Work ethic during "downtime"

Paul6

How does everyone here handle "downtime?" I ended up quitting my last job because they insisted I was engaged in something, even if it was phony busywork. I felt like I had to pretend to do stuff, which I refused to do. They "caught" me studying an MCSA book on a slow day and I was reprimanded. This was a help desk job that paid $28k. I quit, even though I didn't have another job lined up. Was this poor work ethic on my part?

srabiee

I study for certs. Luckily I had that luxury. I had some former co-workers in a different department that were also reprimanded for studying on the job. Two of them were chewed out for studying during their 1 hour lunch break. They have both since quit.

cyberguypr

^ Those guys chewed for lunch hour studying, was it hard copy books or were they using company equipment?

srabiee

From what they told me after they quit, they were sitting in an unoccupied meeting room eating lunch and studying for the CCIE. Books and laptops. The company issues all engineers a laptop to keep with them at all times while they are employed (take it home everyday).

Their department manager came in and told them if they wanted to study they had to do it off premises. Furthermore, he told them that if they were still inside the building during their lunch hour, then they forfeit their break and had to return to work immediately. They argued about it back and forth and ultimately resigned within the month. The company lost two extremely skilled network engineers. The studying thing isn't the whole reason why they left, more like the icing on the cake toward the end. I think the manager was just too much for them to deal with. I was on the system engineering team so I never had to deal with him.

One of the guys left to start his own company, the other left and doubled his salary. Worked out well for both of them.

mokaiba

That is odd that they reprimanded you for keeping busy. Most help desk-related jobs I heard of are ok with the employee studying up on IT material as it directly relates to the job.

OfWolfAndMan

It wasn't in my opinion. If a company doesn't care for my growth in the field, whether it be OJT or reading (And at work? Seriously?), then where will I be in 3-5 years? Doing the same thing with the same skill set? No thanks

Tyb

My job doesn't really care what we do during downtime, I am usually studying (CCNA Sec at the moment) but I have a coworker next to me who usually is snoring. This drives me crazy as that is the one thing I really do not like.

Priston

I'd much rather do something that benefits both me and the company like studying during down time than watching youtube and getting on facebook like some of my co workers do...

--chris--

The employer makes the rules, you abide by them when you are their employee. I know its not this simple and often not possible; but if you don't like it move on.

You did the right thing, but I don't know if quitting without lining up a job is the best way to do it. You will now have a blank spot on your resume that might need some explaining and some time off from working on your skill set.

Ive only had two jobs in IT, but both have required that I provide proof of work performed via billable hours. No one hounds me about keeping busy because at the end of the week if your hours are where they should be you are obviously keeping busy.

RomBUS

OfWolfAndMan wrote: »

It wasn't in my opinion. If a company doesn't care for my growth in the field, whether it be OJT or reading (And at work? Seriously?), then where will I be in 3-5 years? Doing the same thing with the same skill set? No thanks

+1 totally agree

jvrlopez

Always thought it was funny to stay around to meet hours if you're already done or have nothing to do. Sitting around doing nothing is okay as long as you leave at the end of your 8 hours? The same goes for arriving early to leave early...you get to work 2 hours early and don't have anything to do until anyone else gets in but you can leave 2 hours early? Bah. Luckily I'm usually busy for the most part.

Danielm7

OfWolfAndMan wrote: »

It wasn't in my opinion. If a company doesn't care for my growth in the field, whether it be OJT or reading (And at work? Seriously?), then where will I be in 3-5 years? Doing the same thing with the same skill set? No thanks

The sad part is an insecure manager probably does want you doing the exact same thing 3-5 years from now. I always figure that is where it comes from anyway. If someone is really upset that you're studying during your lunch break you have to examine where that logic comes from. If you study, you'll be worth more, and they don't want people leaving, etc...

NOC-Ninja

I study Cisco stuff. I read and watch Cisco videos. So far my boss understands it. For me, studying is working. The more I learn, the faster I am to fix the problem. I also get indirectly involve in some projects. They asked me about designs and to explain them how technologies work. Also, labbing and studying helps me to be faster in around the CLI.

Zartanasaurus

srabiee wrote: »

From what they told me after they quit, they were sitting in an unoccupied meeting room eating lunch and studying for the CCIE. Books and laptops. The company issues all engineers a laptop to keep with them at all times while they are employed (take it home everyday).

Their department manager came in and told them if they wanted to study they had to do it off premises. Furthermore, he told them that if they were still inside the building during their lunch hour, then they forfeit their break and had to return to work immediately. They argued about it back and forth and ultimately resigned within the month. T

Besides the fact that the bolded is wrong and illegal, what a crappy work environment.

majestic_pecan

Zartanasaurus wrote: »

Besides the fact that the bolded is wrong and illegal, what a crappy work environment.

Definitely unethical and a crappy work environment but whether it is actually illegal depends on the state. In my state of Texas, for example, employers are legally allowed to tell their employees where they can take their breaks (off-premises in this example). This would at least be something the employer tells the employee beforehand though, not after working for a while. Shady stuff.

pevangel

The only "downtime" I get is when driving to a client's site.

VAHokie56

*looks for the work from home employees* hehe do not see any of them commenting here . I work from home about 40% of the time and when I have down time I typically study or like ninja mentioned I may get involved with work streams that may not necessarily be mine but hey I typically earn cookies for helping out and learn something at the same time.

Jon_Cisco

I fully support studying during your downtime. However I will play devils advocate for the sake of fair discussion.

