is 100k enough?

Anyone from the Maryland, Washington, Virginia area...

Is 100k per year enough to have a decent lifestyle with a small family?

I have no idea other than everything and everyone saying the cost of living is high?

I would like a house or townhouse with about 1800 to 2000 sq ft. Rent/Own either

It would be around the ft meade area...

Any advice would help, thanks!

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Cyberscum

Chnged it, you are right. 1520 was already calculated into the loan payment.

Cyberscum

bhcs2014 wrote: »

Ok dude I read your post a few times and didn't get why you added the 1.5k. I guess I'll understand when I take out my first home loan lol

I honestly don’t think I will buy a home again. We have one and will rent it out until it is paid off, rent in the meantime and move back in when the loan is done. Most homes have turned into bad investments and who knows when the housing market will turn around.

bhcs2014

Cyberscum wrote: »

I honestly don’t think I will buy a home again. We have one and will rent it out until it is paid off, rent in the meantime and move back in when the loan is done. Most homes have turned into bad investments and who knows when the housing market will turn around.

That seems like a smart idea. My plan is to keeping renting apartments until I can buy a home outright.

Once I get more experience and certs under my belt I might move to somewhere like DMV and keep living below my means and save as much as possible. The salaries and job market in my area (Philadelphia) seem to be pretty darn good though and the cost of living isn't bad, I have an okay 1 BR apartment at only 700 a month.

From what I read on here areas like Atlanta, Dallas, Austin, etc. might be the best as far as pay vs. cost of living. But it's all a numbers game really, just gotta do the math and see which is best for you.

Cyberscum

Darn good thinkin! Save a ton in interest. I guess I could always move back in with my Mom...She would love that

ramrunner800

bhcs2014 wrote: »

Maybe I am just young and ignorant but I am able to get by and even save a little with my 40k a year.

You might be onto something there. If you're in the DC area making 40k you probably can't even live by yourself, let alone support 3 other people. As previously posted, in this area, that is an average income, at best. It's prolly enough for the OP, but it certainly isn't the ton of money it sounds like. It's good that you can get by on nothing though.

Mishra

bhcs2014 wrote: »

How did you come up with 55k?

You say to keep the same real estate quality you would have to pay an extra 400k in interest, right?

Say that was over a 15 year period you had to pay an extra 400k:

400k/15 = 26.6k . So how did you come up with 55k? Sorry if I am misunderstanding here

30 year PITI+HOA (Principal, Interest, Taxes, Insurance) and subtracting federal/state/other taxes

1114236/30 = 37141.2 * 1.35 = 50140.62 in total salary

apr911

Hi Cyberscum,

I grew up in Philadelphia, have made the commute to/from DC and Baltimore on many occasions and recently considered taking a job posting out that way.

Based on my experience and the research I did while considering the job posting, I would say you can probably manage on 100k just fine. Im single and Im still considering making the move to Ft. Meade area at what would be a huge paycut for me down to 70k.

If the job is in the "suburbs" south of Baltimore and North of DC I would recommend finding some place between DC/Baltimore, the closer to the job the better. Although you're going to pay the price in rent for it, as someone else has already said, the commutes in that area will eat you alive and to me an extra hour or more a day 5 days a week make it worth it to live closer.

Supposedly its a 2 hour drive from where I lived in PA to the the area between the DC/Baltimore (i.e. Fort Meade, Gaithersburg, Annapolis) and no matter what time I leave, I have yet to make that trip in less than 3 hours and most of that extra hour is spent sitting in the Baltimore/DC metro area traffic at non-rush hour times.

I once had a 10am interview in Gaithersburg that I thought for certain if I left at 6:30 I would make with time to spare to grab some breakfast. I made it to Baltimore slightly delayed at 2 hours (google maps normally estimates 1.5 hours for the ~80 mile trip) and proceeded to take another 2 hours to go the remaining 40 miles through Baltimore to Gaithersburg.

