Dealing with recruiters

ThomasITguy

This is going to be the guide for dealing with recruiters. I will kick things off on steps to deal with them

1. always be on guard and never negotiate salary ( I tell them I will discuss that in the interview)
2. Don't tell them about any other offers or things in the pipeline (they want to know this so they can contact the employers you are applying to so they can recruit for them)
3. Learn to decipher their emails and email templates
4. Most of them are reading from a script and will sound OVER excited to talk to you
5. Recruiters usually use careerbuilder and linkedin to farm for people to call

Please feel free to share stories, tips, and your own experiences with recruiters.... Special shout out to Jock for the inspiration for this thread!

Djpapeleta360

What I find what every recruiter does is that they asked you what is your current salary. I hate when they ask me this because they want to offer close to what your are making. I told one recruiter what I was making and what I wanted to make and he said " woo, we can't offer that big a pay increase". So now when they ask me that I lie to them about my salary so that they can offer what I want or I just don't disclose the salary at all.

ThomasITguy

Djpapeleta360 wrote: »

What I find what every recruiter does is that they asked you what is your current salary. I hate when they ask me this because they want to offer close to what your are making. I told one recruiter what I was making and what I wanted to make and he said " woo, we can't offer that big a pay increase". So now when they ask me that I lie to them about my salary so that they can offer what I want or I just don't disclose the salary at all.

Exactly. recruiters love to lowball you, but they get paid more for bringing you onto a company. So they will pay you 15.00 an hr and get paid 30.00 for having you work there... but nowadays recruiters really want to press the issue of salary and try to force you to bring it up... I have had recruiters harp and beg me to tell me what I made, and wanted to make. I replied with "I will discuss that with the client in the interview" That got rid of 50% of the recruiters that called me...

ThomasITguy

Here is the difference I see

-Employers that you deal with directly tell you how much the salary is from the job description. Then in the inital call they say "well right now this job pays 25.00 an hr does that align with what your looking for???

- Recruiters want YOU to tell them how much you make so they can low ball you and get you into a job with less pay, and often times its the same job you could have went directly to the employer and gotten.

Legacy User

With recruiters just be stern tell them what you want in the next position. If you are not sure you need to do your research. If they meet what you want then continue the process if they try to weasel you down because of what you make don't waste your time. If they contacted you then they feel your are "PERFECT" for the role so they will try to work with you to get you the rate just so you can say, "Ok submit me".

dave330i

Djpapeleta360 wrote: »

So now when they ask me that I lie to them about my salary so that they can offer what I want or I just don't disclose the salary at all.

Interesting way to start a potential new employment.

JockVSJock

My Advise:

- Never deal with a recruiter. Seriously. I have better things to do with my time as the majority of interactions are negative and nothing ever comes from it.

- We need to education other forum members here because this question come up over and over again (I really doubt this will get the sticky that it deserves).


If you have to deal with them:

- If asked about salary upfront, I respond "Salary is not discussed until a job offer is made"

- I'm very vague when giving them any of my information or don't give them anything.

- I refuse to pass along any of my friend's information when asked if I can give them other contacts. Why should I do their job of building contacts? What type of payment am I going to get out of this?

- If they want me to stop by their office so they can talk to me, I respond, "let's do lunch." If your serious and a true professional, you'll make the time to meet me face-to-face. I've only had one recruiter do this so far out of the thousands of evil ones who have contacted me.

I actually googled around and found a number of hits on how to deal with tech recruiters:

Memo To Tech Recruiters: They REALLY Don’t Like You | Fordyce Letter

The 10 sleaziest tech recruiter scams

fmitawaps

I do not talk to foreigner temp agencies. As much as I don't like even the local agencies, at least they are making jobs for Americans. Whenever a foreigner calls, they start off with "May I speak to", and by this point I am already done listening, as I hear the accent. I just say "I don't talk to foreigner temp agencies, get rid of my number and don't call me again", and hang up.

