Thinking about another degree and certs. Help me weigh the pros and cons of WGU plz?

jaycrewz

Quick background info. I have a bs in accounting, but desire to go into IT. Im just not into what I do, and I have always had a strong interest for computers. I live in the middle of nowhere, but commute to a suburb of a large metro city for work. My area, nor my companies area offer the best educational or employment opportunities…so long commutes to a regional metro city would be something I would have to do if I were to land an entry level position or go to a brick and mortar school. (think 2 hours commute to the nearest big city with decent schools and jobs)

This all said, what do some of you think about Western Governors University (WGU) online program? After doing research I can get a lot of certs along with a degree from their program. But while the program has its pros, Im very worried about the cons.

Pros:

- Regionally accredited by the Northwest Commission. Other schools accredited by them include the University of Washington, University of Oregon, University of Utah, and Brigham Young University, to name just a few.

- I can study on my own schedule, and have A LOT less traveling to do. This means I save a good amount of money on transportation costs. This also leaves me with a schedule that’s flexible in terms on finding an entry level tech gig. - Gaining a fair amount of industry certifications while obtaining the degree. That double whammy is great.

- Cheaper tuition over the course of a year, since you pay for 6 months at a time. Essentially I can go to school for a whole year for two-thirds of the cost it would cost me to go to a city or state college for an entire year (spring, summer and fall semesters). Basically I could get in more classes for less money.


Cons:

- Despite being a regionally accredited program, which is the gold standard of accreditation, WGU is fully online. And for the most part, people tend to see online institutions as second or third tier when compared to brick and mortar schools. I worry about my resume being tossed aside because I received my degree and certs from an online college.

Even though WGU gets praise from many students and educators, a lot of people still lump it into the same category with places like University of Pheonix or even vocational schools like Devry or ITT Tech. I fear a degree from WGU would be seen as a diploma mill degree- Though I can study on my own schedule, I feel like doing everything online would have me miss out on what the campus environment provides. In-person advisement and guidance cannot be replicated. And aren’t there labs and hands on things that I would learn better on a campus? I am worried I wont learn things well.

- How hard would it be to get internship opportunities when Im doing everything online and don’t have the help of a campus program to link me with businesses? Also I worry about not being able to meet people who can get my foot in the door, if Im mainly in the boonies studying online.

- Im not too thrilled about WGUs Pass/Fail grading. A lot of jobs care about GPA when it comes to computer stuff don’t they? So I feel like this harms the school’s credibility in the eyes of some, further lending to the negative perception some have regarding online schools.

cyberguypr

I've been in IT for 15 years. Got my online BS from a state university in 2011. Currently working on my WGU Masters now. Not once have my credentials (or lack of them before 2011) been questioned. The same way, I've never been asked about GPA. It is true that some people frown upon online education in general. You can try educating them but if that is not possible you gotta ask yourself if that is place where you wan to work. If a hiring manager can't tell the difference between WGU and the usual suspect diploma mills, they are not doing their job right. As a hiring manager I came accross a LOT of UoP and ITT type tech institute folks who either didn't know much or couldn't verbalize it. I'm sure there are decent graduates form those but I just haven't come accross any of them.

Online learning is not for everyone. It requires more discipline and organization than any instructor led course. I personally hate going to a physical campus and sitting next to people who may or may not care about the class. I am positive if online education didn't exist I would've never finished my degrees. At the end of the day you need to determine was has more value to you.

TomkoTech

Honestly I love WGU. It works for me. I have no fear of getting my resume tossed aside when and if I look for employment somewhere other than where I currently work.

I think people lend too much credence to "where" you get your degree. Unless you are going to an IVY league or top tier school I don't think it really matters. Maybe if your intention is to be a CIO at a major Fortune 500 company they would care. But for your general run of the mill senior IT professional what matters more is a.) you are qualified for the position b.) you have experience in handling the positions requirements c.) you have an aptitude to adapt to and learn new technology.

The WGU degree along with the accompanying certs show you have the ability to at least learn and show a serviceable amount of intelligence in the subject matter.

As for labs and such. They have mock labs in WGU. Or you can build a home lab to work off of.

BradleyHU

this might be a stupid question, but why get another bach, when you already have one, and just get a master's? Or you can go the certification route instead. there are plenty of pplz in IT which degrees outside of CompSci/CIS/MIS/IS/IT. I know pplz who have degrees in English, Marketing, Psych, etc that are doing IT now.

aspiringsoul

+1

I would consider a Masters at this point as well if you have a BA. Two of the best Technology Consultants that I know, have BA degrees that are not even close to IT (Accounting and Economics) and it does not impede them at all!

