How to negotiate the best salary

Techguru365

I think salary negotiation is a very important part of any interview,however a lot of us are scared to really aggressively negotiate the best offer on our own behalf. I would like to hear from you negotiating pros. What are some good techniques, ways to tell if they are able to pay more etc?

dave330i

Give them my based salary requirement at the beginning of the interview process. If they can meet it continue the process. If they can't, stop.

cyberguypr

I hear Sony Pictures employees have a very easy way to compare their salaries


Here are a few tips to get you started:
- The most important is finding to what you are worth. Be clear on what you want to get paid. Be ready to justify your requirements with tangible achievements.
- Learn from a guy here the other day: if you say $70k plus, that means you will take $70k. If you won't take a penny under $75k, then don-t use the 70-80 range
- Do your research and gauge your local market/industry conditions
- Keep in mind that compensation is more than salary. PTO, tuition reimbursement, 401k matching, health benefits, etc. make a big difference
- Personally, I never entertain interviews without knowing at least a pay range. My time is as valuable as the company's
- Some companies are weird about compensation. If they know you are making let's say $50,000 they will be hesitant to go let's say 10% over that, no matter what you bring to the table. One school of thought is to never reveal your current salary therefore forcing the company to determine what you are worth to them. If you are currently underpaid and want to disclose, be ready to explain this and make them understand why you are asking for higher compensation.
- Be flexible and creative. If they are dead set on a number you don't like, try to get more PTO, WFH, or something else to make up for this.

And the best tip you'll ever get:
- Recruiters are the scum of the Earth

networker050184

dave330i wrote: »

Give them my based salary requirement at the beginning of the interview process. If they can meet it continue the process. If they can't, stop.

Pretty much how I go about it. Do your research, know how much you are worth and ask for it. If you don't know a reasonable salary to ask for and rely on them to give the first number you are only hurting yourself and wasting everyone's time.

Techguru365

so, are companies always making an offer expecting you to counter, if not, whats a good indication that they are throwing their best and final offer on the table?

dave330i

Techguru365 wrote: »

so, are companies always making an offer expecting you to counter, if not, whats a good indication that they are throwing their best and final offer on the table?

It doesn't matter what the company is doing. What's important is that you're happy with the offer. I would caution that everyone do their research and find out the competitive rate for the area.

olaHalo

Be upfront before the interview
Only give a range if youre unsure about the what the position details
Ask about other perks like no on-call, vacation, 401 etc. This may cause you to adjust your number

For me the biggest thing for me is no on-call. I will accept huge paycuts for being able to leave work at work

5ekurity

cyberguypr wrote: »

And the best tip you'll ever get:
- Recruiters are the scum of the Earth

I'd be curious to hear your horror stor(y/ies)

Techguru365

What I have been doing recently is; I tell the interviewer I cannot disclose my previous salary due to a confidentiality agreement with the company. worth a shot to try and use a excuse like that

pinkydapimp

I think its important not to mention a number first. If i'm asked, i tell them that whats most important is for me to find the right company and right position. Then i usually ask them, what is the pay range for this position. Don't mention a number until you get an offer. If you are pressed, and i have before just say "i would rather not be pigeonholed into a salary range before i know more about the company and the position."

As said above, know your worth, how much you would settle for and how much you prefer. If your going to counter, be reasonable and be able to explain why you deserve what your asking for. They aren't going to give you an extra 10k just because you asked. And as always if you are going to counter, understand that they may rescind the offer. So make sure you are ok with risking that.

Also, ill add, if you are asked how much you make currently, tell them your total compensation. But include in that number all the perks and benefits of the position. It will allow you to be more flexible(or liberal) with that number. But more importantly its easier to compare apples to apples. For example, if you make 60k, but they pay for home internet, cell phone, company car, and have a bonus, include all that in your calculations.

Nemowolf

Im going to rock the boat here, I would recommend checking out Ramit Sethi's interview tips. Everyone has the right idea that you need to do your homework up front and well before you walk into that interview room but you want them to make the first move so you have the negotiating power.

Example: If you up front ask for 70 but they would have accepted up to 75, what incentive do they have to bump up your offer when you have already said 70?