If the position is in Baltimore, there are plenty of places to the north that are easy commutes and if the position is in DC, you have more options.
You can look North in Maryland. There's good mass transit into the city in some of the locales surrounding DC... Pretty much anywhere inside the 495-beltway in Maryland has a good bet of having close mass transit but you'll pay beltway prices for it... The red line does go as far as Wheaton/Glenmont and Rockville/Shady Grove

Personally, Id look to the west of the city as you can still get mass transit trains into the city from there and your taxes are likely to be less in Virginia. Virginia has a top income tax of 5.75% as where all counties in Maryland have a county income tax between 1.25-3.20% on top of the 4.75% state rate and the 1.25% special non-resident additional tax if you dont change your residency to Maryland (Maryland also has an income tax brackets at 5%, 5.25%, 5.5% and 5.75% but they wouldnt apply to your income of 100k though the 5% might if you make $100,001 and aren't married but you said family so I assume you are).

Baltimore isnt a bad city but its not the best either. There are good areas and bad areas like any other city but the number of bad or not-so-good areas seems to be greater than the good, especially when it comes to crime and to live in the few good areas of town, well you pay a premium (and a few blocks in the wrong direction could take you into a not so good area). In my experience, I've found Baltimore to definitely be a working port city consisting of a lot of blue-collar jobs (Wikipedia says low paying service jobs). Its definitely a more depressed city, Wikipedia says 25% of the city population is below the poverty line...

Bottom line, in the short term (1 year), 100k is definitely doable and from there you'll need to evaluate what is or isnt working for you and how you proceed from there.

You'll probably need to stretch a bit in that first year... Its hard to find a place that meets the trifecta of being in a good area, an inexpensive area and an area that you want to live in without a little luck/searching and first having spent some time in the area. So to get the good area that you want to live in you'll have to be prepared to pay the price to start. After a year, you'll have a much better feel for the area (what's good, what's not) be able to research different living scenarios in depth and make a better determination on how doable remaining in the area is in the long term. But hey, sometimes you get lucky and find everything you want in the area and price on the first try so maybe not...

The best we can do is give you some advice, its up to you to determine if its something you can make work... I took a 40-50% pay increase to move from San Antonio, TX to Carlsbad, CA because thats what every person and cost of living calculator told me to expect to need to maintain standard of living. Im not really struggling but I have cut back on a few things due to much higher costs. To move to the Gaithersburg area, the cost of living calculators and people Ive talked to all suggest Id need to make the same amount I do now in CA. Still though, Im considering a 50+% paycut to make that move. I know it'll be tough and Ill have to cut back a lot of things but its a gamble I think would pay off in the long run so Im willing to do what's necessary to make it work.

apr911

This post is a digression from the OPs question. I apologize to the members of this board for the digression and I apologize to Hurricane1091 for seemingly singling you out as others have made similar comments in this thread but you unfortunately made them first... you and some others have said some things that I felt not only didnt contribute to the conversation but also placed a negative slant to the conversation while managing malign many people struggling to make ends meet while making 100k or more.

While it is true that those of us fortunate enough to be making 102k (as of 2011) or more can count ourselves in the top 20% of household incomes in this country, its not unfathomable to still struggle to make ends meet and to paint us all as well off you'd have to use a very wide brush.

Its not your fault though, I blame our media that suggests Monica & Rachel of Friends could work part time as a waitress and chef and still afford a huge apartment in the city... Or for a newer reference, look at the living situation of Max/Caroline in 2 Broke Girls and tell me how broke they are...

Our politicians dont help when they try lump all 320+ million people in a country covering 3.8 million square miles and 6 major time zones together (Even excluding Alaska, we are nearly 2x the size of all 28 member NATIONS of the European Union) and then set tax (and others) policies based on the overall demographic. Congress is fully aware of the differences in cost of living (I was offered a GS position in DC that per GS standards had a specific pay band for Grade and Step but per law also had a cost of living stipend/allowance/increase) yet they'd like us all to believe cost of living doesnt exist when it comes to taxes or rousing their voter because its easier, more expedient and makes for better sound bites.