On the very rare occasion when I did speak to them at all and agreed to let them submit me for a job, nothing ever came of it, no interviews or anything.

There are two job descriptions to any IT job. The one the temp agency tells you, and the REAL one you learn about at the interview or on the first day of work. Most temp agency employees don't have the first clue about IT work, they are just reading off a paper what the job requirements are. Some might know a little, but none know much.

And as I said in another post. I LIE about my salary. I know they will try to lowball me, so I give them more favorable (to me) numbers to work with. Honesty is not always the best policy, and they have no way to prove I am lying anyway.

dustervoice

Ive had about 10 IT positions in my life. 9 of them filled by recruiters. strange thing ive actually had bad experiences when ive applied to companies directly.

JockVSJock

If we can generate enough interest/responses for this threat, it needs to become a sticky.

dave330i

A sticky with terrible advices? I hope not.

YesOffense

I absolutely despise when people unfairly, negatively react to foreign cs centers/service desks. Their prejudice shows and it's off putting. But man, when it comes to the recruiting side of things, I can't say i've had a positive experience with a foreign recruiter yet. Just really odd, impersonal conversations with lowball offers that lead nowhere. I think that's more company policy and procedure than anything though.

ThomasITguy

recruiters are not good at all IMO. its better to go to the source for a job... for example...

A recruiter will say "I have some jobs that you would like please call me to talk about them"

An employer will say "We got your resume and read over it, we would like to set up a phone interview to talk more about the position"

the difference is an employer will interview you, but the recruiter will say "I plan on putting you in for x amount of jobs"

ThomasITguy

YesOffense wrote: »

I absolutely despise when people unfairly, negatively react to foreign cs centers/service desks. Their prejudice shows and it's off putting. But man, when it comes to the recruiting side of things, I can't say i've had a positive experience with a foreign recruiter yet. Just really odd, impersonal conversations with lowball offers that lead nowhere. I think that's more company policy and procedure than anything though.

I have dealt with recruiters that are foreign. Its funny when they call because ALL the jobs they try to offer are lowball offers with no benefits!!! But I can get a job by myself and it will have benefits. I believe they just put in key words to get hits, then email the people that they get hits on... most recruiters do this anyway so do not be alarmed if you get spam emails from them as well....

JustFred

Just read the offer, then delete.

JockVSJock

dave330i wrote: »

A sticky with terrible advices? I hope not.

Well, if you have better advice, let's hear it.

ThomasITguy

Yes let us hear this "better advice"

Iristheangel

dave330i wrote: »

A sticky with terrible advices? I hope not.

I spit up my soda on this one. LoL. Touche, sir. :P

Iristheangel

YesOffense wrote: »

I absolutely despise when people unfairly, negatively react to foreign cs centers/service desks. Their prejudice shows and it's off putting. But man, when it comes to the recruiting side of things, I can't say i've had a positive experience with a foreign recruiter yet. Just really odd, impersonal conversations with lowball offers that lead nowhere. I think that's more company policy and procedure than anything though.

I'd agree with you there. If someone has an accent, it also doesn't mean they're in another country. It may mean they came from another country at some people but hell... that's not enough reason for me to stop talking to someone.

Iristheangel

I'll throw my 2 cents in:

- As far as "not dealing with recruiters," that might be possible if you want to limit the jobs you'll be exposed to but some larger companies and roles literally will not offer a direct hire option. You can reach out to them all you want but that doesn't mean that they are going to direct hire you. There's a reason for this: There's legal liabilities to taking on a new employee that can be offloaded by "trying before they buy." If they take on a contractor for a couple weeks and find it's not working out (bad attitude, bad odor, bad work ethic, whatever...), they can cut ties and end the contract easily but if they take on a direct hire, it gets more sticky than that. They open themselves up to potential litigation if the person decides to sue for wrongful termination, they might to pay unemployment, might have to build a case first, etc etc etc. Also, depending on the company, a contractor is seen as coming out of a different cost center in terms of payment. Employees are seen as a "permanent expense" while contractors are not - this plays big into yearly budget and that particular team might only have X amount for permanent expenses that year but X amount for reoccurring costs and it takes time to get a req open for permanent acquisition.

