at age 30, it's going to be hard for you I'm sure. Because a lot of people your age have MCSEs or their CISSP etc, you don't even get to compete against these people.

Well, gee if I'd only known that my lifelong dream of making video games was unfeasible until after 6 years of college, I'd have maybe jumped on those, but that's not exactly something I can do a whole lot about right now. I only took what was available to me at the time for the program (or at least what a $4,000 grant would cover). I took it to split the difference between desktop computers and networking so I could do both if needed, or interchangeably. If what you say about my age is true, then the same could be said about everyone who attended my classes.

WCI does, however, offer three MCSA courses and exams, namely 410, 411, and 412, but nothing beyond that. Just out of curiosity, how much do those exams go into SQL? I've seen many positions that say they require at least a basic knowledge of it. I've also hardly ever touched Windows 8. How hard is it to learn the ins and outs compared to 7 (which was covered in A+)?

My head is spinning faster than my ability to reverse its rotational course.

abyssinica · July 2014

Deadpan_Incredulous wrote: »

Well, gee if I'd only known that my lifelong dream of making video games was unfeasible until after 6 years of college, I'd have maybe jumped on those, but that's not exactly something I can do a whole lot about right now. I only took what was available to me at the time for the program (or at least what a $4,000 grant would cover). I took it to split the difference between desktop computers and networking so I could do both if needed, or interchangeably. If what you say about my age is true, then the same could be said about everyone who attended my classes.

WCI does, however, offer three MCSA courses and exams, namely 410, 411, and 412, but nothing beyond that. Just out of curiosity, how much do those exams go into SQL? I've seen many positions that say they require at least a basic knowledge of it. I've also hardly ever touched Windows 8. How hard is it to learn the ins and outs compared to 7 (which was covered in A+)?

My head is spinning faster than my ability to reverse its rotational course.

If you're going to compare yourself to those people who were in your class, how will you get anywhere? So there are many people in the world who don't do their best, do you want to be one of those people? There are also people who are making sure to reach a higher standard, how about being one of those instead of comparing yourself to others your age, who did little to nothing?

I think you're not going to get far if you don't do your own research. If you don't know the structure of the Microsoft certs then you can't do them. You have to go to Microsoft's websites and read. Use google. Whatever it takes to gather information about the different certs out there. Instead of asking me "how much those exams go into SQL". Some of them are about SQL, others aren't. You need to do some reading!

philz1982 · July 2014

Self study, work on the side check out study guides at library. Join a meetup group to learn, take the bus. If your unemployed then use your time, public transit, and the library.

If you want it bad enough.......

Also,

GNS3, Virtualbox, Ubuntu Linux OS... Free versions of Oracle SQL, MS SQL, Trial version of SQL and SERVER Enterprise for 90 days. Tons of free stuff. Call local companies (that you meet at the meetup groups). Use your personality to convince people to give you old Switches, Routers, PC's. Then teach yourself.

When you interview turn your struggles into a win.

You could say "Look I was 70k in debt, instead of crying about it. I networked through local groups, got my hands on some equipment. I rode the bus to the library and taught myself XYZ, skill. If you hire me I will bust my ass. How many other people do you meet Mr. Recruiter, who are living and breathing their commitment, who are passionate about technology. I may not be where I want to be right now, but you can be damn well assured (proven by my past efforts) that I will be where I need to be in the future."

Tell that story with honesty and people might just give you a chance.

Nemowolf · July 2014

Deadpan_Incredulous wrote: »

I believe this will answer your question: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRWvfMLl4ho

Let the mockery commence.

No mockery coming from me. Honorable profession if you ask my BUT again your in the wrong place for the job.

In all seriousness. Do you want to become a video game tester or work in IT?

Deadpan_Incredulous · July 2014

Nemowolf wrote: »

No mockery coming from me. Honorable profession if you ask my BUT again your in the wrong place for the job.

In all seriousness. Do you want to become a video game tester or work in IT?

