Achieved MCSE: Server Infrastructure, but I advise others to skip it

MeatCatalogue

Background:

I achieved my MCSA: Server 2012 last summer using 70-417 and then got my MCSE: Messaging on exchange 2013. My career position since last fall when I got my exchange 2013 cert has changed (promoted.. sort of) and I felt it was important to upgrade my MCSA to MCSE on Server Infrastructure since I am now responsible for quite a lot more including AD, exchange, etc.

This morning I took the Advanced Server Infrastructure exam, 70-414 and I nearly failed, it was so brutal. I have several complaints about this exam, but I started this thread to really say that I should have just stayed with my MCSA.

In my experience, unless your job or working environment is heavily (And I do mean EXTREMELY heavily) invested in System center, Hyper-V, Virtual machine Mananger, cross datacenter clustering using server 2012+, I say stick with just the MCSA.

In my case, like most people, I think - we use VMWare and not hyper-v. We have a few clusters running on server 2008 R2. We do not use VMM in any way, and we have multiple hardware SANs which provide plenty of vMotion/livemigration compatibility, so no storage pools in use, etc. SOME of our DCs are virtualized and are on VMware of course, so no opportunity to virtualize and template them. We have a small ADRMS cluster but do not federate with anyone.

I'm curious what others think of MCSE and whether you actually use any of the topics covered in 70-413 and 70-414. If you do, please comment about the size of your organization and whether you have embraced server 2012 technologies like storage pools, virtualized DCs, hyper-v 3.0+, etc.

At this point I feel i've just wasted the last two months and $300.

kriscamaro68

MeatCatalogue wrote: »

I'm curious what others think of MCSE and whether you actually use any of the topics covered in 70-413 and 70-414. If you do, please comment about the size of your organization and whether you have embraced server 2012 technologies like storage pools, virtualized DCs, hyper-v 3.0+, etc.

At this point I feel i've just wasted the last two months and $300.

I have used some of the technologies in the 70-413-414. We actually use Hyper-V/VMM 2012R2 very heavily here and it basically runs our entire Windows environment. There are about 80 VM's running on Hyper-V and I have never had any issue with this setup. We also use SCCM very heavily and will be implementing Ops Man as well. We do not use storage pools for anything here but I use it a ton at home. I also have a Hyper-V cluster setup at home for my lab and have the VM's running on an SMB 3 share that is all SSD's. We have about 1200 people in the company and are very Windows leaning but also run all Linux VM's on VMware with the exception of 2 which run on another Hyper-V 2012 cluster half way around the world. I just got handed the VMware blades so I will be diving deeper into that as well. In the end I enjoy Hyper-V/VMM very much and don't regret learning any of it.

Wagnaard

I'm going to training for this in a few days. At the very least the MCSA in Svr 2012 will be useful. We have SCCM and I'd like the MCSE for career reasons. It never hurts to be prepared for a new CIO coming in and declaring that all that VMware stuff is crap and we'll be going with hyper-v.

pjd007

I'm sitting 412 soon and will then be two exams away from being an MCSE, in my view if you're looking for a new job (which I will be) employees will be asking for MCSE rather than MCSA.

Also you may not currently use all the technologies covered in the MCSE or be responsible for some of the design stuff but wouldn't you want to be considered for other positions that do allow you to utilise those skills if\when they become available !?!?

I think in the end for most people it depends on how much time they can allow for studying and how driven you are, I've been wanting to complete the MCSE for a long time and I'm finally able to spend sufficient time studying to get it done.

Skelly

Unfortunately, if you're applying for a job in most mid-size to large companies, you have to get past the resume screener in HR, or a technical recruiter. Most of these people aren't technical, so they look for the key words, especially MCSE.

I've been taking the MS tests and working as a consultant since the NT 4.0 days, and while I can't speak to 70-414 since I haven't taken it yet, there's always topics covered on the tests that you will never see out in the real world.

JohnnyUtah41

I just completed the 2012 MCSA about 10 days ago, I told myself i was going to start applying for jobs once i got the MCSA; then i realized i was only two exams away from MCSE. So it sorta motivated me. I'm not stopping until i pass 413 and 414 for the MCSE. I took a week off from passing 412 before i started on 413 and then ran into the ProctorU deal for server+, so i studied for the server+ for about 3 or 4 days and took it last week. I officially started studying for 413 today.

at my office we use VMWare with a couple of HP P2000 san's. Most our servers are now virtualized, but no clusters or failover, no storage pools. We use Veeam for backups and not windows backup. I'm sure there will always be things that i'll learn about but not actually use in production.

thatguy67

I will study the 413 and 414 material, but won't take the tests. I am gunning for the MCSA and will likely stay at the MCSA level, because I am working up towards an internship right now, the MCSA doesn't expire, and cost. I would rather spend that money towards my VCP or CCNA.