- For the people saying that recruiters are just looking to find out how much you get paid so they can lowball you, direct-hire HR folks will ask you the same thing for the same reason. Don't be fooled into thinking that HR is magically looking to pay you the most for any given role. While you might be able to flat out refuse, let's say you come across your "dream job" working for your "dream company" but the requirements for submitting your application is to give a work AND pay history, what do you do? Are you going to blatantly disregard the written instructions and pretty much let HR know you're incapable of following directions before they even call you in the first place? What if your dream job won't even hire you if you don't disclose? While it might be possible to offload that question, sometimes you might find yourself in a position of losing your offer. It might be easy to stick your heels in and say "Well, I didn't want to work for a company that requires me to share that information," but the reality is that a lot of the larger and better employers might require that so it seems silly not to have a contingency plan in place if you REALLY want the job. Learn to negotiate - It'll help you in the long run. I recently had to do the same thing at my current employer and while I'm sure I probably made my boss and my boss' boss cry a little (Sorry, still love you guys!), it REALLY worked out for me. Example of negotiation:
"Sure, I did actually make X amount at my last employer. I'm aware I was underpaid given market value and based on some of the offers I've been receiving and the fact that I won't have the same benefits if I'm contracting, I think the range I'd be looking for in the position you're offering is Y to Z... though if you're going to offer me Y or the lower end of the scale, it'd have to be for a REALLY compelling reason to give up my FTE job with benefits or pass on some of the other offers receiving."
While I'm never for being a complete egotistical jackass, but if you know you're good at what you do and you know you deserve that higher rate of pay, back it up in your conversations with recruiters, HR, whatever. Owe it. Ok... if you had a FTE job with benefits that was $100K/year and the recruiter tries to offer you $110K for a contract gig, bring them back to reality by explaining that $110K isn't paying you more because you'd be giving up stocks, health insurance, dental, PTO, etc and market rate may be $150K for FTE employees so you know that it wouldn't be a good deal to take that initial offer and be honest about it. Always be in control of the situation in negotiations with recruiters or employers.

- Lying - Don't do it if you can avoid it. Many employers and recruiters I'd dealt with in the past made me sign a release form to contact my previous employers for a reference or to verify my work history and every single time in the fine print of that release form, it said that I was allowing them to verify pay as well. You get caught in a lie at this step, kiss off that job.

dave330i

Here are some better advice:

Lying about current salary - If you're willing to lie about your salary, what else are you lying about? We tend to round up to the nearest 5's or 10's, but lying? Don't do that. It questions your integrity. Do some online salary research in your area, then tell the recruiter what your new salary requirements are. If they want to know what you're current salary, tell them. What's important is how much you want to make, not what you're currently making. If they complain about the salary increase, you politely end the conversation and hang up the phone.

Talking about salary at the end - NO! It should be 1 of the first things to discuss. Interviews are time consuming for everyone involved. Normally, you should be interviewing for a position that pays MORE than your current position. The only way to know this is if you talk salary at the beginning.

I like working with recruiters. They have the contacts and will do the legwork I don't want to do. Many don't care about your best interest, but they won't get paid unless they place you, so they're a decent advocate. Think of them as your agent.

Iristheangel

@Dave - I forgot to add that in my advice as well. I completely agree with talking about salary upfront or at least talking about range. It'll save EVERYONE time and the reality is that any employer or recruiter has a set budget they have to work with. There is a slight chance that they might be willing to go to bat by going to the employer and asking for more for someone truly special but it's extremely unlikely. The reality is that you'll cut through a lot of the BS and waste less people's time if you set the expectations of this upfront. Joelsfood on here is a perfect example of this: He have a rate of pay in his mind and wants to work from home. Every time a recruiter calls him, he gives them what he'd like and ensures that he states that working from home is a mandatory. The recruiters that can't comply quickly get off the phone and there's no hard feelings or misrepresentations but by putting it directly out there, if someone actually can pay him more than what he's getting now AND be able to give him a WFH job one day, he'll know really quick and without wasting cycles

JockVSJock

Iristheangel wrote: »

I'd agree with you there. If someone has an accent, it also doesn't mean they're in another country. It may mean they came from another country at some people but hell... that's not enough reason for me to stop talking to someone.