I do apologize if I didn't make it clear enough that I officially switched fields last year. It's probably obscured somewhere in that wall of text. Although, if I went to college for IT, I wouldn't have even posted this topic, because I'd have very likely gotten work long before now.

abyssinica wrote: »

If you're going to compare yourself to those people who were in your class, how will you get anywhere? So there are many people in the world who don't do their best, do you want to be one of those people? There are also people who are making sure to reach a higher standard, how about being one of those instead of comparing yourself to others your age, who did little to nothing?

I think you're not going to get far if you don't do your own research. If you don't know the structure of the Microsoft certs then you can't do them. You have to go to Microsoft's websites and read. Use google. Whatever it takes to gather information about the different certs out there. Instead of asking me "how much those exams go into SQL". Some of them are about SQL, others aren't. You need to do some reading!

Well, I'll tell ya one thing, you sure know how to cheer a guy up.

So, I ask one quick question for fun on the chance you or anyone else may have known off the top of their heads, and suddenly that means I'm neither willing nor able to do any research? You'll have to explain to me how that's called for, let alone on what you base such a sweeping accusation. You seem rather driven on making me look bad for whatever reason. Maybe we should talk about that. I didn't join this site to get a face full of rudeness, nor to be told as insensitively as possible that I spent 4 months and $4 grand learning kid stuff. That's not something you do to a guy down on his luck with about 9 utterly wasted years behind him. I get being honest, but you've been jumping down my throat since I got here. That's just bad form.

On that note, not everyone can jump right into MCSA coursework after 7 years of... I dunno, baking. It can be rough switching fields, and you have to start somewhere. While I'm at it, isn't it also a bit presumptuous on your part to make an assessment like that about the prospects of my classmates?

...

All right, before I dig myself any deeper, let me just say up front that I'm not really looking to score anything super huge. That's not my goal right now, but I certainly wouldn't be against it if it were to happen eventually. For the time being, I'm just trying to contain the damage caused by my three year work history gap, because that seems to be what's hurting me the most. Explaining it is not fun. How many employers do you think will believe that I've spent that entire time diligently looking for work? Why should they? I'd be wondering that same thing if I were in their position, because that's something that can't really be quantified. For all they know I was sitting like a bump on a log scarfing cheetos and playing video games the whole time. Never mind the fact that I had to quit my last job a year before I moved out here. So, yeah, I'm working on that. For now I'm an independent "IT Consultant" working at home. Officially, anyway. It doesn't pay much, but it keeps a roof over my head. Air conditioning is also nice.

For further clarity, those classes I took were part of a package, and in the short run at the very least I was largely looking to score a small time gig (compared to a larger corporate firm, anyway) either fixing computers or working with a SOHO network, because I figured at the time that I was already rather proficient in working with computers, I might as well try to make a living from it.

philz1982 wrote: »

Self study, work on the side check out study guides at library. Join a meetup group to learn, take the bus. If your unemployed then use your time, public transit, and the library.

If you want it bad enough.......

Also,

GNS3, Virtualbox, Ubuntu Linux OS... Free versions of Oracle SQL, MS SQL, Trial version of SQL and SERVER Enterprise for 90 days. Tons of free stuff. Call local companies (that you meet at the meetup groups). Use your personality to convince people to give you old Switches, Routers, PC's. Then teach yourself.

When you interview turn your struggles into a win.

You could say "Look I was 70k in debt, instead of crying about it. I networked through local groups, got my hands on some equipment. I rode the bus to the library and taught myself XYZ, skill. If you hire me I will bust my ass. How many other people do you meet Mr. Recruiter, who are living and breathing their commitment, who are passionate about technology. I may not be where I want to be right now, but you can be damn well assured (proven by my past efforts) that I will be where I need to be in the future."

Tell that story with honesty and people might just give you a chance.

Good angle. Like I said earlier, though, I need at least some kind of work before I delve further in. The longer I wait, the worse it looks on me. I do have VirtualBox, though. Now that I think about it, it's entirely possible that I might be able to fashion my current rig into a VM host, but I'm definitely going to need more RAM. I'm also reasonably sure that my Core i7 950 Bloomfield hasn't lost its ability to handle virtualization over the years I've used it. See, I was under the impression that it was suggested that I build a second rig, so I guess some things were lost in translation there. Though it might be nice to have an additional server rig that I could use to connect all of the house computers to a domain, and maybe configure it for file sharing and/or monitoring. The power needs, though...