Ramit would advise that you instead change the focus from money and instead make sure that they know what you can offer, what you expect them to offer with the position and both of you would be happy in the end. If you play your cards right and they drop their number first, you now have the power to ask for more then they are offering or accept their offer as it stands. This is especially important if you can really Wow them with your interview and they low ball you, you set the bar for every other candidate after you and they may just feel the need to have a great candidate at your desired salary.

Keep in mind that in some scenario's, there is no wiggle room such as hiring into the public sector.

Kinet1c

dave330i wrote: »

Give them my based salary requirement at the beginning of the interview process. If they can meet it continue the process. If they can't, stop.

This is what I do too. "I'm currently on €|$|£*0000 and would be looking at €|$|£*0000 if I were to move." Include current benefits too as the last thing you want to do is be out of pocket on your larger salary after you take a cut in benefits.

pinkydapimp

Kinet1c wrote: »

This is what I do too. "I'm currently on €|$|£*0000 and would be looking at €|$|£*0000 if I were to move." Include current benefits too as the last thing you want to do is be out of pocket on your larger salary after you take a cut in benefits.

I would recommend against this. Once you mention your current salary, some employers will use that to cap what they offer you. This might be inhibiting if you are looking to make a big jump.

Nemowolf

I would also advise against using the word "Salary" and instead say "Compensation" as that includes salary and benefits. Again, as i mentioned above that if you drop a number up front that it may be below what they are capped at for your desired position and they feel like its a bargain getting you at your number when you really lost out on thousands.

overthetop

I see you are in the great state of Virginia Techguru, you and me both. I will go off the path for a bit. It is a LARGE number of Military Bases (Veterans With Clearances/Getting out) If not the same even more colleges ESPECIALLY in the 7 Cities. I will say like I have said time and time again its extremely difficult to obtain a job because its so much competition. Whatever skills you have or education someone else has the same if not more, unless you apply for NMCI in Norfolk. With all the schools and military bases every 50miles its hard, trust me. I was born and raised in Virginia so I consider myself a Subject Matter Expert:) If you are in Northern Virginia, it is like Atlanta. Everyone comes to N. Va/DC/Maryland and if you don't have a TS or the occasional Secret you are in a bad bad bad situation. Its so much diversity and ethnic growth in that area than you've ever seen. You see people from around the world in N. VA /DC. You think they came from another country with no experience/education.? No they didn't. In closing if you are tight on money I wouldn't follow any of the above, if you aren't tight on money follow all of the above. Like I mentioned in another post the guy on my team had to literally call and beg for the job because he was trying to negotiate and asking for figures and they said have a nice day kick rocks. (not in those words) then when those bills were sitting on the table and the credit card was maxed he called them back a few days later.#fact

dave330i

Nemowolf wrote: »

I would also advise against using the word "Salary" and instead say "Compensation" as that includes salary and benefits. Again, as i mentioned above that if you drop a number up front that it may be below what they are capped at for your desired position and they feel like its a bargain getting you at your number when you really lost out on thousands.

Benefits don't pay the bills.

210mike

cyberguypr wrote: »

I hear Sony Pictures employees have a very easy way to compare their salaries


Here are a few tips to get you started:
- The most important is finding to what you are worth. Be clear on what you want to get paid. Be ready to justify your requirements with tangible achievements.
- Learn from a guy here the other day: if you say $70k plus, that means you will take $70k. If you won't take a penny under $75k, then don-t use the 70-80 range
- Do your research and gauge your local market/industry conditions
- Keep in mind that compensation is more than salary. PTO, tuition reimbursement, 401k matching, health benefits, etc. make a big difference
- Personally, I never entertain interviews without knowing at least a pay range. My time is as valuable as the company's
- Some companies are weird about compensation. If they know you are making let's say $50,000 they will be hesitant to go let's say 10% over that, no matter what you bring to the table. One school of thought is to never reveal your current salary therefore forcing the company to determine what you are worth to them. If you are currently underpaid and want to disclose, be ready to explain this and make them understand why you are asking for higher compensation.
- Be flexible and creative. If they are dead set on a number you don't like, try to get more PTO, WFH, or something else to make up for this.

