At what point do you just kind of give up?

cyberguypr

Circumscribing the value proposition to money is a bit shortsighted. I've always worked in environments where the IT function is a cost center. How do I add value? By improving customer satisfaction, implementing efficient processes, automating tasks, reducing response time, and a million other things. I can't bring money in but I can help contain cost by extending the life of hardware or software, or perhaps replacing an expensive solution with an open source tool.

Yes, some places want someone just to keep the IT lights on. However, most places want people who can show that they've gone above and beyond and can do the same in their companies. Why cut the probabilities of landing a gig in half?

I gotta say, in my 16 years doing IT at a professional level this is the first time I've heard anyone say that they are just one in the sea of IT techs out there. I just don't see how you can market yourself that way. It is obvious it hasn't been working and a fresh approach is imperative.

beads

Five years back or last two positions is plenty. Rest of the resume screams 'risk taker!' as noticed above. Use some of that new found space to outline your accomplishments and a hint of future goals but no 'career goal' nonsense. Working toward a certificate in 'whatever is related to next position'.

Write a custom resume for each position your realistically applying using this resume as the basis.

No, poker, particularly in if your applying in a conservative area. Good color conversation if it can be worked in otherwise avoid at all costs.

- b/eads

Thacker

Made a few changes based on some of the recommendations here. I had the education at the end but hated how it looked. Added a small summary at the start and removed poker. I compressed the certs as best I could as well given the current formatting.

Some of the suggestions here while I appreciate, are very conflicting. Ill have 2 recruiters call me and tell me a one page resume is terrible and I need to expand on my duties, while others suggest one page. I will have some people tell me to list college first, some to list it at the end....

Tell me what you think of this. At first glance for me this is more pleasing to the eye but I'll take any criticism.





EDIT: disregard the CCENT formatting, just noticed that

olaHalo

Im no resume expert or anything but I dont have a lot of certs or experience and I get tons of calls.
What I did differently in my resume is I removed that top paragraph about yourself.
I only listed really important bullet points. I removed all non-related work history. Remove redundant certs
And I made it fit on a single page.
I can send it to you if you'd like for formatting comparison

But yeah Id say the main issue was your resume

Thacker

I compressed it to one page. It seems so barren compared to before, but what do I know. With 2 in person interviews in 300 applications I am sitting at a .66% success rate.

rsutton

You have a lot of bullet points that say you supported x, y & z. This does not give me the level of detail I would like to see. I will give you an example of how I would write your experience, maybe it will help you flesh out the wording:

Your example:
-Supported many different technologies and hardware including Dell servers (and so on)...

My example:
-Maintained 99.99% up time of all Dell servers by proactively reviewing hardware logs, applying firmware updates, performing daily physical inspections (and so on)...

The subtle differences are: 1) Start with why 2) tell me what you actually did & 3) if possible, quantify the results

Thacker

rsutton wrote: »

You have a lot of bullet points that say you supported x, y & z. This does not give me the level of detail I would like to see. I will give you an example of how I would write your experience, maybe it will help you flesh out the wording:

Your example:
-Supported many different technologies and hardware including Dell servers (and so on)...

My example:
-Maintained 99.99% up time of all Dell servers by proactively reviewing hardware logs, applying firmware updates, performing daily physical inspections (and so on)...

The subtle differences are: 1) Start with why 2) tell me what you actually did & 3) if possible, quantify the results

I appreciate the input, I really do. I just can't help but think if I saw that on someones resume I was interviewing that it sounded like buzzword corporate speak BS. I have no way of backing up that it was 99.9%... it just seems so disingenuous.

N2IT

Thacker just for the record, what does give up mean?

When I think of give up I think of look for another position outside the scope of IT. If that's what you mean by give up I would absolutely give up if I found a position that met a lot of my other requirements.

Just wanted to throw that out there. Waiting around for an IT job when you are capable of another job is silly IMO.

That doesn't mean you have to stop applying, but I found when I hit a cold streak it's best to fall back a little and explore other options.

Mr. Meeseeks

Here you go Thacker. A template you can play with. At one point education was at the bottom, thats why there is another section at the bottom with "Systems", "Languages", and "Software". Might make more sense to have them both in the same location.

Also, i'm not sure if I like CompTIA to the side like that. I was trying to save space, and keep it at one page, but it might "pop" better on its own line. And I realize you will have a lot more information then what I had on my resume the last time I updated it. But I got at least 50% call-backs from the applications I sent out and it landed me my current job.

I think the issue with your latest revision is the jobs kind of look like blocks of text, one after the other. I like the layout of job description followed by bullet point of main responsibilities.

Thacker Resume 2015.doc

Plantwiz

@Mr.Meeseeks,

That looks nice! OP, now does that work does you?

Very concise yet give good information.

