MBA at DSU? or MSISA from WGU? or MSISA/MBA from UMUC?

Itrimble

Hey everyone,

So I am about to finish my bachelors in Network Administration at WGU. I have 2 classes left!

I also recently accepted a job as a security engineer. I am now at the difficult choice in what and where I want to study next.

I have been toying around with the idea of:

1. The MBA/MSISA from UMUC
2. The MSISA from WGU
3. The MSISA or MBA from Dakota State University.

My goal is to get into management in the security field. Which degree in your opionion would get me on the fast track to management and to get to six figures once I make the move.

I know it's going to take time, but I want to emulate those before me with a proven track record of success.

I also will be taking the CISM in June and the CISSP in August.

H3||scr3am

Well my first thought is if you finish with more time on your term @ WGU, transfer to the MSISA program and try it out for no fee, you could also pickup the CEH and CHFI for free as resume fodder if you chose too... they certainly wouldn't hurt your chances/resume appeal

but I'm interested to see what others have to say.

H3||scr3am

philz1982

I'm gonna piss a lot of people off here but the truth hurts...

Don't get a Masters from WGU. I don't have anything wrong with the program at all but there are just to many hiring folks who have no clue what a WGU master's degree is.

For a Bachelors it's fine b/c no-one really cares about a Bachelor's, but for Masters try for UofILL, MIT, CMI ect.

The only reason I went DSU is cause I wanted the experience and they are dirt cheap. I didn't go to DSU for the name recognition.

As for MBA's do Kelly or UT Dallas Online those are awesome MBA schools and Kelly has a combo MBA/MS Analytics combo.

or you could just your CISM, CISSP, and CISA and call it a day do it for 5 years and go after your CISO cert.

And for those who are down voting my post, maybe you should read what I have underlined and put in bold as an added bonus I even put it in a pretty blue color for you.....

N2IT

I always felt if you did it right the first time and graduated from a great bachelors program you wouldn't have to get a masters.

I ended up doing the WGU MBA, and the only reason I ended up getting it was because my bachelors was rather flat management degree from the school of business at MSU.

I felt if I would of went for CS, Actuarial Studies, Finance or something that focus more on hard skills I wouldn't of had to get a masters and spend more money. Business admin, management etc degrees are nice but mostly focus on a lot of theory based operational / project management classes.

80/20, Pareto, GANNT Charts, Behavioral science, leadership, communication channels, etc.

While these are nice skills, they can be picked up in a single book if not, two books tops.

Just my take.

philz1982

N2IT wrote: »

I always felt if you did it right the first time and graduated from a great bachelors program you wouldn't have to get a masters.

I ended up doing the WGU MBA, and the only reason I ended up getting it was because my bachelors was rather flat management degree from the school of business at MSU.

I felt if I would of went for CS, Actuarial Studies, Finance or something that focus more on hard skills I wouldn't of had to get a masters and spend more money. Business admin, management etc degrees are nice but mostly focus on a lot of theory based operational / project management classes.

80/20, Pareto, GANNT Charts, Behavioral science, leadership etc.

While these are nice skills, they can be picked up in a single book if not, two books tops.

Just my take.

See that's the key point, you went to get skills, the same reason I went to DSU. I didn't go to DSU for name recognition, I would have went after Stanford or CMI. I think skills are fine but if your trying to break into the big 4 with a WGU MBA it is very unlikely. Just like me using my DSU MSIS to get hired at Google.

N2IT

I think small or mid size companies WGU Masters is fine and even fortune 500 corporate position, depending on the the role.

But once you start to get into director level roles or beyond I think WGU can hold you back to be honest. Of course if you an outlier and you are super brilliant with impeccable social skills and possess a high success rate of delivering, it may not matter. But...... On paper as you make your way to the top the ceiling becomes smaller and smaller with a WGU or small school on line format.

philz1982

And based on the OP's goal of management and 100k+ salary he should look into, imho, a school that at least has state in the name. Like Arizona State or heck even Dakota State although I think Arizona is much more recognizable and is an affordable to 50 MBA online.

