McAfee rescinded job offer

joneno

Hi guys,
This is more of a motivational rant against myself. I currently work as a security analyst in DC and I'm trying to move on to a higher or a more challenging position. I recently got my resume out and the calls started coming in. I received a call last week from McAfee about a consulting position because I have tons of experience with ePo, endpoint encryption and SIEM. After the interview the hiring manager and security engineer liked me and asked what I was looking for pay wise. I told them I wanted 80k. He was like -"fine, this position actually pays between 95-120k depending on experience". I was blown away; needless to say I agreed to take 95k. Fast forward to today, the security engineer called me saying he couldn't get HR to look beyond me not having a bachelors degree.

I tried explaining that I'll be done soon and I also intend pursuing a masters degree in information security. He felt he could bend the rules for me, but HR said not having that is a show stopper. He was kind enough to send me a second email asking when I'm I graduating and told me to keep in touch with him. For those of you that thinks certification answers all or degress are useless, there it is.

Dieg0M

Just move on to the next job offer. Plenty of jobs out there that don't require a degree.

macsmalls

Jeez, that sucks man. I've got the degree(s) just lacking the direct experience ...trying to make it to where you are!

Zorodzai

I know the feeling... had something along the same lines happen to me too. IT Manager (don't know the guy) from a job I sent my resume in for called me and basically said, based on my experience, I was the strongest candidate by far but, try all he might, he could not get me past the HR screen. His call was to basically tell me to get my Bachelors ASAP as my lack of it was blocking my progress

Important thing is you use this as motivation to get your degree done and dusted ASAP.

tpatt100

I know it sucks but at least you know the one thing that held you back was the one thing you do have control over which is better than lacking experience which is much harder to overcome.

networker050184

Dodged a company that doesn't value talent and obviously has a bunch of corporate red tape. Consider yourself lucky.

cyberguypr

Agree that although it totally sucks at least knowing exactly what happened gives you some level of closure. Unfortunately many see degrees as absolute deal breakers. Takeaway: the trifecta of experience + degree + certs is still king.

joneno

Thanks guys! It's nobody's fault but mine, I've been in denial all this while like most people on these forum. I'm working to complete the trifecta. I do have the CISSP, CISA, Security+ and hopefully CRISC and CISM. I just need to finish this damn degree. Gosh!

jdancer

Fortunately, there is a lot of legit accredited online degree programs. Wasn't true when I went to school during the dinosaur age (aka brick and mortar). There are some accredited schools which will take your certs for some college credit. More details at degreeforum.net

zxbane

What do you mean by the hopefully CRISC/CISM part, did you take them and just are awaiting endorsement or results?

exspiravit

Lame. Usually if you are close, like within 4-6 months you are fine. And there is a rider that stipulates that if you don't get a degree you are let go.

But, like me, you are in the DC area. And, whether we like it or not the spending cycle is dictated by the Fed. Right now, it's the latter part of the fiscal mid-year so they are always picky. Come fall things will be much better as they (the Fed) has to blow out any remaining cash of their budgets and then you have the oncoming fiscal year funding as well.

shodown

networker050184 wrote: »

Dodged a company that doesn't value talent and obviously has a bunch of corporate red tape. Consider yourself lucky.

Right here is the answer. I got in with a company who looked past my degree in the past. It just opened up the world to more bureaucracy. Should have seen it coming. I'm not saying this wasn't a good career move for you, but the fact that they even brought you in should be a sign that something is wrong. You should have never gotten the call if you didn't meet the basic requirements.

I need to add more to my thinking behind this. There is a need in 1 business unit(IT), and another unit(HR) is holding it up for no reason other than a rule, that a lot of people believe is outdated. This is the type of thing that cause companies to fail. If you don't have good communication between all the business units and them working on the same goals then problems are bound to happen.

joneno

Thanks shodown! I wasn't seeing it that way, but that makes sense. lol

zxbane wrote: »

What do you mean by the hopefully CRISC/CISM part, did you take them and just are awaiting endorsement or results?

I took CRISC this June and I'm waiting for the result. Also, I'm taking CISM Sept 6.

emerald_octane

That sucks. However when you finish your degree I'd definitely take what he said to heart and reapply afterwards especially if you were already at the contingent offer stage (contingent on a degree, of course). Some companies have security/HR departments that must follow the down to the letter everything for all candidates. Red tape, yes, but it's just to ensure that minimum standard is there. I'm sure he was just as blindsided.

MTciscoguy

It is amazing to me, that certain companies value degree's more than they do skill, I am a West Point graduate, spent 26 years in the Military and retired a few years ago, and you would be amazed at how many companies look at my resume and say, "you don't have a degree!" To which I politely disagree, I spent 4 years in Military school and was a decorate officer in addition to being wounded! Fortunately the company that I contacted on Wed is offering me a position to work as a Field IT engineer and they are finishing up my background checks today. I don't need the position, but would sure love to finally do something that I really love, the money is secondary to me, it is way less than I receive on my retirement, but I will be able to get back out in the field and interact with people, instead of sitting in front of this damn box all day long!