Many people in this world have difficulty balancing priorities. This type of person might find it difficult to do two things at once. In this situation they may choose to do the wrong thing and leave work unfinished in order to study.

A boss that just does not want to be bothered might prefer loosing a few good employees just to avoid any possible conflicts. I have witnessed a lot of people go to great lengths to avoid doing their job so I can see this situation getting out of hand. It's a management thing but not every manager wants to manage.

I don't think your work ethic is in question here. As long as you were doing your job then you made a choice to leave because it did not fit your needs.

UnixGuy

srabiee wrote: »

...

Their department manager came in and told them if they wanted to study they had to do it off premises. Furthermore, he told them that if they were still inside the building during their lunch hour, then they forfeit their break and had to return to work immediately.....

I would quit on the spot. Actually I'd leave the 'premises' and he won't hear back from me again. I'd have a chat with his boss the next day, and let them know that this 'manager' doesn't know what he's doing, I'll let upper management/decision makers know that this manager was the reason behind my resignation. I'll make some noise even if they don't take any action against this manager.


I know some will disagree with this, but I found this the only way to fight this kind of behavior. Granted I won't be the 'winner' here, but I'm pretty sure this kind of 'manager' will think twice about repeating the same thing with other employees. No one should tolerate this IMHO.

AverageJoe

Paul6 wrote: »

How does everyone here handle "downtime?" I ended up quitting my last job because they insisted I was engaged in something, even if it was phony busywork. I felt like I had to pretend to do stuff, which I refused to do. They "caught" me studying an MCSA book on a slow day and I was reprimanded. This was a help desk job that paid $28k. I quit, even though I didn't have another job lined up. Was this poor work ethic on my part?

First, I'm in charge of a lot of technicians and I have no problem with them studying during slow periods. But...

I think your boss had a judgment call to make, and he didn't do anything wrong by reprimanding you. You obviously knew the expectation was to be busy (or seem busy), but you instead chose to spend time reading/studying.

Some bosses encourage employees bettering themselves. Other bosses are less tolerant of anything that isn't defined in your job description. You can't exactly say a boss is wrong for wanting you to work the hours you're being paid to work.

Even though I do encourage people who work for me to make good use of slow periods by studying for classes and certifications, I've also seen a lot of people take unfair advantage and study (or do personal reading -- even comic books) when we've had a backlog of jobs and systems piled up to work on. Maybe in your case there really wasn't anything else to be doing, but I've found that to rarely be the case. Even when my folks are studying, it's not usually because there's "nothing" to do. It's because there's nothing pressing to do. I allow that, but I can't fault bosses who are stricter about it.

Also, what we don't know is whether you were studying that MCSA book for 15 minutes or 7 hours. Your boss may not have cared, but I would have. To me it's perfectly acceptable to do some studying for 15 minutes here or a half hour there, but if we're talking about frequently taking several hours a day then that's more problematic.

As to your work ethic, you may well be a very hard worker, but what you described was a case where you quit because your boss wanted you to actually work the hours you're being paid to work. Based only on what you shared, if I'd say "good riddance" to you. You knew the company policy/expectation but you refused to comply.

Just my 2 cents.

mokaiba

VAHokie56 wrote: »

*looks for the work from home employees* hehe do not see any of them commenting here .

I commented.

puertorico1985

I agree with AverageJoe completely. The manager had a decision to make and decided that you be reprimanded for not working during work hours. I am not against studying on the job, as I do that a lot myself, but I can definitely see where that sort of system can be abused.

If I were a manager, I would definitely want my employees to better themselves, study and get certified , but I also believe that there should be a balance between work and study. There is always something that you could be doing at work, and "downtime" just means that there is nothing so urgent that it has to be done right this second.

wolfinsheepsclothing

Always have tech books open (pdf) to read in my down time. I can't sit idle; it's a compulsion lol

Ryuksapple84

It just comes down to what the rules are of the company and what your manager tolerates. If you don't like it, find another gig and let HR know why you left. I have done that before. There was a guy trying to get me fired for absolutely nothing that I had done to him. In the end I left and let HR know what happened, he was moved off the contract.

Params7

Kind of off-topic - but can the word "Downtime" be used in a context in which it implies your personal recreational/hobby time, or just small breaks between human production time in offices?

Cisco Inferno

downtime means the 5,10, maybe 15 minutes between tasks. Such as having a book by you while you for in between calls.

Pupil

Some people choose to hang around the watercooler during downtimes. Others choose to study to expand their knowledge and better themselves. An employer that reprimands use for trying to gain more knowledge to be better at your job is not worth your time.

E Double U

I only study for certs during my downtime and my team doesn't mind because I get all of my work done. Completed CCNA/P Security studies in the office (no need for a home lab when you manage the ASA/IPS devices) and working on CISSP now.

djentlemetal

My company highly encourages all of its employees to study for vendor certs during any downtime. We're a Cisco, Microsoft, VMWare, etc. partner so it's in the organization's best interest to insist that we pursue all types of certification that has to do with who the company is partnered with. Whenever I have a cert exam, my boss is like, "Oh yeah? Go! Whenever you need off, just go."

Raisin

I think a lot depends on how you do it. If you're leaning back in your chair, feet on the desk, while reading a book, odds are your manager might have an issue with that. Sit up straight, stay logged in with work related stuff up on your monitors, and there's a good chance your manager won't notice, or care that you're doing a little reading on the side.

Nafe92014

It all depends on your manager. My manager is only giving me 120 days to get my A+. Me, I only have 13 months of IT experience. With my A+ exams in 12 days, I study on my two 15 minute breaks and 30 minute lunch break.