Newbie observations

alestor96

Hey guys, I just graduated from high school and was wondering if I'm right about a few things:

1. Network engineering is a better field than software engineering because it is not a "dead end career" and because of the possibility of attaining a CCIE (big bucks).
2. It would be wise to go from high school to WGU because I could finish in two years (I have 30 AP credits) and save a ton of money.
3. I should get a help desk job while at WGU, then start working as a network engineer once I graduate. A CCIE will be within my grasp before I'm 25-26 at this rate.

Is it really as simple as I think it is? Thanks!

Asif Dasl

Welcome to TE!

1. Software guys get paid really well, at least in Ireland from my experience (maybe even more than CCIE here). You can make a lot of money in IT but that shouldn't be your focus, you should be doing something you love to do, it makes facing work each day that much easier.

2. The members who have been to WGU will tell you if you are right on the timeline or not, but expect it to take longer than expected, it usually does.

3. You are becoming a CCIE already in your head and you haven't touched a CCNA book or touched a router? Ambitious I must say.

One overriding principal of life is - Life ain't simple.

I hope you stick around, there is a lot to learn here...

markulous

That's a good plan. Just be flexible, don't stop learning, and pursue something you think you'll enjoy and you'll be fine.

Danielm7

1. No. Most of the people I know in software dev get jobs easier and for higher salaries than the people I know in networking. Granted I don't know anyone personally at the CCIE level.
2. Maybe
3. Possibly

It's rarely as easy or direct as you think it is, so be prepared for things to be different. You'll find people here who luck into a job with no experience pretty easily, you'll also find people here that took 2 years of applying to everything they could find before they got their first break.

Have you studied any networking at all? Is the Network Engineer/CCIE thing only for the money? If so it could be a really miserable path.

networker050184

1. You can make the big bucks in either software or network engineering.
2. I'd concentrate on going to a normal school straight out of high school, not WGU.
3. Sure it will be within your grasp, but will it work out that way? Plenty people have had that goal but not many have succeeded!

alestor96

I had a near perfect SAT (2320) score...how hard can the CCIE be? I also could have gotten into many Ivy League schools if I applied, but I didn't because I didn't want to be swallowed by debt and I didn't feel like moving. As for what I do know about this field...well, I guess I can code somewhat and make websites (via codeacademy). My primary focus is to reduce the opportunity costs associated with a 4 year degree. If, for example, I elect to go my state school which costs double per semester as WGU, I will lose two years of help desk income (80k), plus the cost of tuition (10k). I doubt I would ever make that money back.

I might be misinformed, but I was under the impression that WGU=state school level education in earning potential and that software engineering=bust when you get old--unlike network engineering.

Thanks for all the responses!

Defiled

All those things are more than doable, but the main thing you need to actually appreciate is the difficulty of it. The way you've been making it seem, is that the CCIE is just a 'regular' certification. The written exam itself might be easy, however there's a significant gap in difficulty between the written and lab exams. The CCIE is rigorous for anyone, some people pass both exams on first attempt, but the majority of people take more than 2 attempts.

You'd need to eat, breathe, and sleep Cisco to pass it first attempt. High School is one thing, but the CCNP/CCIE is something completely different.

EDIT: Nobody goes from Helpdesk (Script reading) to Network Engineer, you should consider Network Support.

Furthermore I think you need to actually have some certifications to even enter WGU (A+, N+, S+)

alestor96

Defiled wrote: »

All those things are more than doable, but the main thing you need to actually appreciate is the difficulty of it. The way you've been making it seem, is that the CCIE is just a 'regular' certification. The written exam itself might be easy, however there's a significant gap in difficulty between the written and lab exams. The CCIE is rigorous for anyone, some people pass both exams on first attempt, but the majority of people take more than 2 attempts.

You'd need to eat, breathe, and sleep Cisco to pass it first attempt. High School is one thing, but the CCNP/CCIE is something completely different.

So going into networking with the main goal of passing the CCIE is not a good idea?

Yeah I'm about to start working on CIW foundations to get into WGU (but still haven't fully decided I won't go to my state school).

networker050184

Getting an expert level certification shouldn't be your main goal before you've ever logged into a router. Finding a network engineering job with just a degree from WGU and a year or two of helpdesk experience is not going to be an easy task. There are people that have been working in IT for years and still can't break through.

If you have the opportunity to go to a good school that would be your best bet to get into an engineering role. A lot of the bigger companies have programs for new grads to get into engineering departments. Getting something like that isn't going to be easy with a WGU degree.

rcsoar4fun

Realistically anyone can pass the CCIE with enough effort. However, having a CCIE doesn't mean you will make big bucks, you need the experience as well.