But anyway back to your comments:

hurricane1091 wrote: »

If you can't live on $100k you need to hire a financial counselor.

While I do agree there is a certain point where I question you're ability to live on your own without a financial intervention and someone to manage your finances for you, 100K is far from it. There are so many things that play into this equation such as location, size of family, number of earners, lifestyle, hobbies and future planning.

New York City comes to mind as an example of location, 100k does not stretch far if you are living in the city, especially after the state AND city takes their cut of your salary. If you are fortunate enough to find something you could afford to buy (NYC places can easily surpass 1+M), the property taxes are through the roof and renting, well Ive rented entire houses for less money than many STUDIO apartments rent for in town. Thats not to say there aren't affordable places to rent in the city but they are less common.

Family size and number of earners comes into mind. A family of 4 living on 100k lives more comfortably than a family of 6 and a single earner making 100k will likely feel more financial strain than 2 earners, thats just simple math.

Hobbies, lifestyle and future planning play their part too. If you're the type with expensive hobbies or even just feel life is to be lived, there is a good chance 100k wont stretch as far especially if you have a lifestyle that also requires constant upkeep (the latest and greatest TVs, cars, etc). Which brings future planning into play... I now contribute the maximum ($17,500) to my 401k but it wasnt until I broke the 6 figure mark that I felt financially secure enough to put that much away and since Im still young, its the first place Im going to look to if I find myself in a situation that requires additional cash flow (i.e. sudden debts incurred for medical, business, familial or death reasons).

As a single earner at 100k maxing out a 401k is almost 18% of your pay pre-tax. Together with benefits and taxes (Federal, state & possibly local city), your take home pay is almost certainly less than 50% of total compensation.

I can live on that, even with my expensive hobbies and lifestyle primarily because Im single. I would like to be putting more money away but I still contribute to my rainy day fund (separate from my tax preferred 401k) and I get to live and enjoy my life too. Each person has their own definition of comfortable though. Bottom line, the point at which someone "needs to hire a financial counselor" differs from person to person, family to family, situation to situation.

Now if you made Terrell Owens type money (85M over 15 years) and still found yourself broke like he has, Id say you need a financial counselor, though arguably, he lost most of his money through bad investments not bad spending (A financial counselor/advisor would probably have helped him though by advising him to avoid too much investment in one thing, to diversify and avoid throwing good money after bad money in the hopes of recapturing it in other words, get out when you can).

hurricane1091 wrote: »

You're definitely choosing to live a certain lifestyle. I do want to live like that too but many people live in $150k-$300k houses. $1 million is quite the house.

Again you are looking more at the dollar mark and less at the realities of the world... Ive lived and grew up in the Philadelphia Metro area (West Chester, PA) so I know where you are coming from and I agree, $1M is quite a house in that region but the housing market in that region is also in a very tight band and those houses that fall outside the band tend to be an order of magnitude larger/more glamorous for every 50-100k you spend outside the band.

My parents sold a 3300sq ft/0.38 acre house for 500k, my cousin sold his 1500 sq ft/0.25 acre house for 250k, I bought a townhouse at 2100sq ft and a small fraction of the land for 330k, my friends purchased a house at 2400sq ft and 0.30 acres for 400k and I lived in a hovel of a house in the city that was 2500sq ft and no land that sold for 410k... Sure there are houses in the area that fall below the 250-500k band but they start dropping significantly in size, safety, school and/or neighborhood quality.

Meanwhile, I lived in San Antonio, Texas for almost 5 years and I almost purchased a house there on 2 separate occasions. Both were in nicer neighborhoods, the first was 1500 sqft townhouse with no land but nice tile floors, new kitchen, etc for 120k. The second was a gigantic 3100 sqft on 0.2 acres, done nicely with hardwood and tile (older appliances and cheap counters) for 180k.