On the flip side, I got to 100k without even a Bachelors Degree or Certification by tying myself to sales people and helping them close business so it can be done.

aftereffector

I'm going to agree with phil, and I'm almost halfway through my MSISA at WGU. It's the best value out there in terms of cost if you can accelerate the degree into one or two terms, but if your goal is high-level management, you will likely get more out of your degree if you get it from a widely known institutional brand.

On the other hand, if you need a degree NOW, WGU is hard to beat.

philz1982

See I don't disagree with that comment either. Like I said I have nothing wrong with WGU it's just that very few hiring managers or even general managers know what the degree is. Especially once you move outside IT and into the business realm there are very few folks who know what WGU is, which kind of sucks b/c I think skill based learning is better than taking courses that have no direct impact on career performance.

doobu

N2IT wrote: »

I always felt if you did it right the first time and graduated from a great bachelors program you wouldn't have to get a masters.

I ended up doing the WGU MBA, and the only reason I ended up getting it was because my bachelors was rather flat management degree from the school of business at MSU.

I felt if I would of went for CS, Actuarial Studies, Finance or something that focus more on hard skills I wouldn't of had to get a masters and spend more money. Business admin, management etc degrees are nice but mostly focus on a lot of theory based operational / project management classes.

80/20, Pareto, GANNT Charts, Behavioral science, leadership, communication channels, etc.

While these are nice skills, they can be picked up in a single book if not, two books tops.

Just my take.

True. A good operational management book and formulas book will give you most of that. 30-160 bucks, tops. If top tier jobs are goals, I think a more solid program would be beneficial. My accounting degree...I use it in some capacity every day, in either analyses, budget meetings, from helping co-workers on their own financial advice seeking. It weighs much more heavy than a simple business management degree. Our level of math and financial analysis went further. Did we deal with people more? Sadly, no. :P

You can do whatever you put your mind to. Your skills to. But, perception is a big thing in business. Unless you're outstanding and utterly brilliant, WGU will hold you back for now (at least until they get the recognition they have earned/deserved).

N2IT

@ Doobu

Between my MBA fundamental books and my Principles of Finance book I have enough accounting and finance knowledge to handle anything that may come my way in my current position and future positions that may come up.

I just keep reviewing them both from time to time and I continually learn more and fine tune everything else I have. It's really important for my career track

FYI thanks for chiming in.

hurricane1091

I'm hoping to become a CIO one day. I was just going to do WGU MBA IT Management. I have definitely thought about the name thing though. What else out there is affordable/worthwhile? My CIO has a BS and MBA from Phoenix FWIW

philz1982

I've heard good things about University of Arizona's Combo MBA/MSIS its 43k

MBA Online Degree | UA Online

hurricane1091

philz1982 wrote: »

I've heard good things about University of Arizona's Combo MBA/MSIS its 43k

MBA Online Degree | UA Online

Great, I will check it out. I'm just starting WGU now so I have a year or better but it's never too early to think about things. I believe you can become an upper level guy without a MS/MBA from a major school (am aware of some with just a BS) but you'll need more job experience and personal skills, and will probably be working for a smaller company.

I would definitely agree that there actually is something in a name though. I never used to but I do now. I'd like to know if anyone with a MS/MBA from WGU has become a CIO/CTO/VP/Director etc. Would be telling.

aspiringsoul

Phil,

I would have to say that I agree with you. I certainly didn't select WGU based on name recognition. I selected it over DSU because I like the competency based, self-paced approach. I don't think that a MS from WGU will lead me to a C level position at the top 4 any time soon. However, that's not my career goal, and that's not what I expect. Although for a person with more ambition, I think that it would easily be possible to achieve a C level position with a degree from WGU.

I literally took a month off school when I bought a house, moved, and worked overtime (my parents moved during the same month to the town that I had just bought a house in as well). Had I been enrolled in a traditional program, I would not have been able to do that.

I also wanted to earn the CEH and CHFI certifications (even though they're not the most respected certifications in the security industry), and WGU includes the vouchers, access to iClass videos, the Matt walker book, and iClass labs in the cost of tuition (which is an excellent value for the money!).

