Can I join the military, and be sure I'll be in a tech role?

volfkhat

globalenjoi wrote: »

The whole process was an eye-opener to how slow the Army can be, how it can make bad decisions regularly that have a negative impact on you, without you really being able to do anything about it (MMA-trained officer cadet doing combatives with privates, skipping surgery on a broken bone to "see what happens", DS forcing you to try a pushup 3-4 weeks after a broken arm to "see if you can do it", having the guy with the broken arm in a sling carry the M240B during field exercises when it wasn't being used, etc).

^^
Yeah..... this is the stuff i was talking about.

And it doesn't matter if you are 29, or 19..... it's still an abuse of power (imo).
cheers

cowill

At 29, it's probably not worth it. There is too much that can go wrong for you to get into the military and possibly NOT come away with an IT MOS. Then you are stuck with either doing something where you gotta leave before your ETS (which is often enough not good) OR stay for your time and you completely get away from IT.


IF you really REALLY REALLY want to go this route, try reserves or National Guard. That way if something screws up, you won't have to deal with it all the time. If you do get into IT, you can reap the benefits of being a soldier as well and command almost instant respect on the outside at the same time.

518

cowill wrote: »

At 29, it's probably not worth it. There is too much that can go wrong for you to get into the military and possibly NOT come away with an IT MOS. Then you are stuck with either doing something where you gotta leave before your ETS (which is often enough not good) OR stay for your time and you completely get away from IT.


IF you really REALLY REALLY want to go this route, try reserves or National Guard. That way if something screws up, you won't have to deal with it all the time. If you do get into IT, you can reap the benefits of being a soldier as well and command almost instant respect on the outside at the same time.

If you score high enough on ASVAB, ANYONE CAN guarantee your AFSC in the AF/ANG. If you cant guarantee your AFSC (MOS), dont even sign. This is why this thread exists, so veterans like myself can guide you.

And trust me, even at 29...joining the ANG as 1B is well worth it. Give it 4 years or less, you will see the big ROI if you become a cyber guy.

edit:

here in Afghan, even 25B are patrolling outside the wire...or at the front gate. An Army is a SOLDIER first, your MOS doesnt matter. Now, join the AF/ANG...you will be joining the country club.

TNbound

and one other thing, once you add that vet status, it can open more doors for you. I am working with people that started in their late 20's, no issues at all.

FlyOnTheWall

You are all awesome, thanks for all the responses.

518 wrote: »

much like majority of the responses, you can select your AFSC before you sign the contract.

I'm not sure where you live, but another option...join the Air National Guard.
- Select 1B4X1 AFSC
- You get the SCI-eligibility clearance
- You report one weekend a month and with your SCI clearance, I can almost guarantee you will have multiple job offers in a some type of IT role. It may not be six-figs to start, but better than most entry-level salaries. If you want to do IT Security, CISSP plus SCI-clearance is a great combination. Lastly, if you have CISSP and an SCI clearance, you can take a job overseas and start making six figures where the first $100,000 is tax free. You can go to Iraq for $200,000 if you so desire. Your salary with civilian job while a weekend warrior for the Air Guard is much higher than full time military for the next six years.

Locations for 1B4 AFSC:
https://www.goang.com/careers/cyber-warfare-operations/1b4x1

about me:
- Former California ANG (2006-2012), Cyber Transport AFSC, been in various IT roles (IA, Networks, Systems) since 2008 for various defense contractors.

Good luck.

I'm currently leaning in this direction. I like the idea of a civilian job/weekend warrior for Air Guard as opposed to full military. I'm in San Diego, it seems the closest 1B4 location is around San Jose, an 8 hour drive. It looks like 3d0X2 is pretty similar and available much closer, a 2 hour drive or so.

spiderjericho

Agreed with a lot of the responses.

Just caveats:

if if you were to do 20 years, you'd retire at 49.

I joined at 24/25. The lifestyle has been brutal on my body. Understand as a grown adult, you're going to have younger folks telling you what to do. There's going to be B.S. (A lot of it). You might end up doing something outside of your contracted job like base beautification, guard duty, cook, mail, admin, etc.

My recommendation is see what you score on the ASVAB. High score guarantees the job you want most time. Make sure you're in good shape. Don't trust the recruiter, get everything in writing.

If your goal is to not do the military long term, plan a 4-8 year plan where you can knock out getting a degree, certifications and obtaining a clearance and experience.

Make sure you're doing it for the right reasons. Cyber security is big right now and each service has jobs that can provide a rewarding experience.

518

FlyOnTheWall wrote: »

You are all awesome, thanks for all the responses.