Ive recently moved to Carlsbad, California and I pay more in rent (by only a few dollars) for my 1400 sq ft townhouse with no land than I do for the mortgage on my 2100 sq ft townhouse with land back in Pennsylvania (and my mortgage payment includes property taxes, PMI and HOA fees). While I havent really started looking to buy a house, from what I have seen, 500k is the entry point for small houses out here with nicer/larger houses very quickly eclipsing 1+M. There are very few options in the area that go for less and those that do tend to not be in very good/safe neighborhoods and I dont want to own anything in those areas no matter how much cheaper it may be.

So the housing market in/around Philadelphia, PA differs significantly from San Antonio, TX which differs significantly from Carlsbad, CA which I know differs significantly from the DC/Baltimore Metro area seeing as how I had competing offers in DC/Baltimore and Carlsbad so I did some research on both cities.

hurricane1091 wrote: »

I'll be honest, I'm only familiar with NJ real estate. An average home in the southern part of the state is maybe $200k. A nice home, new or brand new, can run you $300-$500k though. I would imagine the upper portion of the state may cost more.

I didn't mean to come off a certain way, I'm just used to growing up in a family where we lived fine and didn't have nearly that much. Of course I want to live much more comfortable though which is why all of us are pretty much on here. If you're the sole income I would still say you would do fine but things like annual trips to Disney world and other luxuries like new cars would need to be planned. I just imagine what $100k would be like for me here in NJ and it would definitely be good (NJ is expensive to live in too) at least in the Philly metro area.

You probably should have started with this. Your first 2 comments not only put a bit of a negative slant on the conversation but they didnt provide much context for your contribution.

Your comment here tells me everything I need to know which really boils down to you dont have any experience with the DC/Baltimore Metro area and you havent really done any research into the area so you aren't really the best qualified sounding board for me, the op or anyone else to receive advise from on living in that area. If I were looking into moving to Southern NJ, you might be a better resource but even that is primarily through 2nd hand experiences.

The problem with basing your judgement on the second hand perspective of "growing up" is your parents likely do/did a lot to shield you from their money situation and it is often times both better and worse than it appears. Part of a parents job is to do their best to shield their children from the realities of the world until they are old enough to handle the information, unfortunately, sex, drugs and rock & roll (or Money in this case) are still very taboo/embarrassing topics in this country that never get the frank discussion they deserve.

WARNING --- Serious digression from topic ahead

And so we have a generation of students coming out of school who've always had everything provided for them and have now amassed tons of student debt and credit card debt not making the 6-figures they thought they would going "Why didnt you warn me? How am I going to pay my rent, utilities, credit cards, student loans, keep my pot collection and buy that shiny new car?" All because we were too afraid to have the frank discussions needed to prevent it.

Its why congress had to go and pass a law curtailing the rights of adults (18+) making it more difficult for those 18-21 to acquire a credit card. And please dont take this as a dig at you... I find myself in the grey area between Gen X and Gen Y (aka Millennials) who hates the millennial stereotype because its a stereotype I have to fight against which often times yields a perception reinforcing the stereotype. Yet despite my own struggles against the stereotype, I cant help but see the stereotypes in some of my peers and wonder what the hell happened to personal responsibility in this country.

End Rant/Digression

Anyway back on topic... This is a good opportunity for you to recognize that what applies in one situation/scenario doesnt apply in all, that context is important if you want to contribute to a conversation in a meaningful way and even though there will no doubt be someone who still takes your comments out of context and complains about it, its still up to you to provide that initial context.

Trust me, its something that took me longer than I care to admit to learn (and I still am learning it) but once you've had a boss or 2 breathing down your neck about a failed project that you said would work, you learn quickly that its important everybody is provided the context under which it will work (ie it'll work under condition XYZ) if for no other reason than so you can later point back to it and say "I said it'll work under condition XYZ were all those conditions met?..."