The only snag I'm looking at right now is where to find these groups you mentioned. I honestly wouldn't know the first place to look (or maybe I have some general idea, and I just need it confirmed). Also, public transit is iffy at best, because it's practically nonexistent out here, so I guess I'll just have to continue borrowing my brother's car.

philz1982 · July 2014

Deadpan_Incredulous wrote: »

I do apologize if I didn't make it clear enough that I officially switched fields last year. It's probably obscured somewhere in that wall of text. Although, if I went to college for IT, I wouldn't have even posted this topic, because I'd have very likely gotten work long before now.

Well, I'll tell ya one thing, you sure know how to cheer a guy up.

So, I ask one quick question for fun on the chance you or anyone else may have known off the top of their heads, and suddenly that means I'm neither willing nor able to do any research? You'll have to explain to me how that's called for, let alone on what you base such a sweeping accusation. You seem rather driven on making me look bad for whatever reason. Maybe we should talk about that. I didn't join this site to get a face full of rudeness, nor to be told as insensitively as possible that I spent 4 months and $4 grand learning kid stuff. That's not something you do to a guy down on his luck with about 9 utterly wasted years behind him. I get being honest, but you've been jumping down my throat since I got here. That's just bad form.

On that note, not everyone can jump right into MCSA coursework after 7 years of... I dunno, baking. It can be rough switching fields, and you have to start somewhere. While I'm at it, isn't it also a bit presumptuous on your part to make an assessment like that about the prospects of my classmates?

...

All right, before I dig myself any deeper, let me just say up front that I'm not really looking to score anything super huge. That's not my goal right now, but I certainly wouldn't be against it if it were to happen eventually. For the time being, I'm just trying to contain the damage caused by my three year work history gap, because that seems to be what's hurting me the most. Explaining it is not fun. How many employers do you think will believe that I've spent that entire time diligently looking for work? Why should they? I'd be wondering that same thing if I were in their position, because that's something that can't really be quantified. For all they know I was sitting like a bump on a log scarfing cheetos and playing video games the whole time. Never mind the fact that I had to quit my last job a year before I moved out here. So, yeah, I'm working on that. For now I'm an independent "IT Consultant" working at home. Officially, anyway. It doesn't pay much, but it keeps a roof over my head. Air conditioning is also nice.

For further clarity, those classes I took were part of a package, and in the short run at the very least I was largely looking to score a small time gig (compared to a larger corporate firm, anyway) either fixing computers or working with a SOHO network, because I figured at the time that I was already rather proficient in working with computers, I might as well try to make a living from it.

Good angle. Like I said earlier, though, I need at least some kind of work before I delve further in. The longer I wait, the worse it looks on me. I do have VirtualBox, though. Now that I think about it, it's entirely possible that I might be able to fashion my current rig into a VM host, but I'm definitely going to need more RAM. I'm also reasonably sure that my Core i7 950 Bloomfield hasn't lost its ability to handle virtualization over the years I've used it. See, I was under the impression that it was suggested that I build a second rig, so I guess some things were lost in translation there. Though it might be nice to have an additional server rig that I could use to connect all of the house computers to a domain, and maybe configure it for file sharing and/or monitoring. The power needs, though...

The only snag I'm looking at right now is where to find these groups you mentioned. I honestly wouldn't know the first place to look (or maybe I have some general idea, and I just need it confirmed). Also, public transit is iffy at best, because it's practically nonexistent out here, so I guess I'll just have to continue borrowing my brother's car.

Eliminate excuses, there are a ton in your reply. Meetup.com, is one of the top groups. Research volunteer groups and do coding, networking, database work for free and get a letter of recommendation from the groups CIO and use his contacts to get yourself a job.

philz1982 · July 2014

philz1982 wrote: »

Eliminate excuses, there are a ton in your reply. Meetup.com, is one of the top groups. Research volunteer groups and do coding, networking, database work for free and get a letter of recommendation from the groups CIO and use his contacts to get yourself a job.

