Finding a job without a bachelors

Murph2390

New to this site... I've been doing a bit of research and am not finding very consistent answers. but I have a pretty long list of experience in just about anything computer related for how young I am but recently decided to start getting all my certifications. To give you an idea of this in the last 2 weeks I've passed CompTIA A+, Net+, Security+ and CCENT routing and switching.

Mainly what I would like to know is how competitive my resume would be matched up against someone with just 1 or 2 certs and a bachelors? The plan is to go for CCNA/CCDP and MCSE server 2013 then look for an entry level job for the experience. So what could I expect for a possible job outlook.

Also which other certs would compliment the cisco and microsoft ones?

Arod95

Hey Murph I'm in the same situation as you right now. Currently I'm working towards an AS in Network Engineering, but I have all these certs, and two months worth in experience in the field. What I would suggest is either look on sites like internships.com, or where I found the current gig I have an interview for next week Craigslist. I checked craigslist everyday for the past few months, and finally found a job looking for students or recent graduates. So try to get some field experience through internships, and volunteering. But either way don't stop learning, but eventually no matter how many certs you get it's not going to matter if you don't have experience, or a degree.

H3||scr3am

I have no degree, but 5 years of experience in a SOC, and all of these certifications, and am finding it really difficult to get interviews/past the screenings. That being said I have had some interviews, and luck, but I'm still holding out for a reasonable offer. I start my WGU Bachelors in March.

anhtran35

I understand the FRUSTRATION you guys are going through. There are few things to take into account. Most important? LOCATIONNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN. Location is everything. When I live in Baltimore. I couldn't find a high paying job for months. I immediately relocated to DC/VA. I get a job within that week that paid triple what I was making previously. Contributing factor was the High Cost of Living in DC/VA. However, IT is booming where I live and will continue to do so because of the various government agencies( CIA, DOS, DOD, NSA, FBI etc ). Along with that we have some profit companies Google, AOL, Hilton, etc...So a major IT city is where you need to go to if you are looking to excel at IT. The other question is education, experience and certification. This is what Hiring Managers look at:Experience > Certification > EducationI know guys that have a degree in Physical Education/Communication/etc but switch to be IT guys. They got experience in help desk for a few years. During that time period they study and passed IT certifications. Then got move up to the mid level positions. Eventually senior level positions. Then management etc...so the question is degree? I have seen people with NO degree or just an ASSOCIATE become engineers making 100k just due to their experience and certifications. So is it necessary to get a BS? No. Is it good to have? Yes if you want to be a manager or director in the future. If I was you guys I would find a job that has tuition reimbursement. Then finish your degree.

Jon_Cisco

Murph2390 wrote: »

New to this site... I've been doing a bit of research and am not finding very consistent answers. but I have a pretty long list of experience in just about anything computer related for how young I am but recently decided to start getting all my certifications. To give you an idea of this in the last 2 weeks I've passed CompTIA A+, Net+, Security+ and CCENT routing and switching. Mainly what I would like to know is how competitive my resume would be matched up against someone with just 1 or 2 certs and a bachelors? The plan is to go for CCNA/CCDP and MCSE server 2013 then look for an entry level job for the experience. So what could I expect for a possible job outlook. Also which other certs would compliment the cisco and microsoft ones?

Without knowing the pretty long list of experience it's hard to understand why your planning on getting something entry level after you get your ccnp and mcse. I must assume you are currently employed in a good job and you are just timing your career change otherwise you might as well get an entry level position now. The degree question is like debating politics. Some people will defend the need to have one and others will say you don't need them.

Xavor

Without knowing your experience, you can work with a recruiter or temp. agency to find an entry level position with your certifications. Once you prove yourself you can be moved internally to more senior roles, but it's a slower climb.

Get a job now and work on the CCNA or MCSE while you're employed.

I know several team leads in my area who only have an Associates, but they started low and worked up the ranks over a decade of hard work. The BS gets you past HR and management barriers faster for corporate jobs.

fuz1on

You can get into a position but you'll always make less than someone with a degree or more experience. Also, upward mobility is seriously hindered unless you're in a SMB. You'll probably only be able to be promoted to team lead unless your work is transformative. Look at it this way, everyone where you want to be has a college degree.