Keep your chin up, there are companies out there that value experience, sometimes it is just difficult to find them, in the mean time, finish up that degree, with your experience level, it will do nothing but help.

colemic

You're a West Point grad, and didn't get a formal degree? I thought that was standard...

Thank you for your service!

aftereffector

Yeah, I'm a little confused too. Maybe things changed, but you can't even be a promotable 1st Lieutenant (O-2, the second lowest officer rank) and not have a degree - and I have never heard of anyone receiving a commission from a service academy without also receiving a degree.

Jon_Cisco

The value of a degree or certification is always open to interpretation. I believe both have value but each situation is different. In my experience almost all IT jobs that are beyond entry level list a degree in the requirements. Many entry levels look for an associates and most advanced positions ask for a bachelors degree.

I believe to the business world it's a numbers game. Asking for a degree allows a company to quickly narrow it's target pool. For better or worse there is an assumption that more education is better.

Either way the company had no business interviewing you if they are going to set such a standard. I am sorry you had ot go through that.

Rosco2382

MTciscoguy wrote: »

"you don't have a degree!" To which I politely disagree, I spent 4 years in Military school and was a decorate officer

To quote the employers, "You do not have a degree?" How is that entirely possible?

joneno

@ Jon_Cisco I'm really not worried about it anymore. I wanted that job so bad because of the incentives, benefits and goodies tied to it. 95k with tuition assistance, bonus and all. The way I'm wired - I just use that as a motivation, instead of beating myself up.

datacomboss

joneno wrote: »

@ Jon_Cisco I'm really not worried about it anymore. I wanted that job so bad because of the incentives, benefits and goodies tied to it. 95k with tuition assistance, bonus and all. The way I'm wired - I just use that as a motivation, instead of beating myself up.

You're worth a whole lot more than $95K, especially in DC.

joneno

This is why I love this forum.

Asif Dasl

joneno wrote: »

This is why I love this forum.

MTciscoguy

Actually, I did receive a degree and it was recognized by a lot of institutions, but there are still many out there that don't realize that a degree from West Point is actually a degree, but you would be surprised how many times I have heard that statement.

I retired at a level of O-6, full Bird.

aftereffector wrote: »

Yeah, I'm a little confused too. Maybe things changed, but you can't even be a promotable 1st Lieutenant (O-2, the second lowest officer rank) and not have a degree - and I have never heard of anyone receiving a commission from a service academy without also receiving a degree.

Misconceptions are rampant in this country, believe me, I have experienced everything you can think of since I retired.

Rosco2382 wrote: »

To quote the employers, "You do not have a degree?" How is that entirely possible?

It is NOT possible, which is what makes it so funny!

aftereffector wrote: »

Yeah, I'm a little confused too. Maybe things changed, but you can't even be a promotable 1st Lieutenant (O-2, the second lowest officer rank) and not have a degree - and I have never heard of anyone receiving a commission from a service academy without also receiving a degree.

Exactly! You can't be an officer without a degree these days! And you couldn't get an appointment in 1979 unless you were pursuing a degree, when I started my career!

My whole point in my first post, was how uninformed many HR personal are these days.

abyssinica

Wow I had no idea degrees still mattered that much. Maybe it's because all the staff in McAfee have degrees and it would seem "unfair" to let someone without a degree have a well-paying job.

cmitchell_00

Dude.... Keep your head up. I was turned down many times for not having the Bachelors degree or certification but; I gained experience during that period. Then in the end I racked up more certs i.e. Cisco etc., received the the degree and had the experience so; just stand-fast and things will work itself out. You will get the job and pay you are looking for it's the patience factor we as humans must over come.

devils_haircut

Posts like this make me really glad I managed to get onboard with a company that values what you can DO over what piece of paper you have. They still encourage us to get degrees and certifications, and since the company has partnership levels with all the big names out there (Microsoft, VMware, Cisco, etc), they NEED techs and engineers who have certs. They even offer $3,000 per year towards certs and training. But they don't really seem to care whether you went to college or not. One of the perks of having a CEO who started out as an engineer before he formed his own company.

LeBroke

Out of curiousity, when this happens, do they want a degree in general, or a degree specifically in something computer science/technology/networking?

slinuxuzer

Close to the same thing happened to me two years ago, I got offered my dream job at the time, and the HR manager wouldn't negotiate salary because of my lack of degree, I ended up turning down a 10K raise over pride, and I started WGU 3 months later, now I am 10 credits from graduation. Hang in there man.

YFZblu

Probably a side-effect of living in DC, honestly. It's a hotbed for infosec jobs and infosec people - with virtually all information security-related companies having positions there. So they're able to be much more choosey.

I can tell you with certainty that type of exclusion doesn't take place here in Arizona, where finding competent security professionals is extremely difficult.

Jon_Cisco

LeBroke wrote: »

Out of curiousity, when this happens, do they want a degree in general, or a degree specifically in something computer science/technology/networking?

My experience is that the job listing says related industry but the HR department is satisfied with anything. I am sure every company and department will have a different take on this.