Am I wrong?

rsxwithslicksrsxwithslicks MemberMember Posts: 75 ■■■□□□□□□□
Sorry in advance if this is in the wrong sub-section. Wasn't sure as this wasn't really Certificate related.

Backstory: Worked as Desktop Support Tech for a "small" company for about 1.5 years. Was verbally promised a raise after my 90 day review period but was then told the company was on a pay freeze. Apparently no one in the company has received a raise in over 5+ years.

IT manager left for greener pastures leaving me to be the IT department for the entire company. He suggested to management that I get a desktop support tech, a bump in pay and title change and I hold down the front. 10 minutes after IT manager left, I was verbally told I would be getting IT manager's office, bump in pay, and a desktop support tech to help. I would just need to take on the tasks of the IT manager while they do whats necessary to make this all come true.

Week 3: During negotiations, they tell me all is off the table except the additional compensation for the additional duties I will be performing. They ask what I want and then offer 50% of that. I politely decline explaining that since I am the entire IT department being on call 24/7/365, handling all desktop support, AND expected to do all the tasks of the former IT manager except development was a little one sided especially for that compensation. They basically tell me I'm qualified to do the work for them but not qualified for the pay or title change. They continue asking me to do work on the servers and what not while "figure out a solution".

Week 4: I tell management that I will no longer be doing duties of the IT manager and focusing on the job I was hired to do as Desktop Support.

Week 6: They have not been looking for a replacement IT manager for weeks. They've secretly been hiring for desktop support. And they continue asking me to do work that is not in the realm of desktop support.

So though management knows I am sticking to what I was hired to do, they continue asking me to do things on the servers, SQL databases, dealing with all vendors, etc. I've decided to be firm and not budge on my stand. Furthermore, when they hire a new desktop support, I will gladly train them in desktop support. Anything beyond that, I plan on declining to train as 1) I was never formally trained on any of it and according to management not qualified and 2) Since I was considered a potential candidate, I don't want to hear that I improperly trained the new person to have them intentionally fail.

Am I wrong? I would love to hear the opinions of those who are professionals in the field. Thank you in advance.
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Comments

  • TownTown Member Posts: 15 ■□□□□□□□□□
    You now have 1.5 years experience plus it sounds like someone that would recommend you (your old boss). This company is clearly not going to pay you what you deserve, and for all you know once they hire someone new they might let you go, since you won't do what they (unreasonably) want you to do. Why not look for a better paying job that values you and offers good training?
  • DeathmageDeathmage Banned Posts: 2,496
    I personally from past experience if a employer gives you the line "your experience doesn't match your desired pay" then you should look for a new job and pounce.

    It's not you're fault they were dishonest from the get-go and it's not you're job to take on the burden of someone else.

    Me personally I'd start looking and get out. See ask this question, would you rather have a job or be in limbo looking for a job? ....they can fire you in a heartbeat...remember that...
  • 2230622306 Member Posts: 223 ■■□□□□□□□□
  • zxbanezxbane Member Posts: 740 ■■■■□□□□□□
    I agree with everyone else, time to get out of there. The fact they say you are qualified for the work but not qualified to get compensated at the level of the work you would be doing is a sign to get out.
  • Chev ChelliosChev Chellios Member Posts: 341
    Get out ASAP! Loyalty means nothing to companies and as Deathmage said they can easily screw you over in a flash, look after number one and get something else lined up
  • Danielm7Danielm7 Member Posts: 2,294 ■■■■■■■■□□
    They basically tell me I'm qualified to do the work for them but not qualified for the pay or title change. They continue asking me to do work on the servers and what not while "figure out a solution".

    That's total BS. If you're qualified to do the work, then you're qualified to get paid for doing the work which means you should have been given the title too.

    As for the "figure out a solution" part, they are likely looking for someone to replace you who will do what they want and who won't refuse the added duties. I'd be looking for a new job ASAP.
  • markulousmarkulous Member Posts: 2,394 ■■■■■■■■□□
    I'd smile and do what they wanted me to at this point but I'd be pumping out resumes. Let them lowball someone else.
  • cyberguyprcyberguypr Senior Member Mod Posts: 6,886 Mod
    ^ there. Summed it up perfectly.
  • HeeroHeero Member Posts: 486
    They basically tell me I'm qualified to do the work for them but not qualified for the pay or title change.