Finally 2 last bits of advice:
1. Always remember your audience. Yes it is true many on this board are just starting out or are otherwise trying to "live more comfortable" but there are a good number of members on this board who are well established in the industry, may be making 6-figures or more (and still striving higher to "live more comfortable") and we remain on this board to help each other and to lend a helping hand, encouragement, etc to those that follow behind us.

2. Text based-communication (email, text messages, forum posts, etc) is a brilliant way to miscommunicate how you feel and misinterpret what other people mean... The nuances of language (such as sarcasm) just cannot be conveyed in text form. It may not have been your intent to cast aspersions on the manner in which members of this board live their lives but it is the way you came across.

joneno

Great post @apr...every situation is different.

pinkydapimp

Its all going to be relative. I know families living off 40k in the NYC metro area and that is enough. I also know people making over 100k in the same area and they complain about not making enough and arent satisfied. It doesnt matter what other folks tell you. What matters is if its enough for you. Because you could make 200k and people will tell you its not enough. But as long as you're satisfied then its plenty.

I live in NYC metro but can live well below my means. So i was comfortable when i was making 50k even though others would say thats nothing. Its all your perspective.

markulous

When it's all said and done, I think 100k in today's terms will be more than enough for my income. I don't spend much or expect a lavish lifestyle. I also don't need to live in the Hamptons or anywhere else that's ridiculously overpriced. Between that and my wife's income, that will be pretty good in my eyes.

Cyberscum

@Apr911

First off, thank you for a very thorough and concise post. Most of the members on this board provide correct and very helpful responses but there are always a few who feel the need to add their input that has no relative meaning to the post or is just plain incorrect (I am guilty of a few).

I figure I will take the first year and scope the areas out, then make a more solid decision on where we would like to live. One of the factors I did not consider were the varying tax rates in each location. I will definitely have to make a decision and factor in that and other points you make in your post. I am going to take the next few days and look more into Baltimore as I feel this area would give us the most bang for the buck.

Thank you for pointing out the contributions to retirement and other benefits because this is often a cost that people do not consider. I am also trying to catch up on my retirement contributions, so there will be large chunks of money being deducted from my take home. Unfortunately, I am 31 years old already so I have some catching up to do and youth is definitely not on my side like in your case.

….As far as the generation difference section of your post…

I see your point and I agree that there is a very large shift in values between these up and coming generations. But I believe that these differences are more of choice than circumstance in most cases. The reason I say this is because I had a very long conversation with a guy a few weeks ago.

He did not have a job and lived with his parents at 28 years old. While most people would label this guy as a failure, loser, deadbeat he made some very valid points in our conversation.
He looks at all of the people in the world who have jobs they hate. Yet, they feel compelled to continue on going day in and day out until complete exhaustion. They manage to also get deep into debt and end up basically forcing themselves to have to work every day of their lives until they die. He did mention that he was very fortunate to have parents that let him live the lifestyle he has chosen. So as I do agree the younger generation is radically different than prior generations, I feel it is because they are just thinking about their quality of life more in terms of satisfaction rather than societal acceptance.

He is literally waiting out until he finds something that he feels he would like to do for a living to make money. He figures it would be a waste of his time and energy just to have a job and tell his family ”look at me I am making it” but be severely lacking on the inside. He uses his energy to do things like explore talents, hike, travel and make various friends.

Do I think he has got it right? I have no idea, but I do know that there is a small part of me that commends his ability to question the societal norm and make his own path.

Mishra

It's your thread so I will respond off topic:

"While most people would label this guy as a failure, loser, deadbeat he made some very valid points in our conversation."

Everyone's definition of quality is different. I've definitely made comments of people who are wasting their talent. But I typically make those comments when those individuals are complaining about their life. You are a 'failure' if you are very frustrated at your salary, want to make changes in your life, have the talent, and don't do the proper things to use that talent.

