Fresh grad, 0 experience makes 3k more than me. (2 years experience no degree)

NavyIT

The best way to negotiate a higher salary at your existing company is to walk into your managers office with a job offer from another company. Tried and true.

doctorlexus

NavyIT wrote: »

The best way to negotiate a higher salary at your existing company is to walk into your managers office with a job offer from another company. Tried and true.

Ehhhhh.... not sure about this one.

http://www.techexams.net/forums/jobs-degrees/74026-beware-counter-offer.html

powerfool

NavyIT wrote: »

The best way to negotiate a higher salary at your existing company is to walk into your managers office with a job offer from another company. Tried and true.

Yeah... I have a HUGE case of disagree with this. It could work in certain situations, but this is like quiting and getting a counter-offer. It creates a ton of resentment from folks potentially thinking things like: "He is only in it for the money", "He will leave when the next opportunity comes up", etc. And despite how hypocritical these concerns are (because your boss and up the ladder have the same concerns you do), these will lead people to looking to protect themselves in the event that you leave and maybe take preemptive action (seeking your replacement while they lead you to slaughter with the carrot of a higher salary).

tpatt100

I noticed that often it's when you are hired makes a big difference. I just got a call back from an interview I did almost two months ago asking to talk to me again. I noticed the position was still up on Indeed, I think they couldn't find somebody so now I have some extra leeway for asking higher salary if I get offered the job.

NavyIT

powerfool wrote: »

I find it best to use "envy" as motivation rather than an excuse for being unhappy. You have a job... you are enrolled... work on that degree.

My key piece of advice is to avoid that debt. Does the employer offer tuition reimbursement? Take advantage of it and keep a moderate pace... usually they limit you to about 6 credit hours per semester... I was impatient because I started school at a point where I desperately felt I should have already been done... so I was taking 12-16 credit hours per semester in the evenings... not only was it brutal from a work load and scheduling perspective, but since my employer wouldn't pay 100%, I took on loans to cover the difference (at a private school). Now, I did get some scholarships, but it all added up quickly. You don't have to go down that road. Do 6 credit hours per semester (or something reasonably similar), continue during your summers, and look for opportunities to lower the courses you need (like testing out). My biggest problem was not taking advantage of opportunities to test out. I tested out of only one course (a two credit hour course, but the test game me three credit hours) and used my high school foreign language to cover that requirement. I went out of my way to schedule a few courses that I could have easily tested out of because I thought that they would be enjoyable... yeah, not so much.

Maybe it has to do with the industry. I'm in government contracting and it's really common to switch jobs often. If you know your company needs you IMO you have nothing to lose. Of course you have to go about it the right way.

Something like this:

"I've got an offer from another company that reached out to me a couple weeks ago. I really enjoy my position here and appreciate the trust you all have put in me by giving me x,y,z additional responsibilities. I would really like to stay here but what jumped out at me was the salary they offered; it's 10,000 more than what I'm making now and they also seem to have better x/x/x benefits.

I know you can't control the benefits but I was hoping that since I've taken on these additional responsibilities and have been performing well, that we could talk about increasing my salary."

- You need to actually have that other job offer
- You have to know your company needs you
- You have to be ready to accept that other job offer if they don't meet your requirements.

I've done it twice in 3 years and worked both times. My first job out of the Navy I started at 61k and 3 years later (almost to the day) I'm now making 105k. I've got a couple new meaningless certs, but nothing else but experience and attitude has changed.

techfiend

That approach is the most professional I've seen but if you have a job offer that means you at least thought of leaving doesn't it?

clouder

I wouldn't say so. My resume is always out there, even when I'm not looking to leave. I recently started a new job that kind of just fell into my lap with a large pay increase and better insurance. I was fine at my last job, but the new company made this offer hard to refuse.

ITSpectre

NavyIT wrote: »

Maybe it has to do with the industry. I'm in government contracting and it's really common to switch jobs often. If you know your company needs you IMO you have nothing to lose. Of course you have to go about it the right way.

Something like this:

"I've got an offer from another company that reached out to me a couple weeks ago. I really enjoy my position here and appreciate the trust you all have put in me by giving me x,y,z additional responsibilities. I would really like to stay here but what jumped out at me was the salary they offered; it's 10,000 more than what I'm making now and they also seem to have better x/x/x benefits.

I know you can't control the benefits but I was hoping that since I've taken on these additional responsibilities and have been performing well, that we could talk about increasing my salary."

- You need to actually have that other job offer
- You have to know your company needs you
- You have to be ready to accept that other job offer if they don't meet your requirements.

I've done it twice in 3 years and worked both times. My first job out of the Navy I started at 61k and 3 years later (almost to the day) I'm now making 105k. I've got a couple new meaningless certs, but nothing else but experience and attitude has changed.