I have no problem with someone with an accent, however if they unable or incapable of understanding what I'm asking or saying, what is the point? All they want to do is meet their quota. Where is the quality? Where is the customer service?

I had one contact me to relocate from Omaha to Phoenix, AZ. for a job that only paid $14 and no re-location. I kept saying I'm making way more money then what your offering and your not offer not re-location, why are you contacting me? I don't live in Arizona. What's the point?

He kept asking me if I wanted to interview...and I hung up because I know he couldn't understand what I was asking.


Listen, this is my career, and most of us already work in psyochpathic, cut-throat, and toxic work environments. Mix in recruiters and it makes it even worst. I'm not trying to be negative, I'm just relaying my experiences here.

The point of this thread is to help those navigate the ins and out of recruiters, since this question comes up over and over again on this forum.

IronmanX

How do 3rd party recruiters get paid?

So there are recruiters hired by the company. That seems pretty straight forward on how they get paid (probably employed by said company or paid a fee to find people).

I worked for a contracting company for years. Basically they bid on, mostly government, contracts and if they win they supply the works. The government pays the contracting company the contracting company pays the employees at a lower rate. The good contracting companies will offer to hire you as a sole proprietor at a 80-20 split or you can be employed with the contracting company and get some benefits but then its not a 80-20 split. With government contracts it is public knowledge on how much the winning big is (usually they post the top 3 bids).

So if i'm understanding what i'm reading on here that some recruiters take a split of your daily salary. How does that work?
Some recruiter goes to a company I have a guy for you but I want 20% of there salary while they work for you?
I can see a bunch of problems with that. #1. Your either going to be paying 20% more in wages for this employee or paying this employee less then they should be getting. #2. How long does this go on for?

Iristheangel

The original comment was in regards to if the guy/gal hears an accent, they're already done. I'm sure there are US-born and non-US-born recruiters who don't understand and lowball all over the place. That's part of wading the BS job market that we all have to do.

As far as sticking this thread, ehhhh... the questions do come up a lot and it's good for the newer forum folks to get input on it but the opinions on how to deal with recruiters and the job market are so divisive in every one of these threads. Like we have some folks who say NEVER deal with recruiters? Or advice to lie to recruiters/employers? Or don't negotiate salary?

Maybe it's different in certain parts of the country... I'm in a "hot" IT job market and I know every single one of my clients is hurting hard for good talent. I know a couple of my clients are even on this forum and probably reading this if they want to jump in but a lot of them have a non-negotiable of going through recruiters FIRST and they will disqualify you without prejudice if you lie during the interview process - even if you're Engineer Jesus coming to lead their infrastructure to the promised land. With Facebook, Google, Apple, Cisco, etc, there are certain job roles that they always do contracting first and then onboard later. Not to say they don't have some roles they HAVE to do direct but if you want to get your foot in the door at these companies or you want one of these roles, contracting is literally the only way you're going to get that foot in the door. If you have a problem with that or want to dig your feet in the ground and not give your previous salary history, ok... that's fine. They have thousands of other resumes from people wanting to get Google or Cisco or Facebook on their resume and you can kiss off that opportunity. And if you want to say "Well, that's not a place I'd want to work anyways if they require that..." - Ok, well, a lot of those companies were voted best place to work and have amazing benefits, pay, and opportunities that open up once you get hired. So sometimes if you want the leg up and the kick start in your career, you might have to suck it up and deal with recruiters as if they're the only way into this company because they might be.

kohr-ah

I am not the biggest fan of them either. Especially the last one I dealt with (who called me drunk last week).

