How much CCNP is covered in CCIE?

quirMquirM Posts: 4Registered Users ■□□□□□□□□□
A little about myself, I'm 21 studying at university "ICT (network design & security)" and one of our core unit is CCNA we currently have access to real cisco switching and routing equipment for our labs and to have a play around with. We're almost completed the last competency for CCNA-4.

I'd like to know if CCNP is truly a stepping stone for CCIE? I've got friends of mine that's studying for CCIE when they only have CCNA. (same position as me)

I'm not quiet sure if I should be jumping to CCIE straight away knowing that it will be harder to grasp, but certainly worth it (in my eyes) currently I'm studying relevant enterprise modules and passing my skills/written and online chapters with ease and have a passion to start CCIE knowing that I will be working with Cisco equipment in the future.

I just need your feedback on this, is it a good idea to start CCIE with only CCNA + bachelor degree? Why and why not ?

Cheers,

Comments

  • fredrikjjfredrikjj Posts: 879Member
    Pretty much 100% of the topics in CCNP:RS are in CCIE:RS, making CCNP a subset of CCIE. However, you don't need to go as deep. You could study for the CCIE and then just take the CCNP exams once you've covered those topics (layer 2, the routing protocols, some tcp/ip theory, etc). I personally think that it's pointless because you gain very little from that approach and you risk giving up because the material feels too difficult. At least in my case, it felt good knowing that what I needed to know for each CCNP exam was all in one book, and that allowed me to study the hell out of those books without getting distracted.

    However, I would add a TCP/IP book to your CCNP studies. Comer's Internetworking with TCP/IP is pretty good and it will give you some important pieces of information that is mostly absent from the cert guides.
  • quirMquirM Posts: 4Registered Users ■□□□□□□□□□
    I see so you're saying study for CCNP and most topics are covered in CCIE, do the CCNP exam which will give me prep. for CCIE? ( I would kind of find it risky studying CCIE material then sitting the CCNP exam).

    I see no point getting certified for CCNP when I aim for CCIE. Hence studying for CCIE would require me to go through some CCNP content, I'm willing to study CCIE along the way with CCNP but not as heavily, only so to help me with CCIE, then sit the CCIE exam instead of CCNP.

    Just curious if there's anything wrong with that?
  • fredrikjjfredrikjj Posts: 879Member
    quirM wrote: »
    I see so you're saying study for CCNP and most topics are covered in CCIE, do the CCNP exam which will give me prep. for CCIE? ( I would kind of find it risky studying CCIE material then sitting the CCNP exam).

    Yes, that's what I'm saying.
    I see no point getting certified for CCNP when I aim for CCIE. Hence studying for CCIE would require me to go through some CCNP content, I'm willing to study CCIE along the way with CCNP but not as heavily, only so to help me with CCIE, then sit the CCIE exam instead of CCNP.

    Just curious if there's anything wrong with that?

    Well, there's nothing wrong with that, necessarily, and it has been done. It's just that most people don't have what it takes to just study for and pass the CCIE so it's a pretty good idea to have some milestones along the way to keep you motivated, like taking one or two CCNPs. Additionally, it might not even be a good idea to specialize so heavily right from the get go. What about firewalls, virtualization, scripting, linux? Then there are the logistics of the entire thing. How are you going to pay for say 3 CCIE attempts (first attempt pass rate is very low) as a 21 year old college student?
  • silver145silver145 Posts: 265Member
    mmmmmm - What university you at? I went to birmingham city and did a similar course.

    WHEN i was in your position i did my ccna, then CCNP (didnt think of CCIE at this point) - Try and walk before you can run atleast. The CCIE is something that if you underestimate, you will give up on and have 0 to show for it. Studying for the CCNP (which you will need to know 100% for CCIE) is logical. It allows you to gauge your self in how you are doing, plus a certificate which is valid on your CV, shows that you are more qualified than your friends (even if your not)

    Choose a step whats best for you, but as CCIE does incorporate all of the NP materials, why not get something out of it on the journey, instead of the 2+ years its going to take (potentially)
  • gorebrushgorebrush Posts: 2,741Member
    The CCIE covers everything in the CCNP, and THEN some.