You can also go to a variety of the contractor sites and do grind work for 10/hr. You know the sites, where you can hire a kid in Ukraine to right code or create your DB. It's not glorious but it's cash, and the barrier to entry is low if you know how to market yourself. You have good writing skills, something a lot of people lack, which you can use to your benefit.

swellbow · July 2014

Resume:

- Trim off the customer service jobs. Hiring managers don't care about positions that don't include skills they need you to have.

- Similarly, leave out the soft skills. Anyone can say that they're friendly/a good communicator. Those characteristics will come out in the course of a job interview, and don't need to be included here. Replace these with the IT-specific skills you have, be it specific types of hardware, software, etc. Definitely include the little you do know about Active Directory/VoIP there, as both are expected of most help-desk-y positions.

- Consider tailoring a separate resume for every position you apply for.

Cover letter:

- Again, say what you need to say in less words. Keeping your statements short and direct implies confidence. I'll make a few suggestions:

- Everything from "Recently.." to "certifications" = "I am a graduate of the Desktop Technician Program at Western Career institute and carry CompTIA A+ and Microsoft MTA certifications. This includes experience working with various Windows operating systems and Microsoft Office suites."

"Currently I work on my own time helping troubleshoot computer related issues for friends and family" = "I am also self-employed, resolving hardware and software issues for others on a casual basis."

- "I should also note that I..." = "In addition, I have experience working within a team and can lift 20 pounds without issue".

Deadpan_Incredulous · July 2014

swellbow wrote: »

Resume:

- Trim off the customer service jobs. Hiring managers don't care about positions that don't include skills they need you to have.

- Similarly, leave out the soft skills. Anyone can say that they're friendly/a good communicator. Those characteristics will come out in the course of a job interview, and don't need to be included here. Replace these with the IT-specific skills you have, be it specific types of hardware, software, etc. Definitely include the little you do know about Active Directory/VoIP there, as both are expected of most help-desk-y positions.

- Consider tailoring a separate resume for every position you apply for.

Cover letter:

- Again, say what you need to say in less words. Keeping your statements short and direct implies confidence. I'll make a few suggestions:

- Everything from "Recently.." to "certifications" = "I am a graduate of the Desktop Technician Program at Western Career institute and carry CompTIA A+ and Microsoft MTA certifications. This includes experience working with various Windows operating systems and Microsoft Office suites."

"Currently I work on my own time helping troubleshoot computer related issues for friends and family" = "I am also self-employed, resolving hardware and software issues for others on a casual basis."

- "I should also note that I..." = "In addition, I have experience working within a team and can lift 20 pounds without issue".

If it makes you feel any better, I'm 27, 50k in debt after 7 years of music school/general avoidance of the real world, and making some really good progress on that debt working a support gig after a year of studying A+/N+/S+, which are hardly wizard-level certs. You're not alone, and good things come quickly if you stay focused.

Yeah, a lot of that sounds better the way you worded it. For instance, they don't have to know who I've done the work for. I'll have to set aside some time today to work all of those in.

Just a thought, I understand where you're coming from about cutting the customer service jobs from my resume, but a lot of these entry level helpdesk jobs put a rather pointed focus on customer service. Demonstrating that I have a knack for that can only help my chances. Without listing them, my work history is nebulous, and the gaps are even larger, to put it lightly. So, for the time being, I really think I should keep them on there. At least until I rack up a passable amount of on-the-job tech experience. I have managed to snag a couple of interviews with this resume, so that shows me it's worth at least something in its current form. Let's see what it can do after the "upgrades."

philz1982 wrote: »

Eliminate excuses, there are a ton in your reply. Meetup.com, is one of the top groups. Research volunteer groups and do coding, networking, database work for free and get a letter of recommendation from the groups CIO and use his contacts to get yourself a job.

Excuses? I don't think admitting ignorance really qualifies as an "excuse" per se, and neither does describing short-term goals, current limitations, or what my initial plans were before I sought out the education. If I'm not sure where to start on something, I'm going to need someone to point me in the right direction, which is why I asked. If I came across as whiny in any way, though, I do apologize. I know not a lot of people want to hear that, nor saving face against someone who seems bent on discouraging me.

philz1982 wrote: »

You can also go to a variety of the contractor sites and do grind work for 10/hr. You know the sites, where you can hire a kid in Ukraine to right code or create your DB. It's not glorious but it's cash, and the barrier to entry is low if you know how to market yourself. You have good writing skills, something a lot of people lack, which you can use to your benefit.

