Can I join the military, and be sure I'll be in a tech role?

FlyOnTheWall

Hey all, so I'm beginning to explore the thought of joining the military. I'll obviously talk to some recruiters, though I've heard a few stories of recruiters deceiving their prospects, and I wanted to get some thoughts from all of you.

I really have zero interest in traditional military role (whatever that means) and would be pretty sick if I joined the military and didn't end up in some sort of IT role. What are the odds that I'd end up in some role not in IT? I'd obviously continuously push for technical training/to be in a technical role.

I'm 29, have no degree, and I've been self employed my whole adult life (different industry), though that is coming to an end soon. Finding a traditional IT job now would be extremely challenging (only have A+ cert & some coding experience), and I like the idea of joining the service, getting those benefits, along with free training. Although, my biggest fear would be to end up in some non-technical military role. If anyone has experience with this, or any advice at all, it is greatly appreciated. Thanks!

TechGuru80

I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure people have been able to get an MOS put into their contract? I'm sure a lot depends on your exam score and ability to get certain levels of clearance though.

the_Grinch

Yeah 99.9% sure the Army, Navy, and Air Force will put your job in the contract at least if you sign up for six years.

shodown

Yes you can get the job in your contract, and you can end up at a command where you never do your job. So if you do go in ensure that you graudate the highest in your class to ensure you get to a cool place. I'm speaking for the navy. I got a chance to do electronics, cisco, and telecom. This was over 17 years ago so the rates have isolated down who does what.

thomas_

Score high enough on the ASVAB and/or be willing to wait long enough for a particular job type to open up and you can pretty much get whatever job you want. However, you need it in writing. If it's not on your contract you're not getting it. Even if you do get an IT job there is still going to be a lot of military stuff you'll have to do and put up with that's not IT. I would think long and hard about joining. The military is great if you can handle it, but if you get a dishonorable discharge that can hang over your head like a black cloud. The military has an extreme amount of control over your life once you sign up which doesn't end until you do the amount of time in your contract and any amount remaining as part of the inactive ready reserve. If you retire and get a paycheck they pretty much have a leash(albeit a small one) on you for life in the form that you can will always be subject to the UCMJ.

hinsdahl00

I can only speak to enlisted roles in the ARMY as I have heard that other branches can force you into other jobs based on need. Recruiters are primarily concerned about filling specific vacancies and I would not rely on them as a primary source of any specific information.

I made sure to do all my research before walking into their offices. I figured out exactly what job I wanted (it was not IT related), walked in, told them what I was looking for, and didn't accept anything else. If you get it in writing (read that contract) and score well enough on the ASVAB, then you should be all set.

I would look into the ARMY's cyber jobs as enlisted (with an eye to going warrant in the future) or the USAF as an officer. Do your 20, take that clearance and training to the civilian world, collect a pension and work in the government sphere until you're ready to plant your feet on a beach!

volfkhat

I like the idea of serving in the military.

hinsdahl00 wrote: »

Do your 20, take that clearance and training to the civilian world, collect a pension and work in the government sphere until you're ready to plant your feet on a beach!

I like the idea of getting a pension.

However, i dislike the reality of the matter.

If i worked in an environment where people were treated unfairly, or i had major issues with the leadership; i would simply Quit.

Or, if i were an outspoken critic, and an advocate for the "little guy"; i would probably end up getting canned.

But these are not practical outcomes in the military.
I can think of No other employer where getting fired (dishonorable discharge) is equivalent to a felony conviction. (and let's not even address the history of systemic racism/discrimination)

You are truly signing away all power to a 3rd party.

And as they say,
Absolute Power corrupts Absolutely.


Clearly you are at a point in your life where you feel that enlisting is your best option; and you may be right.
But i just wanted to voice a different opinion.

Good luck.

FillAwful

I was never in the military so I cannot answer your question directly. However, I work along side Navy sailors. Most are CTN's (Cryptologic Technicians). At this command, they (and I) do the cool glamorized fun stuff that everybody seems to want out of a security role i.e Network forensics, Incident Handling, Malware Analysis. This command also pays for High level certs for all its sailors and civilians, including SANS once a year.

The Military has its drawbacks but if you are young enough and have no ties, the training as a Navy CTN is awesome and you can excel if you have a passion for it. Many of the sailors get out long before they make Chief or even first class because with all the certs and experience they stand to make far more in the private sector. Good luck to you.

