Illegal in Massachusetts: Asking Your Salary in a Job Interview

cyberguypr

The "should I disclose my salary" topic has been discussed here a few times. One brave state just turned the tables in favor of the candidate although aimed at bridging the salary gap affecting women and minorities.

"The new law will require hiring managers to state a compensation figure upfront — based on what an applicant’s worth is to the company, rather than on what he or she made in a previous position.

By barring companies from asking prospective employees how much they earned at their last jobs, Massachusetts will ensure that the historically lower wages and salaries assigned to women and minorities do not follow them for their entire careers. Companies tend to set salaries for new hires using their previous pay as a base line."

Full story here.

dhay13

interesting. i just tell them i signed an NDA

Remedymp

I'm from Mass (boston proper) and I have posted on here about managers trying to low ball. This is a huge problem. (i'm a minority)

Lexluethar

Minority or not it definitely leaves companies open for lawsuits when two equally qualified candidates make different salaries. Up to this point it's always gray because salary is based off worth, which is hard to measure for new hires (ie no experience and no history of work ethic).

I like this hope other states follow suit.

networker050184

I think not disclosing your previous salary history is nonsense. Don't you want to work for a company that is going to pay you what you're worth regardless? I don't see the point of working for a company you have to hide your history to get a fair shake with.

I'm a well paid white male though so what do I know.

volfkhat

I like this law.
It's None of their beesWax.

Personally, i always choose to LIE

On occasion, the process gets to the point where they ask to see proof (W2, check stubs, etc).

I Decline.

Result: they Threaten NOT to hire me.

Well that's okay too;
because i still got a little bit of satsifaction from Wasting their Time.
(kind of like those 419-eaters)

cheers

UnixGuy

I disclose it, and I ask for detailed description on what I'll actually be doing in the next role. Then I decide how much it's worth (even if it's less).


I ask them what's the range/budget they have or offering. I then decide if it fits my own best interest or not. I get to decide if I want it or not, and I'm up front with them. Nothing personal really. If there is good experience to be had, I might be flexible with a pay cut. If not, then no.


But I'm glad that there are more rules now in favor of the candidate. Employers want what's best for them. I want what's best for the candidate.

Remedymp

One of the other issues they were having is that when asking about previous salary, they would actually contact the employer to verify if this salary was accurate. Just so they won't have to pay what you're asking on this new role.

BradleyHU

dhay13 wrote: »

interesting. i just tell them i signed an NDA

i do this as well...

JoJoCal19

Super happy to see this pass and I'd like to see it at a Federal level so all states must comply. I think it would make wages more competitive for everyone across the board since companies could no longer create artificial wage ceilings by basing new salary off of old salary.

MeanDrunkR2D2

I've been looking around and applying this past week and I've run into a few companies that are requiring that I disclose my current and past salary before I can even submit. I cannot even fudge it by putting in a 0 or NA or anything else. And of course, wanting contact info of my current boss/etc. I'm not going to do that and jeopardize my current job and lose it because some moron called when I didn't want them to. (I had Teksystems actually call an old employer asking about me and why my contract hadn't been extended yet, when I was under contract with another company and was looking for them to find me another job) I damn near lost that job, but luckily a month later I did find something else permanent.

danny069

How would the company know for sure your total compensation from a previous job unless they want to see proof?

Remedymp

danny069 wrote: »

How would the company know for sure your total compensation from a previous job unless they want to see proof?

You used to have either provide it or they would contact your previous employer for that information. For example: Help desk person applying for desktop support position or network support position might have been making $12/hr and the new position might be something like $18-22/hr. Well, the new hiring manager might down play the $18-22/hr to $15/hr as a way to under pay the help desk person because of their status as a minority. Meanwhile offer the White gentlemen the $22/hr because -they can- and -feel like it-.

cyberguypr

I always make it abundantly clear that communication with current/previous employer can't happen under any circumstances. Even if they lied to my face and reached out, chances are the current/previous employer would not tell them anything other than confirming employment dates. With so many lawsuits no one wants to take a risk. In this day and age I would only expect recruiters or really stingy employers to pull shady stuff like this. I doubt a respectable company would play this stupid game.

