Newbie observations

ratbuddy

Asif Dasl wrote: »

Have you thought about joining Mensa? That's a niche "certification" which sets you apart?

But how you are in the workplace matters just as much as your IQ which is where your Emotional Intelligence comes in to play. According to wikipedia a 2320 would put you in the 99 percentile, I have tested my IQ as 136 which also put me in the 99 percentile and why I am getting tested with Mensa to know for sure. So, get your IQ tested with Mensa and you could have that nice title to put on your resume - there are only 50,000 people in Mensa in the US and only 110,000 worldwide. Something to think about.

No offense intended, but Mensa is a joke, as are IQ scores. When you say 'I have tested my IQ' it says to me 'I took a bunch of unproctored online tests and posted up the highest score' but says nothing about your ability to actually do stuff. Emotional intelligence has also been fairly well debunked as a reliable indicator of performance as well.

I have multiple proctored IQ tests administered by school psychologists, the results of which, to be frank, blow yours out of the water. I would still never even dream of joining a mutual-adoration society such as Mensa or the numerous 'higher' societies I qualify for. I would never include IQ on a resume or mention it in an interview. It will just make you come off like a douche, IMHO. Let intelligence show through actions and performance, not through bragging or membership in a social club.

edit: BTW, Mensa takes the top 2% of intelligence test scorers, so roughly 6.3 million Americans qualify. Boasting of 50k members simply means that most people who qualify simply don't want to join. I think it's telling that fewer than 1% of eligible people choose to join.

Asif Dasl

ratbuddy wrote: »

No offense intended, but Mensa is a joke, as are IQ scores. When you say 'I have tested my IQ' it says to me 'I took a bunch of unproctored online tests and posted up the highest score' but says nothing about your ability to actually do stuff. Emotional intelligence has also been fairly well debunked as a reliable indicator of performance as well.I have multiple proctored IQ tests administered by school psychologists, the results of which, to be frank, blow yours out of the water. I would still never even dream of joining a mutual-adoration society such as Mensa or the numerous 'higher' societies I qualify for. I would never include IQ on a resume or mention it in an interview. It will just make you come off like a douche, IMHO. Let intelligence show through actions and performance, not through bragging or membership in a social club.

I truly believe if you have Mensa on a resume you won't get binned straight away. Hence why I am testing to know for sure and to put it on my resume. If you have a higher IQ, great, doesn't bother me all at - there will always be someone smarter than you somewhere.

The point I'm trying to make is, he has a high SAT score which doesn't mean much in the real world apart from something like Mensa which might help him on his resume if he chose software development as his path. Experience has always been king, especially around these parts - which is why he needs to consider all the parts that make up a career, certs, intelligence, experience, degrees, the whole lot...

ratbuddy wrote: »

edit: BTW, Mensa takes the top 2% of intelligence test scorers, so roughly 6.3 million Americans qualify. Boasting of 50k members simply means that most people who qualify simply don't want to join. I think it's telling that fewer than 1% of eligible people choose to join.

Most people have no idea they even qualify, I don't know how it is in the States but in Ireland we don't do blanket IQ testing. Don't forget the hefty fees Mensa charges is probably another reason why people don't join. But why can they charge that much, because people are willing to pay...

ratbuddy

Oh, I agree, I just felt like the OP would be doing himself a disservice if he went out and joined Mensa under the impression that it would open career doors. The odds of that happening are slim to none.

Personally I think OP should just go to the best school he can afford/get accepted to. Worry about upper level certs after you have a degree and job. If you graduate, get into the networking field, and still want a CCIE, great, go for it! On the other hand, you might discover along the way that you enjoy something else more, and you can change gears before wasting so much time and money on an expert-level cert in a field that doesn't actually interest you.

One last thing, as others have said, the whole 'old software people don't make as much as old networking people' thing is unfounded, and perhaps even blatantly incorrect.

markulous

Also, I didn't see it mentioned here, but typically to get into WGU you have to have certs, IT experience, or an associate's degree. That's what I was told by admissions when I signed up. You may have to get an A+ or MTA or something to transfer in.

Xavor

I read your post as wanting to do the CCIE because it is viewed as difficult to obtain. I'd recommend you pursue either a degree path such as an Associate Degree in Networking, do all the General Education courses, and transfer to a 4 year to finish a degree in a similar program.