When I meet someone that lives in their parents basement and they tell me "I love my life.". I only have a positive response. As long as you are happy then you have made some right decisions.

dave330i

So the guy's been around for 28 years and still clueless on what he wants to do with his life? I don't think he'll ever find it.

UnixGuy

I'm 30 and still haven't figured out what I wanna do.

@Cyberscum, your 28 yrs old friend is a very smart man, wish I had the financial support of parents, I would've done the same.

Cyberscum

dave330i wrote: »

So the guy's been around for 28 years and still clueless on what he wants to do with his life? I don't think he'll ever find it.

Yeah, maybe not. But I honestly dont think he is worried about it. He just does not worry about the things most people do.

@Unix
Ha ha I hear you. He def makes me think about the things I do and the reasons why I do them. Its always interesting talking with him.

dave330i

I feel sorry for the parents. It's tough when a loved one turns into a leach.

aspiringsoul

Cyberscum,

I had to go back and look at your post. Personally, I think that guy makes a good point...there is a saying that retirement is when you stop living at work and start working at living...but I think that it's very possible to find employment in a field that you enjoy and that allows for you to be self-sufficient. What's he going to do after his parents are gone and his inheritance is spent? We're not all born with the luxury of not having to work (although rich people are in some cases).

When I was 26 years old, I was living with my parents, but I was saving money. A year later, I just purchased and moved into my first house, am driving a new car, am paying my own way through WGU MS program, and I have plenty of money in the bank. Now I too am up to my eyeballs in debt and will be working for the next 30 years to pay my debts....but I am self-sufficient!

So, I don't look down on anyone for living with their parents in their late 20s (especially if they are graduate students) depending on their motivations. Living with your parents simply to take advantage of them is not admirable at all though.

aspiringsoul

In response to some of the earlier posts...salaries in Kentucky are far below the national average. It will probably take me well over a decade to ever break that 100k barrier unless I decide to move.

Cyberscum

@ Dave

I don’t know his parents so I can’t really say what they feel about it. All I know is that he is happy living there and I would guess they are fine with him staying ther otherwise they would not let him stay.

@ Asp

You make some great points. I have had similar discussions with him about a career, home, family etc…

The problem is (and I guess it is more my problem with him than his problem) is that he does not see any point in attaining any of these things. I guess he is very happy being able to move freely and without the restrictions of the above. All I know is that there are more and more people out there that are starting to question the norm of things. A lot of why and what I have done was instilled from my parents, I never asked questions, so part of me commends his bravery in asking why and going with what he wants to do.

I had a co-worker from Kentucky and man-o-man he had a nice house with a ton of land for 125k....

apr911

Cyberscum wrote: »

He is literally waiting out until he finds something that he feels he would like to do for a living to make money. He figures it would be a waste of his time and energy just to have a job and tell his family ”look at me I am making it” but be severely lacking on the inside. He uses his energy to do things like explore talents, hike, travel and make various friends.

Do I think he has got it right? I have no idea, but I do know that there is a small part of me that commends his ability to question the societal norm and make his own path.

aspiringsoul wrote: »

I had to go back and look at your post. Personally, I think that guy makes a good point...there is a saying that retirement is when you stop living at work and start working at living...but I think that it's very possible to find employment in a field that you enjoy and that allows for you to be self-sufficient. What's he going to do after his parents are gone and his inheritance is spent? We're not all born with the luxury of not having to work (although rich people are in some cases).

The popular mantra is "Love what you do and you'll never work a day in your life."

I hate that mantra. Sorry but the reality is doing something you love doesnt change the fact its still work and that you still have to answer to someone. At the end of the day, doing something you love has a pretty significant chance of making it something you hate.

Im fortunate in that Ive found a career in a field I truly find interesting and that I enjoy but I used to enjoy it a lot more. You have to look no further than my home lab which has been in the process of being "rebuilt" for 5 years now. I used to love tinkering in my lab and trying new things with it, now I come home and every time I think about working on getting it up and running all I see is work and I dont want to work in my personal time.