Danielm7

Remedymp wrote: »

You used to have either provide it or they would contact your previous employer for that information. For example: Help desk person applying for desktop support position or network support position might have been making $12/hr and the new position might be something like $18-22/hr. Well, the new hiring manager might down play the $18-22/hr to $15/hr as a way to under pay the help desk person because of their status as a minority. Meanwhile offer the White gentlemen the $22/hr because -they can- and -feel like it-.

I'm not saying this doesn't happen because of racism, etc. But, I think more often than not the company is just trying to get people as cheap as they can, no matter who they are. "They should be happy with a 25% raise!!" There are too many stories here of people saying they made 55K and then were offered 58K after telling their past salary only to find out that everyone else they work with was hired at 75K.

JoJoCal19

Danielm7 wrote: »

I'm not saying this doesn't happen because of racism, etc. But, I think more often than not the company is just trying to get people as cheap as they can, no matter who they are. "They should be happy with a 25% raise!!" There are too many stories here of people saying they made 55K and then were offered 58K after telling their past salary only to find out that everyone else they work with was hired at 75K.

I agree with this (as a minority) that in IT especially, the case is more so that employers want to pay people as little as possible. I swear hiring managers must get bonuses depending on if they hire people in under the approved pay range or else why would a hiring manager not want to get his people as much money as possible, thus providing justification for eventually getting his own pay/range bumped up?

I think the intent of this particular law is that historically minorities and women make less due to racism/sexism and that even if today it doesn't blatantly happen as much, new salaries are being offered based on unfair old salaries. At least that's how I see the reason behind the law. We in IT just benefit as we suffer from the afore mentioned issue of employers wanting to pay as little as possible for a unique skillset.

networker050184

Danielm7 wrote: »

I'm not saying this doesn't happen because of racism, etc. But, I think more often than not the company is just trying to get people as cheap as they can, no matter who they are. "They should be happy with a 25% raise!!" There are too many stories here of people saying they made 55K and then were offered 58K after telling their past salary only to find out that everyone else they work with was hired at 75K.

Isn't that the person's responsibility to know what they are worth?

mbarrett

My prior employer (not in Mass.) told me they would not even verify basic employment information to someone unless I faxed a signed letter to them myself explicitly granting them permission, and for what particular information. So I guess the laws are different in different states? Or maybe they don't want to risk some kind of lawsuit.
If someone asks me my salary history, I just tell them my salary expectation for the job I am applying for. In the line of business I am in, this has worked. However in other locations or fields with more competitive work force I can understand why employers would want to screen people out who dont want to play their game.
It's pretty shitty, and forces people to either exaggerate their salary in order to get closer to the desired target salary, and risk getting found out (and subsequently fired for lying to HR) or to be honest and risk letting employers set the market to their own convenience.

beads

As a past hiring manager I can tell you that I have offered pretty sizable raises to both females and minorities to close some of the gap. Its already budgeted and within limits, etc. This is IT we're talking about. Nobody gives a rat's rear what you look like, gender or color of your skin if you can perform the job. If not, that's another story. This industry is considered to be the most non-skill blind industry going by HR standards and has been written about accordingly. Disagree? Go find your own research and get back with us.

No, women and minorities, probably due to social programming more than anything else don't negotiate as well. The other problem is that outside of development and DBA. Many times after hours and weekend work is inevitable and not always "family" friendly. I would always state this to be the case when hiring network administrators, engineers and architects. I'd say 60 percent of women fold at this point. Nothing wrong with that but you have be honest with all the requirements. Of course I would never begin to consider asking about how old are your children or planning on getting pregnant? These also factor into the pay differential and hold women back.

Side note. The other factor also holding people back thus pay are the tied to the train or bus commuters. I have to leave by 5:15 or I miss my ride people. This to becomes a bit of a crutch. How can I ask the rest of the team to work overtime, justify the flex time pay because I have an individual who is tied to a train schedule but demands equal pay and time off? That sounds like a "expletive" job as well.

So, I am saying there are other considerations or unintended consequences to this law that will do more to punish a minority of workers more than help others.

The devil is in the details.

- b/eads

jeremywatts2005

Hate to see another law and I am not sure this will help. I have never seen a manager lower salary based on sex or someone being a minority. I have seen the reverse of it handily though. For instance getting calls to see if I know any females in security looking for work because the company is wanting to hire more females into security and they have openings. I also have noticed racial makeups in certain companies and if you are a white guy like me you are a no go. No joke I interviewed with one company and the entire team was comprised of folks from India. The manager, lead and the team members needless to say I never got hired and they checked the box. One thing I do now since I was military is check veteran that way I at least will get looked at. I served 12 yrs in the National Guard so I figure I might as well leverage it.