I did this path, and the Associate level courses offered more hands-on labs in their networking program. If you want to study for the CCNA and eventually CCIE path, you can find older networking gear on eBay for about $100 which you can train with. It's not the fastest equipment, but it allows you to configure IOS images, routing, and mess with the WIC cards and cabling. If you have a home router, try to separate the wireless and physical networks into different subnets, configure ACLs, etc.

Colleges tend to have routine openings for help desk positions where you can do work-study and have the opportunity to see large scale lab implementations. Keep in mind, CCIE certified professionals tend to have at least 8-10+ years (plus Bachelor's) of consistently progressive experience designing and deploying network infrastructure.

AnthonyG

alestor96 wrote: »

Hey guys, I just graduated from high school and was wondering if I'm right about a few things:

1. Network engineering is a better field than software engineering because it is not a "dead end career" and because of the possibility of attaining a CCIE (big bucks).
2. It would be wise to go from high school to WGU because I could finish in two years (I have 30 AP credits) and save a ton of money.
3. I should get a help desk job while at WGU, then start working as a network engineer once I graduate. A CCIE will be within my grasp before I'm 25-26 at this rate.

Is it really as simple as I think it is? Thanks!

CCIE by 25? I love this ambition but slow down and enjoy life a little bit. I'd highly recommend going to a brick and mortar college. While you say you will save a lot money at WGU, instate tuition with a scholarship is pretty cheap as well. The connections you will make and intership possibilties are probably much larger than WGU depending on the school you go to. Just as an example, NC State in Raleigh, NC is around several large technology companies including yours truly, Cisco. Also, I believe by going away to college you will learn a lot more about who you are and where you want to go in life besides your career. "Don't live to work, work to live" is the saying right?

P.S. I made many friends and memories in life that I will always cherish during my time at University of South Carolina. Go Cocks!

Jon_Cisco

1 - Is it really as simple as I think it is? Thanks!

Yes it is but very few people follow that path at your age.


2 - and I didn't feel like moving.

Is there a high demand for CCIE's in your local area?


3 - Getting a niche certification that sets you apart is not possible in software engineering, so my test taking skills won't be of much use there.

Being a good test taker is not the same as being a good worker.


I think your ambitious and thats good. Go for your dreams. At your age there is very little to lose from it.
I don't think WGU is a good fit for people fresh out of high school. Possibly fairly intelligent but social challenged people would thrive in this environment since they can remain secluded.
I would say if it interests you try it. Why not right. Just be open to the idea that you might find something else that you like better.
If I were in your position I would go to a traditional school and get he full benefit of college.

Good Luck!

VAHokie56

I think you would be missing out on a a lot.

Your plan sounds great for someone who is 25 and up, you are a young man about to graduate high school. In my opinion you need to go to a real college where you can get the social aspects that make people successful. You need to go out there make some bad decisions party a little bit, enjoy life. Working on certs and having a help desk job is still attainable while attending a normal university and those network jobs will be there in 4 years when you are done.
I work for a huge enterprise (large financial operation) and some of the most successful people there are the ones who can walk the walk in the social networking arena. These skills are learned via life experience most of which you pick up in your late teens early 20's and you don't want to do that stuck behind a PC going to online class.

I went to Virginia Tech and studied a non IT related degree that I obviously do not use now and I will never regret it, had the time of my life and made friends I still see today. Good luck ether way you go

tkerber

VAHokie56 wrote: »

I think you would be missing out on a a lot.

Your plan sounds great for someone who is 25 and up, you are a young man about to graduate high school. In my opinion you need to go to a real college where you can get the social aspects that make people successful. You need to go out there make some bad decisions party a little bit, enjoy life. Working on certs and having a help desk job is still attainable while attending a normal university and those network jobs will be there in 4 years when you are done.
I work for a huge enterprise (large financial operation) and some of the most successful people there are the ones who can walk the walk in the social networking arena. These skills are learned via life experience most of which you pick up in your late teens early 20's and you don't want to do that stuck behind a PC going to online class.