Consider the MS programs at WGU or other schools and focus on certifications as well.

Just my 2 cents. I think that an additional bachelor degree is redundant when you already have one. Probably best to invest your time and money in earning a masters instead.

Danielm7

BradleyHU wrote: »

this might be a stupid question, but why get another bach, when you already have one, and just get a master's? Or you can go the certification route instead. there are plenty of pplz in IT which degrees outside of CompSci/CIS/MIS/IS/IT. I know pplz who have degrees in English, Marketing, Psych, etc that are doing IT now.

^^ This. I'm a big fan of WGU. But I think if you already have a BS it isn't really needed. Build up your own lab, work on certs on your own, volunteer locally to get some experience, etc.

Also, most of your listed cons aren't all that valid anymore. Some places might discriminate, but I haven't seen it and I've been actively interviewing. Actually in my last interview one of the people on the board knew all about WGU and asked me a lot of questions and was very interested. I've never had someone ask about GPA, especially past your first job, it means almost nothing in determining if you'll be a good employee or not.

iBrokeIT

Before I start do you actually meet the admissions requirements? If not, its pointless to discuss the pro's and con's further. If you are completely brand new to IT, no experience, no certs or no other education in the field then a WGU IT degree is not for you. (Yes, blunt but completely honest)

BS Requirements:
Online Network Administration Degree | MCSA | WGU College of Information Technology

Edit: Suggesting he get a Master's degree in IT without prior experience in the field is bad advice and you will not be admitted.

Master's Degree Requirements:
http://www.wgu.edu/online_it_degrees/information_security_assurance_degree_details#admission
http://www.wgu.edu/online_it_degrees/network_management_master_degree_details#admission

MeanDrunkR2D2

No need to get a 2nd degree as you already have one. Focus on certs and breaking in at the entry level. It will serve you far better than getting a 2nd Bachelors. If you really want education, then look at a masters program. Plenty of people in IT that have degrees in something not even remotely related to IT.

markulous

Agree with the above. Two bachelor's doesn't make a lot of sense, just go for a Master's and certs.

Only people that are ignorant would look at WGU and lump it into ITT Tech/Phoenix and toss your resume. Being regionally accredited and non-profit distances itself from diploma mills. All of the certs and tests are monitored as well.

I've never heard of anyone caring about your GPA so I don't really see how the pass/fail thing would be any kind of issue. Probably most every employer is just going to see a degree and accept that.

jaycrewz

BradleyHU wrote: »

this might be a stupid question, but why get another bach, when you already have one, and just get a master's? Or you can go the certification route instead. there are plenty of pplz in IT which degrees outside of CompSci/CIS/MIS/IS/IT. I know pplz who have degrees in English, Marketing, Psych, etc that are doing IT now.

I cant get into graduate computer majors with my degree it seems. Plus I wouldnt want to make the jump straight into a masters program without having all the undergrad knowledge. Id want to have programming and database basics down before such a task like a masters.

And why not simply get certs? From reading around it seems that a degree and certs is better than one or the other...especially in the case of someone who doesnt even have a degree in the field. And tbh, financial aid would essentially cover these certs along with the degree. I dont have wages to spare at the moment sadly.

jaycrewz

PS - Can I get into WGUs MS program without a previous computer related degree? Would not having the undergrad beginnings in IT hurt me in terms of learning. I dont wanna risk a huge struggle with understanding the material. Thats a big concern of mine...especially since I will be taking out small loans.

jaycrewz

iBrokeIT wrote: »

Before I start do you actually meet the admissions requirements? If not, its pointless to discuss the pro's and con's further. If you are completely brand new to IT, no experience, no certs or no other education in the field then a WGU IT degree is not for you. (Yes, blunt but completely honest)

BS Requirements:
Online Network Administration Degree | MCSA | WGU College of Information Technology

Edit: Suggesting he get a Master's degree in IT without prior experience in the field is bad advice and you will not be admitted.

Master's Degree Requirements:
Master Information Security Degree Program | WGU College of Information Technology
Master Management Degree Program Online | MS Networking

=(

Ugh....lemme look this over. It would suck if I couldnt even get in to begin with.

And shouldnt a BS program be constructed in a way that it teaches the uninitiated the profession? I thought the whole point of undergrad was to teach students the fundies of their selected industry as they work up to their upperclassman years.

TomkoTech

If you have zero experience in IT, WGU is not going to be the school for you. Especially if you are worried about a "struggle understanding the material".

