Contract to Hire Question

nathandrake

I was offered a position today as a security analyst making 12k more a year. I currently do desktop support, so this is something I'm very excited about. However, the position is contract to hire for 6 months. I've been employed at the same place for over 14 years now. I'll admit I'm a bit nervous leaving a place where I know I have a safe job (for the most part) for a contract that runs the risk of expiring and them choosing not to keep me for whatever reason. I'm 35 with 3 kids, so that's where my concern is stemming from. I'm worried how I'll provide support for my family if this contract thing doesn't work out in my favor.

Am I just being paranoid, or is contract to hire pretty normal these days? Keep in mind that I've been at the same place for almost 15 years, so pardon my ignorance on the topic.

SpetsRepair

It depends on what you want in the long run. You might be able to learn and apply a lot more in the new job and that's a big benefit

However from my experience the thing with contracts is they get you in there for 6 months maybe a year and than you're on your way out the door. That promise of maybe being extended doesn't mean much, once the companies needs are met they can get rid of you or keep you on a permanent direct hire basis.

TheFORCE

nathandrake wrote: »

I was offered a position today as a security analyst making 12k more a year. I currently do desktop support, so this is something I'm very excited about. However, the position is contract to hire for 6 months. I've been employed at the same place for over 14 years now. I'll admit I'm a bit nervous leaving a place where I know I have a safe job (for the most part) for a contract that runs the risk of expiring and them choosing not to keep me for whatever reason. I'm 35 with 3 kids, so that's where my concern is stemming from. I'm worried how I'll provide support for my family if this contract thing doesn't work out in my favor.

Am I just being paranoid, or is contract to hire pretty normal these days? Keep in mind that I've been at the same place for almost 15 years, so pardon my ignorance on the topic.

Your concerns are legitimate. If you want to go the InfoSec route, do it for a position that is permanent. I understand your situation, trust. I was offered similiar positions but did not accept any of them because of the contract deal. 6 months, 12 months, go by pretty fast and your family will need a steady income to support themselves. I personally would not do it. If you want to leave your company, look for something more stable. Your certifications will get you a permanent job without the need of contracts. They hold water in Infosec.

greg9891

Hey if I were you I would not leave your Sure salary for something with alot of uncertainty. I am in a similar situation but am going to take it because i'm employed as a security officer. this would be my first official gig with a large I.T company because I have worked in the past with a lot of smaller ones. My advice would be to stay at home until something better comes along. All the best.

nathandrake

Thanks for the info everyone. I brought up the concern to the hiring manager and he said that contract to perm is how they have always done it, but he has every intention of bringing me on full time. He said he's willing to change it from a 6 month contract to perm, to a 3 month contract to perm to help ease my mind. Part of me is still a little worried, but the other part of me knows that this could be a break to finally get into the security field.

Dakinggamer87

SpetsRepair wrote: »

It depends on what you want in the long run. You might be able to learn and apply a lot more in the new job and that's a big benefit

However from my experience the thing with contracts is they get you in there for 6 months maybe a year and than you're on your way out the door. That promise of maybe being extended doesn't mean much, once the companies needs are met they can get rid of you or keep you on a permanent direct hire basis.

That was my experience with contract work as well. It's a tough decision but if it were me in your position family comes first. Keep us posted.

scaredoftests

Stay where you are..

coreyb80

Speaking from experience I left my job of 6 years for a contract position in IT. I like yourself have a family as well so it was a tough, but funny thing is my wife told me to take the leap of faith and I did just that. I was on contract from August 2013 until April 2014 then I was hired on full time. If this is something you really want to do then follow your heart. Blessings on the journey either way.

HailHogwash

nathandrake wrote: »

He said he's willing to change it from a 6 month contract to perm, to a 3 month contract to perm to help ease my mind. Part of me is still a little worried, but the other part of me knows that this could be a break to finally get into the security field.

Sounds like they really want to work with you. Might need to talke that leap of faith plus you never know how long it will take to get another opportunity into Infosec.

SaSkiller

If this is with the company i'm thinking it is (Start with a D?) then you will be hired assuming you don't have any... issues. This is just how they hire a majority of their analysts. They have hired every one of us who were all CTH.

ImThe0ne

This is the way we do the IT hiring (except for upper managerment, etc). Engineer level, Support, all of it comes on as contract first. If the company is a large, reputable company AND the manager is willing to bump it from 6 to 3 months, I think it shows they have every intention of hiring you. This is quite common for the larger organizations. We have 250K+ employees, to give you an idea. I have done 2 contract-to-hires and both went well. If you are good at your job, show them you are working hard to learn the environment and become a needed member of the team, I don't see it going badly. The only thing I would question, is are they replacing someone or adding a new position? If they are replacing one, definitely think about it hard, if they are adding a new position, then that would be another uncertainty. I have seen people get cut from contracts of new positions because of "Budget issues" and they decided they couldn't afford the new position. Not saying that would happen, but it would be a possibility.