Now we're really getting somewhere. Thank you very much for the complement on my writing, by the way. My 3 year work history gap has come up in a number of conversations with employers, so it's incumbent upon me to fix that as soon as possible before I become unemployable. I think either route you suggested here would work to that end, but so far I like the contractor site idea the best. I need some money coming in so I can move out of here and not be a burden anymore. Again, though, I'm a bit in the dark about where to start on this. Google just shows me results titled "websites for contractors." How might I find such things?

tprice5 · July 2014

Deadpan_Incredulous wrote: »

So, I ask one quick question for fun on the chance you or anyone else may have known off the top of their heads, and suddenly that means I'm neither willing nor able to do any research? You'll have to explain to me how that's called for, let alone on what you base such a sweeping accusation.

The basis is, you were asking an easily googleable question ...

Deadpan_Incredulous wrote: »

WCI does, however, offer three MCSA courses and exams, namely 410, 411, and 412, but nothing beyond that. Just out of curiosity, how much do those exams go into SQL?

Those exams relate to the MCSA: Server 2012
SQL has it's own exam series, MCSA: SQL Server 2012

Also see, letmegooglethatforyou.com ...

People are more willing to help someone who is willing to help themselves. You can show you are helping yourself by fully utilizing all the resources at your disposal. Check the Microsoft websites that I linked to for descriptions. Search the forums/web for those exams and read about them. Educate yourself. MTA exams are more geared towards education, and while everyone has to start somewhere, MCP level exams are the only Microsoft certifications worth mentioning in an interview/resume.
You made a poor decision, at least you have acknowledged it. Now, instead of long-winded forum posts and overly articulated replies, spin up a few VMs and get to studying. Start with the MCSA: Server 2012 and then go from there. Each of these tests cost $150 unless you still have a .edu email address then it is $86. This certification will serve you more than any of those MTAs and won't cost near as much. How the government values those exams at $4000 is beyond me. There are tons of free resources for learning to code. Search the forums!
Do I think you are going to listen to this advice or anyone else's? Not really. You seem more content on making conversation and talking for the sake of talking. I can only assume that this post is what you are considering your 'productive' effort for the day and will soon return to the couch to play CoD/Halo. Much like your relationship with the state of Arizona, you and other like you are a leach. You come to the forum, reject advice and contribute nothing to the community.
I hope I have successfully pissed you off enough to actually do something, at the very least irritated you enough to drop your k/d ratio. Get it together man. $90k is a big hole and you'd better start digging your way out. No amount of advice is going to do you any good unless you actually do something. Take action! No one is going to just hand it to you. I've applied for countless jobs I wasn't qualified for, never hurts to try.

tl;dr:
Our (my?) hostility stems from...
1. People who post threads for general advice that can't truly be answered.
2. People who reject and respond negatively to people attempting to help them.
3. People who use 50 words to convey an idea that could've been communicated in 5.
Get it together.

linuxabuser · July 2014

You're $70k in debt from obtaining a useless degree?

You need to fake your death and start fresh. At this rate, you'll be paying this off until you die. I wish I was joking. With the skills you have, you have zero chance if financially getting ahead. You made a bad choice in your college degree, and now you can a) run away from it (best idea) or b) spend the rest of your existence hating life because of it.

tprice5 · July 2014

linuxabuser wrote: »

You're $70k in debt from obtaining a useless degree?

You need to fake your death and start fresh. At this rate, you'll be paying this off until you die. I wish I was joking. With the skills you have, you have zero chance if financially getting ahead. You made a bad choice in your college degree, and now you can a) run away from it (best idea) or b) spend the rest of your existence hating life because of it.

