Cables and modules for CCNA lab please.

sferg410

Hello, I am going to put together a lab consisting of the following now that I know what i needed.
1 x 2801 (384/12
2 x 2811 (512/12
3 x 3560

I have the following questions i still need answers for please..
Can I get any 3560's? Someone said I should get the TS but they are a bit pricey.

What modules do i need for the routers and how many of each e.g. WIC-2T's

What cables will I need and how many; ethernet, crossover, console, crossover serial, 9 pin to USB ???

Thank you in advance.

Cisco Inferno

Your best bet is to stock up on $1-2 1 meter cables on ebay. Not sure if they run that cheak on ebay.uk but thats what I did here in the states.
You will want at least 6 straight, 6 crossover (switch to switch labs where you will trunk and use redundancy) and 3 or so T1 crossover cables. Use T1-DSUv2 cards. thats what people use in the real world. They are about $5 each for each of your routers. I haven't seen serial in a router in forever. Also get some console cables if you wish to not unplug it all the time.

clarson

That is on the high end for the ccna. But, it will also serve you well for any other cert you'd like to do.

The 3560 comes in two main version. The "ts" and the "ps" models. the "ps" model have poe. The "ts" models don't. But, the "ts" models have 32mb of flash. And, the "ps" models don't. They have only 16mb.

The version 15 of the ios for the 3560 is about 16mb in size. So, you don't have room in flash to run the ios and have the required I/O buffer space on the "ps" models. The 12.2 version of the ios is just fine for the ccna. But, for the ccnp your going to want switches that are running the version 15 of the ios. And, of course, that is why people want the "ts" models. And, with more demand comes a higher price.

You can also look for 3560V2 and the 3750V2. I buy them for the same price as the 3560 "ts".

clarson

To lab for frame relay, you need serial ports. For the ccna you need 4 ports in 3 routers as a minimum. 2 ports in one router and 1 port in the other two routers. For the ccnp your going to need 10 ports in 4 routers as a minimum. Cisco makes several kinds of serial wics with 1 or 2 ports and with different connector types. And, you will need cables to connect the connectors together.

That being said, it looks like with the new ccna test that is coming out is Sept. will not have frame relay on it. And, I would assume the next ccnp won't either. So, decide which test your going to take. And, if you don't need to know frame relay, you don't need serial ports.

sferg410

clarson wrote: »

That is on the high end for the ccna. But, it will also serve you well for any other cert you'd like to do.

The 3560 comes in two main version. The "ts" and the "ps" models. the "ps" model have poe. The "ts" models don't. But, the "ts" models have 32mb of flash. And, the "ps" models don't. They have only 16mb.

The version 15 of the ios for the 3560 is about 16mb in size. So, you don't have room in flash to run the ios and have the required I/O buffer space on the "ps" models. The 12.2 version of the ios is just fine for the ccna. But, for the ccnp your going to want switches that are running the version 15 of the ios. And, of course, that is why people want the "ts" models. And, with more demand comes a higher price.

You can also look for 3560V2 and the 3750V2. I buy them for the same price as the 3560 "ts".

I have learnt about the mb size difference since posting so no to ps versions. The 3560's I have seen on ebay though have IOS 12.2, how do you get IOS 15 for them???

sferg410

clarson wrote: »

To lab for frame relay, you need serial ports. For the ccna you need 4 ports in 3 routers as a minimum. 2 ports in one router and 1 port in the other two routers. For the ccnp your going to need 10 ports in 4 routers as a minimum. Cisco makes several kinds of serial wics with 1 or 2 ports and with different connector types. And, you will need cables to connect the connectors together.

That being said, it looks like with the new ccna test that is coming out is Sept. will not have frame relay on it. And, I would assume the next ccnp won't either. So, decide which test your going to take. And, if you don't need to know frame relay, you don't need serial ports.