From a company stand point, it protects them legally to do as they wish in most states. If you get there and suck they can ditch you a lot quicker than if they had hired you as a permanent employee, they save money on it as well.

Sounds like a decent company, I would think long and hard about declining it. Especially since the mgr is so willing to work with you.

tahjzhuan

I started off with a 3 month contract 10 years ago, considering doing it again.

nathandrake

So here's an update. After a lot of going back and forth I decided to take the position. Figured I wouldn't have an opportunity fall in my lap again like this to get into the InfoSec field so easily.

I started this week. First day one of my concerns about this contract to hire came to light. I was sitting with the department that handles creating accounts/access and disabling accounts to learn about their processes. The guy I was sitting with was telling me that he's always having to extend end dates for IT contractors due to the company constantly extending their contracts. I also saw him disable some contractors accounts too that they didn't convert to perm. So that concerned me right off the bat. I was starting to wonder if I made the wrong decision by quitting my other job.

Well, today my old manager and his boss called me offering me a 15% raise to what my old pay was and additional responsibilities (although he couldn't specify what the additional responsibilities would be as they are still trying to work out details with various groups). They said that too many people at the company was concerned and not happy about me no longer being there. The raise would put me at almost the same pay I'm getting at the new job. I told them I'd need a day or two to think about it. I'm pretty torn again on what to do. I've already committed to the security job, plus I'm getting experience in the field I want to be in. But on the other hand, I'll have a secure job, making pretty decent money, and with tons of perks (a lot of vacation time, pension, matching up to 5% on 401k, yearly bonus, decent benefits).

iBrokeIT

How does going back to your old company advance your goal of working in the InfoSec field?

Danielm7

Leaving a job after 14 years is always going to be hard unless you really hate it, and even then people are reluctant. If you want to get into security you are going to have to leave your old job, "additional responsibilities" without telling you what they are sounds like BS, honestly. Maybe it'll just be additional hours to make up for the 15% raise?

I left a job that was a 5 minute walk away to get into the security field, the commute change alone has been frustrating but even in the first six months I gained more experience in the field than I did in years of self study at my old job. 14 years at any job as desktop support doesn't look good to any future companies, they are going to wonder why you didn't progress, it's only going to get harder as more time passes.

What happened to them changing it to a 3 or 6 month contract to perm? Not to be a master of the obvious, but you do realize any company can let you go for any reason at any point in time, right? You could get a new boss, he could see how he could bring someone in with 1 year of experience to do desktop support, pay them way less and give them less benefits and suddenly you working there could be a "simple decision based on budgeting" or something similar. Not to be a total downer but just pointing out how you should look at the big picture and your end goals. In 5 more years you'll be 20 years at the same company doing the same thing, 40, and even more worried about moving forward, which puts the idea of a security career pretty much out of the picture.

kiki162

Being at any job for 14 years, most people get cozy and don't do much to progress their careers to where they want to...or could go. My last 2 jobs, it seemed like Groundhog Day for most. I saw many employees that have been at their jobs for 20+ years, and are on auto-pilot to retirement.

Personally, if I were you, and I wanted to get into a more perm. job within infosec, you can stay at your new job and work on certs to move yourself into a more perm spot.

Use the time you have, and work towards a few certifications. If possible try getting some OTJ experience that would make you marketable. Also, being that you have a family to support, I'd work quickly since this new job is a little unstable at the moment. Remember that any type of contracting gig is temporary, even if it's for a few years.

BTW, I'm not sure what type of background you have, but I might have some infosec positions available for remote work. Send me a overview of your experience, and I'll see if I have something that might fit. Send me a PM if you are interested.

Robertf969

I have heard so many horror stories of people accepting counter offers only to be let go in 3-6 months. You took the new gig already I wouldn't try to go back to the old, they might just "need" you in the short term while they try to fill your position. If it helps someone told me today that InfoSec is like the good o'l boys club of IT, getting the first position is hard but once your in, the job offers continue to flow. I would make sure you learn as much as possible at your new role just in case you do get the AXE, if you do I doubt you will be unemployed very long.

TheFORCE

You started the new gig wanted to get into Security. Now you see that there are challenges and you are starting to have doubts. That is normal, especially when the old company comes back and offers you 15% raise. Here is the thing though, you accepted the contract positions so at some point you knew you would either be extended or you would have to find another contract. That's how experienced is gain. Nothing is easy in IT man.

ed_003

I would've taken a week off the current job and worked that time @ the new position and see how it goes that I would loose.

