Am I wrong?

colemic

I (grudgingly) concur with routemypacket. Just because I usually disagree with him and think he is a crusty old curmudgeon.

That's a helluva raise for most people, and I don't remember if you gave your location or not, but that's a respectable IT salary in most markets (excluding metro areas.) I would think that very, very, very few people are able to negotiate a 100% salary increase overnight. And when they do, it's short-lived - why would they keep you around, when they can find someone more than willing to work for a substantially lower amount?

rsxwithslicks

Verities wrote: »

I misread your "week 6" sentence . Tell them you want in on the hiring process so you can interview for subordinates. I would think you probably need at least 2 more people. I forget where I found a suggestion for ratio of techs to users there are...I want to say 1 for every 60 but I can't remember a source, so take it with a grain of salt.

You must of misread it again as they haven't confided in me that they're hiring any additional IT personnel. They posted up the job on Indeed a few Fridays ago and immediately deleted the posting the following Monday. What was weird is that they didn't post the company site, nor on CareerBuilder and Monster like the normal job postings from the company. I found out that they've been directly contacting resumes on job boards while going through our spam filter.
And the person who's most qualified to hire any IT personnel would be me as everyone here is computer illiterate. Though no mention to me about it even when I directly asked if they were looking for any IT positions to fill whether IT Manager or Desktop Support.

rsxwithslicks

colemic wrote: »

I (grudgingly) concur with routemypacket. Just because I usually disagree with him and think he is a crusty old curmudgeon.

That's a helluva raise for most people, and I don't remember if you gave your location or not, but that's a respectable IT salary in most markets (excluding metro areas.) I would think that very, very, very few people are able to negotiate a 100% salary increase overnight. And when they do, it's short-lived - why would they keep you around, when they can find someone more than willing to work for a substantially lower amount?

I think its more of position change and not a raise. Also for reference, various salary sites indicate that Ontario, CA has an average pay of $53k-54k for Desktop Support including RHT.com, Salary.com, and CareerBuilder.com.

RouteMyPacket

rsxwithslicks wrote: »

You must of misread it again as they haven't confided in me that they're hiring any additional IT personnel. They posted up the job on Indeed a few Fridays ago and immediately deleted the posting the following Monday. What was weird is that they didn't post the company site, nor on CareerBuilder and Monster like the normal job postings from the company. I found out that they've been directly contacting resumes on job boards while going through our spam filter.
And the person who's most qualified to hire any IT personnel would be me as everyone here is computer illiterate. Though no mention to me about it even when I directly asked if they were looking for any IT positions to fill whether IT Manager or Desktop Support.

Then it's time you reset and begin working on developing and or rebuilding the relationship with your management/HR teams. 175 users is small fry but again you are overwhelmed due to the facts I mentioned before. As an example I would start a project spreadsheet to be presented and discussed with Mgmt that highlights improvements to network/server/telecom be it via upgrade/configuration changes/patching and organize them by priority (i.e, High, Med, Low)

You said you have worked there for some time, so I am sure you have all documentation created and verified as accurate yes? I'm guessing it's not documented, so make that priority number one. How can you manage and or improve that which you don't even know exists etc.?

How many servers do you have? Do you know what each one does? What function it "serves"? Can you quickly pull a document to answer any questions asked about them?

How many Routers, Switches, Firewalls do you have? Do you know how your network is designed? Can you login to them, make changes etc? Who has access and to what?

Do you have backups? When was the last backup taken?

Do you have a list of DID's so you know who has what number? Do you know what DID blocks you own? What numbers are available?

What systems do you have in place to take some of the administrative overhead off yourself? I'd be more than happy to point you in the right directions because I am hoping you want to be a game changer (i.e., competent IT Professional) and I promise you with a few changes here and there and some systems in place your overhead will come way down.

You have an opportunity here that you can't understand just yet, cut your teeth here and enjoy the amazing salary increase you are getting. Get the environment in shape and running with as little administrative effort then you move on to your next challenge, and on and on it goes until you will one day look back at this job/environment/salary and chuckle.