Too far.
Don't listen to this guy. There is an awesome subreddit that offers support, advice and triumph stories at reddit.com/r/personalfinance. Go read some of what they have to say to get yourself motivated on overcoming debt. The good thing about IT is you can move up fast. I have only been in the industry for 4 1/2 years and I am over the 100K mark. You can do this to, but you are going to have to start taking some accountability for your present situation and really anchor down (go Vandy?) with your studying. Raise your expectation. Don't settle for a mom & pop IT shop. Shoot for industry leading, enterprise technologies and you'll never be short of things to learn. That is when it gets fun. When you have so many things you want to learn but there isn't enough time in the year to squeeze it all in. I hope you get to experience this... sooner, rather than later.

Cisc0kidd · July 2014

A lot of good advice in this thread along with some not so good. Take what is helpful and get to work, both figuratively and literally. Good luck man.

BerkshireHerd · July 2014

linuxabuser wrote: »

You're $70k in debt from obtaining a useless degree?

You need to fake your death and start fresh. At this rate, you'll be paying this off until you die. I wish I was joking. With the skills you have, you have zero chance if financially getting ahead. You made a bad choice in your college degree, and now you can a) run away from it (best idea) or b) spend the rest of your existence hating life because of it.

Lame. That is all.

linuxabuser · July 2014

BerkshireHerd wrote: »

Lame. That is all.

Eloquent.

Really though, this guy is 30 years old, 70k in debt, and no better off than a 20 year old starting in help desk. What do you want me to do, lie to him?

tkerber · July 2014

abyssinica wrote: »

I just wondered why you did so many of the "easier" certs, that people normally in high school or as part of college. (MTAs and A+, N+ etc)

I think you need to pass harder certs like MCSAs or MCSDs. You see, if you do all the easy ones at age 30, it's going to be hard for you I'm sure. Because a lot of people your age have MCSEs or their CISSP etc, you don't even get to compete against these people.

So if I were you I'd pick something harder and just do it.

abyssinica,

Every comment I've seen you make so far have been unhelpful and unnecessary... Lets also not take advice from someone who is a 'Wannabe'. I wouldn't have joined these forums if I wanted advice from Wannabes. Also lets see your sources to these claims you make. When you say a lot of people his age have MCSEs or CISSPs, what do you mean? Do you have credible statistics and sources to back this claim up?? By your logic someone older should be able to handle a higher level cert? Have you tried passing your CISSP or MCSA with no industry experience? Please tell me because if so I'd love to hear how.

Deadpan - My advice to you is try personal consulting. When I was in school and looking to get a tech job I started doing consulting on the side. I put adds on craigslist and made business cards to work on peoples computers, setup home networks, etc... I got some OK business, but most importantly I got some experience to put on my resume next to my certifications and education. Not long after this I got a Desktop Support position. I got hired not only because of some of my consulting experience, but because I had an A+ and the other candidates did not. No certifications are worthless.

Chitownjedi · July 2014

There appears to be some new blood on the forums, that can learn a thing or two about proper bedside manner.

BerkshireHerd · July 2014

linuxabuser wrote: »

Eloquent.

Really though, this guy is 30 years old, 70k in debt, and no better off than a 20 year old starting in help desk. What do you want me to do, lie to him?

Since when is 30 to old to start? I was 33 when I landed my first IT job, zero certs and yes I am 50k in debt to school as well...

BerkshireHerd · July 2014

Chitownjedi wrote: »

There appears to be some new blood on the forums, that can learn a thing or two about proper bedside manner.

Perhaps, but clearly that persons response is NOT the reason this forum is around...

linuxabuser · July 2014

BerkshireHerd wrote: »

Since when is 30 to old to start? I was 33 when I landed my first IT job, zero certs and yes I am 50k in debt to school as well...

I'm not here to harass anyone. OP came and posted his problems in a public forum. Some of you can continue the cute, but ultimately useless, circlejerk of niceness. Others are pushing for study and hard work, which isn't a bad thing, but it is not an immediate money-making strategy.

OP needs these things in order to continue life at something above the poverty line:

a car

a decent-paying job (at least 45k)

Failing that, a $13/hr job doing desktop support will not help him. It will only allow him to continue existing as a debt-serf for longer. If you don't see that, then you are either ignorant, or have too much money to know what it's like to have none. That job could have helped 5 years ago, but not now. He needs a solid, middle-of-the-road job making a decent wage.