    LOL. That is literally saying "you are qualified to do the job, we want you to do the job, but we don't want to pay you to do the job."
  • IT-FellaIT-Fella Member Posts: 63 ■■□□□□□□□□
    I believe there is a slight chance for OP to get the IT manager's title and compensation at some point. Do you have a degree? How do you handle the meetings and relationships with vendors? Would it be a possibility for you to go to school and show your employer that you're serious about moving up to a management role?
  • NersesianNersesian Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 96 ■■□□□□□□□□
    Two schools of thought on this. You can do the job and hope the company will compensate you for the work down the line or you can not do the work under the belief the company will not compensate you for the work down the line. I'm a company guy 90% of the time and while most would disagree with me, I think you need to do the job in order to prove you deserve to be paid for it.

    That said....

    Your company is failing you on this one. Have you ever had one of those times where you look back and think, "Gee, if only I had known when they would start hosing me?" This is that time. Brush up that resume and start hitting the applications hard on company time. Take PTO...have a "family emergency", meet the absolute minimums on ticket times and maybe sit on a few invoices for a week or so. I'm willing to bet you're not asking for an additional $150k a year here, so your company is hedging to see if they can get a better deal on the open market. The problem is, they're not being very discreet about it which is going to (understandably) piss you off. I would recommend doing your job to standard, but not much above.

    Sorry about the bad news. Either they don't like you very much or don't value the work you have or potentially will do for them. I think most of us have been in a similar position one time or another, but it is awfully hard to see it when you deal with it every day. I'm starting to realize departing recommendations may not go as far as we like. I got burned when an IT Director left and left me with his recommendation, leaving me near radioactive within that company. Dunno if that's the case in your situation, but it does happen.
  • TomkoTechTomkoTech Member Posts: 438
    Im with the majority here. However if I were you I would take the minimal raise they are offering and do the added responsibilities. This covers 2 birds, it gives you SOME compensation for the extra work, AND it allows you to put the skills on your resume that you should be pumping out like an oil tycoon.
  • rsxwithslicksrsxwithslicks Member Member Posts: 75 ■■■□□□□□□□
    I've been sending out my resume and realize there's no future here. Considering they've completely stopped looking for an IT manager and instead looking for someone to take my position, would it be considered unprofessional to not train the new hire on the IT manager's tasks? I was not trained in anyway. Just left a word doc with admin accounts/passwords and a diagram showing the network.
    IT-Fella wrote: »
    I believe there is a slight chance for OP to get the IT manager's title and compensation at some point. Do you have a degree? How do you handle the meetings and relationships with vendors? Would it be a possibility for you to go to school and show your employer that you're serious about moving up to a management role?

    I do not have a degree. I've been trying to study to gain some certifications but limited time prevents me from attending school at the moment. I handle the meetings and relationships well as I've been a general manager of a small business for over 5 years and understand customer/business relations/service quite well.
    Nersesian wrote: »
    I'm willing to bet you're not asking for an additional $150k a year here, so your company is hedging to see if they can get a better deal on the open market. The problem is, they're not being very discreet about it which is going to (understandably) piss you off. I would recommend doing your job to standard, but not much above.

    Haha. I should asked for an additional 150k lol. I get paid $17 per hour ($35,360 annual) and felt that $32 per hour ($66,560 annual) would be fair considering that I don't have the "ideal" amount of education/experience. They offered me $24.50 ($50,960 annual) with the condition of being under review and after I get my A+, Network+, Security+, CCENT/CCNA, and MCSA certifications, we can "discuss" me getting the additional $7.5 per hour I was asking up front. Considering no one has gotten a raise in over 5 years and most people have told me that they get paid less than they did when they first started working here, it would be foolish to believe them. I might get the review but doubt I would get the pay.