Danielm7

With near perfect SAT scores you could probably also get a full scholarship for a good CS or EE program.

Edit: You still should clarify why you actually want to be a CCIE, is it just the money?

jibbajabba

alestor96 wrote: »

I had a near perfect SAT (2320) score...how hard can the CCIE be? !

Someone with a 600 could blow someone with a 2400 out of the water. A perfect SAT score doesn't automatically make you a brilliant network architect who is specialist in Cisco gear

Dieg0M

This is a good plan but it will most likely change. I don't even know if in a couple of years the CCIE will still be a beast with the rise of SDN. Just remember that IT changes very quickly and you will have to adapt to whatever is the best on the market at that time.

tkerber

alestor96 wrote: »

I had a near perfect SAT (2320) score...how hard can the CCIE be? I also could have gotten into many Ivy League schools if I applied, but I didn't because I didn't want to be swallowed by debt and I didn't feel like moving. As for what I do know about this field...well, I guess I can code somewhat and make websites (via codeacademy). My primary focus is to reduce the opportunity costs associated with a 4 year degree. If, for example, I elect to go my state school which costs double per semester as WGU, I will lose two years of help desk income (80k), plus the cost of tuition (10k). I doubt I would ever make that money back.

I might be misinformed, but I was under the impression that WGU=state school level education in earning potential and that software engineering=bust when you get old--unlike network engineering.

Thanks for all the responses!

You're definitely ambitious but you're making a lot of assumptions without any sources to back up your claims. Software engineers, architects, etc make good money and are in high demand.... I would say that most software engineers start out a lot higher than network engineers. However, once you get to the CCIE level, the pay between a very high level network engineer and a very high level software engineer is usually pretty close. Also the CCIE from what I've heard is the equivalent of a Masters in computer networking. I don't think you're going to just go out and 'get it' in your early 20's unless you have some serious lab time, experience, and knowledge to back it up. I've only met two CCIEs, both were in there 30's, both had 10+ years of experience, and both had told me that they got their CCIE with lab time, experience, and more lab time + studying.

Going to school online and working isn't a terrible idea but also don't just assume you're going to land some 40K a year gig right out of high school... Look at the salary thread on these forums. You'll see that there are a lot of helpdesk techs out there with experience and qualifications that aren't even yet pushing 40K.

Lastly, you obviously have to be extremely passionate about technology to be successful in IT. If it's money you're after I would honestly say go for finance or medicine. Buddy of mine just graduated from a state university with a degree in finance. He just got a Research Associate position for a large financial firm and is not too far from six figures--right out of college.

alestor96

Danielm7 wrote: »

With near perfect SAT scores you could probably also get a full scholarship for a good CS or EE program.

Edit: You still should clarify why you actually want to be a CCIE, is it just the money?

You actually don't get scholarships for getting extremely high SAT scores (besides the presidential scholarship tons get), just the basic National Merit Scholarship that most universities don't even accept. While I do enjoy basic programming, the challenge of some mystical exam that few pass is what really drew me into Networking. Getting a niche certification that sets you apart is not possible in software engineering, so my test taking skills won't be of much use there.

Defiled

alestor96 wrote: »

So going into networking with the main goal of passing the CCIE is not a good idea?

Yeah I'm about to start working on CIW foundations to get into WGU (but still haven't fully decided I won't go to my state school).

Going into networking with the end goal of a CCIE is perfectly fine. I wasn't saying otherwise.

I'm simply implying, it's best to look what's in front of you, as opposed to something that's a mile ahead. Just remember IT is a vicious playground, and goals will very rarely go according to plan.

ImYourOnlyDJ

Well I would like to say that having a plan will put you ahead of the masses. I have to say figure out what you are passionate about and that is what you will be most successful with. WGU seems to be focused on those with more experience and looking to make a career change or need a degree to advance. I would imagine that with your SAT scores you could attend a good state college for only a fraction (or free) of the total costs plus you would have local connections and letters of recommendation.