I stress it all the time to clients, administrative overhead is the killer of IT "Professionals" yet it is something that can be easily mitigated in most cases.

rsxwithslicks

RouteMyPacket wrote: »

Then it's time you reset and begin working on developing and or rebuilding the relationship with your management/HR teams. 175 users is small fry but again you are overwhelmed due to the facts I mentioned before. As an example I would start a project spreadsheet to be presented and discussed with Mgmt that highlights improvements to network/server/telecom be it via upgrade/configuration changes/patching and organize them by priority (i.e, High, Med, Low)

You said you have worked there for some time, so I am sure you have all documentation created and verified as accurate yes? I'm guessing it's not documented, so make that priority number one. How can you manage and or improve that which you don't even know exists etc.?
I do have it documented.
How many servers do you have? Do you know what each one does? What function it "serves"? Can you quickly pull a document to answer any questions asked about them?
16/ I have a pretty good idea/ pull a document?
How many Routers, Switches, Firewalls do you have? Do you know how your network is designed? Can you login to them, make changes etc? Who has access and to what?
4 routers/6 switches/1 firewall. I can login to them. I have a sheet showing network design.
Do you have backups? When was the last backup taken?
Yes. 17 backup tapes that do a full backup on weekends and incremental daily.
Do you have a list of DID's so you know who has what number? Do you know what DID blocks you own? What numbers are available?
Can you be more specific on what a DID is? If you're referring to asset management, yes.
What systems do you have in place to take some of the administrative overhead off yourself?
None yet?

I'm always up to learn more so please continue.

loxleynew

I agree with both sides of the argument here... Basically it sounds like your relationship with them has a timer on it and wether you accept the offer or not, you are gone soon. Management doesn't like to be questioned and forced into decisions. Guaranteed they are looking to fire you as soon as someone else comes along. Unless I haven't read the entire story.

You should:
a) take the pay increase for what short time you get it
b) work on whatever you want to improve your resume. You said they are computer illiterate right? Then you can basically pick and choose your projects that you want to accomplish fast. Learn servers/network asap and put on resume.
c) brush up resume after learning about 2-3 things and then in 3 months apply for jobs.

Don't think of it right now as getting "low balled". You have been for over 1.5 years. Think of it as getting a chance to study in a real life lab for a few months until you find other jobs. At this point you can move past desktop support and go straight into sys/network/sec admin. This is a golden opportunity here don't waste it. If they pay for certs too even better! get one a month.

rsxwithslicks

Also there is a possibility the offer is off the table but I wouldn't mind learning as much as possible while I can even if its just to benefit future me.

And they definitely don't pay even partial reimbursement for certs/schooling.

Disgruntled3lf

RouteMyPacket seems to be giving good advice. I'd take the raise, orient myself in my environment, then proceed to make it awesome. You've got 1.5 years experience with an opportunity to be, essentially, an autonomous entity within your organization. You were working/living on that wage before so just maintain your current lifestyle and put the extra (math goes here) a year into certs/training/school etc. Then in (some unit of time) bounce out of their with a resume that now includes descriptions of how you improved this environment, sweet new tech you worked on, and managers (read references) behind you singing your praises. And that's ignoring the extra letters after your name. And DID is a direct line or just a number (VOIP) that your company has.

RouteMyPacket

rsxwithslicks wrote: »

You said you have worked there for some time, so I am sure you have all documentation created and verified as accurate yes? I'm guessing it's not documented, so make that priority number one. How can you manage and or improve that which you don't even know exists etc.?
I do have it documented.

Ok, so if I come to you and ask a question on a system, something like what services are running on Server A. Do you have to login to the server to check or have you documented that so a quick click and you can provide an answer? You should never have to login to something to know what is there, it should be documented. What if the server goes down, can't login to it to find out what was on there eh?


How many servers do you have? Do you know what each one does? What function it "serves"? Can you quickly pull a document to answer any questions asked about them?

16/ I have a pretty good idea/ pull a document?

Having a "Pretty good idea" doesn't cut it. Yes, pull a document. It is your job to have the entire environment documented. Would you prefer to take calls at all hours of the day and night and on weekends to answer basic questions or simply have a document available to those who need it? I never let anyone ask me more than once "Hey, where is bla bla"...my response "pull the doc". Again, another means of lowering your overhead.