I'm also paying out of pocket since I wanted to avoid getting additional student loans on top of my undergrad loans. Cost was a major factor and I was looking for the most inexpensive option possible. My choices came down to WGU and DSU, and I ended up choosing WGU since the competency based approach just appealed to me more.

In the future, I don't think that my choice of WGU will impede me from opportunities that would have been accessible had I chose DSU instead (unless I'm applying for a position in Dakota). Will I lose out on opportunities when competing against Norwich, Stanford, or Carnegie Mellon grads? Probably, but their salary requirements might also be significantly higher along with their student loan payments. Although I would have to say that unless I relocate, I probably will not be competing against Ivy league grads anyway.

Now, If I'm unfortunate enough to have to compete against somebody like philz (who is working on two masters degrees simultaneously), then I will be at a significant disadvantage.

My advice guys, make the best decision you can at the time with the information that you have available.

I still think that having a Masters from WGU is worthwhile if it fulfills one of your personal goals, if it satisfies a check box for HR that's needed to apply for a position, and if you are attracted to the competency based education model. They are non-profit and regionally accredited, and I think they're obviously a much better option than for-profit schools. I'm hopeful that WGU will have more brand recognition in the future. I would definitely recommend WGU to most people, however for those who aspire to be compete with Ivy league grads...you will probably have a tough time without high level certs and work experience.

UMUC sounds like a great school, but it costs twice as much. Is it worth twice as much money? For me, it's not....but if it is for you, and you can afford it, then go for it.

philz1982

I am struggling with cost right now as I consider going to get my MBA in the fall next year. I've been eyeing Kelly School of Business but I really don't want to pay 61k.

dou2ble

A lot of good points here so I'll just add something short. I don't think any of those Masters alone will get you into six figure management. I think experience plus the CISSP or CISM will be the faster and optimal route. I didn't need a masters and instead relied on experience and certs. My opinion on those masters is a lot of theory and not enough real life application. I've seen some graduates who can't pass the CISSP and don't know basic incident response, disaster recovery, pentesting tools, security hardening etc...Managers don't have to be the best at hands on execution but should be familiar with all the tools and which one to pick without needing to google it. How do you lead if you can't make the best decision in a reasonable amount of time?

Another school is National University that is now offering a Masters in Cybersecurity online and is also on NSA list. This one is more technical and better suited for those who want to learn IT security and not just a bunch of theory. I've heard a lot of good things about it.
https://www.nsa.gov/ia/academic_outreach/nat_cae/institutions.shtml#ca
Master of Science in Cyber Security and Information Assurance | National University

philz1982 wrote: »

I am struggling with cost right now as I consider going to get my MBA in the fall next year. I've been eyeing Kelly School of Business but I really don't want to pay 61k.

Please keep us updated on what you find. I'm also considering MBA or maybe just taking some business classes from a reputable school that I can put on my resume.

anhtran35

"or you could just your CISM, CISSP, and CISA and call it a day do it for 5 years and go after your CISO cert." DO THIS. Then once you get a 6 figure job with 100% tuition reimbursement look for a descent school to get your Masters.

philz1982

Here is something I will add. I was making 6 figures before my Bachelors so the degree's haven't really made a massive difference. Actually it's taken longer to move 20k in the 100k realm then it did to move 50k in the 50 to 100k realm. The thing that is plaguing me, and many others who have moved up the ranks fast, is that I am now in the space where to make 200k it seems as if jobs require 15-20 years experience. I am trying to shortcut this by becoming a thought leader through blogging and racking up certifications and degrees. I am also paying for my degrees so I know how important not racking up debt is. I really am thinking a MBA will be the next step though I'm not sure where I will go.

anoeljr

@OP

Maybe you could do a grad certificate in Business. It should waive many of the prerequisite classes for an MBA program if you choose to do so later and should also give you a good foundation. I'm not in the security realm so I don't have any advice to give regarding that.