Your best option currently would be to self study for some certifications. I think to get accepted to the IT degree you are required to have work experience in IT, or previous certifications. There are easy certs to attain that satisfy that.

There is no sense taking out loans. All of the information is freely available on line to self-teach. I would suggest looking at the professor messor website and go through some of the videos. See if you can retain anything from those. If so take the next step and find some guides online to create a virtual lab to mess around in and get some practical experience.

A "strong interest" doesn't always equate an aptitude for learning it. And one of the biggest things in IT careers is the ability to pick up new technologies rapidly, on your own, with little to no formal instruction on it.

No one here knows your current skill level, or your study habits. If you have such a strong desire to get into IT do some self-study first and figure out if it is in fact something you can study for on your own.

iBrokeIT

jaycrewz wrote: »

PS - Can I get into WGUs MS program without a previous computer related degree? Would not having the undergrad beginnings in IT hurt me in terms of learning. I dont wanna risk a huge struggle with understanding the material. Thats a big concern of mine...especially since I will be taking out small loans.

You either need a related degree or significant job experience and certifications to do a MS. See my post above for links to the requirements.

Personally I think your best bet would be a 2 year community college that will let you waive some gen ed credits and jump right into the IT courses. That way you will learn how to study for certifications, get some hands on experience and will meet the requirements to join WGU for a BS degree. You will need to learn how to self study new technologies and certifications on your own after you graduate in order to remain relevant.

I would also look for a work study opportunity or a part time job in IT because getting your first IT job is always the hardest part. The career center might have some good leads.

BradleyHU

jaycrewz wrote: »

I cant get into graduate computer majors with my degree it seems. Plus I wouldnt want to make the jump straight into a masters program without having all the undergrad knowledge. Id want to have programming and database basics down before such a task like a masters.

And why not simply get certs? From reading around it seems that a degree and certs is better than one or the other...especially in the case of someone who doesnt even have a degree in the field. And tbh, financial aid would essentially cover these certs along with the degree. I dont have wages to spare at the moment sadly.

There's schools out there that will let you into a graduate Computer major, without a CS/CIS degree. You will have to take some pre-reqs tho before taking the grad classes...

jaycrewz

BradleyHU wrote: »

There's schools out there that will let you into a graduate Computer major, without a CS/CIS degree. You will have to take some pre-reqs tho before taking the grad classes...

Thanks Brad. Someone I know mentioned University of Maryland online. They seem to have a good program and good prices. Could some of you recommend other good and affordable MS programs? Especially ones that prepare me for certifications?

jaycrewz

Found these lists for nonprofit online schools. Im gonna use this as a guide, as I really would rather go the nonprofit route, as itll add credibility to my online degree (???). Ive read a lot about HR having bias against for profit schools that are mainly online colleges. Something for me to think on. http://www.guidetoonlineschools.com/...ols/non-profit Nonprofit Colleges Online Releases Ranking of Online Bachelor's Programs in Education Putting "Students before Profits" - CBS News 8 - San Diego, CA News Station - KFMB Channel 8

aspiringsoul

jaycrewz,

iBrokeIT makes a very valid point. It's unlikely that you would be accepted to WGU's college of IT without prior experience or certifications. I was accepted into WGU's MS:ISA program, but I was surprised just how selective they are for their programs. They do not want to enroll students without prior experience, and because of that, I believe they have a high retention/graduation rate.

However, WGU does offer a MBA: IT management degree that I believe you could easily be accepted into since you have a regionally accredited accounting degree and work experience. If you would like to be in a management position at some point, this might align with your goals better.

Don't be disheartened. Like I mentioned in my previous post, one of my colleagues is a Technology Consultant and he has an Accounting degree. He also earned an MBA w/ Information Systems focus. I just think you would have a better return on investment if you invested your time and money in earning a graduate degree while simulatenously pursuing IT certifications, instead of enrolling in another Bachelor program, or taking classes at a community college (although this can be a very cost effective way to learn).

WGU's MBA IT Program and details here:

MBA in IT | Degree Details | WGU College of Business Online

College of Business Admissions | Online MBA Admissions | Western Governors University Online

I will refer you so you can get your application fee waived. You would just have to pay your school a fee to send your transcript to WGU.

coffeeluvr

Your local Community College may offer Cisco courses where you could get some hands on experience with Cisco equipment. Community Colleges are usually pretty cheap.

FYI, I have a BS in Accounting, Business and Economics and a MSISA.

jaycrewz

Thanks for the advice everyone. Any more info is appreciated.