DoubleNNs

Why not aim for a Sys Admin job where you primarily do scripting/programming instead of only aiming solely for a Dev job? Would be a good intermediary step, allowing you to more easily pivot into a dev role in the future.

Thacker

^^ if I could be so picky, I would. I am applying for anything and everything sys admin related.

On a side note, after making the changes to my resume I sent out 18 applications that night. Immediately got 4 rejection emails this morning but I have 2 phone interviews and another recruiter scheduled to follow up on a position tomorrow. Just feels so hopeless like things are stacked against me, but maybe that will change.

Wish me luck.

Plantwiz

@Thacker,

My initial response to your comment was, "Cool, two phone interviews!" However, as I take a second look, I do not think that is how you wrote your reply and instead are disappointed at the rejections.

Things like finding the right job simply take time. Not so easy to hear and understand DURING the time of trying to find the right fit, but really it just takes time and persistence on your part. Hang in there! You only need one "yes" and in that quest you will encounter a multitude of 'Nos'.

I do worry you may be projecting your doubt/disgust/disappointment with this process with your interviewers...they will pick up on it and count you out, hence the comment of it is easier to find employment when one is currently employed.

I forget where you are in life (ie just out of college or just out of high school) and if you are within five years of either, call up the placement office/guidance office and see if someone locally can help you kick your personal skills into high gear to make the best first impression possible.

Keep going! You are on the right track!

Chev Chellios

Just to pipe in here, good luck with the interviews dude. You have qualifications that a lot of folk here would crawl over broken glass for so keep going. The new resume looks great by the way, a quote that has kept me going through crappy times is this one from Winston Churchill.


"Success is not final, failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts."


Keep going buddy!

scaredoftests

That is great Thacker. Good luck and bring a notebook with alot of questions...

Thacker

@=scaredoftests

It's a linux heavy "devops" style position. I don't have a lot of linux experience outside of home labs and some light training... so I am not sure how it will go honestly. It will be good practice either way. I just hope they don't string me along through 10 interviews and then tell me I didn't get it like the last company.

Anyway, that second phone interview today was a hoot honestly. I didn't get a call at the time the guy said he would call, so 30 minutes later I emailed him asking if he'd like to reschedule and he called me immediately. Not one... not two... not three... but four times he interrupted my answer I was giving him to a question because "he had to respond to this support request immediately" and I'd hear him pecking away at his keyboard for a minute or so. He hated the fact that I was in school because there was no way someone could be a "senior engineer" if they couldn't devote 50+ hours a week to the job..... and that he'd only be comfortable bringing me on as a junior style admin because of that... blah blah blah.

Over it.

scaredoftests

10 interviews? that truly sucks.

Thacker

EDIT: removed the quote since PlantWiz hates that forum feature.

I've been in IT since 2005. Either doing my own thing, contracts... or at formal employers. How do you figure I don't have that much experience?

Some of these comments people. Seriously.

cshkuru

Dude, I think you need to take a serious look at your attitude. 300 submissions with 2 responses before making the changes people suggested (a 0.6%) success rate vs 2 possibly 3 for 18 after (an 11 to 16% success rate) that is like an 1800% increase in response but instead of being happy about the improvement and trying to figure out some other ways to make things better you are bitching about how hard life is. Get your head on straight.

shortygirl

How to network:
1. Go to software development meetups...or any IT meetups!... in your area. Regularly.
2. Find a mentor from that pool, and keep going to meetups.
3. Connect with professionals in your area on Twitter and LinkedIn. Especially Twitter. Chat with them.

I'd also suggest getting some kind of side project going on GitHub to point to. Fiddle with a website or something. Build an app. Show that you are serious.

Do you know what type of programming you're looking to do? I can tell you that in my area (midwest), JavaScript and Java devs never want for work.

Best of luck to you.

shortygirl

Anyway, that second phone interview today was a hoot honestly. I didn't get a call at the time the guy said he would call, so 30 minutes later I emailed him asking if he'd like to reschedule and he called me immediately. Not one... not two... not three... but four times he interrupted my answer I was giving him to a question because "he had to respond to this support request immediately" and I'd hear him pecking away at his keyboard for a minute or so. He hated the fact that I was in school because there was no way someone could be a "senior engineer" if they couldn't devote 50+ hours a week to the job..... and that he'd only be comfortable bringing me on as a junior style admin because of that... blah blah blah.

Blargh. I dislike when interviewers say they're uncomfortable with a candidate going to school. It's the candidate's job to worry about that. The job comes first... the candidate isn't dumb. He/She will make it work. It's usually something that they'll say when they want to pass but don't want to be challenged on it.

Thacker

@shortygirl

I have a github with an app I wrote and some other work on there. However I haven't done much programming the last two months as I've been focused on updating some certs. I also have a wordpress site I threw up just to become familiar with the technology and it's something I can mess around with. Java / C# has been my primary focus and the software development track from WGU that I am enrolled in focuses on Java primarily.