*edit* This is actually what happened to me - I worked hard as a contractor and secured a full-time position but my starting salary was substantially lower than those with degrees and then it was by experience. The bleak future at that company is really something that spurned me to continue my education. I realized I had no chance to ever move into more senior positions unless I challenged myself.

VAHokie56

Degree wont hurt you but its not a must have to the extent the post above mine made it out to be...I work for a large finical company and I have no IT related degree. I make more than people who have them and also hold a Senior position and can be on a management track should I want to be. Now I am not saying my situation is the norm nor am I saying what fuz1on posted is the norm, its all circumstantial to your situation but don't feel like you HAVE to have a degree to stay on par with your peers that is just not true.

On another note tho... college is fun as hell and you make friends that will last forever there so keep that in mind

Murph2390

I live in rural iowa and have a pretty good job that even when im at work i have tons of time to study. So im just getting certs in prep for a career move to a bigger city. Looking for part time jobs or an internship just for the experience. So jon pretty much nailed my situation dead on. Surprisingly im pretty close to my AS just from proficiency and high school class credits.

kohr-ah

You can do just fine with out one but you will have a hard time getting your foot in the door compared to someone with one. Not because you don't have the technical skills but because the people who filter us out (hr) it is a check box on their list.

My co-worker had no college degree and he is just doing fine fnding work and getting paid well. I have an associates in computer internetworking technologies and it has helped me meet the needs of college requirements for jobs.

College isn't for everyone but it does help. I am not a fan of let's drive ourselves in insane college debt but I did my AAS at the community college at night.

It won't hold you back not having one but you will have to work harder at first to get where you want to be.

Murph2390

Yeah, the whole college concept drives me nuts. Should have to take required classes that have nothing to do with your area of study.

networker050184

fuz1on wrote: »

You can get into a position but you'll always make less than someone with a degree or more experience. Also, upward mobility is seriously hindered unless you're in a SMB. You'll probably only be able to be promoted to team lead unless your work is transformative. Look at it this way, everyone where you want to be has a college degree.

Definitely not true in most places. Sure some places care about degrees, but it's certainly not the rule. I've never worked at a place where degree has anything to do with pay scale. I know plenty of managers without degrees, we even have a couple C levels where I work now without a degree.

fuz1on

networker050184 wrote: »

Definitely not true in most places. Sure some places care about degrees, but it's certainly not the rule. I've never worked at a place where degree has anything to do with pay scale. I know plenty of managers without degrees, we even have a couple C levels where I work now without a degree.

It's from my own personal experience but the competitive environment here is pretty bad. I worked with guys without degrees doing desktop/network at a large company and now they've been jobless for 2-3 years now - or at least not doing IT work anymore. One guy is close to 40 and starting to go to school to get an AS in networking because that is the only way he'll ever make it out of HRs' 15 second initial glance.

kohr-ah

Murph2390 wrote: »

Yeah, the whole college concept drives me nuts. Should have to take required classes that have nothing to do with your area of study.

Well a lot of those are necessary to an extent it just depends on how you look at it. I always had friends who wondered why do I have to take social sciences, regular science, linguistics, etc even though I am going in IT. Because it helps give you a well rounded education to be better off in the world.

fuz1on wrote: »

It's from my own personal experience but the competitive environment here is pretty bad. I worked with guys without degrees doing desktop/network at a large company and now they've been jobless for 2-3 years now - or at least not doing IT work anymore. One guy is close to 40 and starting to go to school to get an AS in networking because that is the only way he'll ever make it out of HRs' 15 second initial glance.

Wow. Seriously? If they cant find a job 2 - 3 years they have a lot more going on besides a lack of a degree. No offense to them or anything. Not saying I dont believe you, but I am saying those people have some major issues going on outside of holding a degree.

fuz1on

kohr-ah wrote: »

Wow. Seriously? If they cant find a job 2 - 3 years they have a lot more going on besides a lack of a degree. No offense to them or anything. Not saying I dont believe you, but I am saying those people have some major issues going on outside of holding a degree.

