Would you accept this job offer? Part 2

Polymorphic28

Sooo, I've posted last month about how I was offered the role as Cyber Network Defense Admin". I denied the job and the recruiter went on his way. They were offering me 52-55K for the position and I'm currently making 65K for a help desk role.

On a positive note, the employer told me they currently work with Acas, Splunk and other tools that I would get hands on experience with.

Well the recruiter contacted me again and asked me what will it take for me to accept the position. I told him that the minimum salary I would accept is 60K. He went ahead and said he can work with that salary! So now I'm facing a dilemma about choosing this position. The new job has no benefits and is currently a contract position.

I'm a federal employee and have quite a few benefits but am currently trying to get out of the help desk role. I have a few certs and my B.S in Computer Security.

If I accept this position it will definitely open doors to other opportunities in the Cybersec field. The thing is I'm taking a huge risk accepting this position since it's a temporary role.

Would you give up a good job to get your foot in the door for a new position that pertains to your overall future goal?

I'm seriously stressed! Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

koz24

I think you asked for too little. You should have said I would like a salary match of $65k. They probably would have given it to you. Still a risky situation but it's getting better

redgunner

I have been in this position before and I have turned down after being offer a contract, why downgrade your salary and risk no further employment causing financial problems!! it's extremely risky, you would have to feel confident you could find a job quick enough if this was to happen to you (I am permanent in my place right now and see many contractors take the risk and not get any offer for permanent)

aftereffector

I'm a little conservative so I would shy away from the contract job, mostly because it's a contract position with no benefits and it's for less than you are making right now. If you are in a situation where you don't need the benefits and you are really confident that you can make it to the next level, you just need the skills from this new job, then perhaps - but I'm confident that you can find something that will combine that better job description and title with the stability, benefits, and comparable salary from your existing job.

The salary number wouldn't stress me out too much, but the contract and lack of benefits definitely would.

networker050184

To go from full time with benefits to contractor without I'd want a pretty hefty raise. Probably $80k minimum in your position. No way I'd take less or even the same personally. If you need the money I'd definitely pass this one up.

TheFORCE

Why did you lower your required salary? You should have said at least 70k based on your experience and taking into consideration that the new job is a contract with no benefits?

Why fall into a negotiate trap when you clearly had the upper hand? I dont get it.

Kalabaster

No way, to go from fed benefits to no benefits is going to hit you way more than you think. Also, I don't know where you're located, but that's pretty low for a baby SOC monkey in DC. Generally you'd get at least 65k with full benefits, or ~80k with none.

Don't forget, benefits includes PTO and stuff, it's not just health insurance.

Polymorphic28

I've asked for a lower amount because I don't have much experience in that particular job position. It requires experience in incident handling and other responsibilities that I've never done in my current job.

Polymorphic28

redgunner wrote: »

I have been in this position before and I have turned down after being offer a contract, why downgrade your salary and risk no further employment causing financial problems!! it's extremely risky, you would have to feel confident you could find a job quick enough if this was to happen to you (I am permanent in my place right now and see many contractors take the risk and not get any offer for permanent)

I agree that it's extremely risky! Others have told me that I should take the risk if I want to get my foot in the door.

EANx

You're changing from a job with a pension and a lot of time off to one with neither, that is a temp and it pays less? What are you getting for giving all that up? Seems like a poor trade to me.

Trucido

Yeah as stated above, I would say you set the salary bar too low. It might have been better to ask for like 70-75k and if they ask why, I would have said its responsibilities vary greatly from your current role which makes you 65k and has benefits or whatever. If you haven't signed anything, I wouldn't imagine its too late to bring that up. "Oh I know I said 60,000 is as low as I would go, but that is actually lower than what I make now. I would like to negotiate." Hopefully they can play ball.

I know a lot of times when it comes to contractor work, take the figure they're offering as a base, double it, thats probably what the actual contract is worth. So 70-80k isn't out off the desk if its really 100,000 to them. 20,000-30,000$ in their pocket for doing nothing is still a big win.