    Furthermore they wanted me to stop doing OT completely. I explained that doing all the desktop support for the company (3 locations and about 175 users) on top of dealing with vendors, tending to all the servers, and researching the procurement of new IT equipment, fixing phones, tending to network issues, etc is not something that can really be done in 8 hours a day. Just putting out the fires since the IT manager left has cause me to go from 8 hour days to average between 10-12-15 hour days every day. I'm sure if I gave them my personal number, they would be calling me through the night as well. Lol.
  • rsxwithslicksrsxwithslicks Member Member Posts: 75 ■■■□□□□□□□
    I guess I should mention that the former IT manager really spoiled the company by being a one man team. He did networking, telecomm, development, mobile, administration, and anything else the company needed in regards to IT. He could do it all and probably why he left for MUCH GREENER pastures.. lol.
  • NersesianNersesian Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 96 ■■□□□□□□□□
    I was going to comment on the pay rate, but decided to not be snarky because it would come off as mean.

    I don't know what kind of Fisher Price organization you work for, but they should do away with overtime, move you to a salaried position, give you a company card, cell phone and then proceed to work you into the ground with the promise of a helper down the road. You would feel like you came out ahead, they would end up cutting an FTE and the work still gets done(ish). All they would have to do is string you along for a year or so and then get you a warm body to help at minimum wage.

    175 to 1 does not a happy end user community make. I guess you could do it if you virtualized the desktop environments, but that's a big ask. For your sake, I hope they've tried to price outsourcing 'cause they've got a pretty sweet deal going on. I've got a crisp $20 that says the next support person in there will last less than a year, which in turn is going to end up costing the company more money than they would have spent by just paying you.
  • srabieesrabiee Member Posts: 1,231 ■■■■■■■□□□
    Polish your resume and get it out there. Sounds like it's time to jump ship ASAP.
    WGU Progress: Master of Science - Information Technology Management (Start Date: February 1, 2015)
    Completed: LYT2, TFT2, JIT2, MCT2, LZT2, SJT2 (17 CU's)
    Required: FXT2, MAT2, MBT2, C391, C392 (13 CU's)

    Bachelor of Science - Information Technology Network Design & Management (WGU - Completed August 2014)
  • MeanDrunkR2D2MeanDrunkR2D2 MCSA: Server 2012, MCITP: EDA KCMember Posts: 897 ■■■■■□□□□□
    Well, honestly you need to find a new job, and find it quick. They'll see your refusal to do what they ask you to do (more than your current responsibilities) for no extra pay as a sign that you don't want to be there and are probably already on their way to find someone to replace you after you have them trained (if not before).

    Hit the job boards hard and you'll find a place that you'll be treated better and paid fairly for the work they will have you do.
  • rsxwithslicksrsxwithslicks Member Member Posts: 75 ■■■□□□□□□□
    Nersesian wrote: »
    I was going to comment on the pay rate, but decided to not be snarky because it would come off as mean.
    I'm actually kind of interested in what you have to say.. If you don't want to post for everyone to view, I would appreciate a PM.
    Nersesian wrote: »
    I don't know what kind of Fisher Price organization you work for, but they should do away with overtime, move you to a salaried position, give you a company card, cell phone and then proceed to work you into the ground with the promise of a helper down the road. You would feel like you came out ahead, they would end up cutting an FTE and the work still gets done(ish). All they would have to do is string you along for a year or so and then get you a warm body to help at minimum wage.

    175 to 1 does not a happy end user community make. I guess you could do it if you virtualized the desktop environments, but that's a big ask. For your sake, I hope they've tried to price outsourcing 'cause they've got a pretty sweet deal going on. I've got a crisp $20 that says the next support person in there will last less than a year, which in turn is going to end up costing the company more money than they would have spent by just paying you.

    I totally agree with you but in CA, you can still qualify for OT under non-exempt classifications. Also IF they offered some form of help guy, I would of probably accepted with the knowledge that I'm using the time to learn and get ready to move on. Of course it would seem a little difficult with the supreme title of Desktop Support Technician.. lol.
    Well, honestly you need to find a new job, and find it quick. They'll see your refusal to do what they ask you to do (more than your current responsibilities) for no extra pay as a sign that you don't want to be there and are probably already on their way to find someone to replace you after you have them trained (if not before).

    Hit the job boards hard and you'll find a place that you'll be treated better and paid fairly for the work they will have you do.
    They mentioned during negotiations that they fear I'm going to just take the pay and leave. I explained that by taking on all the duties of the entire IT department while retaining the $24.50 and Desktop Support title is them asking me to leave. There is essentially no growth what so ever as there will never be anything else to warrant a title change or further compensation.