How many Routers, Switches, Firewalls do you have? Do you know how your network is designed? Can you login to them, make changes etc? Who has access and to what?

4 routers/6 switches/1 firewall. I can login to them. I have a sheet showing network design.

Ok, can you tell me their location, model, IP, serial number, sw versions etc? Or do you need to login to check?

Do you have backups? When was the last backup taken?

Yes. 17 backup tapes that do a full backup on weekends and incremental daily.

Ok, what product are you using? BackupExec? version? Do you have support should you need it? Remember, in your shoes you cannot be a master of everything. You need to know when and who to reach out to should you need support.

Do you have a list of DID's so you know who has what number? Do you know what DID blocks you own? What numbers are available?

Can you be more specific on what a DID is? If you're referring to asset management, yes.

You mentioned having to manage telecom, DID would be our Direct Inward Dial numbers (phone numbers) and DID blocks assigned to your company by your provider. What kind of Voice are you using? VoIP? What vendor? Do you have support? If I ask, how will you answer?

What systems do you have in place to take some of the administrative overhead off yourself?
None yet?

Ouch, so you have no means to be proactive and instead have been relegated to being 100% reactive. Your goal should be to know of an issue before any end user. You need to get eyes into your environment ASAP. This would be a "High" priority item on the project spreadsheet I previously mentioned.

You need to have eyes on the Event Viewers of your Servers from one location (Dashboard) instead of logging into each server and looking, which most admins never do. This way, you can see weird events and then begin looking into them instead of learning of it as a server goes down or a service crashes.

PM me if you like, I can come up with a few quick ideas for you.

NotHackingYou

To answer your question more succinctly - yes, I think you are wrong. Sometimes you are paid in cash. Sometimes, you are paid in knowledge. You're getting a great break here insomuch as you will be getting paid a handsome increase along with an outstanding opportunity to learn. Even if you got a slightly higher wage somewhere else, you probably wouldn't get such a career building opportunity.

My advice to you is to take their offer for pay and do everything you can to improve the systems there. Never forget that with every system, process or procedure that you improve for them you are also improving yourself.

You can still turn this situation into a win-win. The last piece of advice I have for you is stay off salary guide websites. I have never found them to be particularly accurate.

Best of luck with whatever you decide.

Rkdrummer20

Read lot of interesting comments!

Well there are some questions that you may ask yourself;

1. It is said that in smaller organizations one gets well and more rounded experience especially early in career. So, if you were to prepare your resume what are the 5 things you can mention as your achievements.
2. Never leave your organization in bad taste - IT is a small World and you are sure to rub shoulders.
3. Have you been able to pull your time and effort together and add some qualifications or certifications - this should be done irrespective of your current or future organization.
4. Take at least 1-2 employees in confidence and request them to mark your accomplishments on linkedin etc.
5. To sum up prepare yourself well for the next important move - do not bother much about the past.

Verities

rsxwithslicks wrote: »

You must of misread it again as they haven't confided in me that they're hiring any additional IT personnel. They posted up the job on Indeed a few Fridays ago and immediately deleted the posting the following Monday. What was weird is that they didn't post the company site, nor on CareerBuilder and Monster like the normal job postings from the company. I found out that they've been directly contacting resumes on job boards while going through our spam filter.
And the person who's most qualified to hire any IT personnel would be me as everyone here is computer illiterate. Though no mention to me about it even when I directly asked if they were looking for any IT positions to fill whether IT Manager or Desktop Support.

No need to get snippy, I'm trying to give you guidance. I said tell them you want in on the hiring process. You obviously need people since you can't run this show yourself, but you should let your management know. I'm not going to lay out how you should do that since you need to learn for yourself.

yeah yeah

Verities wrote: »

From my perspective you have a prime opportunity to really catapult your career upward and in a very fast manner. I agree with RouteMyPacket; take the pay raise they offered you, get working on those certs, and get that place fixed up. Do NOT be afraid to delegate work to your subordinates, but make sure you're laying the work down on competent folks. Not every company you'll work for is full of unicorns and rainbows.