    I would say that with the new format of the exam, the CCIE isn't really suitable for someone who doesn't at least have any real world experience. I'm thinking more about the Troubleshooting and Diag sections more than anything else.

    Personally I very much liked the progression from CCNA->CCNP->CCIE.

    CCIE is very much throw you in at the deep end though and if you don't have at least a good grounding at CCNP level and a few years experience, I would say that the majority of people would struggle at CCIE level but it is not impossible. Nothing is impossible. :)
  • quirMquirM Posts: 4Registered Users ■□□□□□□□□□
    fredrikjj wrote: »
    ... it might not even be a good idea to specialize so heavily right from the get go. What about firewalls, virtualization, scripting, linux? Then there are the logistics of the entire thing. ...

    We have already completed contents in multiple Linux distro which covered shell/bash scripting, apache and pen-testing toolkits and have core subjects directly relating to VMware (which involves Windows Server 2008 R2, AD DC, SQL, IIS, WDS, AIK, NLB), Hyper-V (on 2008-R2 SCVMM, VDI infrastructure, SQL)

    silver145 wrote: »
    mmmmmm - What university you at?
    Swinburne - Australia
    silver145 wrote: »
    plus a certificate which is valid on your CV, shows that you are more qualified than your friends (even if your not)
    yeah having certifications doesn't always necessarily mean you are more qualified than people who don't have the certification. You can start a whole new debate with that statement. Well for me I'm willing to take my time and prepare myself for CCIE (which clearly shows that I'm not underestimating it) I have all sorts of study materials, practice tests and exams. I do know that you need some sort of real world networking experience to grasp CCIE properly and I do have friends whom currently work at a telecommunication company with CCIE which certainly will be able to guide me or benchmark me as i progress.
  • joelsfoodjoelsfood Posts: 1,025Member
    SPeaking for the datacenter track, CCNP is definitely a subset of the CCIE information. But the difference between the two is worlds apart, if you include the lab. Both require a pretty broad knowledge of the subjects, but the CCIE lab also requires knowledge and experience of USING the subjects.

    CCNP can be passed by reading all of the materials (which should include the configuration guides, data sheets, etc). CCIE requires hands on. Think of the difference between reading a review of a 30yo scotch, and actually tasting it. Or better yet, reading about the process of making scotch, or going out and doing it yourself, from farming the grains to distilling to bottling.
  • Dieg0MDieg0M Posts: 861Member
    The gap between CCNP and CCIE is much larger than the gap between CCNA and CCNP. Most people go for a CCNP first as it might take you a couple of years before passing the CCIE. Good luck.
    Follow my CCDE journey at www.routingnull0.com
  • silver145silver145 Posts: 265Member
    having something is better than having nothing.

    If you are sifting through CV's and a guy has CCNA vs a guy has CCNP - they are not going to take time to read that you are deep in study for ccie unless you have either X years to back it up.


    As for your last post it already sounds like you have decided to go straight for CCIE, good luck and keep us informed
  • networker050184networker050184 Posts: 11,962Mod Mod
    Look at it this way, the vast majority of people that decide to tackle the CCIE never even get to the point of attempting it, much less passing. I know I've picked up studying quite a few times over the years just to have work or life take me in another direction.

    Get the CCNP along the way. Nice mile stones in your study and you can have something to show for your work on the resume. Nothing motivates you to keep grinding like a pass or new shiny cert. Not like you are going to get an actual CCIE level job right out of school anyway.

    I know, you're different, you won't give up until you pass, it won't take you years of study. That's what they all say! Very rarely does it work out that way.
    An expert is a man who has made all the mistakes which can be made.
  • gorebrushgorebrush Posts: 2,741Member
    I know, you're different, you won't give up until you pass, it won't take you years of study. That's what they all say! Very rarely does it work out that way.

    Never a truer word said.
  • Dieg0MDieg0M Posts: 861Member
    I know, you're different, you won't give up until you pass, it won't take you years of study. That's what they all say! Very rarely does it work out that way.
    We were all young once. :)
    Follow my CCDE journey at www.routingnull0.com
  • joelsfoodjoelsfood Posts: 1,025Member
    FWIW< I think last numbers I saw on lab exam were 7% first attempt pass and 20-30% overall, with 3.4 attempts on average before passing.