Let's have some more numbers and less talking (I'm sure you've heard enough from me)
Job @ 45k/yr --- Take home $1179 (Retirement 7% of $45k salary - figure is high because he is starting late)
70k debt at a conservative 4% @ 20 years (so OP will be 50)-
Loan payment --- $425
70k debt at a normal 6% @ 20 years
Loan payment --- $500
Rent (phoenix 1br) --- $631
Food --- $200
Car --- $175 (say he has help w/ a down payment on a used car)
Gasoline --- $75
Car ins --- $50
Internet --- $40
Misc (dates,movies,gaming,whatever) --- $40
Health insurance through corporate employer --- $180

$1179x2 = 2358 / month

2358 - 425 - 631 - 200 - 175 -75 - 50 - 40 - 40 - 180 = $542 at the end of the month in the best case scenario. Say he is super responsible and makes double payments on his college loan every month so he is out of debt at 40 years old, that leaves OP with less than $100 a month of money.

Now do some of you understand why I said the things I said? This is absolutely serious and needs to be treated as such.

Chitownjedi · July 2014

linuxabuser wrote: »

I'm not here to harass anyone. OP came and posted his problems in a public forum. Some of you can continue the cute, but ultimately useless, circlejerk of niceness. Others are pushing for study and hard work, which isn't a bad thing, but it is not an immediate money-making strategy.

OP needs these things in order to continue life at something above the poverty line:

a car

a decent-paying job (at least 45k)

Failing that, a $13/hr job doing desktop support will not help him. It will only allow him to continue existing as a debt-serf for longer. If you don't see that, then you are either ignorant, or have too much money to know what it's like to have none. That job could have helped 5 years ago, but not now. He needs a solid, middle-of-the-road job making a decent wage.

Let's have some more numbers and less talking (I'm sure you've heard enough from me)
Job @ 45k/yr --- Take home $1179 (Retirement 7% of $45k salary - figure is high because he is starting late)
70k debt at a conservative 4% @ 20 years (so OP will be 50)-
Loan payment --- $425
70k debt at a normal 6% @ 20 years
Loan payment --- $500
Rent (phoenix 1br) --- $631
Food --- $200
Car --- $175 (say he has help w/ a down payment on a used car)
Gasoline --- $75
Car ins --- $50
Internet --- $40
Misc (dates,movies,gaming,whatever) --- $40
Health insurance through corporate employer --- $180

$1179x2 = 2358 / month

2358 - 425 - 631 - 200 - 175 -75 - 50 - 40 - 40 - 180 = $542 at the end of the month in the best case scenario. Say he is super responsible and makes double payments on his college loan every month so he is out of debt at 40 years old, that leaves OP with less than $100 a month of money.

Now do some of you understand why I said the things I said? This is absolutely serious and needs to be treated as such.

He can get an income based repayment adjustment to his student loan....Based on his income they will lower it so its not as "taxing" on his take home.. and continue to accumulate the skills, experience and things he need to allow himself to get a better job, then a better job, then a better job. If he's going to be paying for a long time regardless, that could help. He could even get a forbearance or a deferment based on a Hardship claim if he qualifies. It's not as cut and dry as you are making it.

Deadpan_Incredulous Maximize all your options so you can move forward and dig yourself out the hole.

Deadpan_Incredulous · July 2014

As a primer to this post, I would like to thank the following users for their civility, great advice, and putting up with my crap: tkerber, Nemowolf, philz1982, swellbow, Cisc0kidd,and Chitownjedi. It is all being carefully considered, processed, drafted, and scrutinized.

tprice5, your advice was also highly useful, but you could seriously tone down the overtly harsh condescension and character assassinations. A leech? Really? If I wanted to be talked to like that, I'd have joined the marines. Same for you, linuxabuser, but you already knew that.

And now...

ITEMIZED CLARIFICATION TIME!

1. Because someone was interested, $4 grand was the cost of the education program I went through at WCI, also the WIA grant payout. The MCSA/Cisco program costs more than that -- about $5 grand. That includes exam vouchers, hands-on classroom instruction, books, and materials.