Agreed. Take the raise. Either way, you're still going to have to do majority of the IT Manager's work anyway. Might as well get a couple of extra dollars doing it. Since you're still new to the game, take full advantage of the opportunity. I notice a lot of people don't take the initiative as much anymore. Treat it like your baby, and do things you way. Build you skills. This is the perfect environment to do so. In other shops, it's difficult to get hands-on with all facets of IT. Some may do desktop, some may do basic server operations, but not a mix of all. Looks like you have a full sandbox to play in. Take advantage, build your skills and confidence, then put your resume out there.

Jon_Cisco

markulous wrote: »

I'd smile and do what they wanted me to at this point but I'd be pumping out resumes. Let them lowball someone else.

I think this is a much better approach then fighting them over responsibilities. In most places once you have declined to do a job your not likely to ever get the option again. Learn what you can and prepare to move on. Wish them luck when you go because nothing is gained by leaving on bad terms other then satisfying a desire to screw them which has nothing to do with your professional career.

Good Luck!

rsxwithslicks

No need to get snippy, I'm trying to give you guidance. I said tell them you want in on the hiring process. You obviously need people since you can't run this show yourself, but you should let your management know. I'm not going to lay out how you should do that since you need to learn for yourself.

I apologize. That was not my intent but sometimes the monotype on the internet can come across as such.

I really appreciate everyone's feedback. Thank you.

Verities

rsxwithslicks wrote: »

I apologize. That was not my intent but sometimes the monotype on the internet can come across as such.

I really appreciate everyone's feedback. Thank you.

All good in this hood. Good luck RSX!

rsutton

While it sounds like there may be some poor management at your company, I will give you my take on what you are doing.

First, you should never, ever, tell management that something is "not your job" - I don't know if that is how you worded it, but that is how I took it. Refusing to train someone because you were not properly trained is a poor excuse, in my opinion, to not do what is requested of you. It does sound like there are faults on both sides of the table but I am giving you my take on what is in your power to change; or as Dale Carnegie would say, your "circle of influence".

IIIMaster

rsxwithslicks wrote: »

I've been sending out my resume and realize there's no future here. Considering they've completely stopped looking for an IT manager and instead looking for someone to take my position, would it be considered unprofessional to not train the new hire on the IT manager's tasks? I was not trained in anyway. Just left a word doc with admin accounts/passwords and a diagram showing the network.



I do not have a degree. I've been trying to study to gain some certifications but limited time prevents me from attending school at the moment. I handle the meetings and relationships well as I've been a general manager of a small business for over 5 years and understand customer/business relations/service quite well.



Haha. I should asked for an additional 150k lol. I get paid $17 per hour ($35,360 annual) and felt that $32 per hour ($66,560 annual) would be fair considering that I don't have the "ideal" amount of education/experience. They offered me $24.50 ($50,960 annual) with the condition of being under review and after I get my A+, Network+, Security+, CCENT/CCNA, and MCSA certifications, we can "discuss" me getting the additional $7.5 per hour I was asking up front. Considering no one has gotten a raise in over 5 years and most people have told me that they get paid less than they did when they first started working here, it would be foolish to believe them. I might get the review but doubt I would get the pay.

Furthermore they wanted me to stop doing OT completely. I explained that doing all the desktop support for the company (3 locations and about 175 users) on top of dealing with vendors, tending to all the servers, and researching the procurement of new IT equipment, fixing phones, tending to network issues, etc is not something that can really be done in 8 hours a day. Just putting out the fires since the IT manager left has cause me to go from 8 hour days to average between 10-12-15 hour days every day. I'm sure if I gave them my personal number, they would be calling me through the night as well. Lol.

It makes sense now. They want to pay but feel as if you do not have the proper credentials. The raise is fair but they would like you to become certified. But you did state they will review your peformance down the road for the additional $7 hourly you require. So maybe they will give you 3 of the 7 you ask at the least? What you need to do is this have everything in writing as to what they will pay and how you will be evaluated. Also request 1 or 2 extra hands to work under you. That will reduce your over time. I do not feel as if your company is low balling you but I do feel if you take action and fairly negotiate you will lose your upper hand as they could find someone to work the job and have you as the hired hand.