And the best tip you'll ever get:
- Recruiters are the scum of the Earth

This is one of the best responses I've seen to this question.

I always use the line "I prefer to look at the overall compensation package rather than focus on just cash salary". Some people all they care about is cash. I do not. I care about working environment, equipment, PTO, 401K match and health insurance. You need a PPO if you want me to work for you, Mikey doesn't do HDHP or HMO's.

If you want to give me 2 weeks vacation, I'll need extra cash to make up for it. I like to explain it by visualizing a scale. You load up all the bullcrap on one side. Crappy vacation/benefits/work environment etc. Now you start adding money to the other side of the scale until the money well outweighs the crap. Well the more crap, the more money needs to be added. Less crap, less money.

I haven't looked for a job in a few years though, I honestly have it so good at my current company I wouldn't walk away for anything less than 6 figures and a minimum of 3 weeks vacation. That's not going to happen, so here I happily stay.

pinkydapimp

dave330i wrote: »

Benefits don't pay the bills.

Sometimes they do. At my last job i had great benefits, so my salary was not a good indication of what i made. So like Nemowolf said, when asked my salary, i told them my total compensation which added 15k to the salary after calculations(granted i had a company car, they paid for my cell phone, home internet and other perks).

So i would agree, always talk compensation.

Kinet1c

pinkydapimp wrote: »

I would recommend against this. Once you mention your current salary, some employers will use that to cap what they offer you. This might be inhibiting if you are looking to make a big jump.

It doesn't really matter to me if they know my current salary, if I rock the hell out of an interview and they come looking for me to join, they know before the whole process begins what my expectations are. I've not laid it out before and it didn't go well. I know lay my cards out in terms of what my expectations are and tell recruiters that I don't want them to waste their time if both sides are not on the same page. Most respect that and for those that are unwilling to discuss salary at an early stage then I don't take the conversation any further.

Techguru365

overthetop wrote: »

I see you are in the great state of Virginia Techguru, you and me both. I will go off the path for a bit. It is a LARGE number of Military Bases (Veterans With Clearances/Getting out) If not the same even more colleges ESPECIALLY in the 7 Cities. I will say like I have said time and time again its extremely difficult to obtain a job because its so much competition. Whatever skills you have or education someone else has the same if not more, unless you apply for NMCI in Norfolk. With all the schools and military bases every 50miles its hard, trust me. I was born and raised in Virginia so I consider myself a Subject Matter Expert:) If you are in Northern Virginia, it is like Atlanta. Everyone comes to N. Va/DC/Maryland and if you don't have a TS or the occasional Secret you are in a bad bad bad situation. Its so much diversity and ethnic growth in that area than you've ever seen. You see people from around the world in N. VA /DC. You think they came from another country with no experience/education.? No they didn't. In closing if you are tight on money I wouldn't follow any of the above, if you aren't tight on money follow all of the above. Like I mentioned in another post the guy on my team had to literally call and beg for the job because he was trying to negotiate and asking for figures and they said have a nice day kick rocks. (not in those words) then when those bills were sitting on the table and the credit card was maxed he called them back a few days later.#fact

Yes the great state of VA. your assessment is spot on though. most of the jobs are asking for some type of clearance. I live in the Richmond area, and its starting to take off more, but nothing close to the NOVA area. Lots of data centers popping up in the area, but you can only gain so much experience working in a datacenter.

Nemowolf

Kinet1c wrote: »

It doesn't really matter to me if they know my current salary, if I rock the hell out of an interview and they come looking for me to join, they know before the whole process begins what my expectations are. I've not laid it out before and it didn't go well. I know lay my cards out in terms of what my expectations are and tell recruiters that I don't want them to waste their time if both sides are not on the same page. Most respect that and for those that are unwilling to discuss salary at an early stage then I don't take the conversation any further.

Its a different issue when dealing with a recruiter because you are not dealing with the company directly. I did not intend on this advise for use when dealing with recruiters with one exception and that is if you REALLY want to work with the company.