Im going to look into other MS programs in IT online. Based on advice Ive gotten from others so far, it seems that I can get accepted into a few regionally accredited programs (possibly having to take prerequisites, which is fine with me).
Im trying to find schools that dont have reputations as diploma mills, and that are preferably non-profit (seems to offer better tuition and reputation when a school is nonprofit).

Also, my last year of undergrad was average GPA wise. I stupidly did a lot of partying…so it would be hard for me to get into certain online programs that require high GPA’s in the last credits before graduation. Don’t take this to mean I will slack off in grad school. Ive grown up a lot since my undergrad years, and Id really push myself towards A’s in all classes….the same way I did in my first two years of undergrad.
So far Ive really looked at:

1. University of Maryland University College - Problem here is that they are for-profit, and Ive seen some chatter online about the school being seen as a diploma mill despite its regional accreditation and it being part of the University of Maryland state school system.

2. Bellevue University – nonprofit, regionally accredited with a brick and mortar campus, as well as typical campus life (dorms, sports teams, etc) but from what Im reading online, its also not respected by some in its region…and can be seen as a diploma mill.

3. Southern New Hampshire University –nonprofit, regionally accredited. I really liked the specialization offerings for their MS in IT program, and the school is brick and mortar…but yet it gets a bad rap due to using a lot of commercials and advertising despite being a nonprofit.

From the research Ive done, it seems they’ve gone from a small regional school to being a seen as a diploma mill considering how their online enrollment numbers are so many times greater than campus enrollment. And I’ll be honest, their website left me feeling like it was too easy to get in and that they weren’t much selective.

At the bottom of the Masters in IT page, they are throwing out info about not needing GRE or GMAT scores to join…and saying how you can earn your degree in as little as 15 months. While I like their program offerings, Im worried about a program that seems to push a message that you can finish quick and don’t need standardized tests to get in, coupled with their radio and tv adverts. For a non-profit private school they seem to do some things that remind me of less reputable for-profit schools.

4. UMass Lowell – I didn’t see anything I disliked about them…but like I said before…some schools I doubt I can get into given how I slacked off my last year and a half of school.
Im going to research many more schools over the next week or so and then apply to a few. Any more advice is GREATLY appreciated.

jaycrewz

coffeeluvr wrote: »

Your local Community College may offer Cisco courses where you could get some hands on experience with Cisco equipment. Community Colleges are usually pretty cheap.

FYI, I have a BS in Accounting, Business and Economics and a MSISA.

Yeah, Ive thought about volunteering at my 2 year alma mater. Its only a few minutes from my house and I could use any experience I could get. Someone recommended I do that.

TomkoTech

Most Master's degree's are advertised as being able to complete in about a year. Hell just about every university at this point offers a Bachelors/Masters combined set up in a 5 year program. So don't let that wording discourage you. Just like some people finish a Bachelors in under 4 years and others take a lot longer, it varies on the work/effort you put in.

widget101

Check out Mississippi State's M.S. in Information Systems. It looks like a blend of business and IT, can be completed online, and tuition is not too bad. Plus, with your bachelor's degree in Accounting, you can probably skip the degree prerequisites required for that school's AACSB accreditation. I can't speak to the quality of the program or how technical the courses are, but it may be worth checking out. Perhaps someone here can offer more information about the program.

Link: Mississippi State Online Distance MSIS

tjb122982

BradleyHU wrote: »

this might be a stupid question, but why get another bach, when you already have one, and just get a master's? Or you can go the certification route instead. there are plenty of pplz in IT which degrees outside of CompSci/CIS/MIS/IS/IT. I know pplz who have degrees in English, Marketing, Psych, etc that are doing IT now.

I already have a bachelors degree in History and Political Science (along with a Masters degree that I'm going to leave off my resume to avoid being labeled overqualified) and I'm trying to break into IT. 18 months ago I was at a dead end call center job and I had to make a change so I registered at my local community college for a AAS in IT. I know I have my Network+ and have passed the 801 (and hopefully the 802 very soon) of the A+. I know a lot of people think I won't need another degree but I see a lot of jobs which state they want someone a 4 year computer related degree. Am I right or am I worrying over nothing?