So I will need 4x WIC-2T's??? For frame relay if I do 100-101 exam and 200-101, yes?

sferg410

Cisco Inferno wrote: »

Your best bet is to stock up on $1-2 1 meter cables on ebay. Not sure if they run that cheak on ebay.uk but thats what I did here in the states.
You will want at least 6 straight, 6 crossover (switch to switch labs where you will trunk and use redundancy) and 3 or so T1 crossover cables. Use T1-DSUv2 cards. thats what people use in the real world. They are about $5 each for each of your routers. I haven't seen serial in a router in forever. Also get some console cables if you wish to not unplug it all the time.

OK, but how many T1-DSU v2 cards would I need?
What about frame relay, I understand I need 4 x WIC-2T's for that?

sferg410

Cisco Inferno wrote: »

Your best bet is to stock up on $1-2 1 meter cables on ebay. Not sure if they run that cheak on ebay.uk but thats what I did here in the states.
You will want at least 6 straight, 6 crossover (switch to switch labs where you will trunk and use redundancy) and 3 or so T1 crossover cables. Use T1-DSUv2 cards. thats what people use in the real world. They are about $5 each for each of your routers. I haven't seen serial in a router in forever. Also get some console cables if you wish to not unplug it all the time.

Just looked on ebay UK and searched T1-DSU v2 and there were NO UK results!!

GDaines

sferg410 wrote: »

Can I get any 3560's? Someone said I should get the TS but they are a bit pricey.

You've clearly already seen discussions regarding this and know that you want a model that has 32mb flash (which rules out all PoE models) just in case you want to install IOS 15 at any point (whether that's just to see how different it is, or because you've continued on the CCNP and it's needed).

sferg410 wrote: »

So I will need 4x WIC-2T's??? For frame relay if I do 100-101 exam and 200-101, yes?

No just 3 as they each have 2 ports so one unit in each router gives you the 2+1+1 ports you need. To be honest a pair of WIC-1T's is likely to be cheaper than a single WIC-2T, but on the downside having 2 cards uses up an extra expansion slot. You could go hybrid - fit a WIC-2T in one unit and a WIC-1T in each of the other two, but the cables you'll require to convert between the connector types are more expensive so again you're spending unnecessarily.

I've not looked at the differences between the old v2 101 exam and the new v3 105 exam but if clarson's statement is correct then you could skip buying the serial ports. Personally I'm gonna try to take the old exams before they expire as that's what I've been studying for for so long now.

GDaines

Shame I missed this - a gigabit 3560 that went for 10% of what it's worth!
Cisco 3560G-24ts-s 24 Port Gigabit Network Switch | eBay

sferg410

Which exam I would do will depend on when I am ready. I want to study and at least get the 1st exam done asap and then the same for the 2nd so then hopefully be able to find a reasonable job asap as I am not currently working, so lots of time to study and lab. Based on that I would hope to be ready for 1st exam before 100-105 is started. I also have the book materials and videos etc for 100-101/200-101, so may well need those serial ports.

clarson

Hard to say what it is worth. the listing says it powers on but it is untested. It takes less time to test if is work right than it does to power on. So, what does that say about the seller. Basically, they don't know how to do even a "show flash" command. So, they don't know any cisco commands or didn't want to take the time to run them. What does powered on mean when done by someone that doesn't know what they are doing.

And, on top of that, if you did get a bad unit, it says the buyer pays return shipping. So, you are paying them to test it. Not all that good of a deal if you ask me.

clarson

sferg410 wrote: »

Just looked on ebay UK and searched T1-DSU v2 and there were NO UK results!!

You could always ask the seller of the routers if they have some available.

clarson

There might not be any available now. But, here in the US, we just wait till next week. As there is always more becoming available. And, frame relay isn't on the icnd1. So, you have a few weeks of studying before you would need them.

And, you could always use packet tracer for the frame relay stuff.
http://www.techexams.net/forums/ccna-ccent/118418-how-legitimately-obtain-packet-tracer-directly-cisco-details-inside.html
why pay for something your only going to use a few times.

