Interesting education discrimination email I got today

N2IT

@ Thacker

The recruiters approach was pure trash that's non negotiable IMO
WGU is a fine school IMO
If they want to date the hot girl they are going to pay for her. ***They seemed a little out of their league to be honest
Each region is different the south IMO has that closeness, something tells me if you went west cost or up north you wouldn't get as much of that.

Keep the dream alive, I love that you are transitioning into development. It's what IT is all about, from the movies I used to watch when I was a child or the basic programs I use to code on the commodore. IMO software development is IT.

Thacker

N2IT wrote: »

@ Thacker

The recruiters approach was pure trash that's non negotiable IMO
WGU is a fine school IMO
If they want to date the hot girl they are going to pay for her. ***They seemed a little out of their league to be honest
Each region is different the south IMO has that closeness, something tells me if you went west cost or up north you wouldn't get as much of that.

Keep the dream alive, I love that you are transitioning into development. It's what IT is all about, from the movies I used to watch when I was a child or the basic programs I use to code on the commodore. IMO software development is IT.

Thanks. I am liking development a lot more and I don't even have a job doing it yet. I have worked hard over the past four months fulltime to build a good solid foundation. I have self taught Java, C#, completed the CS50 edX course, done a small python project, written a C# game in Unity and developed a small desktop app. I hope it won't be hard finding a position that will "take a chance" on me.

dou2ble

Akaricloud wrote: »

You can post about ideally how the world should be, but the reality is this is how it's thought about. Could you have gone about it differently and easily overcome this? -Likely. The fact that you weren't willing to says a lot about you as a candidate. I do quite a bit of hiring myself and would never hire anyone with this idealistic, defensive attitude.

You can't expect every HR person to be perfect, but they CAN expect you to be.

To add to this, sometimes hundreds of resume's are submitted and the fact that you made it through their filters is good. But by the time resumes got to me my mindset was show me why I should consider you over the competition. Sure HR can use Google but they don't need to sell you, you do. When one of the big 4 hired me and my online bachelors it was because I sold them on my skillset, experience and certs. I had 3 interviews and the 3rd one was 3 hours total, an hour each with 3 different people. They didn't like my online degree but I didn't let that stop me or expect them to Google it. I wanted to join them, they had 100's of candidates and weren't sold on me initially.

I don't like what that recruiter said and would also walk from it. I just don't think you responded the right way. But we learn and move on.

IIIMaster

They may be looking for candidates enroll in a well known computer science degree program. That is how Atlanta is very competitive since they have Ga Tech students coming out daily. If your looking for a nice affordable well known school for computer science try Columbus State University. They have a bachelor/ masters accelerated program and a well known computer science masters program with several different tracks.

Hammer80

WGU is considered a State school because the legislative body in that state granted it that status. This also requires every college in the state to have some sort of a transfer program to that particular college. This also allows folks which have either a bachelors or masters from WGU to apply to Graduate level programs with any college which is considered a state school without issues within that state.

Currently WGU is considered a state school in:
Indiana
Missouri
Tennessee
Texas
Washington

Thacker

You guys are making me feel pretty bad about my decision to pursue this considering apparently employers in my area have 100's of resumes from many people more qualified than myself.

I find it a bit hard to believe, considering how high salaries still are for software developers in the area and I have been told by 2-3 recruiters already how hard its getting to fill software positions ... but... meh... I don't know who to believe.

dou2ble

I don't think they're more qualified. Unless your definition is going to a top school like many employers think. I'm just saying you'll have to sell yourself a bit more to show them that you are just as qualified. At the end of the day they want someone that produces and delivers. If you can show them that you'll golden.

I also think that programmers are in demand. Probably more so for specific languages. You'll find something...this was just one bad experience you'll learn from.

N2IT

Naa don't let that discourage you keep going strong, build your portfolio up. You'll get a chance, maybe looks for a programmer analyst type position or a technical BA position where development is a focus. Do that for a year or two and see about transitioning from there.

Maybe a senior tester that requires automate scripting and a strong understanding of .net or Java.

GForce75

Wow, that's nuts!