The worst that can happen in trying to re-negotiate is they say no, and you're making more money than they were willing to allow you anyway...

mbarrett

Don't do it, just get trained & find something else in the federal system that's closer to what you want to do.
You have good benefits...going to a contract job with no benefits doesn't make any sense, imo. You will be taking home less pay, there's less of a safety net and you will have to take care of yourself, so you will actually be making way less than just the salary differential. With the fed job you will get step increases over time, and possibly a promotion or two down the line if you stick around that long.
There will also be a hiring freeze as soon as the new president gets into office, so you won't be able to go back into that line of work once you leave.

Polymorphic28

EANx wrote: »

You're changing from a job with a pension and a lot of time off to one with neither, that is a temp and it pays less? What are you getting for giving all that up? Seems like a poor trade to me.

I'm trying to get into the Cyber Security field since I don't have experience. I guess it will open doors to better opportunities with the experience I gain from the new job.

Polymorphic28

mbarrett wrote: »

Don't do it, just get trained & find something else in the federal system that's closer to what you want to do.
You have good benefits...going to a contract job with no benefits doesn't make any sense, imo. You will be taking home less pay, there's less of a safety net and you will have to take care of yourself, so you will actually be making way less than just the salary differential. With the fed job you will get step increases over time, and possibly a promotion or two down the line if you stick around that long.
There will also be a hiring freeze as soon as the new president gets into office, so you won't be able to go back into that line of work once you leave.

Well the bad thing is that I'm currently dual status military and my federal job is contingent on my military status. Basically I lose my federal job if I leave the military. I'm looking to get out in a few years so I'm currently looking for another job that falls within my current salary. You've made excellent points in the discussion.

xxxkaliboyxxx

So your title 32, all good. That is how most people get into their GS jobs under 20 years of service. There are infosec jobs that are not title 32. Why not keep looking? you are already in the system. Cyber Defense seems sexy, sure but your losing a lot going barebones. I say keep looking.

Danielm7

Yeah that's a rough deal. Depending on your area you're likely overpaid for helpdesk, but that's not a great deal. I get making some sacrifice to change fields, I did it too and it worked out well but it wasn't easy at all. Loss of a lot of benefits and money, the recruiter is probably charging them 150K a year for you, no wonder he's asking what it'll take to get you over there.

BradleyHU

Don't do it. You definitely should have asked for more considering it's contract and no bennies.

MitM

Danielm7 wrote: »

the recruiter is probably charging them 150K a year for you, no wonder he's asking what it'll take to get you over there.

Exactly! The recruiter is still winning if they give you 60k. I know you want the experience, but this is not a safe bet. I'd definitely turn down the offer.

Z0sickx

Don't do it...what kind of contractor has no benefits!? the ****! stay as a FED keep your benefits and keep looking, while improving your skill set, depending on where you live you can come in as a Jr making 70-75k as a Jr.

Just some advice to others looking at the thread...if a recruiter ask you what your salary is DO NOT TELL THEM. Tell them either "I hate being asked that question" (last recruiter i talked to said he hated asking lol) or "that is personal information and is not relevant to this discussion" or if you want to be a smartass "what is the max amount you will pay for this position" point being if they balk or pressure you to telling them...walk away, more times then not that company is not a place you want to work

Danielm7

Z0sickx wrote: »

what kind of contractor has no benefits!? the ****!

Most of them.

bermovick

I've been a contractor for ... dang it's been 5 years now, and I've always had benefits (medical, 401k, etc), so I'm not sure where that comes from (although working through a temp agency for a contracting gig usually doesn't, and I didn't look up the OPs original thread, so that's a possibility).

I agree with previous posters; you should have asked for more: The common theme I hear is the GS positions tend to pay less than us contractors, but have the big bonus of being much more stable.

volfkhat

Geez oh Petes.

Gonna have to go the other way with the majority here.
If it's time to Move on... then it's Time to Move on.

Don't be afraid to sacrifice Comfort, for what you REally want to do. If not... you could potentially be trapped in your current role forever.

And now i see that you are thinking about leaving the Military sooner than later?? It sounds like you are "mentally" on your way to moving on.
Are you still learning "new" things at your current job?
We should always be onguard against staying at a job because of complacency and convenience. (Unless they are paying CRAZY money.... fyi, 65k is NOT crazy money)

I don't have the answer, but i will say this:
If the new job was paying you the same (65k)... would you feel differently?
How does the commute compare?
(What State/area do you live in?)