I'm currently leaning in this direction. I like the idea of a civilian job/weekend warrior for Air Guard as opposed to full military. I'm in San Diego, it seems the closest 1B4 location is around San Jose, an 8 hour drive. It looks like 3d0X2 is pretty similar and available much closer, a 2 hour drive or so.

Youre in SD? That means there are hundreds of jobs as a contractor in your area. Booz Allen, Northrop, Lockheed, BAE, Boeing, Qualcomm Govt Solutions, SAIC, CACI, Leidos and other small veteran owned disadvantaged companies. Geez, I can almost predict your bright future...lol. Definitely join the ANG and get that SCI access. If you get lucky, a company can sponsor you all the way to SCI Polygraph. A network engineer in DC with polygraph often gets $15-20k signon bonus.

CCNTrainee

NetworkNewb wrote: »

Me and you have a VERY different view of what awesome is.

Given that you are a smart person, I am amused that you forgot this is the internet and that there is a lot of sarcasm involved. Maybe I should have done the new age thing of putting a hashtag in front of my intent??

CCNTrainee

518 wrote: »

here in Afghan, even 25B are patrolling outside the wire...or at the front gate. An Army is a SOLDIER first, your MOS doesnt matter. Now, join the AF/ANG...you will be joining the country club.

That isn't saying much, when I was in the Zabul providence we were ALL (AF, Army, Navy, Foreign Military) manning the gates and going out on convoys. Got to make good friends with the Romanians in our area, this is what happens when you get on a FOB or COP. Not every Airman gets stuck at KAF or BAF.

xxxkaliboyxxx

CCNTrainee wrote: »

That isn't saying much, when I was in the Zabul providence we were ALL (AF, Army, Navy, Foreign Military) manning the gates and going out on convoys. Got to make good friends with the Romanians in our area, this is what happens when you get on a FOB or COP. Not every Airman gets stuck at KAF or BAF.

Correction: Most Airmen

Anyways, if you join the military, make sure it's Air Force and your job is in the contract.

I'm prior AF that did blue to green (AF to Army). BTW I deployed with both, no comparison even though they like to think so. I do envy my blue friends though because they actually get to do their job most of the time. Army get stuck doing other **** like cut grass, PT, ETC or being a gunner for an MP Squad. yay me.
Also, no one in the outside world cares about combat medals, cool schools or that I'm able to take apart a m9, m249 and m4 faster than you take a piss.

518

xxxkaliboyxxx wrote: »

Also, no one in the outside world cares about combat medals, cool schools or that I'm able to take apart a m9, m249 and m4 faster than you take a piss.

TRUTH.

Those looks nice as a bumper sticker tho :sarcasm: LOL

CCNTrainee

xxxkaliboyxxx wrote: »

Correction: Most Airmen

Anyways, if you join the military, make sure it's Air Force and your job is in the contract.

I'm prior AF that did blue to green (AF to Army). BTW I deployed with both, no comparison even though they like to think so. I do envy my blue friends though because they actually get to do their job most of the time. Army get stuck doing other **** like cut grass, PT, ETC or being a gunner for an MP Squad. yay me.
Also, no one in the outside world cares about combat medals, cool schools or that I'm able to take apart a m9, m249 and m4 faster than you take a piss.

Well I am glad I got out and work at an Agency now, especially when most jobs are contracted out anyways.

I wasn't trying to sugar coat anything, I was giving the OP the worst case scenario of what could happen since not everyone gets to live the dream.

mactex

spiderjericho wrote: »

Agreed with a lot of the responses.

Just caveats:

if if you were to do 20 years, you'd retire at 49.

I joined at 24/25. The lifestyle has been brutal on my body. Understand as a grown adult, you're going to have younger folks telling you what to do. There's going to be B.S. (A lot of it). You might end up doing something outside of your contracted job like base beautification, guard duty, cook, mail, admin, etc.

My recommendation is see what you score on the ASVAB. High score guarantees the job you want most time. Make sure you're in good shape. Don't trust the recruiter, get everything in writing.

If your goal is to not do the military long term, plan a 4-8 year plan where you can knock out getting a degree, certifications and obtaining a clearance and experience.

Make sure you're doing it for the right reasons. Cyber security is big right now and each service has jobs that can provide a rewarding experience.

This is sage advice. I am a retired Navy Chief who joined at 24.

cowill

518 wrote: »

If you score high enough on ASVAB, ANYONE CAN guarantee your AFSC in the AF/ANG. If you cant guarantee your AFSC (MOS), dont even sign. This is why this thread exists, so veterans like myself can guide you.