Edit: Not to mention the GI Bill...

BlackBeret

Army - You will have your MOS in your contract when you go through MEPS. Don't be swayed by bonuses to go to other MOS's or let them put anything else in it. 17C (Cyber Operations Specialist) is the one you want right now. Anything in the 25 series will have you working with electronics or IT as well, 25D is cyber defense, 25B would be your network technicians. In the Army you may end up in a unit somewhere doing something other than your job, but with those 3 specific MOS's it shouldn't happen. If you fail your MOS course, you could potentially restart the course or be moved to a new MOS based on the needs of the Army.

Air Force - You can get a specific MOS in your contract or go to basic without one being assigned. If you want a specific one you will probably have to wait 1-2 years to be able to enlist, schools are full, Air Force doesn't have a lack of applicants, etc. The Air Force AFSC's (MOS's) are more likely to be doing their specific job function, but the Cyber Operators are currently (last I heard) only accepting "career" personnel from other AFSC's. The recruiter will likely tell you it's all the same thing because he doesn't know better, but you'll enlist as something like a network technician, then in a few years be able to transfer over to the cyber operations if you wanted to.

The other branches I don't have any first hand experience with. I'm heavily biased towards the way the Army does things, and I'm more familiar with the newer "Cyber" roles. I'd say talk to a recruiter and see what the bonuses are looking like for the MOS's above, pick one (25D might be merging with 17C so it may not exist after a certain point), and when you go to get your physical, sign your contract, and swear in at MEPS tell the career counselor there that you'll accept which ever MOS you decided on.

Another point to consider is the National Guard or Reserve, state slots can vary greatly from the active duty slots. You still get the clearance and training, but you wont get a lot of practical work experience. I know of one company in San Antonio that hires anyone with a clearance, a few certs, and a pulse, and at least one reservist that joined to get two of the three, then got a cushy full-time job. I'd highly suggest enlisting active duty first, whatever the minimum the contract allows, then taking your experience and getting a solid civilian job.

The "pension after 20 years" you mentioned is no longer an option for new enlistee's. The DoD has moved to a 401k type of system where you put in x%, they match up to y%, and it stays invested until you get out.

The Army puts your MOS in the contract regardless of the contract length, also the post 9/11 GI Bill is 100% after 3 years. You may be able to get a contract as short as 3 years + training time.

DatabaseHead

If memory serves me correctly, you pick 3 Rates/MOS I believe when you go through the MEPS, unless you are a specialist, Marine band member, Pilot/Aviator etc....

They can assign you to one of those 3. (Things might of changes since then though).

Russ5813

DatabaseHead wrote: »

If memory serves me correctly, you pick 3 Rates/MOS I believe when you go through the MEPS, unless you are a specialist, Marine band member, Pilot/Aviator etc....

They can assign you to one of those 3. (Things might of changes since then though).

You get your MOS written into your contract as enlisted. An MOS wish list is an officer thing, unless you know someone important enough that can pull strings for you.

Thomas_ has really good advice. You may be able to get an IT MOS, but understand that you're considered a Soldier/Sailor/Marine/Airman first. The Air Force and Navy have good technical programs and are probably more your speed if you aren’t the run ‘n gun type. However, the military is currently downsizing and recruiters can afford to be picky. At your age, you’ll need to do exceptionally well on your PFT and ASVAB to even be considered. The Guard or Reserves may be less selective.

kiki162

If you are really looking for a boost to jump over into IT, remember a couple of things. No matter where you start, whether it be the military, bootcamps, or college, you'll be starting at the bottom. Take a look at the Air Force pay for an airman, your looking at $1560/mo roughly not including BAH. Would this be enough for you to live off of? Do you mind living in dorms on base and sharing your space with others? You will deploy in an IT role, so also keep that in mind. The military is great for some people, and serves its purpose. However if you go that route, I'd get in and out, enough to get your benefits and what you need out of it. Make use of all the opportunities that you have while your in, so that you set yourself up nicely once you DO leave.

Oh yeah...remember you'll also be doing lots of PT while in the military...so if your not into running now...better start liking it

Bokeh

Former USAF. I had guaranteed job going in, and at the last week of basic, they cancelled the school. I was given a few options - get out, get out and come back when school would be open again (and doing basic all over again) or take another job. I took the other job. Remember, the needs of each branch comes first.