Itrimble

Thanks for all of the suggestions. I know that to get to $200k will take time and lots of effort, justification, and accolades galore. I certainly know it won't happen overnight. I've been watching this thread closely, and my opinions have certainly been swayed. I will keep my nose to the grind, and emulate all of the successful people before me. I've now started to look at a lot more state schools than I initially did when I posted the original post, and this has led me to lots of comparing different MBA options.

I'm still definitely pursuing the CISM, CISA, and CISSP. My real plan is to get into management and a six figure income in 2 years or less.
I've got a plan and now all I have to do is stick to it. This thread and others have been paramount to my existing success so far.

I've been scouring online schools and found University of North Dakota.
It's ranked #32 overall and is very affordable.
http://www.usnews.com/education/online-education/university-of-north-dakota-OBUS0740/mba



Once again, thanks to all participants.

aspiringsoul

For those of you considering an online MBA, I believe the AACSB accredited schools would be preferred, although some employers don't really care about the AACSB accreditation.

Please see this list. I want to throw this out there, that an MBA from Morehead State is only $16,050 for ALL students regardless of if you are a resident in Kentucky.

AACSB Online MBA | Best Online Colleges | Best Online Universities | GetEducated.com

aspiringsoul

See, my problem is that I just really don't care about Business....or Finance...

I like the technical side of things....which makes me extremely hesitant about trying to earn an MBA at some point. 20 years from now, I can see myself in a senior technical role, or maybe a managerial role, but I have a very difficult time imagining myself in a C-level position.

I also think there's an opportunity risk by investing my time into an MBA program. Two years spent learning business topics that I have no interest in could be spent studying for certifications and technology that are relevant to my job.

I might consider going for another degree in the future if I can get tuition reimbursement, but I highly doubt it will be an MBA, maybe another Security, or Information Systems degree...

BradleyHU

philz1982 wrote: »

I am struggling with cost right now as I consider going to get my MBA in the fall next year. I've been eyeing Kelly School of Business but I really don't want to pay 61k.

one of my real good friends graduated from Kelly in 2012...he's doing great right now. And he went from doing IT to doing Brand Marketing. Kelly is a top 20 b-school. that $61K will pay itself off relatively quick.

doobu

N2IT wrote: »

@ Doobu

Between my MBA fundamental books and my Principles of Finance book I have enough accounting and finance knowledge to handle anything that may come my way in my current position and future positions that may come up.

I just keep reviewing them both from time to time and I continually learn more and fine tune everything else I have. It's really important for my career track

FYI thanks for chiming in.

Those books have so much usable knowledge in them. That's the problem with a lot of online degrees. You don't get too much higher level applicable skill sets. Actually engaging in a project, teaching a class, etc. All of those are harder to grasp online, with any college one would choose.

I think a bachelors is fine, but for me I'd want to be in a classroom, shake some hands, rattle some cages while in a group. That face to face interaction is what higher level executives will do on a daily basis. Firing someone for the first time was almost nauseating. Nothing prepares you for that, though.

I know people with a MBA from Harvard who makes less than someone with a bachelors. Inherent skills, ability to adapt, to learn, and to push yourself will make your positions for you. Just because you have the degree doesn't make it worth anything. The person has to make it worth it.

I want to pursue a masters in accounting, but I can't judge the cost of it against the CPA. There's just little comparison in terms of skills. It does afford you a bit more money.

With some organizations, degrees and certifications are something that the company can boast on. Whether or not you can succeed is up to you.

I think there are a lot of good points in this thread. There's value in many routes, you just have to choose what your gut says.

doobu

aspiringsoul wrote: »

See, my problem is that I just really don't care about Business....or Finance...

I like the technical side of things....which makes me extremely hesitant about trying to earn an MBA at some point. 20 years from now, I can see myself in a senior technical role, or maybe a managerial role, but I have a very difficult time imagining myself in a C-level position.

I also think there's an opportunity risk by investing my time into an MBA program. Two years spent learning business topics that I have no interest in could be spent studying for certifications and technology that are relevant to my job.