If I had a "regular" situation (i.e. steady job/income), I would still not voluntarily/independently pursue the MCSE-level exams because of the recertification requirement.

pjd007

thatguy67 wrote: »

I will study the 413 and 414 material, but won't take the tests. I am gunning for the MCSA and will likely stay at the MCSA level, because I am working up towards an internship right now, the MCSA doesn't expire, and cost. I would rather spend that money towards my VCP or CCNA.

If I had a "regular" situation (i.e. steady job/income), I would still not voluntarily/independently pursue the MCSE-level exams because of the recertification requirement.

Fair enough but you're probably in the minority with that point of view.

Rocket-sG

This is all very interesting to read. I am working on 411 right now. I had read some old threads saying that MCSE is what the recruiters are looking for and that MCSA was "not enough" as so forth. But I wonder how much of that was propaganda.But I am confused about the future and with so many options and career paths in I.T. it is hard to decide which way to go as far as certifications go. I would hate to get all "certed up" in Microsoft and end up working with a completely different technology. Im getting too old to waste any more time. I am almost 40

All I know is that I read job postings and half the stuff I read about I dont have the certs and lots of times I have never even heard of the technologies they are speaking about. And they want like 5+ years of experience. It is intimidating to read the postings and realize you dont have what it takes to even send a resume in.

And the worst thing of all is that this I.T. material is so dreadfully boring. Maybe I am in the wrong field but I do not get excited about this stuff and wish I could be a famous actor instead or a rock star

I just hope I dont devote 10 years to this, get a bunch of certs and find myself making $60,000 and bored with my career. Working in a stale office with dilbert cartoons posted on my cubicle wall and a crush on the secretary that I am too afraid to ask out.

powerfool

I have to imagine that they are still referring to the old structure of the MCSA and MCSE. In that sense, I would agree with their statements, but with the new structure, I feel that the MCSA is about on par with the MCSE of old... maybe just a little shy of it. The new MCSE is about to the level of the old specialties that used to exist on top of the MCSE.

Skelly

Rocket-sG wrote: »

This is all very interesting to read. I am working on 411 right now. I had read some old threads saying that MCSE is what the recruiters are looking for and that MCSA was "not enough" as so forth. But I wonder how much of that was propaganda.But I am confused about the future and with so many options and career paths in I.T. it is hard to decide which way to go as far as certifications go. I would hate to get all "certed up" in Microsoft and end up working with a completely different technology. Im getting too old to waste any more time. I am almost 40

All I know is that I read job postings and half the stuff I read about I dont have the certs and lots of times I have never even heard of the technologies they are speaking about. And they want like 5+ years of experience. It is intimidating to read the postings and realize you dont have what it takes to even send a resume in.

And the worst thing of all is that this I.T. material is so dreadfully boring. Maybe I am in the wrong field but I do not get excited about this stuff and wish I could be a famous actor instead or a rock star

I just hope I dont devote 10 years to this, get a bunch of certs and find myself making $60,000 and bored with my career. Working in a stale office with dilbert cartoons posted on my cubicle wall and a crush on the secretary that I am too afraid to ask out.

I have some recruiters that are my drinking buddies, and in my last company I did the technical interviews for incoming candidates. Trust me, it's NOT propaganda, you can get by without the MCSE, but only if you have years of verified experience to back it up.

I obtained my first certification when I was 38, (which was much longer ago than I care to admit...), and it, along with lots of experience have kept me well employed and well paid ever since.

Got news for ya, if you stay in this field, you're gonna need to read lots and lots of technical material to keep up with the constant changes. You don't have to be excited or downright passionate about this stuff, but it helps.

You're 40, that's a major milestone in most peoples lives. Take some time and decide what truly interests you and pursue it.

JohnnyUtah41

powerfool wrote: »

I have to imagine that they are still referring to the old structure of the MCSA and MCSE. In that sense, I would agree with their statements, but with the new structure, I feel that the MCSA is about on par with the MCSE of old... maybe just a little shy of it. The new MCSE is about to the level of the old specialties that used to exist on top of the MCSE.

i forget which video it was either 410 or 411 exam the instructor said the 2012 MCSA is on par with the old 2000/2003 MCSE as far as how much knowledge they cram into the MCSA..it was either cbtnuggets or plurasight..

Louie1277

I notice user talking about cbtnuggets or plurasight..