    I've been polishing my resume as best as possible with my limited IT experience. Its a little funny.. when I was negotiating, I found plenty of desktop support jobs offering 20-$26 around the area. Once I started sending out resumes, the average pay seemed to drop down to $16-18. Lol.
     
  • TomkoTechTomkoTech Member Posts: 438
    Okay. Now Im gonna change my tune a bit. You are making $17 an hour and they are wanting to move you to salary at ~$50k a year? What you need to do is write the decision maker(s) a letter and break it down for them. For you to accept the pay they are offering they aren't giving you a raise at all. If you go from a 40 hour work week to a minimum of 50 the ~$14k difference in salary just covers what you would make hourly with 10 hours a week of overtime at $17/hr. Explain to them WHY you deserve the $66k you asked for. Explain that you understand the promotion will require extra hours each week. Honestly the bump to $24.50 is fair. However basing that on a 40 hour work week is not. If they were to pay you $24.50 based on 50 hour work week it would be an honest offer. And puts you at ~$63k a year salary.

    If they are in fact offering you to stay hourly at $24.50 and don't want you to work any overtime I would take that in a heart beat. Eventually they will ask you to work over, and then you will be getting the pay you feel you deserve.

    Especially with having no certs/education right now for you to find a new position paying what you are looking for is going to be a a rough task.
  • TomkoTechTomkoTech Member Posts: 438

    I totally agree with you but in CA, you can still qualify for OT under non-exempt classifications.


    Pretty sure a sys. admin title would move you out of that qualification.
  • NersesianNersesian Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 96 ■■□□□□□□□□
    - I'm actually kind of interested in what you have to say.. If you don't want to post for everyone to view, I would appreciate a PM.

    I was going to say I had never spoken to anyone who was paid in gum. These can't all be winners folks.
    I'm also not an attorney, so my overtime comments were based on the cumulative knowledge of where I've worked and dealt with time sheets over 8 states. I had no idea (obviously) about CA labor law.

    Bottom line is you're getting the brown end of the stick and it appears as though your employer is trying to make it red. Not nice at all. You must live in the parts of California I've never seen - places that have reasonably priced housing, an affordable cost of living and understanding significant others.
  • rsxwithslicksrsxwithslicks Member Member Posts: 75 ■■■□□□□□□□
    TomkoTech wrote: »
    If they are in fact offering you to stay hourly at $24.50 and don't want you to work any overtime I would take that in a heart beat. Eventually they will ask you to work over, and then you will be getting the pay you feel you deserve.

    Especially with having no certs/education right now for you to find a new position paying what you are looking for is going to be a a rough task.
    I've considered that but seeing how any additional compensation in the future is dependent on my ability to perform to their standards and getting the certifications, I've decided to accept the position IF they are willing to guarantee the certifications will warrant the additional compensation along with a title change. I mean.. If I wasn't doing a good enough job, they should look to replace me. Not continue having me do a sub-par job and just not give me a raise right?
    TomkoTech wrote: »
    Pretty sure a sys. admin title would move you out of that qualification.
    wrote:
    Pulled from the Department of Industrial Relations website (www.dir.ca.gov)
    employee in the computer software field Except as provided below in paragraph 5, an employee in the computer software field who is paid on an hourly basis shall be exempt under the professional exemption, if all of the following apply:

    1. The employee is primarily engaged in work that is intellectual or creative and requires the exercise of discretion and independent judgment.
    2. The employee is primarily engaged in duties that consist of one or more of the following:
      • The application of systems analysis techniques and procedures, including consulting with users, to determine hardware, software, or system functional specifications.
      • The design, development, documentation, analysis, creation, testing, or modification of computer systems or programs, including prototypes, based on and related to, user or system design specifications.
      • The documentation, testing, creation, or modification of computer programs related to the design of software or hardware for computer operating systems.
    3. The employee is highly skilled and is proficient in the theoretical and practical application of highly specialized information to computer systems analysis, programming, and software engineering. A job title shall not be determinative of the applicability of the exemption.
    4. The employee's hourly rate of pay is not less than $41.00 [the rate in effect on September 19, 2000]. The Division of Labor Statistics and Research shall adjust this pay rate on October 1 of each year to be effective on January 1 of the following year by an amount equal to the percentage increase in the California Consumer Price Index for Urban Wage Earners and Clerical Workers. Click here for adjusted rate information (pdf) (doc).
    5. The exemption described above does not apply to an employee if any of the following apply:
      1. The employee is a trainee or employee in an entry-level position who is learning to become proficient in the theoretical and practical application of highly specialized information to computer systems analysis, programming, and software engineering.
      2. The employee is in a computer-related occupation but has not attained the level of skill and expertise necessary to work independently and without close supervision.
      3. The employee is engaged in the operation of computers or in the manufacture, repair, or maintenance of computer hardware and related equipment.
      4. The employee is an engineer, drafter, machinist, or other professional whose work is highly dependent upon or facilitated by the use of computers and computer software programs and who is skilled in computer-aided design software, including CAD/CAM, but who is not in a computer systems analysis or programming occupation.
      5. The employee is a writer engaged in writing material, including box labels, product descriptions, documentation, promotional material, setup and installation instructions, and other similar written information, either for print or for onscreen media or who writes or provides content material intended to be read by customers, subscribers, or visitors to computer-related media such as the World Wide Web or CD-ROMS.
      6. The employee is engaged in any of the activities set forth in nos. 1 through 4 above for the purpose of creating imagery for effect used in the motion picture, television, or theatrical industry.
  • rsxwithslicksrsxwithslicks Member Member Posts: 75 ■■■□□□□□□□
    I would like to thank the people who took the time to respond and for those who will continue to respond. All this insight and opinions from you guys is greatly appreciated.
  • TomkoTechTomkoTech Member Posts: 438
    California law stuff


    Yeah I just read.
    [h=3]The Computer Profession Exemption DOES NOT APPLY to hardware and "IT" workers[/h] As can be be seen below, the actual text of the law limits the exemption to individuals in the "software field." The exemption goes on to explain that individual engaged the "manufacture, repair, or maintenance of computer hardware and related equipment" is not covered the the Computer Professional Exemption. This means that any helpdesk position or "network administrator" will not be covered. If you spend the majority of you time installing, maintaining, or configuring computer hardware such as routers, switches, servers, desktops, laptops, or handheld devices, you are likely entitled to overtime pay, even if your salary is in excess of the amounts listed above.
    In addition, simply configuring and maintaining existing computer software will also not be covered by this exemption because it is not "intellectual or creative." As such, maintaining a Microsoft Exchange Server, Active Directory, or being a Unix Administrator and handling such things as backups and recoveries, resetting passwords, setting user and directory permissions, and other routine maintenance tasks will not be covered by this exemption and you will likely be entitled to overtime pay, even if your salary is in excess of the amounts listed above.

    So apparently most IT workers are entitled to overtime pay. I need to move to Cali lol.
  • rsxwithslicksrsxwithslicks Member Member Posts: 75 ■■■□□□□□□□
    Nersesian wrote: »
    - I'm actually kind of interested in what you have to say.. If you don't want to post for everyone to view, I would appreciate a PM.

    I was going to say I had never spoken to anyone who was paid in gum. These can't all be winners folks.
    I'm also not an attorney, so my overtime comments were based on the cumulative knowledge of where I've worked and dealt with time sheets over 8 states. I had no idea (obviously) about CA labor law.

    Bottom line is you're getting the brown end of the stick and it appears as though your employer is trying to make it red. Not nice at all. You must live in the parts of California I've never seen - places that have reasonably priced housing, an affordable cost of living and understanding significant others.
    What's even crazier is that the company YTD sales for 2014 as of today is over 20 million.. Lol. I understand this place is not a career gig but a jumping off point. I don't even want to get into our "benefits" here. Haha. I'm just worried that retaining the 50k salary and Desktop Support title will be viewed negatively in the future at potential employers.
  • RouteMyPacketRouteMyPacket Member Posts: 1,104
    I've been sending out my resume and realize there's no future here. Considering they've completely stopped looking for an IT manager and instead looking for someone to take my position, would it be considered unprofessional to not train the new hire on the IT manager's tasks? I was not trained in anyway. Just left a word doc with admin accounts/passwords and a diagram showing the network.