    Just a bit of perspective
  • gorebrushgorebrush Posts: 2,741Member
    Whoa 7% pass first time... icon_neutral.gif

    Also, I've been trying this on and off since 2010 :) Only seriously put in my near 1100 hours since May 2013.
  • IristheangelIristheangel ABL - Always Be Labbin' Pasadena, CAPosts: 4,098Mod Mod
    quirM wrote: »
    I'd like to know if CCNP is truly a stepping stone for CCIE? I've got friends of mine that's studying for CCIE when they only have CCNA. (same position as me)

    Heh. They may be "studying" for their CCIE with no experience and a CCNA but that's a far way off from having it. Just because your friends are doing it that way doesn't mean that you have to.

    My advice is study smarter and listen to your more advanced peers on this forum when they tell you to shoot for the CCNP first before heading in the direction of the CCIE.
    BS, MS, and CCIE #50931
    Blog: www.network-node.com
    Bonus TE Fun: Nerd Photos
  • quirMquirM Posts: 4Registered Users ■□□□□□□□□□
    I know, you're different, you won't give up until you pass, it won't take you years of study. That's what they all say! Very rarely does it work out that way.

    yeah I see where you're coming from, but hopefully I wont make that mistake.

    Thank you all for the valuable feedback.

    I guess I'll have to smash it with CCNP > CCIE. You guys made a good point, "practices makes perfect". Spending my time on CCNP will definitely reward me in terms of knowledge and skill which also will guide me to CCIE.

    I guess when I'm studying CCNP I must not forget about CCIE :D

    also a rookie question: Just say I study all the way up to CCIE and get my certification, by the time I get it, if my CCNA has expired then would I be required to renew CCNA ? or would I just need to renew my highest qualification?

    Cheers,
  • silver145silver145 Posts: 265Member
    If you get the CCIE and your CCNA has expired, you wont need to think about the NA
  • Dieg0MDieg0M Posts: 861Member
    The CCIE written will renew any lower qualifications.
    Follow my CCDE journey at www.routingnull0.com
  • gorebrushgorebrush Posts: 2,741Member
    And all the NP level exams would renew it too.

    I'm good til 2016 now...
  • lrblrb Posts: 526Member
    The only thing I would add to what everyone else has said is that there is definitely some personal gratification from passing exams which can also help you feel validated about what you have been studying hard for. A CCIE can, and most often does, take a year or more of consistent study and there are a lot of times where you will feel like you are going backwards with your study, especially as you realize just how many topics there are that you need to know and understand very well to even have a shot at passing the lab. Take the CCNP exams on the way because a pass will at least prove that you are on the right direction towards your CCIE end goal.

    Good luck!
  • gorebrushgorebrush Posts: 2,741Member
    Absolutely!

    There is so much mileage in taking the CCNP exams as you go. The CCIE is hard and at times, so demoralising, and also with life and work and everything else that can get in the way, you feel at times as if you are just wasting time by not studying. You just need to be able to factor "life" into your schedule and it won't be so bad when you do get distracted.

    Also, 98 days to go icon_neutral.gif
  • sacredboysacredboy Posts: 293Member
    Guys I have an opposite question. How much of CCIE is covered in CCNP?
    Best, sacredboy!
  • joelsfoodjoelsfood Posts: 1,025Member
    My experience int he datacenter track is that CCNP definitely introduces the same topics and technologies as CCIE, but not nearly to the depth to be of much use. The three levels definitely do add up over the same technologies though (CCNA-CCNP-CCIE) in the datacenter track.

    All cover the same ideas and technology, each to a much greater level than the one before.
  • TechGuru80TechGuru80 Posts: 1,535Member ■■■■■□□□□□
    Each level builds on the knowledge from the previous. NA - NP - IE. The levels vary because the tasks for somebody at each level change. You would probably forget a bunch if you had a low level position but had a CCIE. Set attainable goals for each level to avoid frustration and so you keep seeing success.
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