I myself never discriminate in hiring. I was told by one company I was the best at hiring the most diverse staff. They asked me how I got such a diverse staff, I told them I looked at the resume and hired the most qualified person whoever that was. They about fell over they were thinking I was slanting toward certain groups or demographics.

dhay13

I was in a car accident at 4 years old and have no use of my right arm since then. I do not check any boxes indicating disabilities. I have made it through life this far without using it as a crutch and don't intend to use it in the future but I know that deservedly, veterans and 'truly' disabled applicants have an advantage when it comes to hiring. I just can't bring myself to use that when I have played football, rode motorcycles, etc., and it has never stopped me before.

But all in all, I wouldn't change it because it has made me who I am and given me that never give up attitude. I have the belief that I can do anything I set my mind to and I attribute this to having to figure out different ways of getting things done. This is why I tell hiring managers you will have a hard time finding anyone more motivated and driven than me.

Where there is a will there is a way!

Legacy User

Even if you say NDA once you get the offer they still will have you place your salary on the application and it shows up in the background report if they request it. I used to say the NDA stuff but once I quickly realized the whole background report displays that.

I look for market rate for the years of experience they are looking for an ask for that on the application or in the interview. If any recruiters or HR said oh I can't give you a raise like that since you are making only x I wouldn't even bother with taking it any further because you know they'll be cheap with you in general.

Everyone I was close to thought I was crazy asking for what I was asking for my next role but I knew I was underpaid and knew how much that role pays for. Surely enough I asked for it in my current employer when going through the interview process and they gave me the highest range I was asking for.

Remedymp

I swear hiring managers must get bonuses depending on if they hire people in under the approved pay range or else why would a hiring manager not want to get his people as much money as possible, thus providing justification for eventually getting his own pay/range bumped up?

This has some merit to it. Some managers try to fluff their resume/linkedin or appear in one of the articles by Redmond or Network World and have a quote like "As recent transition to an IT manager, I help save our line of business X amount of money by moving to the cloud and Outsourcing IT resources".

It sounds good in dialogue, but in reality, they end up falling flat like Target did or worse, they end up with a disgruntled employee who now becomes an inside threat to the line of business.

Smh...

Russell77

There is a reverse issue to consider. What if you made too much at your last job? I have changed careers a few times and have had to step back in salary Sometimes you might not get past a screen if past salary was over the range of current posting.

dave330i

networker050184 wrote: »

Isn't that the person's responsibility to know what they are worth?

Stop trying to make sense.

olaHalo

cyberguypr wrote: »

One brave state just turned the tables in favor of the candidate although aimed at bridging the salary gap affecting women and minorities.

"The new law will require hiring managers to state a compensation figure upfront — based on what an applicant’s worth is to the company, rather than on what he or she made in a previous position.

Massachusetts will ensure that the historically lower wages and salaries assigned to women and minorities do not follow them for their entire careers. Companies tend to set salaries for new hires using their previous pay as a base line."

Full story here.

I laughed out loud.
What a bunch of bs

Remedymp

olaHalo wrote: »

I laughed out loud.
What a bunch of bs

Care to elaborate?

Danielm7

Yeah I'm a little confused why someone would be against this law in the first place, from an employee standpoint anyway. Unless i'm missing something it seems all positive. I wish all companies stated comp up front, would save a lot of potentially wasted time.

networker050184

I'm not necessarily against it, I just think it's silly that it's needed in the first place. What happened to being responsible for your own career and compensation?

dave330i

networker050184 wrote: »

I'm not necessarily against it, I just think it's silly that it's needed in the first place. What happened to being responsible for your own career and compensation?

Millennials, participation awards, lowering the bar to make things easier rather than raising quality, etc.

Danielm7

I don't agree, I'm solid gen X and worked hard for everything I've gotten. But, I know that for many companies if you know ahead of time their budget is to 80K and you want 110K, it's not worth even putting in an app, and most places aren't very forthcoming on their salary ranges out of the gate.

As for knowing your value, your value is whatever someone else is willing to pay. If you think you make 100K now, but someone else has a budget to 130K, they might offer you 110K, and some people would be fine with that because it's a reasonable upgrade, but you might be 20K a year under all your coworkers.