Blackout

ed_003 wrote: »

I would've taken a week off the current job and worked that time @ the new position and see how it goes that I would loose.

Yeah no, this is not even remotely ok.

Danielm7

Blackout wrote: »

Yeah no, this is not even remotely ok.

Yep, then if you don't like the new job you just leave them after a week? Or, you do like the new job and you give zero notice to your old job? Sometimes you just have to move on.

I wasn't crazy about my current job at all the first few weeks. It really grew on me, now I like almost all my coworkers, enjoy the work, etc. Just was very hectic and they weren't prepared for me to start before I was actually in the door.

scaredoftests

No, it is not fair to everyone involved. Stay where you are

networker050184

Screw fair, look out for yourself and your family first. Trust me they won't be thinking of fair when time comes to end your contract.

It sounds like you're really stressed out about this which is understandable. I'll never take a contract to hire position for the same exact reasons you stated. Advancing your career is great and all, but stability first and foremost is important when you have a family.

ed_003

employers don't care about u just what u can do for them!! so YES i would take some days off my current job if i was in that situation It will help me make a better decision. Not ok (LMAO ) y not ??!!

beads

Ugh! Most security positions or jobs, I guess if they are low level, generally start off temp to perm or contract to hire these days. Why? Because the abnormally high demand combined with an unusually high number of mid level security practitioners doubling as secretaries and administrators of all stripes. That's being kind enough about the market.

Realize there are going to be people who don't work out; people who don't want to work out; and people who shouldn't work out but somehow stay too long in a position. Sounds like you've hired on to a very large company. Your going to see turn over and new faces just like your old comfy job doing desktop support.

Going back is generally considered to be a bad idea from most others recollections. Safe and cozy doesn't read well on a resume after a few years in IT. You need to constantly show the ability to move forward and accomplish bigger and better things. This is the nature of the beast. Think about what your resume says about you if you were the hiring manager and looking at your resume for the first time for a position one level up from where your at now. What would they "see" why would a hiring manager want to interview you reading the information provided. Be honest.

Be ready and willing to learn everything you can about the network and how it works. It can be incredibly nerve wracking to do so but security sees everything - you just have to be able to open your eyes.

-b/eads

Blackout

ed_003 wrote: »

employers don't care about u just what u can do for them!! so YES i would take some days off my current job if i was in that situation It will help me make a better decision. Not ok (LMAO ) y not ??!!

Burning Bridges. Never ever leave your current job in bad standing. Not only can you never go back there bet you cant never use them as a reference. If your going to live in the world where the employer doesn't care about you BS, then you certainly don't give a crap about your pay check. Burn enough Bridges like this, you will eventually have to move else where because your reputation will proceed you.

As far as the new job, they will have wasted money hiring you, the advertisements, the money paid out to the recruiter. Regardless of what you might believe you can actually get yourself black listed.

There was a guy about a year ago at Cisco took a Red Badge role and 3 months later found out another role wanted to hire him blue, so he took the job with the other team, his old team got wind that he went to another inside of Cisco, he was fired and Blacklisted.

SpetsRepair

Blackout wrote: »

Burning Bridges. Never ever leave your current job in bad standing. Not only can you never go back there bet you cant never use them as a reference. If your going to live in the world where the employer doesn't care about you BS, then you certainly don't give a crap about your pay check. Burn enough Bridges like this, you will eventually have to move else where because your reputation will proceed you.

Quoted for truth

I would know

scaredoftests

Sure look out for yourself, but don't be stupid about it. My motto is 'don't burn bridges'. So, the last two posts are absolutely right.

networker050184

Admitting you made a bad decision isn't burning bridges. If the employer doesn't understand you probably don't ever want to go back there anyway. You won't need them as a reference for a one week gig either.

Now don't go making a habit of it, but everyone makes bad decisions from time to time.

Blackout

networker050184 wrote: »

Admitting you made a bad decision isn't burning bridges. If the employer doesn't understand you probably don't ever want to go back there anyway. You won't need them as a reference for a one week gig either.

Now don't go making a habit of it, but everyone makes bad decisions from time to time.

I agree that realizing you made a bad decision. What I was trying to point out the mentality of his post. That kind of mentality leads to job jumping, the kind of job jumping that can leave a bitter taste. In his case he was talking about accepting an offer from another company, then taking vacation and working the new job for a week then making a decision on staying or going.

ed_003

life is about learning, i have many good ppl at my previous jobs that ive left on not so good terms but still help me because my work speaks for me (i hate Office politics!!!)