Thacker

dou2ble wrote: »

I don't think they're more qualified. Unless your definition is going to a top school like many employers think. I'm just saying you'll have to sell yourself a bit more to show them that you are just as qualified. At the end of the day they want someone that produces and delivers. If you can show them that you'll golden.

I also think that programmers are in demand. Probably more so for specific languages. You'll find something...this was just one bad experience you'll learn from.

I'd have no trouble proving my knowledge and presenting myself in a good light... but when they don't even speak to me and I am automatically discredited... that makes it much harder haha.

twodogs62

WGU regionally credited.

you should probably always professionally respond.

if you can't buy help send a reply. Make it in the form of a Java scorpt or other code.

BlackBeret

twodogs62 wrote: »

if you can't buy help send a reply. Make it in the form of a Java scorpt or other code.

I had a form for a pentest job where they had put a bunch of 0's in for people to print it out and bubble in their answers. I decided I didn't feel like printing it out, bubbling in various answers, and scanning it. It looked close enough to binary to me, so I changed my true answers to 1's instead. I never heard back from the recruiter.... but the program manager emailed me the next day and we started discussing the position.

BGE240

for what ever it's worth, there are some FREE courses at MIT and Stanford University as well as Harvard and others
Some of these you take via Coursera.com and Lynda.com and I believe that EdX.edu is MIT and one more is Udemy.com

In any case, I have put some of these on my resume and my linked in profile

So maybe next time you are asked such bs questions, you could tell them about the MIT classes you have taken and see what they say

dbzrfl

I am going to be harsh and say online vs brick and mortar are really not the same, you are kidding yourself if you think otherwise, I can honestly understand why employers will over look 80 percent of online degree, applicants.
I get it if you attend WGU, your going to be defensive, your kidding yourself.
My new mentor was looking over my degree plan just today, and started talking about how she understands that Cisco certs are hard, and I will need to work very hard to get my cert, I have no Cisco anything to take.
Online schools have a reputation and after my experience in my second term I can see why, certifications do not translate into jobs, and very seldom does an online degree translate either.

srabiee

dbzrfl wrote: »

I can honestly understand why employers will over look 90 percent of online degree, applicants.

Source please... :

Legacy User

@OP

Don't sweat it people have there own preferences and you applied to a place that had theres. You come off sounding like it is the end of the world from one email don't let it get you down. There are plenty of jobs around you just have to convince a company why they should pay you instead of the next person.

But I feel as mentioned previously you should've just said it is a state school in Utah and move on from it. If they say Utah?! but you are located in Georgia how did you manage that. Just say just about every school nowadays offer there programs online and that school was the best fit for you. Then move on from that and start asking questions the position. After reading your response to the recruiter it makes going to WGU sound like complete trash and I obtained my degree from there. So mind your wording next time.

The fact that they contacted you mean your resume was good enough to come through the filters you just have to sell the rest.

dbzrfl

I am not so sure you want to do that my impression was that it will say WGU of what state your in, so if you say Utah and your degree says something else you just lied yourself out of a a job. I am sure it is not going to say Utah, I was hoping Utah but checked into it, last year.

anoeljr

dbzrfl wrote: »

I am not so sure you want to do that my impression was that it will say WGU of what state your in, so if you say Utah and your degree says something else you just lied yourself out of a a job. I am sure it is not going to say Utah, I was hoping Utah but checked into it, last year.

WGU's based in Utah and that's what you should put. The degree will say Western Governors University at the top and doesn't mention the state anywhere on the diploma. If you're in one of the partnership state institutions, then it will say WGU Texas, WGU Missouri, etc. underneath Western Governors University. If you're in a state that WGU has a partnership with you may be able to put that state on your resume, but I'm not completely sure. I imagine that you could though.

Legacy User

@dbzrfl
I think you are misinformed they are branded as a state school in a handful of states not in the entire country. But regardless how is saying that it is a state school lying when they are clearly a state school? It may not be your state but they are a state school. Yes I was incorrect about it being a state school in Utah but going back to my original post its the same point whether I said washington, indiana, texas, etc.