However, A lot of companies use them even with internal HR so they don't have to filter through resumes so much. Some are good. Some are bad. It just depends the recruiter.

I would use them again if it was for a job that they were the only way of getting into.

Dealing with them:

• Tell what you are looking for up front. They are there to fill a position but they need to see if you are worth that position (reminder this is dealing with ones that don't suck).
• If they submit a job that is towards your skill set but not what you are looking for tell them why. They will find someone else to fill the roll but that way they don't keep submitting you crap roles.
• Agreed with above that accents I don't care. I care about the job. Don't send me a lowball role for a generalist who has 10x years of XP in everything known to man for $21 an hour. Someone who needs work will take it but I don't have interest and I tell them if they call me and just hang up.

Bokeh

Some companies are large enough that they have their own recruiting person(s) on staff. and they just make their salary. Others that employee an outside agency do pay a fee. I did recruiting for two years a long time ago, cut throat business. For full-time jobs, most companies paid our fee of 35% of 1st years earnings, but some would negotiate down to 25% which we do in exchange for more postings from them. So, for a 35k job, we would get paid 12.5k and I as a recruiter would get 10% if it was my job/my recruit. Otherwise I would split with whoever else in the office. We didn't get a salary, it was draw against commission. You hustled your butt off for the temp jobs that kept you getting a normal paycheck and not having to "pay the bank" next time you got a high paying perm position filled.

ANYTIME dealing with recruiter, HR, etc. and they ask salary/hourly making or looking for, turn it back ON THEM! Ask them "what would someone with my education and skillset, experience be expected to make at your company?" Make them quote it first. If they say its xxx and you known your minimum with all things considered (vacation, benefits, salary, etc) has to be xyz, then you can decide if its worth talking further or politely telling them sorry but that is not in my range.

Kreken

To what Iris was saying that some companies go only through agencies... Most of the hedge funds hire only through staffing agencies due to how secretive they are. By posting job requirements, you let your competitors know what technology you use and their use of technology is amazing. There is one hedge fund that uses speech recognition algorithm to do the trading. Let it sink in.. speech. recognition. to trade stocks on the market. Yeah.

dave330i

IronmanX wrote: »

So if i'm understanding what i'm reading on here that some recruiters take a split of your daily salary. How does that work?
Some recruiter goes to a company I have a guy for you but I want 20% of there salary while they work for you?
I can see a bunch of problems with that. #1. Your either going to be paying 20% more in wages for this employee or paying this employee less then they should be getting. #2. How long does this go on for?

You forgot to account for benefits. Benefits are expensive. When a company pays you X salary, it cost the company ~2X to employ you.

BradleyHU

Kreken wrote: »

To what Iris was saying that some companies go only through agencies... Most of the hedge funds hire only through staffing agencies due to how secretive they are. By posting job requirements, you let your competitors know what technology you use and their use of technology is amazing. There is one hedge fund that uses speech recognition algorithm to do the trading. Let it sink in.. speech. recognition. to trade stocks on the market. Yeah.

BINGO!!!!


and i think i know which fund uses that speech recognition algo...

Most of the Hedge Funds, I've interviewed at were thru recruiters....a few of them do their own postings, but majority go thru third party. it sucks having to deal with them, but being that i'm looking for those type of firms, you have to just deal with it...

Iristheangel

dave330i wrote: »

You forgot to account for benefits. Benefits are expensive. When a company pays you X salary, it cost the company ~2X to employ you.

BINGO. Plus if the employee doesn't work out, there's unemployment the company might have to pay + potential litigation. There's a lot of cost and risk to having an employee. It isn't cheap to hire someone and getting good resources requires an attractive benefits package to keep them there long term if they're good talent - because of these costs, companies typically want to cut costs by making sure they hire the right people the first time when they onboard people.