I went to Virginia Tech and studied a non IT related degree that I obviously do not use now and I will never regret it, had the time of my life and made friends I still see today. Good luck ether way you go

This /\

What you said hit a little too close to home for me. I got myself a desktop support job right out of high school and started going to tech school because I really didn't quite like the idea of traditional college. Although I don't regret what I did, I still would agree with VA--go to a four year traditional university, have some fun, make some friends, and work part time. I spent three years working 50 hour weeks on top of full time school and I definitely wouldn't recommend that path to anyone. I was a hermit for three years and basically lived and breathed IT. Although I have a pretty sweet gig now, I wish I would have lightened up more and visited friends/let loose. You're only in your twenties once and boy let me tell you, these are the best years my friend!

alestor96

Hmm...I'm actually leaning towards going into a hacker school now due to the possibility of quick money. I tried some code on teamtreehouse.com and it came pretty naturally (and not boring!). I gave my resume to several boot camps and so far Code Fellows, in Seattle, seems quite receptive to me. I could join the hacker school and, if I prove my worth to them, can easily get a 75k+ job at my age!

Is this a good idea?

alestor96

dmarcisco wrote: »

That simple ha! one thing you will quickly learn with life things don't always go according to plan. Its great that you have a plan I know when I was in HS I had no clue what I wanted to do. But how do you know if networking is even for you? You never mentioned having any experience even in a classroom setting fiddling with networking equipment. You might do it and hate it.

I personally feel you shouldn't **** yourself on the college experience by going straight to online regardless of the school. If cost is a factor go to the a community college which is on avg $105/credit get your associates and transfer into the university of your choice where you will finish your last 2 years.

These are my .02 cents on your questions.

1. Where'd you hear software engineering is a dead end career who do you think made the software for networking equipment? Software engineers are the ones that push the limits coming up with new technology theres nothing dead end about it. Also, Software engineers can easily make the same or more then a seasoned CCIE it comes down to your own personal skill level.

2.Completing the degree in 2 years is possible but people grasp the material differently so for some it might've taken them 6 months to knock out 80 credits but for others it took 2.5 - 3 1/2 years to complete the degree. Wise to go to WGU straight out of highschool ehh..I don't know. You are still young if I were you I'd go to a BM school. People who go straight to online don't realize that there are essential skills that get picked up from actually going to a physical school especially if you do not have any real world experience. You miss out on building social skills, presentation skills, learning how to work in teams, etc. Skills that you will need in the work force.

3. Working help desk while in school is really ambitious its a great resume filler regardless of what school you go too. Achieving a CCIE is definitely possible but like others mentioned with IT theres constant change and who know in 6 years the CCIE might not even be relevant.

By dead end, I'm referring to the paucity of software engineers past the age of 40. It's much harder to imagine a 55 year writing code than it is to imagine a 55 year old managing a network,

alestor96

ratbuddy wrote: »

No offense intended, but Mensa is a joke, as are IQ scores. When you say 'I have tested my IQ' it says to me 'I took a bunch of unproctored online tests and posted up the highest score' but says nothing about your ability to actually do stuff. Emotional intelligence has also been fairly well debunked as a reliable indicator of performance as well.

I have multiple proctored IQ tests administered by school psychologists, the results of which, to be frank, blow yours out of the water. I would still never even dream of joining a mutual-adoration society such as Mensa or the numerous 'higher' societies I qualify for. I would never include IQ on a resume or mention it in an interview. It will just make you come off like a douche, IMHO. Let intelligence show through actions and performance, not through bragging or membership in a social club.

edit: BTW, Mensa takes the top 2% of intelligence test scorers, so roughly 6.3 million Americans qualify. Boasting of 50k members simply means that most people who qualify simply don't want to join. I think it's telling that fewer than 1% of eligible people choose to join.

From what I understand, your working memory span is a good gauge of your IQ. There is a very notable correlation between your digit span and your proctored IQ test; in other words, it's very rare to have a good working memory and bad overall IQ. In that regard, at the very least, IQ tests are not improper ways of measuring cerebral quality. Go on cambridgebrainsciences.com to get an accurate assessment of your intellectual profile. My digit span's percentile pretty much mirrors my percentile on the full IQ battery.

I actually do think that I will take Asif's advice and register for a Mensa examination.

Asif Dasl

alestor96 wrote: »

I actually do think that I will take Asif's advice and register for a Mensa examination.

Sent you a PM...

Danielm7

alestor96 wrote: »

Hmm...I'm actually leaning towards going into a hacker school now due to the possibility of quick money. I tried some code on teamtreehouse.com and it came pretty naturally (and not boring!). I gave my resume to several boot camps and so far Code Fellows, in Seattle, seems quite receptive to me. I could join the hacker school and, if I prove my worth to them, can easily get a 75k+ job at my age!

Is this a good idea?