Adding to what Pinky added, benefits don't pay the bill but when you have a cell phone paid for, bill reimbursement for internet and a company car then perhaps taking 70k instead of the 75k you wanted would end up being more to your advantage. Additionally ...


When negotiating, if the money becomes a sticking point then ask for alternative compensation such as 2 weeks of vacation credited to you up front. Walking away from a job knowing that you have 2+ weeks of vacation to get cashed out at the end of the day might be a nice safety net to bridging the gap between what they are offering an what you wanted.

Techguru365

Whats a good reliable source for finding the current market rate for different IT positions?

pinkydapimp

Techguru365 wrote: »

Whats a good reliable source for finding the current market rate for different IT positions?

Glassdoor, job boards that have listed salaries.

dave330i

pinkydapimp wrote: »

Sometimes they do. At my last job i had great benefits, so my salary was not a good indication of what i made. So like Nemowolf said, when asked my salary, i told them my total compensation which added 15k to the salary after calculations(granted i had a company car, they paid for my cell phone, home internet and other perks).

So i would agree, always talk compensation.

Unless it's spelled out in the offer letter, benefits are at the mercy of upper management's whim.

pinkydapimp

dave330i wrote: »

Unless it's spelled out in the offer letter, benefits are at the mercy of upper management's whim.

right, but they should still factor into your negotiation. For example, my previous job had tuition reimbursement, but the new job didnt. You can use that to have them bump up your base to cover that for example.

N2IT

dave330i wrote: »

Give them my based salary requirement at the beginning of the interview process. If they can meet it continue the process. If they can't, stop.

This is my strategy. Time is money and interviewing 3 times to find out they only pay x when you want y is incredibly wasteful.

John-John

I was lazy. I just went to Salary Search | Indeed.com put in my job title and city and boom. I took the number that looked good. I must have hit it on the head because that is what they gave me. And I think it was fair. This is for my first position in IT though. I know my colleagues are getting paid more because they talk, so moving forward I will negotiate based on what I hear around the water cooler. I will end up knowing everyone's education level and experience through time and learn what things (skills, certs) are worth.

Techguru365

If you can get into the actual interview and be offered the position, for me that would be a more comfortable point to hit them with a number. Alot of these places are trying to force a number out of you in the pre-interview call. Most times, I have applied to so many jobs, I am not even sure which company rep I am on the line with, much less to be ready to drop a number. But I guess thats one of their tactic, try and catch you off guard and squeeze a low number out of you.

dave330i

Techguru365 wrote: »

If you can get into the actual interview and be offered the position, for me that would be a more comfortable point to hit them with a number. Alot of these places are trying to force a number out of you in the pre-interview call. Most times, I have applied to so many jobs, I am not even sure which company rep I am on the line with, much less to be ready to drop a number. But I guess thats one of their tactic, try and catch you off guard and squeeze a low number out of you.

Read post #26 as to why your strategy is bad.

Techguru365

dave330i wrote: »

Read post #26 as to why your strategy is bad.

I do get that. However, I dont currently have a set figure in my head as to what I feel I am worth. I am more of th.e mindset that I want the most I can get for the particular position. Thats why I asked earlier about a good resource for finding current market rates. I know alot of the senior guys might be able to stick out and say; I am worth X or Y, I dont feel like I am there yet lol

Nemowolf

Techguru365 wrote: »

I do get that. However, I dont currently have a set figure in my head as to what I feel I am worth. I am more of th.e mindset that I want the most I can get for the particular position. Thats why I asked earlier about a good resource for finding current market rates. I know alot of the senior guys might be able to stick out and say; I am worth X or Y, I dont feel like I am there yet lol

Well if you don't know what your worth, how do you get any sort of comfort in making X amount? If Indeed or Glass Door say your title is worth that amount then it is okay to ask for or get offered that amount? Thats ALL you do for research into the company? Do you take into account the industry, performance of the company, if public then its shareholders report and expected earnings for the year, etc?

Your selling yourself short but not evaluating yourself as a candidate and will end up settling for anything because someone else said its a good number. Until you figure out your value, your never going to be really happy with a number. Once you THINK you make the right amount someone will tell you that they make 5k more and your going to be depressed again.