I might consider going for another degree in the future if I can get tuition reimbursement, but I highly doubt it will be an MBA, maybe another Security, or Information Systems degree...

If you're going to be high level, powerful, making decisions, you'll want to get to love business and finance. Those things are crucial in..well..a business. :P

Having an IT guy who knows at least the basics of finance-why we have to defer items on the sheets, the income statements, ROI and estimates etc. is a great asset to have. If he can handle the hierarchy of business and navigate the culture, that's a plus, too.

Whatever makes you the biggest threat- learn it.

N2IT

I hope this doesn't derail the thread, but I must say that after looking at my student loans, I only owe 8,000 left for my MBA from WGU. I'll have that paid off in two years.

For me you just couldn't beat the price is was fantastic. I'm not a slave to the financial system and it opens doors at all large corporations that I have applied too. Including my current place of employment (F20).

I'll be the first to admit the finance and accounting knowledge gained was limited, that's why I continually review my MBA fundamentals accounting and finance book. Whether it is reviewing balance sheets, income statements retained earnings I make it a point to continually hammer myself with these core principals. The biggest risk for me getting skipped over for the big time position is my lack of financial knowledge and understanding the levers that make a company run.

Meanwhile

My wife still owe's 61k on her Nursing Bachelors. Ugh............ It was required though so.........

doobu

N2IT wrote: »

I hope this doesn't derail the thread, but I must say that after looking at my student loans, I only owe 8,000 left for my MBA from WGU. I'll have that paid off in two years.

For me you just couldn't beat the price is was fantastic. I'm not a slave to the financial system and it opens doors at all large corporations that I have applied too. Including my current place of employment (F20).

I'll be the first to admit the finance and accounting knowledge gained was limited, that's why I continually review my MBA fundamentals accounting and finance book. Whether it is reviewing balance sheets, income statements retained earnings I make it a point to continually hammer myself with these core principals. The biggest risk for me getting skipped over for the big time position is my lack of financial knowledge and understanding the levers that make a company run.

Meanwhile

My wife still owe's 61k on her Nursing Bachelors. Ugh............ It was required though so.........

A large amount of those levels are learned on the job. You can learn modeling, cash flows, ROI, costing, inventory all day long, but if you never use it, I think it's useless.

You surely can't beat that price. Most of the times, I've seen, they just want to see MBA after a person's name.

That is the crappy part for nursing now. They're weeding out lower level nursing in favor or bachelors or greater.

What you're doing is good. Reviewing, refreshing. I think that's the true benefit of a certification- forcing you to keep current. A lot of people don't do that, or find a niche and sit in it forever. I love adapting and growing too much to stay put in my knowledge.

N2IT

Doobu, yeah you make some very good points. I'm just looking to stay focused in my space, Supply Chain. Net Indirect, Direct, Indirect pricing, WAC and AWP and the list goes on and on.

Learning how these tie together and how the reports tell a meaningful story is critical to my role. Invoicing, goods of sales, realization etc. This is my first financial BA position. My last two were asset management and marketing / big data.

You couldn't be more correct being forced in this supply chain procurement team teaches so much more than the books. It's crazy how fast you pick this stuff up when you are expected to deliver projects tied to the accounting / purchasing / processes.

doobu

N2IT wrote: »

Doobu, yeah you make some very good points. I'm just looking to stay focused in my space, Supply Chain. Net Indirect, Direct, Indirect pricing, WAC and AWP and the list goes on and on.

Learning how these tie together and how the reporting should review is critical to my role. Invoicing, goods of sales, realization etc.

You couldn't be more correct being forced in this supply chain procurement team teaches so much more than the books. It's crazy how fast you pick this stuff up when you are expected to deliver projects tied to the accounting / purchasing / processes.

Trial by fire is one hell of a learning experience. I'm still SEEKING that. I hate capping out in jobs. It annoys me more than anything because I want to go learn...sadly it won't be paid for. I guess I gotta keep taking the punches. I'm sitting for my CISA exam in June..so..whee!

N2IT

Reminds me what you do. Financial Analyst?