Like others have said - pay isn't great. Travel was fun. Met a lot of great individuals. Its not for everyone. Talk to each branch and weigh the pros/cons of each.

marcellis

I just recently transitioned (May 2016) from the 25 series from the ARMY side of the house and I can tell you that if you decide to go army, as Black Beret commented, 17C is the super hotness and some of my former battle buddies who are going through the training are receiving some of the industries best. One thing to touch on is that these MOS positions more than likely require a high level clearance, so make sure you evaluate your past and current personal conduct and financial background if you decide to pursue.

EANx

My military time is long behind me but here are some things to keep in mind

Never trust a recruiter
Every Marine is first a rifleman
PT: Good for you, good for me
Insulting a member of Congress is literally against the law
If the military wanted you to have a wife (or husband), we would have issued you one

I don't regret my time in The Corps but everyone faces the military in a different fashion. At 29, you might be a little more independent than is comfortable in the military. If I tell you to do push ups until I get tired, is your first inclination to say "ohh-rah, more sir!" or give me the finger? Things have changed over time but one thing that hasn't is that the command has total control over you. Especially as an E-1 to E3, someone issues a command and you run off to obey. Refuse and you're pulled in front of the Captain to explain yourself and try to avoid UCMJ (Uniformed Code of Military Justice, a separate legal system for the military).

Don't take my comments as dislike, the military is a very different life. You might start off a bit better if you have some savings but plan on no privacy for the first 6-12 months.

TNbound

If you want info on the AF, let me know. I just tipped 22 years and its been a hellaof run(retiring this year). I have been fortunate, but at the same time I controlled a lot of my destiny. If you do join,(any service) there are selective manned units out there that that will provide some of the best training. PM me if you want, I know a little on the Army and Navy as I have worked joined for most my career. As others have said, some jobs require the TS, but it is worth its weight in gold when you get out as well. Just have to have good finances and no convictions for the most part. PM me if you have any questions.

devilbones

Are you sure that your joining the military for the right reason? There is a chance if you go enlisted you might end up doing some stuff you didnt want to do. Like you could be serving food for 6 months or cutting the grass on base for 90 days, etc. You should be able to be guaranteed an occupational field at least. I would look for something other than the military or you might have a bad time.

CCNTrainee

I was in the Air Force, doing 6 years with a guaranteed job doing Networking. Like others have mention, you could be doing something related to your goals or you can be stuck in a billet that has nothing to do with your MOS/AFSC/Rate. In your first term, you won't have much say or options on where you go and what you end up doing. Everything is based on the Services needs. Even though I was AF with a tech job, I was still deployed as a warm body with the Infantry and got to do awesome things like being part of combat, convoy getting hit with an IED, going to survival/hostage school and prepping injured people for MEDAVACs. Another billet I got was being a "secretary" to a Marine General and other General Officers.

As much as you "could" do a tech job, you will be spending a lot of time doing things that aren't related like mandatory briefings, clean up party's, being voluntold to help up with an event, or my personal favorite of burning feces and urine in a barrel. Either way you could have an great time and get to travel. OR you can be stuck in the middle of no where, stuck in a billet that has nothing to do with the job signed up for. Really think about it before signing your life away and if you are able to commit to the worst case scenario for the next 4-6 years.

Also, they got rid of the 20 year retirement checks. If you looking to retire from the military, you are going to need pay into the investment like any other job.

ArabianKnight

Having just gotten back from MEPS (literally just now!!) it is extremely miserable, this is my 3rd time going there and now I am in the Army Reserve instead of the NG, hurray! MEPS will have you fantasizing on committing "acts of workplace violence" so just be forewarned, lol.

Go 17C all the way period, there is really no other option. Do 6 years, get out and make 6 figures just like that. The standards are pretty high and not everyone makes it (I believe there is about a 50% attrition rate) through all the training and I am not even including passing MEPS for that MOS. It is about a year long course and they should know better than to waste your skill set on dumb stuff.

networker050184

If you think MEPS is bad just wait until you actually get to basic and AIT. Hurry up and wait!

FlyOnTheWall

Thank you all so much for your responses, I really appreciate them. I definitely have a bit to think about, I don't mind at all the PT aspect, taking orders, no privacy, hard work, discipline etc... I'm confident in my ability to do well in the PFT & ASVAB, and I can study hard to ensure a great score on the ASVAB. It is still weighing on me the possibility of ending up in a mundane non-IT role though. I have quite a bit to think about.