Automation took away their jobs and their skills are too commonplace here. Companies have been burned bad by assumption of skill-set so they set standards of a Masters degree as a minimum requirement for being a legit engineer at most established enterprises.

gespenstern

H3||scr3am wrote: »

all of these certifications, and am finding it really difficult to get interviews/past the screenings
...
I start my WGU Bachelors in March.

I'd say that's ridiculous, cause you have CISSP and WGU explicitly says on their MSISA page that all they do there is teach you 10 domains to prepare you to pass CISSP. So one would say that having CISSP should be at least effectively equal to having Master of Science in Infosec and Assurance and even more, because getting MSISA from them doesn't guarantee that you will pass CISSP successfully.

I'm in the same boat, I don't have a degree and weighing in do I need to spend a lot of money and time on getting MSISA when I already have CISSP. The only reason I see is to be able to pass that stupid HR or even automated screen that filters you out because they don't know that they shouldn't ask for master's degree a person who has CISSP.

anhtran35

I don't think a college degree has a lot of weight. I've always been under the impression that Experience and Certification outweighs it. College degree are more for management position.

fuz1on

anhtran35 wrote: »

I don't think a college degree has a lot of weight. I've always been under the impression that Experience and Certification outweighs it. College degree are more for management position.

In my area, it's pretty much mandatory for any job. Every posting has college degree required - AA/AS for 1st tier engineers, BA/BS for 2nd tier and Masters/PhD for 3rd tier and above + certification/experience. Location is everything I suppose...

anhtran35

I assume Silicon Valley has more private corporations? Google etc???

DC/VA/MD majority wise is fill with government IT jobs.

IIIMaster

Have at the least an associates, experience and a few certs to be more well rounded. If your stacking certs without any experience good luck man. Typically if you are experience your certs will target your direction, experience and goals. No use of getting a ccnp/ ccdp if your not into networking and design. To finish the full ccnp cert WILL TAKE 1 YEAR OF STUDIES. Then you will have to go back and take your ccda and arch exam which is x2 as hard as the ccna if you want the ccdp. Why go after a mcse if your not into admin ? Why go after the net+ if your pursuing cisco ? Dont waste your movements be precise about your goals. 3 Months of studying and the cost for an exam probably took you back while you could have work on your redhat or vm certs.

Murph2390

I almost feel like I started a war between the college grads and the guys who just certified haha...

Have at the least an associates, experience and a few certs to be more well rounded. If your stacking certs without any experience good luck man. Typically if you are experience your certs will target your direction, experience and goals. No use of getting a ccnp/ ccdp if your not into networking and design. To finish the full ccnp cert WILL TAKE 1 YEAR OF STUDIES. Then you will have to go back and take your ccda and arch exam which is x2 as hard as the ccna if you want the ccdp. Why go after a mcse if your not into admin ? Why go after the net+ if your pursuing cisco ? Dont waste your movements be precise about your goals. 3 Months of studying and the cost for an exam probably took you back while you could have work on your redhat or vm certs.

I've read a lot into which certifications people are paring together to become a more standout resume and most of the CCNA/CCNP candidates have MCSA/MCSE to go together which to me makes sense. Since you have background in both the infrastructure of networking and server administration. I took the Net+ because when I first tried the cisco academy I was only 15 so it was a bit overwhelming for me and found the net+ a little less intimidating. And as for the VM cert you mentioned, that is actually what was on the top of my list and I was planning on running VMware to play around on microsoft server a bit to double dip the studying for the 2.

IIIMaster

Murph2390 wrote: »

I almost feel like I started a war between the college grads and the guys who just certified haha...



I've read a lot into which certifications people are paring together to become a more standout resume and most of the CCNA/CCNP candidates have MCSA/MCSE to go together which to me makes sense. Since you have background in both the infrastructure of networking and server administration. I took the Net+ because when I first tried the cisco academy I was only 15 so it was a bit overwhelming for me and found the net+ a little less intimidating. And as for the VM cert you mentioned, that is actually what was on the top of my list and I was planning on running VMware to play around on microsoft server a bit to double dip the studying for the 2.