GDaines

sferg410 wrote: »

Hello, I am going to put together a lab consisting of the following now that I know what i needed.
1 x 2801 (384/12
2 x 2811 (512/12
3 x 3560

What modules do i need for the routers and how many of each e.g. WIC-2T's

What cables will I need and how many; ethernet, crossover, console, crossover serial, 9 pin to USB ???

Okay, let's get into this (Every price listed is a link to an eBay item).

1. ROUTERS:
Why do you want to buy a 2801? Unless you know someone that'll sell you one cheap the best price I can find one tonight on eBay is £34.95 while I've seen 2811's for less, cheapest being £30.00, but this one for £40.00 is a much better buy as it includes a power cable, a CAT5 cable, a console cable and a WIC-1T card. Only thing missing is rack mount ears. Another consideration would be this 2801 at £40.95 which, while it is the most expensive of all the routers, does say it comes with IOS 15.1-4.M6 Advanced Enterprise which you could back up and install onto all your 2800-series devices (subtle hint: please let me know if you buy this as I only have 15.0-1.M9).

2. MODULES:
The cheapest serial module you can buy is the WIC-1T at £6.50 each if three routers is all you're going to inter-connect via serial. If you think you might add a fourth router then why not look at the NM-8A/S card for £18.45 (or a pair of them for just £14.25 each) as one of these with a WIC-1T in each of the other routers works out cheaper. I have one in a 2811 so I could connect all my routers if I really wanted to, though I will admit I've not yet covered frame relay and so haven't tried using it. The most expensive option at £16.95 is the WIC-2T which does have the benefit that it only needs one slot.

Based on 3 routers you'll need either:
4x WIC-1T or...
1x WIC-2T and 2x WIC-1T or...
1x NM-8A/S and 2 or more WIC-1T depending how many routers you want to connect.

3. CABLES:
You'll need at least one console (serial) cable to manage you devices and for initial setup, but if you rack mount your routers in an enclosed cabinet you'll wish you had one for every router. I found a single cable for £1.50, or a job lot of 5 cables for £8.50 from a UK seller. You'll need a PC with a serial port otherwise you'll have to budget for one of the various options open to you (USB-Serial or multi-port PCI or PCI-E card), but beware as not all will work.

You'll want some serial cables to connect the serial cards together, but what you need depends on what cards you've installed. If you've installed a WIC-2T in one router and WIC-1T / NM-8A/S in the others you'll need cables that have different connectors on each end. Cheapest are £4.08 but they're from China and in my experience I wouldn't consider it as delivery usually takes at least a month, but I couldn't find any from a UK seller so you may have no choice. If you buy only WIC-1T and/or NM-8A/S then you'll need at least two of these for £7.50 each (three if you're using four routers).

Then you'll want CAT5 cables. How long and how many again depends on what you're connecting but they're cheap so I'd buy a few. I have some 1m to connect router-to-switch and switch-to-switch in the cabinet, some 3m or 5m to connect to PC's I use to test my lab, and a 15m to connect my router to the home router for my Internet connection.

And of course you'll need power cables, and once again the type depends on whether or not you're using a PDU or just a standard multi-way mains adapter. These are the cheapest standard C13 kettle leads at £1.69 each but you might want to look for short or long cables to suit your needs, or starting at £1.42 you'll find C13-C14 leads to use with a PDU here but beware, I realised after buying loads that I needed at least 1.8m leads in a full 12U cabinet.

GDaines

sferg410 wrote: »

Just looked on ebay UK and searched T1-DSU v2 and there were NO UK results!!

They're not popular in the UK and I'm not sure if we can use them, I think you'd need to buy one of the cards listed below instead. I'm unfamiliar with the cards so don't know if they'd do the same job and anyway, in the UK the WIC-1T cards seem to be the cheaper option:

£17.95 buys you a VWIC2-1MFT-T1/E1.
£25.00 buys you a VWIC2-2MFT-T1/E1 but it looks like it's seen better days.