Eh it depends on the Job.... there has been threads about this about being wary of accepting the counter offer. Because the issue that comes up is... WHY do we have to threaten our employer with something else and say

"Since I have taken on these responsibilities I have gotten an offer from company xyz... this is what they are offering can we talk about increasing my salary to counter that"??

IMO it would be better to take the other job then to continue to ask for a raise etc... from the same company because eventually it can get you jobless. That is like dangling a steak in front of a lion hoping to not get eaten... he will eat you and the steak. And honestly no company really NEEDS you... even if you prove you are an asset to a company they don't need anyone, because everyone is replaceable.

A old co worker told me this "Never fully depend on any company... always have one foot in the door and one foot out... never make a permanent home in a temp situation"

DatabaseHead

@ DoctorLexus

Agree for some degrees, other legit degree programs require rigid acceptance process and requires a lot of intense work and projects. One of our interns here has a masters from Washington University in Supply Chain Management, she has worked on very complex forecasting algorithms / machine learning for fortune 500's while she was a student. I highly doubt there are many if any certificates more challenging than that degree program.

wd40

Betrayal wrote: »

You should not compare yourself to others like that, it will only lower your happiness.

Instead think about what you can do to better yourself, getting educated is a good start.

Exactly!

NavyIT

ITSpectre wrote: »

Eh it depends on the Job.... there has been threads about this about being wary of accepting the counter offer. Because the issue that comes up is... WHY do we have to threaten our employer with something else and say

"Since I have taken on these responsibilities I have gotten an offer from company xyz... this is what they are offering can we talk about increasing my salary to counter that"??

IMO it would be better to take the other job then to continue to ask for a raise etc... from the same company because eventually it can get you jobless. That is like dangling a steak in front of a lion hoping to not get eaten... he will eat you and the steak. And honestly no company really NEEDS you... even if you prove you are an asset to a company they don't need anyone, because everyone is replaceable.

A old co worker told me this "Never fully depend on any company... always have one foot in the door and one foot out... never make a permanent home in a temp situation"

Well the way you worded it and the way I worded it are totally different. Also, you mention threatening our employer which I didn't do or suggest. It's two professionals having a conversation about a career situation and working towards a resolution that keeps both parties happy.

ITSpectre

NavyIT wrote: »

Well the way you worded it and the way I worded it are totally different. Also, you mention threatening our employer which I didn't do or suggest. It's two professionals having a conversation about a career situation and working towards a resolution that keeps both parties happy.

I worded that wrong... I did not mean threaten but my whole point is sometimes to get better you have to move on. In your case it was different but it wont always work out that way though. In life I have found that you can't burn bridges but you also have to do whats best for you and your family... because nobody else can tell you what is best for you but you.

Also NavyIT your name reminds me of that village people song "In the navy you can sail the 7 seas....."

Chevel

Betrayal wrote: »

You should not compare yourself to others like that, it will only lower your happiness.

Instead think about what you can do to better yourself, getting educated is a good start.

This is very good advice and something I need to work on myself.

CCNTrainee

$bvb379 wrote: »

CCNTrainee


To add to this, when I met one of my mentors he said to me that after he got his first IT job he simply was told to apply for other jobs in other companies from colleagues working there. He never applied blindly, he always knew someone at the company he was making a jump to, accompanied by raises of course.

Don't know how I missed your post, hahaha. Also funny how nobody wanted to weight in on this as well.

CCNTrainee

ITSpectre wrote: »

Eh it depends on the Job.... there has been threads about this about being wary of accepting the counter offer. Because the issue that comes up is... WHY do we have to threaten our employer with something else and say

"Since I have taken on these responsibilities I have gotten an offer from company xyz... this is what they are offering can we talk about increasing my salary to counter that"??

IMO it would be better to take the other job then to continue to ask for a raise etc... from the same company because eventually it can get you jobless. That is like dangling a steak in front of a lion hoping to not get eaten... he will eat you and the steak. And honestly no company really NEEDS you... even if you prove you are an asset to a company they don't need anyone, because everyone is replaceable.

A old co worker told me this "Never fully depend on any company... always have one foot in the door and one foot out... never make a permanent home in a temp situation"

It is pretty clear on here that most people don't know the different cultures that is Govt vs Private sector when it comes to these sort of things. Taking a counter offer isn't as harmful as it is on the Private side, Govt Contracting companies are always expecting their employees to leave for a better deal because the IT side is really competitive salary-wise among all the other contracting companies. My current employer sees us an just an number that fulfills the bottom line and will only negotiate a raise if someone has getting pinged for a higher salary job. I don't see how it is a "threat" to the company since there is no loyalty to companies that treat their employees as just numbers and only care about meeting the "quota".

reload@

dave330i wrote: »

@reload@

Looks like you and I are using different metric to measure success.

Everyone does really. The definition of success varies per person.