The problem I have with your friend (Im 28 too by the way) is that life is about choices and sacrifices. You have to choose to sacrifice your time and some of your happiness so you can make a living and find more happiness. For me? I work so I can do the things I love. I go flying or skydiving or scuba diving or any number of other activities that I enjoy. I can afford to do this because I work and have worked for over 50% of my life now (got my workers permit at 13).

Now everyone's situation is different and aspiringsould makes a good point about graduate students living with their parents, I dont hold that against them. In fact, I encourage them to use the resources available to them in the form of their parents and their parents house vs trying to juggle a job, rent and graduate studies. What bothers me are the "failure to launch" people. Life is what you make of it in my opinion but you need to get out there and live life in order to make it into anything at all.

I didnt say it before but many of the people in the "why didnt you warn me (about the financial realities of the world)?" group I referenced earlier are also those that went to school for degrees with less than stellar results for long term gainful employment and while I can respect that they are trying to make it in the field they wanted, I have a hard time accepting the idea that they didnt know they'd be at a disadvantage or wouldnt be earning 100's of thousands by now.

Most kids want to be astronauts or rockstars or fireman when they grow up. A large percentage of us quickly realize as we grow that we wont make it, and only a small percentage of those that remain actually do make it... Those that didnt check themselves against reality and in the end dont make it have 2 options, they can accept they made a choice that didnt pan out and decide what to do about it (move on or continue to fight for it) or they can absolve themselves of responsibility and say its society's fault for not telling them XYZ.

LeBroke

$500,000 house with 2,000 sq feet? $100,000 jobs considered average? Where is this magical pony fairy tale land where houses cost less than $1M and people make more than $50k?

aspiringsoul

@cyberscum

I just bought my first house for 120k. Three bed, two bath, new paint and carpet in all rooms. Built in 2011. House prices are very affordable in most areas, although rent is very high.

Cyberscum

apr911 wrote: »

The problem I have with your friend (Im 28 too by the way) is that life is about choices and sacrifices. You have to choose to sacrifice your time and some of your happiness so you can make a living and find more happiness. For me? I work so I can do the things I love. I go flying or skydiving or scuba diving or any number of other activities that I enjoy. I can afford to do this because I work and have worked for over 50% of my life now (got my workers permit at 13).

But that is the whole point; he does not see his predicament as a problem. Society does. He is happy participating in the “journey” (as he puts it) of life. I am guessing he is trying to find something he wants to do, he did not actually tell me that, so it may be that this is what he wants to do for a living.

From my view happiness is a very funny thing here in America. Happiness in western civilization is something completely different than happiness in Eastern civilization. One of the startling figures of our culture is the increasing depression rate alongside increasing quality of living figures. Kind of an oxymoron.

I believe happiness is attainable, just not through a career.

UnixGuy

apr911 wrote: »

...
... I used to love tinkering in my lab and trying new things with it, now I come home and every time I think about working on getting it up and running all I see is work and I dont want to work in my personal time.

....

I used to be like you, and then one day I found that I can't stand the sight of a server, and I started dreading the IT industry and the mentalities behind IT managers. It's not an easy position to find yourself in trust me.

Also, I don't see value in owing a big house, fancy cars, or in doing expensive hobbies. My hobby, for one, is dancing in the streets - it's free. Do I really need six figures to do that? People are different, and people change all the time - I know I did!

apr911

Cyberscum wrote: »

But that is the whole point; he does not see his predicament as a problem. Society does. He is happy participating in the “journey” (as he puts it) of life. I am guessing he is trying to find something he wants to do, he did not actually tell me that, so it may be that this is what he wants to do for a living

I suppose your right in that it is society that says its wrong that he isnt doing anything with his life but really what journey is he participating in living at home with his parents? If he was contributing to society, volunteering his time or even just traveling the world Id say good for him but living at home with his parents? I guess as long as his parents are willing to subsidize him and he isnt complaining about his lot in life I dont have an issue with it but the day he comes looking for a government subsidy... Thats a different story.