FSF150

FillAwful wrote: »

I was never in the military so I cannot answer your question directly. However, I work along side Navy sailors. Most are CTN's (Cryptologic Technicians). At this command, they (and I) do the cool glamorized fun stuff that everybody seems to want out of a security role i.e Network forensics, Incident Handling, Malware Analysis.
...
Edit: Not to mention the GI Bill...

5 years active, 4ish reserve as a MA (physical security). If I could do it all again I would, but as a CTN. Great post.

TNbound

at the very least, you get stuck in a job you dont like, you will still have the GI bill, and after all upgrade training while in, use TA to get some college credits knocked outta the way. It isnt what it use to be, retirement, and now they are wanting to make all service members pay for tricare, not approved yet, but it will come. I think some certs will get you some rank as well, have to ask the recruiters about it. One of our AF members were saying something to that effect.

FSF150

FlyOnTheWall wrote: »

Thank you all so much for your responses, I really appreciate them. I definitely have a bit to think about, I don't mind at all the PT aspect, taking orders, no privacy, hard work, discipline etc... I'm confident in my ability to do well in the PFT & ASVAB, and I can study hard to ensure a great score on the ASVAB. It is still weighing on me the possibility of ending up in a mundane non-IT role though. I have quite a bit to think about.

For most of the "Cons" listed, I'll admit that the USN can waste a guys time in exceptional ways, but once you're out of the training pipeline it's a regular job with some additional aggravations (at least on shore duty, which CTNs have almost exclusively). The USN also has a pure IT rate (yes, called IT) which has both sea and shore roles.

There's always BS work but in the USN (and other branches I'll assume) they do generally want you doing the job they paid to train you for.

Comments about the GI Bill are spot on as well. I did most of my undergrad on active, so thanks to the GI Bill and careful college shopping I'll have two more degrees (MS/MBA) done with no debt as of this summer.

Kreken

I would suggest USAF. Talk to a recruiter and reserve the AFSC you want. In the meantime, apply to local community college and get some credits. IIRC, 30 credits gets you bumped up to Amn and 60 to A1C.

518

much like majority of the responses, you can select your AFSC before you sign the contract.

I'm not sure where you live, but another option...join the Air National Guard.
- Select 1B4X1 AFSC
- You get the SCI-eligibility clearance
- You report one weekend a month and with your SCI clearance, I can almost guarantee you will have multiple job offers in a some type of IT role. It may not be six-figs to start, but better than most entry-level salaries. If you want to do IT Security, CISSP plus SCI-clearance is a great combination. Lastly, if you have CISSP and an SCI clearance, you can take a job overseas and start making six figures where the first $100,000 is tax free. You can go to Iraq for $200,000 if you so desire. Your salary with civilian job while a weekend warrior for the Air Guard is much higher than full time military for the next six years.

Locations for 1B4 AFSC:
https://www.goang.com/careers/cyber-warfare-operations/1b4x1

about me:
- Former California ANG (2006-2012), Cyber Transport AFSC, been in various IT roles (IA, Networks, Systems) since 2008 for various defense contractors.

Good luck.

NetworkNewb

CCNTrainee wrote: »

got to do awesome things like being part of combat, convoy getting hit with an IED, going to survival/hostage school and prepping injured people for MEDAVACs.

Me and you have a VERY different view of what awesome is.

supafish9

- Select 1B4X1 AFSC
- You get the SCI-eligibility clearance
- You report one weekend a month and with your SCI clearance, I can almost guarantee you will have multiple job offers in a some type of IT role. It may not be six-figs to start, but better than most entry-level salaries. If you want to do IT Security, CISSP plus SCI-clearance is a great combination. Lastly, if you have CISSP and an SCI clearance, you can take a job overseas and start making six figures where the first $100,000 is tax free. You can go to Iraq for $200,000 if you so desire. Your salary with civilian job while a weekend warrior for the Air Guard is much higher than full time military for the next six years.

Locations for 1B4 AFSC:
https://www.goang.com/careers/cyber-warfare-operations/1b4x1

about me:
- Former California ANG (2006-2012), Cyber Transport AFSC, been in various IT roles (IA, Networks, Systems) since 2008 for various defense contractors.

Good luck.

Would you know the difference between the 1B4X1 and 3D0X2 or 3D1X2? I'm currently in Houston so Ellington would be closet base and finished my time with the Navy, but I haven't heard much about the Air National Guard or much of what they do.