I'm wondering which site is better to watch video's from? I know you can't just watch the videos to pass the exam it's just a reference. but which one give better information and easy to follow along and do the steps

Rocket-sG

Thanks guys for that helpful feedback. For now I will just see about getting the MCSA and see how I feel after passing the 412

Regarding the MCSA I have access to the cbt nuggets as well as the pluralsight and have been using the cbt nuggets based on what other people recommend, I never really gave the pluralsight a fair shake, though. At least as far as Microsoft 2012

And I never watched videos for the Comptia exams, those I just read the textbook and passed without much difficulty.

Planning to pass MCSA and complete CCNA after that, hopefully after that I can get a job other than Helpdesk

But with my current experience all I qualify for is helpdesk (As of today)

David71

Skelly wrote: »

I have some recruiters that are my drinking buddies, and in my last company I did the technical interviews for incoming candidates. Trust me, it's NOT propaganda, you can get by without the MCSE, but only if you have years of verified experience to back it up.

I obtained my first certification when I was 38, (which was much longer ago than I care to admit...), and it, along with lots of experience have kept me well employed and well paid ever since.

Got news for ya, if you stay in this field, you're gonna need to read lots and lots of technical material to keep up with the constant changes. You don't have to be excited or downright passionate about this stuff, but it helps.

You're 40, that's a major milestone in most peoples lives. Take some time and decide what truly interests you and pursue it.

Yep.... Think about the differences from NT 4.0 to 2012r2 and everything in between. I think it
does help to have a passion for it because it is ever changing. I myself look at it like a puzzle
and I do like puzzles. So when I am watching TV at night, I find it enjoyable to mess around and
try new things in my home lab. It probably will take someone a few years to figure out if this line
of work is for them or not. And it also helps to be fit in an area that interests them in the first
place and not expect to make a ton of money off the bat. When I started IT, I got my MCSE 4.0 and from
what I understood it was going to make me a ton of money. I started in a company there is Shawnee that
basically paid me 13 or 14 dollars an hour to go from place to place around the city, eg Shawnee Chamber
of Commerce, Nascar Marketing firm downtown, clothing design place in Leawood, etc etc. doing simple stuff
like replacing network cards and other simple things. Anyways, I didn't think much of IT till I bid my time
worked at it a while, moving up the ladder, and then things really took off for me when I got into Healthcare
IT. I always found the medical field fascinating and once I started working with DICOM and EMR technologies,
I found that this was not only a "job" but a career that I have enjoyed. I am not too fond of every aspect
of the app analyst side as I tend to like the infrascructure part more, but there is a good balance to be
found...... We each have our own interests... I am not sure I would enjoy it as much as I do now, if I were
in say, banking or a law firm. I think I would still like the technologies like MCS and PVS, vmware and such,
but being in healthcare is the cherry on top for me. I would say, tell the poster, give it a couple of years
and just see where it takes him. My two cents...

it2b

The job I just left was a large Microsoft shop, but we used VMWare globally. I had worked to get my MCSA upgraded to 2012 while there. However, the management didn't care about certification or give any additional rewards for it, so I didn't try hard to complete the MCSE.

We were recently acquired and I left to start a new job at an MSP in December. This new company puts a lot of weight behind certification and gives hefty bonuses for engineering level certs such as MCSE. So I am now trying to finish the 70-413/70-414 by July to get the bonus for this year.

Also, even though I am coming in with 15 years experience and having worked in large enterprises, they did not hire me at a senior level because I did not have the MCSE. I 'only' had the MCSA. If I obtain the certification there is room for advancement as well.

I agree that I will probably never use half the topics from the exam with the size clients we support. But as you can see, there can be incentive to get the title.

pjd007

it2b wrote: »

The job I just left was a large Microsoft shop, but we used VMWare globally. I had worked to get my MCSA upgraded to 2012 while there. However, the management didn't care about certification or give any additional rewards for it, so I didn't try hard to complete the MCSE.

We were recently acquired and I left to start a new job at an MSP in December. This new company puts a lot of weight behind certification and gives hefty bonuses for engineering level certs such as MCSE. So I am now trying to finish the 70-413/70-414 by July to get the bonus for this year.

Also, even though I am coming in with 15 years experience and having worked in large enterprises, they did not hire me at a senior level because I did not have the MCSE. I 'only' had the MCSA. If I obtain the certification there is room for advancement as well.

I agree that I will probably never use half the topics from the exam with the size clients we support. But as you can see, there can be incentive to get the title.

A very real world example of the value of the MCSE !

IMO if you get the MCSA what's another two exams, has to be worth putting the time in for.

Now back onto my 413 studies !