If you really want the Change... and it's decent experience.... then why not. It's your Life!


But I think a better move is for you to Post the Job requirements in this thread.
Have members (with real security exp) give their 2 cents on the actual position.
That's probably a better way to determine things.



fyi,
if you do take the job.... consider renegotiating first;
tell them they have to cover your Medical benefits. (make up a lame excuse that 'medical' slipped your mind when you said 60k).
You still have a bit of leverage.

zdx

I still don't get why you took the lower salary. You had the upperhand in negotiations. Even if you weren't skilled enough you should always ask for more then what you're currently making. Especially with no benefits you could of argued that. Though I get why you want to leave.

Hammer80

This is a very common problem that majority of people have no clue about the value of their benefits package and take jobs with a little bit more money without benefits thinking they are ahead. Just to put a little bit of a perspective the average benefits package is worth about $25-30k in addition to your regular pay. You should have asked for $80k at least considering there is no benefits. No benefits means you have to pick an insurance plan from ObamaCare where the premiums have just jumped 22% this year ($1k a month for single person), if you chose to forgo health insurance then in 2017 the fine for nothing having health insurance doubles from it's current rate to $5k to the IRS. Think long and hard about choosing a job without benefits, it better pay a lot of money. Also remember if you are a 1099 employee not W2 you are responsible for your own taxes. Majority of companies would still gladly pay a contractor the same amount as it were for a W2 employee pay+benefits because they still save money on not having to pay admin costs for your benefits.

tpatt100

If I was younger, in a job that I thought had no future I would probably take the risk and take the job. Now in your situation you do have options where you are at you just have to be patient and look/wait for them to come up.

supasecuritybro

Depending on where you work, most government civilian positions have buckets of money for training of their staff. I'd get a GCIH and a voucher for a CASP. Once you get that, you can get GS job somewhere else... keyword. SOMEWHERE ELSE. Do not take a paycut or benefit loss for any job with the hope of getting "skills" in return. You will probably have to take a job in another state in order to get into the field with government. I worked on a contract with great pay and decent benefits for the government for over 14 years but once I hit the ceiling in ability to grow I left to the private sector... every step making more money than before.

trueshrewkmc

I have left government jobs twice in the last 13 months to go back to contracting. I thought my government job pay was too low and hurt my long term salary prospects. On the minus side, I don't get vacation or sick time in my current contracting job. Defense industry contractors normally get vacation or sick time pay, so I didn't negotiate for it. Silly me!

Federal health insurance rates are hard to beat and most civilian employers cannot match the total vacation and sick time that federal employees earn at the non-executive level. Federal employees get 10 federal holidays and some military personnel get bonus training holidays on either side of the 10 days. I have seen articles online that suggest federal benefits make federal jobs worth at least 25 percent more than their salaries.

Get the government to pay for some information security training. Join some organizations and do a little networking to meet some non-contracting employers.

Don't become a contractor for less money! By less money, I mean 25% + current pay.

kiki162

DON'T DO IT! Stop using recruiters, and apply to a company directly. I understand your frustrations with working for the gov't...but you need to put a few good certs under your belt to get you out that hole.

xxxkaliboyxxx

I have a feeling he took it...

Mitechniq

As a person that is well versed in National Guard/Reserve technician positions, I am quite shocked you are even considering this. There are times I have trouble filling or keeping a person in a technician position because they find a DOD Contractor willing to pay 30-50% more than what they are making as a GS, sometimes setting in the same location.

For some of you that are not familiar with Military Technician jobs:

Paid 10 Federal Holidays
Accrue 4 Sick hours a Pay Period
After three years, you get 19 Days per Year of Vacation (Almost a whole month)
Any military down days ( Family Days, Unit Holidays, etc..)
Military Leave, you get 15 days ( Double Dip on GS and Military Pay)
Drill Pay, one weekend a month
Annual Cost of Living Increase
Step Increase ( Years in Grade)
Dual Retirements (GS and Military)

I do not know what branch of service you are in, but there are several states building their Cyber presence. Have you looked at finding a technician position that allows you to retrain in a Cyber MOS/AFSC.

datacomboss

I'd keep the job and focus on networking with people who already have the job you want.