It sounds like the 3DXXX series are more on the networking and installing side of the house.

globalenjoi

EANx wrote: »

My military time is long behind me but here are some things to keep in mind

Never trust a recruiter
Every Marine is first a rifleman
PT: Good for you, good for me
Insulting a member of Congress is literally against the law
If the military wanted you to have a wife (or husband), we would have issued you one

I don't regret my time in The Corps but everyone faces the military in a different fashion. At 29, you might be a little more independent than is comfortable in the military. If I tell you to do push ups until I get tired, is your first inclination to say "ohh-rah, more sir!" or give me the finger? Things have changed over time but one thing that hasn't is that the command has total control over you. Especially as an E-1 to E3, someone issues a command and you run off to obey. Refuse and you're pulled in front of the Captain to explain yourself and try to avoid UCMJ (Uniformed Code of Military Justice, a separate legal system for the military).

Don't take my comments as dislike, the military is a very different life. You might start off a bit better if you have some savings but plan on no privacy for the first 6-12 months.

Heh, this is a good description of what I went through the last few years. I joined the Army (enlisted) to be a linguist back in 2011 after focusing on Arabic in college. At the time, I was 23, and during basic I noticed how little patience I had for all of the 17-19 year old kids. I never made it out of basic. Two weeks before graduation, some dick cadet managed to break my arm (humerus) in combatives, and I ended up spending 8+ months at Ft. Jackson, only to get med-boarded out. The whole process was an eye-opener to how slow the Army can be, how it can make bad decisions regularly that have a negative impact on you, without you really being able to do anything about it (MMA-trained officer cadet doing combatives with privates, skipping surgery on a broken bone to "see what happens", DS forcing you to try a pushup 3-4 weeks after a broken arm to "see if you can do it", having the guy with the broken arm in a sling carry the M240B during field exercises when it wasn't being used, etc). Luckily I was still able to get 100% of my GI Bill, but it was a significant life shake-up and things definitely could have gone better.


I had quit college in my last semester to join (not the smartest move), so when I got home I finished out my classes and graduated, with the intention of going back in after my physical therapy and as an officer candidate. I have considered it regularly over the last few years, but I think last year I got to a point where I realized going back just isn't something I really want to do anymore. I'm 29 now, and not only do I not want to be surrounded by 18 year old kids, but after having been in IT for a little over a year, it really seems like I could grow my salary through my own hard work much, much faster than I could in the Army.


If I were to make a suggestion, it would be to find an entry-level IT/helpdesk job with the A+ cert, and while working there polish off other certs. Work on an undergrad degree from WGU, since it's less thank 7k per year. I don't think there is anything wrong with joining the military, but I think at 29, it's definitely a more difficult adjustment.

518

supafish9 wrote: »

Would you know the difference between the 1B4X1 and 3D0X2 or 3D1X2? I'm currently in Houston so Ellington would be closet base and finished my time with the Navy, but I haven't heard much about the Air National Guard or much of what they do.

It sounds like the 3DXXX series are more on the networking and installing side of the house.

I was a 3D1X2 was my AFSC aka Network Admin. 3D0X2 is a Sys Admin type job.

If you cant be 1B4, my order of priority is 3D1X2 and then 3D0X2..Im bias to Cisco devices and Defense contracting job pays a little higher to Network Admins..in my experience.

edit:
before cyber was coined, not much was known about the Air National Guard. Since then, most communications squadron has transitioned to Cyber squadron. Personnel on my squadron travel when they do their 2-weeks AT...they do pentests or play CTF with other squadrons.

TNbound

supafish9 wrote: »

Would you know the difference between the 1B4X1 and 3D0X2 or 3D1X2? I'm currently in Houston so Ellington would be closet base and finished my time with the Navy, but I haven't heard much about the Air National Guard or much of what they do.

It sounds like the 3DXXX series are more on the networking and installing side of the house.

so, from the looks of it, the 0X2s are getting revamped right now, I havent had the time to look to see the changes. A quick run down, 0X2s use to be 3C0X1s and we use to be the jack of all trades, but then, 2009 they wanted to blow us up and made the 3Ds and some of the stuff we did went away, and we became server guys that didnt do anything. And now, we are getting a overhaul again. I dont know what the future is going to look like. 1X2's use to be 2E2s, waterwalkers/snoopys as they called themselves. They are the network techs, If I were to join today, I would go 1B4 or 1X2 followed by 0X2.