Just to add the recruiter just said I haven't heard of them are they based in Atlanta. So you don't need to go into specifics alternatively you could say its a university based in utah and leave it at that.There's different ways to skin a cat just always triple read emails because once they sent they're out of your hands.

anoeljr

dbzrfl wrote: »

I am going to be harsh and say online vs brick and mortar are really not the same, you are kidding yourself if you think otherwise, I can honestly understand why employers will over look 80 percent of online degree, applicants.
I get it if you attend WGU, your going to be defensive, your kidding yourself.
My new mentor was looking over my degree plan just today, and started talking about how she understands that Cisco certs are hard, and I will need to work very hard to get my cert, I have no Cisco anything to take.
Online schools have a reputation and after my experience in my second term I can see why, certifications do not translate into jobs, and very seldom does an online degree translate either.

You didn't even explain what you're talking about. No examples or anything. Come on man.

Akaricloud

Thacker wrote: »

You guys are making me feel pretty bad about my decision to pursue this considering apparently employers in my area have 100's of resumes from many people more qualified than myself.

I find it a bit hard to believe, considering how high salaries still are for software developers in the area and I have been told by 2-3 recruiters already how hard its getting to fill software positions ... but... meh... I don't know who to believe.

There will almost always be someone more qualified than yourself applying for a position, and often many overqualified that have applied. With that said, finding the right candidate to fill a position can be extremely difficult even when receiving hundreds of applications.

The last round of hiring I did we had 223 applicants send resumes, out of which two were professional enough and correctly qualified(Not over or under qualified) to interview. From those two one showed up 15 minutes late wearing a jean jacket without excusing himself and the second was unable to answer technical questions regarding the topics he listed on his resume. We hired neither and started the process over.

Getting hired isn't about having the most qualifications, it's about being professional and a correct fit for the position. It is extremely difficult to find technical candidates who are professional and possess good teamwork/people skills. In this market employers have the choice to be picky, and we are.

Iristheangel

dbzrfl wrote: »

I am going to be harsh and say online vs brick and mortar are really not the same, you are kidding yourself if you think otherwise, I can honestly understand why employers will over look 80 percent of online degree, applicants.
I get it if you attend WGU, your going to be defensive, your kidding yourself.
My new mentor was looking over my degree plan just today, and started talking about how she understands that Cisco certs are hard, and I will need to work very hard to get my cert, I have no Cisco anything to take.
Online schools have a reputation and after my experience in my second term I can see why, certifications do not translate into jobs, and very seldom does an online degree translate either.

I'm a little confused on your communication style. I guess you're still working up to those GE classes

As far as degrees/certs/experience == job, we all sell ourselves. I think the justification for my job title and pay is a combination of those things. Could I have this job without one of those things? My degree level (not my school) and certifications were subjects brought up in the multiple interviews I had for my current position. It gave my manager justification to give me the salary I asked for and it continues to be something that is highlighted in internal emails to our leadership. My academic achievements and my pursuit of continuous education is something that has rewarded me.

As far as whether a online degree is the same as a brick and mortar degree? It all depends. I think it depends on the school and how much you put into it. I've met idiots with CS degrees from great institutions and I've met people who've blown me away from DeVry

For the recruiter from the OP's original post, wash your hands and move on. I am sure that person giggled with her/his little HR buddies as they sent you that e-mail and they're small people in the scheme of things. When you finally get a great developer job and move up, you'll make more money, have more job security and enjoy a much better lifestyle so don't sweat the small petty people you'll meet. The best revenge is living well

And LoL on the reply. Yes, it could have been more professional and so could the recruiter but no one is perfect.

dbzrfl

Oh okay, I see you what your saying.

I do know, hospitals have no problems with online IT degrees Mercy, ST Anthony's, Colleges, K-12 will hire too.
I always inform people about the testing standards, and most people are surprised to learn that test are proctored and are listened upon.
Phoenix University is the sole reason why people do not take online degrees seriously, can you blame them.

I am not trying to burst anyone's bubble, but we all know the stigmata that go's along with online schools.

anoeljr

@dbzrl

Thanks for the explanation man.

dbzrfl

Yea I just read over that, awful but I am at work trying to work and post

hurricane1091

dbzrfl wrote: »

Oh okay, I see you what your saying.