MeanDrunkR2D2

Honestly, once you build up your experience in IT, that would serve you far better than another degree. Since you already have a Masters level degree, I'd focus more on working in IT and gaining certs as you move forward in your career. Once you hit a certain experience point (maybe 3-5 years) people won't care what your degree is in and more about your experience and know that you have the intelligence to gain your bachelors and masters. Now, I do agree that it's probably a good thing at this point to keep your masters off your resume as it may make you look overqualified for entry level IT work. With most jobs that have an education requirement, it's usually labeled as Bachelors in It related degree or x years of IT experience. The biggest thing is to break into IT, get that job, work hard, learn and move forward in your career with opportunities that come forth in the future. If you are working in a helpdesk 3 years it's time to move forward, either internally in the company, or by looking for the next level up with another company.

ajs1976

jaycrewz,

Have you considered finding a position that is a hybrid of business and IT? IT Project Management, Business Analyst, Auditing, or product support for account systems like Great Plains Dynamics, Quickbooks, time and billing software, etc.

Also for grad schools, take a look at Dakota State University. In addition to Masters in IT and InfoSec, they have graduate certificates that are 3-4 courses.

jaycrewz

ajs1976 wrote: »

jaycrewz,

Have you considered finding a position that is a hybrid of business and IT? IT Project Management, Business Analyst, Auditing, or product support for account systems like Great Plains Dynamics, Quickbooks, time and billing software, etc.

Also for grad schools, take a look at Dakota State University. In addition to Masters in IT and InfoSec, they have graduate certificates that are 3-4 courses.

I already have a foundation in business as I went to a business school for undergrad. Having less interest in it, I would rather take an IT program thats more focused on computers than business. Im trying to get a firm grasp on IT rather than take more business courses that may be somewhat redundant to the knowledge I already have.

I will look into DSU though, thanks. Ive seen their program show up in a few lists online when searching for programs.

ajs1976

I wasn't suggesting taking more business courses. I was suggesting finding an IT related position that will leverage your business background.

What is your actual goal? To get an IT degree to get a job in IT?

stryder144

Talk to the admissions counselor at the school you'd most like to get accepted to. Many really good schools have an option to take one or two grad-level courses on a provisional basis. If you do well in the courses, they will accept you as a student. If you do poorly, they will cut you from the program. Unfortunately, you'll never know if they'll do that for you unless you ask first. Just be very upfront and honest with the admissions folks and I'm sure they'll help you out to the greatest extent possible.

TechGuru80

At this point it seems to me that WGU is in a weird position...not quite ITT but not quite a well respected university such as a traditional university. At least with WGU you get certifications as part of the curriculum. Online schools are gaining popularity because of the flexibility...as long as there is a DISCUSSION aspect...because that allows personal/professional growth. There are other online universities from traditional universities that offer high quality degree programs. You should decide what you want to do before starting a program. There are degrees in Forensics, Cyber Security, IT Management...the list goes on and on. Accounting and auditing is actually a really good match from various job postings but it all depends on your interests.

As cyberguypr said, online degrees require discipline because you have to make sure you stay on pace. It can be difficult but utilizing weekends and after work time it can be done.

Getting an internship is doable...you just have to apply, apply, apply. If you get into an area such as security there is a high demand on interns linking to jobs because of the lack of workforce who are prepared.

I had lab assignments through VMs. Just make sure you have a good computer and you should not have issues.

jaycrewz

Updating both my threads:


So I just got a few replies from directors and chairs of a few IT/Computer Systems departments I applied to. The consensus was that a Masters program wouldn't be good for someone like me, who has no prior IT education or certifications, despite my experience and knowledge dealing with computers and tech as a strong hobbie growing up.


I kind of thought this before hand myself, and its good that programs wouldnt just let me jump into a Masters...because despite some of the things I do know, there's still a lot I dont know. So for now I have gotten some materials to begin studying for the COMPTIA trifecta. My community college is actually a testing center and two miles from home, which is great.


So the plan for now is to study for the CompTIA entry level trifecta, while the spring semester approaches. I will also enroll in a Bachelors IT program in a nearby city in order to get more education and hands on experience in a lab. Hopefully I land an entry level gig or do well in an internship while in school, and see what happens.




Its not imperative that I finish another bachelors, but its doesnt hurt to start and give myself a foundation and see where it leads. Plus possibly getting an IT based degree would help in getting certain jobs. A lot of jobs in my area ask for them...even entry level or lower level positions. A friend I went to high school with is currently programming for UPS and only has a degree with no certs. His degree program got him into a good internship program, and he built his skills upon that.


Im applying to the same program and hopefully this all pays dividends. I think I should be able to get at least the A+ certification by January, but the goal is to also get Network+ or Security+ in that time as well.


Wish me luck in all this. Its a day by day learning process and Im still figuring out my path.