2. $70k is the total when combined with Parent Plus loans. The loans on my end are actually closer to $42k, and both are being refinanced and repackaged with Wells Fargo, because Sallie Mae can just go (fill in the blank at your pleasure). Still nothing to celebrate, but not as bad.

3. The cost of living out here is actually rather low. $9.20 is a living wage for a one-adult household. I'm not terribly worried.

4. My situation is not as dire as some have interpreted (mostly my fault, I'm sure). It's not something I like to admit, but my folks are helping me pay off both loans, and it's not fair of me to ask them to continue doing that. They're in no danger of living in cardboard boxes, but I still want to take that burden off of them as soon as possible. Be real, though, do you honestly think I could afford to live on my own when I have no money coming in?

5. Just because I'm repelling character assassinations doesn't mean I'm rejecting legitimately good advice. I've previously acknowledged tons of it, if certain people could be bothered to notice, but sometimes the way advice is framed can negatively effect how it's received. At the same time, I know it can be a chore to pick out good bits from stupid drama, so there's that.

6. The unfounded presumption is rather strong here. I've been shotgunning resumes and cover letters every day, attending job fairs, and going to interviews, but I'm left a little overwhelmed here with all of my options. It's also 4th of July weekend. How much do you expect to change in three days when most of the people who matter aren't even at work? Besides that, before I can even plan out my next move, I have some appointments to attend that could invalidate all of this.

7. It was just one question about the MCSA. I know I could have looked it up beforehand (and I probably should have), but I asked here first just for fun (kinda like how it's done in person) because I value the input of those who are much further along than me. Clearly, for some, that value was misplaced.

The primary reason why I asked was because I did initially notice the number of tests in the MCSA category, all covering different areas, and WCI only offers courses on Windows Server 2012, not at all specifying whether they cover anything SQL-related. I was judging whether or not going back would be a worthwhile investment, because you can take individual courses. Some exams I've taken cover introductory material to other more specialized areas, so it's only fair to expect MCSA exams would do something similar.

All right, I think that for now I have a good amount of suggestions to formulate a plan of action if my current plan at Robert Half gets derailed. Since none of you know absolutely all the nitty-gritty of my sitty, I'll have to consult my offline peers to see which route is best for me based on what's available out here. Updates will be steady for those who are still interested, and any additional tips and clarifications are welcome. And please, take Chitownjedi's advice (you know who you are). I want to work with you, not against you, and certainly not both at the same time.

tprice5 · July 2014

Apologies, I was in a bad mood yesterday after reading about that cheerleader from UTexas who killed all those animals. Then I saw this video of this terribly racist woman and my outlook on humanity was pretty grim. Wrong place, wrong time, if you will.
I think I may be able to help you. PM me and we'll talk specifics, *spoiler alert*: it involves deploying to the middle-east. In the event that your account is too new and you do not have the ability to PM, Mods, please make the available.

abyssinica · July 2014

tkerber wrote: »

abyssinica,

Every comment I've seen you make so far have been unhelpful and unnecessary... Lets also not take advice from someone who is a 'Wannabe'. I wouldn't have joined these forums if I wanted advice from Wannabes. Also lets see your sources to these claims you make. When you say a lot of people his age have MCSEs or CISSPs, what do you mean? Do you have credible statistics and sources to back this claim up?? By your logic someone older should be able to handle a higher level cert? Have you tried passing your CISSP or MCSA with no industry experience? Please tell me because if so I'd love to hear how.

Deadpan - My advice to you is try personal consulting. When I was in school and looking to get a tech job I started doing consulting on the side. I put adds on craigslist and made business cards to work on peoples computers, setup home networks, etc... I got some OK business, but most importantly I got some experience to put on my resume next to my certifications and education. Not long after this I got a Desktop Support position. I got hired not only because of some of my consulting experience, but because I had an A+ and the other candidates did not. No certifications are worthless.

If you don't like what I say, ignore it. I'm not going to lie to people. Some people don't know the difference between "honest" and "unhelpful". You assume that because I say something you dislike, I'm not being helpful. I replied to the OP not you, so if you don't like the reply then just ignore me. It's also useless to ask me about any of my education. If I intended to list my certs or degrees or whatever here, I would have done that in the sidebar like most people.

New Face / My Situation

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