See my next post which links to another thread in which these are mentioned. Looks like you'd need special cables for them too.

GDaines

UPDATE:

Octaldump's post (#5) in this thread makes for useful reading. He explains how the 'T' cards are faster than the 'A/S' cards so it might be worth looking at them too. However, I've a suspicion that the NM-4T does NOT work in the 2811 which might be why I was looking at a 3745 but beware, they're HUGE 4U devices where the 2811 is only 1U. Not sure if these include flash cards (and therefore have IOS or not) but at £29.99 for a basic unit and £39.99 for an expanded unit they might be worth looking at if space isn't an issue and you can find a suitable IOS file to load if needed.

3700-series data sheet can be found here, and a list of cards compatible with the 2811 can be found here (btw the NM-4T is not listed)

clarson

GDaines wrote: »

Okay, let's get into this (Every price listed is a link to an eBay item).

1. ROUTERS:
Why do you want to buy a 2801? Unless you know someone that'll sell you one cheap the best price I can find one tonight on eBay is £34.95 while I've seen 2811's for less, cheapest being £30.00, but this one for £40.00 is a much better buy as it includes a power cable, a CAT5 cable, a console cable and a WIC-1T card. Only thing missing is rack mount ears. Another consideration would be this 2801 at £40.95 which, while it is the most expensive of all the routers, does say it comes with IOS 15.1-4.M6 Advanced Enterprise which you could back up and install onto all your 2800-series devices (subtle hint: please let me know if you buy this as I only have 15.0-1.M9).

The ios for a 2801 router will not work on other 2800 routers such as the 2811/2821/2851. So, you can't copy the ios between those devices.

GDaines

clarson wrote: »

The ios for a 2801 router will not work on other 2800 routers such as the 2811/2821/2851. So, you can't copy the ios between those devices.

Damn, thought the whole range was the same, so personally I wouldn't buy that particular unit myself then. Thanks for that info.

GDaines

sferg410 wrote: »

Hello, I am going to put together a lab consisting of the following now that I know what i needed.
1 x 2801 (384/12
2 x 2811 (512/12

Check this out, a 2811 and a 2801 with four WIC-1ADSL cards for just £40.00, now that seems like a good buy to me even if it doesn't include rack mounts or any cables.

sferg410

It is late but I have to say now GDaines you are an absolute star. What amazing replies and information and links also.. The reason for a 2801, is info from a site that talks about lab set ups and list various routers and next to 2801 it says "we suggest you have at least one of these..."

https://www.certificationkits.com/lab-suggestions/cisco-lab-suggestions/

Shall I just get 3x 2811's then?

Nafe92014

I would recommend certification kits if your budget allows. I ordered a 1841 with 256/64 from them and just received it today. *beware the shipping costs*

sferg410

I am in the UK and companies who put a kit together for you charge a premium for doing the work. Would rather work it out and save the money. As for an 1841 with 256/64.. why, that is no good for IOS 15... Horribly under powered.

Cisco Inferno

for the T1-DSUv2 cards, get two per router, that way with 3 routers, you have a connection to two others from a single router.
Think of making a triangle.

clarson

1841 works just fine in a ccna lab. The do run version 15 of ios. and performance isn't a consideration in a lab. right now i'm using a lab with them.

sferg410 wrote: »

I am in the UK and companies who put a kit together for you charge a premium for doing the work. Would rather work it out and save the money. As for an 1841 with 256/64.. why, that is no good for IOS 15... Horribly under powered.

GDaines

sferg410 wrote: »

It is late but I have to say now GDaines you are an absolute star. What amazing replies and information and links also.. The reason for a 2801, is info from a site that talks about lab set ups and list various routers and next to 2801 it says "we suggest you have at least one of these..."

https://www.certificationkits.com/lab-suggestions/cisco-lab-suggestions/

Shall I just get 3x 2811's then?