I've never heard the term hacker school, but looking at the one you linked. It seems mostly geared towards people who are already software developers who are learning new languages, in those cases finding another job that pays well doesn't seem that much of a stretch. Going from a HS grad, to 8-16 weeks of training with no professional experience and getting a 75K+ job on the other hand seems very fishy. On their site they even say 65% of the people already had a BS degree.

Danielm7

alestor96 wrote: »

By dead end, I'm referring to the paucity of software engineers past the age of 40. It's much harder to imagine a 55 year writing code than it is to imagine a 55 year old managing a network,

Instead of just trying to imagine what age you think people work to in each field, you should do some research. I'm not even saying you are wrong, but I know a number of 40+ coders, they may not work at Facebook, but they are doing fine in high level corporate jobs. For a lot of those people if they started in their 20s, by the time they are 20-30 years in the field they are likely very senior level managers or directors, not just coding in the trenches any longer.

alestor96

Asif Dasl wrote: »

Sent you a PM...

For some reason my PMs aren't being sent...

I took several real IQ tests when I was younger (i had adhd) and regularly scored in the high 140s to low 150s range, but failed to break the 140 mark on cambridge brain sciences. This is most likely due to the fact that the site uses a percentile based system, with the average test taker being smarter than average. On IQ-test.com I just paid the $5 to take a test, got 148, and now it's asking me to pay either $16, $49, or $129 for membership...Sounds like a scam.

What do you think about "hacker schools"? I emailed several and two seem interested in me based on my high school resume. Code fellows is my top pick because it has the lesser cost of the two. Dev Bootcamp is quite pricey...They have around 20% admission rates, so they're quite selective in order to maintain their 95%+ job placement rates. These boot camps have a lot of connections that could prove invaluable.

TechGuru80

networker050184 wrote: »

1. You can make the big bucks in either software or network engineering.
2. I'd concentrate on going to a normal school straight out of high school, not WGU.
3. Sure it will be within your grasp, but will it work out that way? Plenty people have had that goal but not many have succeeded!

Good points made. If you go to WGU you run the risk of not being able to change...normal schools you can change if interests change. Second, you will gain maturity and life experience going to a normal school. A lot of people at WGU have been out for a bit. Approach things one step at a time because as said life can be unexpected.

Asif Dasl

@alestor96 - I got all of your PMs, the yearly membership is optional. You can just take the IQ tests to find out your score. 148 is very high, you should definitely go for Mensa with that score. I'm thinking I won't get in now - seen as I only got a 136! haha.. On Cambridge brain sciences - I got top 44% for short-term memory (average) and top 95% for Reasoning Ability & Verbal Intelligence. Mensa is the only one that really counts and you can't find that test online...

As for hacker schools - I really don't know. It wouldn't be my area of IT and there are some really s**t hot security folks on this forum here, so it's worth asking them the question - probably in it's own thread so you get more hits for it..

alestor96

@Asif - My sent folder still has 0 messages in it so I assumed my PMs were unsent, sorry about that lol.

alestor96

Asif Dasl wrote: »

@alestor96 - I got all of your PMs, the yearly membership is optional. You can just take the IQ tests to find out your score. 148 is very high, you should definitely go for Mensa with that score. I'm thinking I won't get in now - seen as I only got a 136! haha.. On Cambridge brain sciences - I got top 44% for short-term memory (average) and top 95% for Reasoning Ability & Verbal Intelligence. Mensa is the only that really counts and you can't find that test online...

As for hacker schools - I really don't know. It wouldn't be my area of IT and there are some really s**t hot security folks on this forum here, so it's worth asking them the question - probably in it's own thread so you get more hits for it..

Lol, by hacker schools I meant coding boot camps, not related to security.

Asif Dasl

No worries - I did the same thing myself when I first started on this forum. There is tick-box at the end of the post message which says - "Save a copy of this message in your Sent Items folder." Tick that and you are good to go in future...

RE: "coding boot camps" not hackers schools!! - The way to learn stuff is to do it slowly so I would be against most boot-camps that are out there, but if you find some use for it then go right ahead. But they say it takes 10,000 hours to master something so I guess to start the journey you start by taking the first step, which could be a book, a boot-camp or Treehouse CBT. I've a mate who swears by Treehouse for web design BTW...

petedude

ratbuddy wrote: »

Oh, I agree, I just felt like the OP would be doing himself a disservice if he went out and joined Mensa under the impression that it would open career doors. The odds of that happening are slim to none.

Better that the OP participate in MeetUps for the technology niche he's interested in.