Here's a timely article in reference to the original question...

The salary you must earn to buy a home in 27 metros

San Antonio is number 18. They estimate a salary of 46k is needed to buy a house with the median value being 186k
Philadelphia is number 14. They estimate a salary of 55k is needed to buy a house with the median value being 231k
Baltimore is number 13. They estimate a salary of 57k is needed to buy a house with the median value being 256k
Washington DC is number 6. They estimate a salary of 82k is needed to buy a house with the median value being 390k
New York City is number 4. They estimate a salary of 93k is needed to buy a house with the median value being 410k
Los Angeles is number 3. They estimate a salary of 96.5k is needed to buy a house with the median value being 482k
San Diego is number 2. They estimate a salary of 102k is needed to buy a house with the median value being 518k
San Francisco is number 1. They estimate a salary of 146k is needed to buy a house with the median value being 745k.

The problem with these salary numbers is they are the "before-tax" income required to cover the mortgage PITI (Principal, interest, tax & insurance), they considered a 20% down payment on the home (so no PMI) and also assume the mortgage payment is 28% of your gross salary and is your only debt and they still dont account for cost of living aspects.

I can tell you my water bill in California (although I use the same amount of water) is 6 times what it was in San Antonio ($40 vs $7
I can tell you my electric bill in California (although I use less electricity since it isnt as hot and I dont have AC) is equal to my highest electric bill in San Antonio which is double my average ($85 vs $40 avg).

Doing the math... for a city like NYC, you need to have 80k in the bank for the downpayment. You'll pay the Federal government 21% of your salary for federal tax, an additional 7.65% for Social Security/Medicare, the state of New York will take 6.1%, the city of New York will take 3.4%, your 401k (if you're maxing it out) will be 18.8% and finally your mortgage will be 28%.

So you have 15% or just short of $1200/month (14000/yr) to cover all other living expenses (utilities, food, clothing, benefits, other debts, savings, fun, etc) to live on in the city of New York which has an 8.875% sales tax.

If you dont have 80k in the bank for the downpayment and only put down 40k (10%) or even 20k (5%) then your PMI will take another 1.5-2% of your paycheck.

Is it doable? Sure. Is it comfortable? Probably not, especially for a family (though my tax numbers are based on a single person with no deductions, no dependents so I guess you would have more). Still there are people who make less than 14,000 year total compensation and they get by I guess. Then again at the end of the day, while you might own your home, have good benefits and be saving good money for retirement, you have less disposable income per year than some people collect in wellfare benefits per year (in NY, a family receiving Temporary Assistance for Needy Families, Medicaid, food stamps, WIC, public housing, utility assistance and free commodities can collect $38,004 in wellfare benefits per year, tax free SRC: NYPost).

stlsmoore

LeBroke wrote: »

$500,000 house with 2,000 sq feet? $100,000 jobs considered average? Where is this magical pony fairy tale land where houses cost less than $1M and people make more than $50k?

Anywhere in the Midwest spare Chicago maybe. My home is close to 2400 sq ft counting the finished basement and a little over 10 years old, cost was $160K.

JGDaily

hurricane1091 wrote: »

If you can't live on $100k you need to hire a financial counselor.

Haha #truth

Xavor

Is it just me, or do I just not want to get into a 30 year loan? I can get a VA loan, and looking in VA at houses I could maybe get a 2 bd, 1 bath townhouse for 180k. The alternative is a hellish drive every day. Bums me out just thinking about owning a home in the DC area.

stlsmoore

Xavor wrote: »

Is it just me, or do I just not want to get into a 30 year loan? I can get a VA loan, and looking in VA at houses I could maybe get a 2 bd, 1 bath townhouse for 180k. The alternative is a hellish drive every day. Bums me out just thinking about owning a home in the DC area.

Yea I hear you on that, I thinking about throwing everything I have at my mortgage to get it paid off in 6-7 years.