And just to throw this out there, I have a friend with no certifications making 50k+ working with routers and I know people that have a CCNA and make 0k (unemployed).

puertorico1985

Your ambition is great, and your goals are somewhat defined. I would recommend that you first get your degree. You can do so while working, or simply going to school full-time. While gaining certifications will land you a tier 1, or low level gig...this path will certainly limit you in the future. You are still young, and there is no day like today to be the best you can be. Go to school, while getting a few certs, apply to entry level jobs once you achieve perhaps the A+ and N+ certs, and finish your BS degree. As time goes on, your plans will change due to unforeseen circumstances, but once you begin working, and you get your hands on some networking equipment, you will be able to better gauge if networking is still what you want to do. Best of luck!!!

alestor96

ImYourOnlyDJ wrote: »

Well I would like to say that having a plan will put you ahead of the masses. I have to say figure out what you are passionate about and that is what you will be most successful with. WGU seems to be focused on those with more experience and looking to make a career change or need a degree to advance. I would imagine that with your SAT scores you could attend a good state college for only a fraction (or free) of the total costs plus you would have local connections and letters of recommendation.

And just to throw this out there, I have a friend with no certifications making 50k+ working with routers and I know people that have a CCNA and make 0k (unemployed).

Thanks for the advice. Is there a very challenging cert that few software engineers have btw? If I go that route (i have some semblance of "interest" in it), I guess I could eventually get an MBA from a top school later to get into a managerial position (due to the dead end). Depending on whether state schools really do offer a huge benefit over WGU, I guess I'll go that route.

networker050184

Software engineering field is less concerned about certifications than say network engineering since you aren't necessarily concerned with vendor platforms.

VikingWarlord

I get the feeling you're going to do whatever you want to do regardless of what anyone here says.

I know many devs and high level networking folks. Matched up by experience, the devs out-earn almost every time. They also enjoy what they do, which is worth more than money after a point. I knew a guy who was a road warrior for IBM making about $150K and hated every minute of his life.

Deciding you're going to aim for a high-level cert before you've ever touched a single piece of equipment is probably not the best course of action. You should probably figure out if you even actually like it before committing yourself to such a lofty goal.

You also make the assumption that you can just get a help desk job at will. Good luck with that, it's still very much an employer's market most places. If you can, that's excellent...but it's difficult. Employers are being inundated with resumes constantly, and they don't really care what your SAT score was. They care if you can get the job done, and nothing says that like experience. You need experience to get experience, it's a real ***** but it's true. Networks made of people are as important in this business, if not more, as networks made of switches and routers.

alestor96

VikingWarlord wrote: »

I get the feeling you're going to do whatever you want to do regardless of what anyone here says.

I know many devs and high level networking folks. Matched up by experience, the devs out-earn almost every time. They also enjoy what they do, which is worth more than money after a point. I knew a guy who was a road warrior for IBM making about $150K and hated every minute of his life.

Deciding you're going to aim for a high-level cert before you've ever touched a single piece of equipment is probably not the best course of action. You should probably figure out if you even actually like it before committing yourself to such a lofty goal.

You also make the assumption that you can just get a help desk job at will. Good luck with that, it's still very much an employer's market most places. If you can, that's excellent...but it's difficult. Employers are being inundated with resumes constantly, and they don't really care what your SAT score was. They care if you can get the job done, and nothing says that like experience. You need experience to get experience, it's a real ***** but it's true. Networks made of people are as important in this business, if not more, as networks made of switches and routers.

Was that entire thing a euphemism for "don't go into IT!"? lol

MrAgent

Get your degree. You will be glad you got it later down the road, as not having one will definitely limit your employment opportunities.
If you are worried about the cost, then consider going to community college first and then finishing off at a state school.

ImYourOnlyDJ

VikingWarlord wrote: »

Deciding you're going to aim for a high-level cert before you've ever touched a single piece of equipment is probably not the best course of action. You should probably figure out if you even actually like it before committing yourself to such a lofty goal.

Reminds me of my very intelligent buddy that halfway through our Cisco academy class lost interest because his heart was in programming.

Danielm7

alestor96 wrote: »

Was that entire thing a euphemism for "don't go into IT!"? lol

Nope, that was someone being honest. If you are saying you want to get a CCIE because it's hard, well that is a terrible way to make a career decision. Medical school is hard, the BAR exam is hard, lots of things are really difficult if that is your only reason.

As VikingWarlord said, get your hands on some networking equipment, buy a CCNA book, watch a bunch of youtube videos, start digging into networking and see if it's something that really sucks you in before you look at the final end goal and try to steer your whole life in that direction. If you start to read a book on the CCNA and are falling asleep, you'll likely hate dedicating every spare minute for years studying that sort of material.

If you just want money, there are lots of different fields that will pay as well, or better, where you won't have to stay for emergencies and upgrades and are almost always viewed as a cost to the company.

abyssinica

I don't know why everyone here goes to WGU, I'm not saying it's a bad place but sometimes I wonder if people are just jumping on a bandwagon. I think it's good to explore your options first, it doesn't have to be WGU because there are many other schools too.