I get what your saying but if you want to get into IT you will be better off starting with school. I hear to tell you the CCNP is no joke. The volume of material in the ip route exam is thick.The route book is 1,000 pages, written by a CCIE of course. Also for the MCSA there is so many flavors to it and the knowledge itself is deep. That is why I say if you go to school you can slowly learn all of these technologies in a up to date lab environment. But hey man if you got the time to burn go on ahead. Also you have the qualifications for entry level work with an A+ and Net+. But if you really want that higher tier job you will need that education .

networker050184

fuz1on wrote: »

In my area, it's pretty much mandatory for any job. Every posting has college degree required - AA/AS for 1st tier engineers, BA/BS for 2nd tier and Masters/PhD for 3rd tier and above + certification/experience. Location is everything I suppose...

If your location is really Silicon Valley that definitely is not the way it works. Not at most of the big tech companies anyway.

joelsfood

FWIW, I've seen it both ways, and I haven't found any one definition that tells whether a company will require it. Worked for small office supply company, and they wanted degrees for anyone in IT. Work for a Fortune 100 now, and I think only 2-3 out of our team of 8 have degrees.

Luckily, I went both routes, and have degree and certs, so neither one can put me out of running for a job. Of course, that means I have no one to blame by my skills and experience if I miss out on a job.

rsutton

I've been working in Silicon Valley since 98 with no degree. I've never gone more than a week w/out a job and have no problem getting interviews. I've worked for 10 different companies ranging from SMB's - Fortune 500.

If you're not getting interviews, it's not because you don't have a degree. Something else is wrong with your resume. A degree, like most anything else on a job posting "requirement" section is simply a wish list. In my current role, I am responsible for recruiting desktop support technicians and Sys admins; a degree is nice, but I care far more about experience. If you get to the phone or in-person interview stage, the degree matters even less.

Don't drink the koolaid, while degrees are great to have, they are not required to make very good money in IT.

geekgirl74

I believe I got extremely lucky to land a position with no certs and no experience, just my Bachelor's degree. I would say 90% of the engineers hired here get hired based on their experience only, with either no degree or the degree they have is not a consideration because they want someone that can take off running (I work at an MSP).

Mooseboost

I personally value certifications more than degrees for IT. Technology is a sector where things change. Once you obtain a degree, it is yours forever. Many certifications expire. Exams get updated to reflect newer technology. Certifications take a shorter amount of time to obtain, but to maintain your certification you will be required to stay in the loop. Someone with a Masters degree who hasn't worked in their field or kept up with it for years isn't worth as much as a professional level certified person with a few years of experience. Those HR filters though.

Jon_Cisco

geekgirl74 wrote: »

I believe I got extremely lucky to land a position with no certs and no experience, just my Bachelor's degree. I would say 90% of the engineers hired here get hired based on their experience only, with either no degree or the degree they have is not a consideration because they want someone that can take off running (I work at an MSP).

The case could be made that your degree allowed you to land a job that might not have been available to others without one.

I am not for or against degrees. Anyone with enough knowledge and motivation can eventually succeed. However I do believe in statistics and averages. There are a lot of positions that will be listed requiring a degree. They may eventually be filled by someone without the degree but given the choice of 20 candidates eliminating the ones without a degree is an easy first step. I believe as a persons career advances their knowledge will eventually be the deciding factor but again if you are looking for positions without an inside referral you may find someone else with a degree gets the interview first.

When it comes to certifications it's important to realize they have a shorter lifespan then degrees. Someone in their twenties may not consider this much but someone in their fifties will probably be very aware of it.

fuz1on

networker050184 wrote: »

If your location is really Silicon Valley that definitely is not the way it works. Not at most of the big tech companies anyway.

I've worked at a few big companies and that's how it works. I was born and raised in Silicon Valley - I've seen it all. Plus, I have been interviewing extensively the last few months and every job explicitly asks for a bachelors degree. They ask right off the bat - not having one immediately eliminates your candidacy.

networker050184

I've worked at some of the big companies, have friends working at the big companies, both with and without degrees. Google certainly doesn't require a degree. Every job I have ever had "requires" a degree on the ad though.

N2IT

In business roles, degrees count for a lot more, IT not so much experience is king. Of course certifications can help depending on what you want to do.