    I do not have a degree. I've been trying to study to gain some certifications but limited time prevents me from attending school at the moment. I handle the meetings and relationships well as I've been a general manager of a small business for over 5 years and understand customer/business relations/service quite well.



    Haha. I should asked for an additional 150k lol. I get paid $17 per hour ($35,360 annual) and felt that $32 per hour ($66,560 annual) would be fair considering that I don't have the "ideal" amount of education/experience. They offered me $24.50 ($50,960 annual) with the condition of being under review and after I get my A+, Network+, Security+, CCENT/CCNA, and MCSA certifications, we can "discuss" me getting the additional $7.5 per hour I was asking up front. Considering no one has gotten a raise in over 5 years and most people have told me that they get paid less than they did when they first started working here, it would be foolish to believe them. I might get the review but doubt I would get the pay.

    Furthermore they wanted me to stop doing OT completely. I explained that doing all the desktop support for the company (3 locations and about 175 users) on top of dealing with vendors, tending to all the servers, and researching the procurement of new IT equipment, fixing phones, tending to network issues, etc is not something that can really be done in 8 hours a day. Just putting out the fires since the IT manager left has cause me to go from 8 hour days to average between 10-12-15 hour days every day. I'm sure if I gave them my personal number, they would be calling me through the night as well. Lol.

    Wow, so for a guy with not many years or experience in IT you were offered $50,960 and declined? Where did you come to the opinion that $66,560 annually is what you are worth?

    So tell us, why do you have to constantly put out "fires"? What kind of issues are you bombarded with? Why do you need to "tend to all the servers"? What are "network issues"?

    Sounds like a mixture of inexperience, poorly designed/managed infrastructure that is overwhelming you. You have to ask yourself, "Do I have the skills to manage this environment and improve upon it so that it works for me and not the other way around?" Otherwise, what is the point of chasing this imaginary salary number if you can make no real improvements and get the environment under control?

    Also, what positions are you applying for when you leave this place? You could take the IMO generous raise they offered you and work on improving your existing environment all the while gaining valuable experience as you go along. If you can demonstrate that you not only "ran" the IT but can articulate how it was and what you turned it into (i.e., a well oiled machine) then someone would be more likely to pay you a higher salary to run their environment.

    You have to cut your teeth somewhere, why not there?
    Modularity and Design Simplicity:

    Think of the 2:00 a.m. test—if you were awakened in the
    middle of the night because of a network problem and had to figure out the
    traffic flows in your network while you were half asleep, could you do it?
  • TomkoTechTomkoTech Member Posts: 438
    There is nothing negative about it when you are the one writing your resume. You can put down your duties/responsibilities and everything you have done. The title is quasi irrelevant. Get the experience so you can claim it.
  • VeritiesVerities Member Posts: 1,162
    From my perspective you have a prime opportunity to really catapult your career upward and in a very fast manner. I agree with RouteMyPacket; take the pay raise they offered you, get working on those certs, and get that place fixed up. Do NOT be afraid to delegate work to your subordinates, but make sure you're laying the work down on competent folks. Not every company you'll work for is full of unicorns and rainbows.
  • rsxwithslicksrsxwithslicks Member Member Posts: 75 ■■■□□□□□□□
    Verities wrote: »
    From my perspective you have a prime opportunity to really catapult your career upward and in a very fast manner. I agree with RouteMyPacket; take the pay raise they offered you, get working on those certs, and get that place fixed up. Do NOT be afraid to delegate work to your subordinates, but make sure you're laying the work down on competent folks. Not every company you'll work for is full of unicorns and rainbows.
    I'm considering what you guy are saying...

    Also there are no subordinates...I am the sole IT person in the entire company for 3 locations and 175 users that continues to grow almost weekly.
  • VeritiesVerities Member Posts: 1,162
    I'm considering what you guy are saying...

    Also there are no subordinates...I am the sole IT person in the entire company for 3 locations and 175 users that continues to grow almost weekly.

    I misread your "week 6" sentence . Tell them you want in on the hiring process so you can interview for subordinates. I would think you probably need at least 2 more people. I forget where I found a suggestion for ratio of techs to users there are...I want to say 1 for every 60 but I can't remember a source, so take it with a grain of salt.
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