That site is getting a bit out of date now. It talks about the switch from 640-802 (retired in September 2013) to 200-120 (or 100-101 and 200-101), whereas now we're on the brink of retiring the latter starting in August 2016 and introducing 200-125 (or 100-105 and 200-105).

It also doesn't look at 2821 and 2851 routers which are now more affordable, or consider the 3800-series which fair enough are huge beasts.

So, to get to the point, yes, I'd buy three 2811/2821/2851 routers (and try to get at least one of them running IOS 15 Advanced Enterprise.

GDaines

sferg410 wrote: »

As for an 1841 with 256/64.. why, that is no good for IOS 15... Horribly under powered.

clarson wrote: »

1841 works just fine in a ccna lab. The do run version 15 of ios. and performance isn't a consideration in a lab. right now i'm using a lab with them.

I have to agree with clarson on this one, the 1841 is another option to consider although yes, if you want to run IOS 15 on it you're going to have to upgrade from the 128/32 you'll probably buy it with to 256/64. I have an 1841 as Router1 myself, but unless you're picking them up for around £20 each the 2811 probably makes more sense.

sferg410

OK I have discovered that 512MB server memory is dirt cheap, like £5 and a 256MB flash card is £10... Does this sound correct or have I maybe been looking at wrong stuff?

I have decided I will get 3 x 2811 routers, if memory etc. is as cheap as I said then what it comes with does not matter.

Switch advice still needed. 3 x 3560's look good and maybe can get 3 from same place at £45 each. However 2950's can be found for £30 each or less. Would I be better off saving a few £££ and get 3 x 2950's or are the 3560 just much better or is there not a lot between them?

I will also get 3 x WIC-2T's.

How many console cables shall I get?
Thanks

clarson

The memory that comes with a 2811 is unbuffered ECC. Memory used in servers is buffered ECC. So, memory from a server won't work. But, just plain non-ECC memory will work. So, just get some ddr1 pc2700 memory. pc3200 might work too. Don't know where you'd purchase them, but I just go to a computer recycler and get them for $1 each.

And, i'd ask the seller of the routers how much it would be to upgrade the flash card. I bet they would do it for a lot less.
I'd ask about serial wics too.

2950, level 2 switch, runs ios 12.1, good enough the for the ccna, bad for the ccnp, pay less now, pay again for 3560 when going for the ccnp
3560, level 3 switch, can run version 15 of the ios, overkill for the ccna, must have for the ccnp, pay more now, don't pay more when going for the ccnp, buying now you save money if you go for the ccnp, but pay more if you don't go for the ccnp. But, it is probably a wash because you will be able to resell the 3560 after you get the ccna and decide not to do the ccnp.

clarson

sellers usually include one with each piece of equipment you purchase. So, get one for each of them. You are paying for it.

Usually, having 2 is all you would need. but, it nice to have a console connection to each piece of equipment. such as with the equipment your looking to buy, all the ethernet ports are on one side, but power and console port are on the other. So, every time you want to move a console port your going to have to stand up (console port on 1841 is on the same side). But, you probably don't have 6 usb ports available on you computer. Some usb hubs will work, some don't. But, you can always setup a remote login. And, then connect to each piece of equipment via telnet/ssh.

sferg410

clarson wrote: »

sellers usually include one with each piece of equipment you purchase. So, get one for each of them. You are paying for it.

Usually, having 2 is all you would need. but, it nice to have a console connection to each piece of equipment. such as with the equipment your looking to buy, all the ethernet ports are on one side, but power and console port are on the other. So, every time you want to move a console port your going to have to stand up (console port on 1841 is on the same side). But, you probably don't have 6 usb ports available on you computer. Some usb hubs will work, some don't. But, you can always setup a remote login. And, then connect to each piece of equipment via telnet/ssh.

Is there any recommended USB hubs that are known to work?
Console cables are the ones that need the 9 pin serial to usb adapter right? So ideally 6 console cables/6 adapters?