Danielm7

abyssinica wrote: »

I don't know why everyone here goes to WGU, I'm not saying it's a bad place but sometimes I wonder if people are just jumping on a bandwagon. I think it's good to explore your options first, it doesn't have to be WGU because there are many other schools too.

Because in most cases it's far, far cheaper than anything else accredited out there. You can accelerate your classes if you have prior experience. You can work at your own schedule, so you can do it while working full time. You get certs that help your resume and finding a job. All very good reasons for working adults. If I was 18 with no IT experience and could likely get a full scholarship somewhere I might have done something different. But, I'm not, and I had most of my GE classes done and wanted to just finally finish my BS.

Are there a lot of other options out there that do all that? Not that I'm aware of.

ratbuddy

Yeah, if you can show me another school where I can go from zero credits to accredited degree in 7.5 months for $6k, I'd be happy to see it.

Legacy User

alestor96 wrote: »

Is it really as simple as I think it is? Thanks!

That simple ha! one thing you will quickly learn with life things don't always go according to plan. Its great that you have a plan I know when I was in HS I had no clue what I wanted to do. But how do you know if networking is even for you? You never mentioned having any experience even in a classroom setting fiddling with networking equipment. You might do it and hate it.

I personally feel you shouldn't **** yourself on the college experience by going straight to online regardless of the school. If cost is a factor go to the a community college which is on avg $105/credit get your associates and transfer into the university of your choice where you will finish your last 2 years.

These are my .02 cents on your questions.

1. Where'd you hear software engineering is a dead end career who do you think made the software for networking equipment? Software engineers are the ones that push the limits coming up with new technology theres nothing dead end about it. Also, Software engineers can easily make the same or more then a seasoned CCIE it comes down to your own personal skill level.

2.Completing the degree in 2 years is possible but people grasp the material differently so for some it might've taken them 6 months to knock out 80 credits but for others it took 2.5 - 3 1/2 years to complete the degree. Wise to go to WGU straight out of highschool ehh..I don't know. You are still young if I were you I'd go to a BM school. People who go straight to online don't realize that there are essential skills that get picked up from actually going to a physical school especially if you do not have any real world experience. You miss out on building social skills, presentation skills, learning how to work in teams, etc. Skills that you will need in the work force.

3. Working help desk while in school is really ambitious its a great resume filler regardless of what school you go too. Achieving a CCIE is definitely possible but like others mentioned with IT theres constant change and who know in 6 years the CCIE might not even be relevant.

Asif Dasl

alestor96 wrote: »

Earlier you said... I had a near perfect SAT (2320) score...how hard can the CCIE be?

You actually don't get scholarships for getting extremely high SAT scores (besides the presidential scholarship tons get), just the basic National Merit Scholarship that most universities don't even accept. While I do enjoy basic programming, the challenge of some mystical exam that few pass is what really drew me into Networking. Getting a niche certification that sets you apart is not possible in software engineering, so my test taking skills won't be of much use there.

Have you thought about joining Mensa? That's a niche "certification" which sets you apart? I am actually testing this Saturday and will have a blog post on the process in the next 2 weeks after I get my results back. Maybe you have a high IQ but there are other intelligences like Emotional Intelligence which matter just as much. How hard can the CCIE be? Very - it just means maybe you don't need to go 100mph to make the CCIE maybe you only need to go 60 or 70mph to achieve the same thing.

But how you are in the workplace matters just as much as your IQ which is where your Emotional Intelligence comes in to play. According to wikipedia a 2320 would put you in the 99 percentile, I have tested my IQ as 136 which also put me in the 99 percentile and why I am getting tested with Mensa to know for sure. So, get your IQ tested with Mensa and you could have that nice title to put on your resume - there are only 50,000 people in Mensa in the US and only 110,000 worldwide. Something to think about.

Legacy User

abyssinica wrote: »

I don't know why everyone here goes to WGU, I'm not saying it's a bad place but sometimes I wonder if people are just jumping on a bandwagon. I think it's good to explore your options first, it doesn't have to be WGU because there are many other schools too.

I think its the appeal of the possibility of accelerating your degree reducing time of completion from years to months. I do agree everyone should explore there options. I have noticed its a bandwagon especially with new members because it does have the perception of being "easier" from peoples posts mentioning there quick turnaround time. The reality is those people are more of the exception then the rule. If you actually read reviews from different sites many people try and find its really does take work and drop out due to noone holding there hands.