I do know, hospitals have no problems with online IT degrees Mercy, ST Anthony's, Colleges, K-12 will hire too.
I always inform people about the testing standards, and most people are surprised to learn that test are proctored and are listened upon.
Phoenix University is the sole reason why people do not take online degrees seriously, can you blame them.

I am not trying to burst anyone's bubble, but we all know the stigmata that go's along with online schools.

My boss has a BS and MBA from Phoenix. CTO and Partner.

aspiringsoul

I hate to be a grammar ****, but you are at a disadvantage when applying to jobs online when you don't understand the difference between your and you're.

dbzrfl wrote: »

I am going to be harsh and say online vs brick and mortar are really not the same, you are kidding yourself if you think otherwise, I can honestly understand why employers will over look 80 percent of online degree, applicants.
I get it if you attend WGU, your going to be defensive, your kidding yourself.
My new mentor was looking over my degree plan just today, and started talking about how she understands that Cisco certs are hard, and I will need to work very hard to get my cert, I have no Cisco anything to take.
Online schools have a reputation and after my experience in my second term I can see why, certifications do not translate into jobs, and very seldom does an online degree translate either.

You're...

You're is a contraction of you are. It has no other uses. This is a 100% rule. If you cannot expand it to you are in your sentence, then it is wrong.

The word your sits before another word (usually a noun or a pronoun) to show that it belongs to "you" (e.g., your car, your arm), is of "you" (e.g., your picture, your photograph) or is related to "you" (e.g., your uncle).

Your is a possessive adjective. (Other possessive adjectives aremy, your, his,her, its, our, and their.)

Hammer80

dbzrfl wrote: »

I am going to be harsh and say online vs brick and mortar are really not the same, you are kidding yourself if you think otherwise, I can honestly understand why employers will over look 80 percent of online degree, applicants.
I get it if you attend WGU, your going to be defensive, your kidding yourself.
My new mentor was looking over my degree plan just today, and started talking about how she understands that Cisco certs are hard, and I will need to work very hard to get my cert, I have no Cisco anything to take.
Online schools have a reputation and after my experience in my second term I can see why, certifications do not translate into jobs, and very seldom does an online degree translate either.

Apparently you have been drinking the brick mortar school kool-aid and your mentor is very old school. First of all you'll be shocked by how much of the upper management in Fortune 500 companies have online degrees of some sort. Second unless you have a computer science degree than yes certification will indeed get you a job. I live in a city which is considered the baby silicon valley of the south and I can tell you that unless you have the CS degree than you better damn have certifications otherwise they won't even talk to you. So yes certifications do indeed translate into a job. You have provided no sources to back your claims so if you are going to make argument like that please do the proper research. Yes there will be always be candidates that have education from one of the premium brick and mortar schools but they amount to a drop in a bucket in relation to the total amount of college graduates.

If this is how you write while working than I would really hate to read your work emails. That was awful and painful to read. Maybe your mentor should recommend for you to retake some of the English 101 courses before you start bashing online education. You're not really making a point by claiming superiority of brick and mortar education when you cannot write properly.

aspiringsoul

I think individuals like Iristheangel are excellent examples of how a person's drive and ambition allows them to achieve higher levels of success than the reputation of the piece of paper that they have framed on his or her wall.

One of my friends has a Bachelor degree from Devry. He just earned the CCIE Collaboration and he is now an employee of Cisco.

If a potential employer passes you up based on where you earned your degree, keep your chin up and and move on...

Mutata

dbzrfl wrote: »

I am going to be harsh and say online vs brick and mortar are really not the same, you are kidding yourself if you think otherwise, I can honestly understand why employers will over look 80 percent of online degree, applicants.
I get it if you attend WGU, your going to be defensive, your kidding yourself.
My new mentor was looking over my degree plan just today, and started talking about how she understands that Cisco certs are hard, and I will need to work very hard to get my cert, I have no Cisco anything to take.
Online schools have a reputation and after my experience in my second term I can see why, certifications do not translate into jobs, and very seldom does an online degree translate either.

I have never seen this.

I don't know if your mentor was advising this, but if she is, I would suggest a new mentor