And trust me, even at 29...joining the ANG as 1B is well worth it. Give it 4 years or less, you will see the big ROI if you become a cyber guy.

edit:

here in Afghan, even 25B are patrolling outside the wire...or at the front gate. An Army is a SOLDIER first, your MOS doesnt matter. Now, join the AF/ANG...you will be joining the country club.

I'm not quite sure what you were trying to say in the rest of your response to me, however, the bolded was my point to him. It seems as though you are trying to imply that you were a veteran and some of the people commenting aren't. I did my 5, got out and I'm good, so I'm speaking from experience as well. If that wasn't your point, disregard.


Anyways, to the thread starter, think about this decision long and hard. When I was in, there was always a saying that you "fit the needs of the Army". Sure they will have it in writing, but screwing happens on the regular in the military, literally and figuratively. It's not uncommon to hear of reclasses or "I came in to do this, but I wound up doing that." High ASVAB scores and all.

There are also people who get on the other side and realize they had it good at home and try everything in their power not to finish their time. They wind up going home worse off than they did going in. However, I mostly saw that with younger folks.

Now I probably would advise to go Air Force National Guard/Reserve cause AF generally considered the softer, less military-like service of them all. However, I'm sure some of them get screwed over too. I would HIGHLY recommend NOT going full time if you really want to avoid the military part of it. WAY TOO much can happen against your favor regarding that.

flashoverride

Depends on the Service I suppose, but at least when I went into the Marine Corps you could sign up for an Occ Field but not a specific MOS. Depends on your ASVAB scores what you can get into, but the recruiters were always looking for candidates who could get into Electronics Maintenance / Comm stuff since they were harder to come by.

Make sure you get everything in WRITING. If it's not in WRITING, then it's as good as not there. REVIEW EVERYTHING before you sign, no matter what. And then don't fail. DO NOT FAIL. If you fail in an MOS school, they can and will drop you to open contract, which means then you're needs of the service.

Oldest Marine Private I met coming out of Basic was 32, straight off a failed family farm. It can be done, you'll just feel it more than your basic run of the mill HS grad. Most of the basic training stuff is mental - get your head right and your body will follow.

Army has more possible bases to get stationed at, Navy has ships that make port calls (always cool), Marines get deployed pretty routinely. Air Force is... the Air Force. Yeah.

Don't treat joining the Service like a diploma mill or a cert mill, though. There's so much more you will learn and be a part of if you choose to join. So many more experiences. Leadership training and opportunities. I have friends from HS that haven't ever left the US, and I've been to at least 12 different countries on 3 continents (some visits were happier than others). There are other benefits as well, like the GI Bill and the VA home loan.

It's not all sun and roses, of course. You will be cleaning toilets at 2 AM, you will be snipping tiny bits of string and lint from a uniform, you will be operating a buffer manufactured in the late 1800's on a floor in a barracks built in the 1950's. There will be PT. There will be knee and back injuries, bruises, sweat, cursing, all that other stuff. There is the possibility of sudden and violent death or dismemberment. There will be type A Officers and ******* Sergeants and everything else.

I'd do it all over again in a heartbeat.

JockVSJock

As someone who got off of active duty US Army doing Signal (IT), my recommendation would be...go Air Force.

Select this MOS for IT work, Client Systems...or anything related to Cyber.

https://www.airforce.com/careers/detail/client-systems

Ask questions in non-recruiter forums to get more truthful answers:

Air Force


USAF is currently taking enlistee up to age 39.

https://www.airforce.com/how-to-join/process/enlisted


The reason I recommend USAF is that I work with two guys who got off of active duty. All they mainly did was IT/Cyber. Once in awhile they had to scoop snow or hang out on the flight line. However they have a ton of certs (Windows/VMware) and both of them went to VMWare World while active duty.

I didn't get any certs in the US Army, I didn't have time because I was always doing soldier work and none of my company commander's cared about training up their soldiers. Plus I found it hard to study in the barracks, because its constant wine, woman and song. So be prepared for a shock if you live on your own.

However if you can put up with it for 4 to 6 years, you'll come out ahead.

TNbound

then there are units like Joint Communications Unit where Army has the advantage over other units because they can stay for a quick minute.

infoscrub

I'm Air Guard and do it full time. I'll try to throw a little bit of advice/experience in.

Guard units can be wildly different in what you learn and do. I hear good things about some guard units having a very fast and tight revolving door with civilian companies nearby but be aware that if your base doesn't have a mission related to comm/it then you will be some variant of on site helpdesk with the NOSC running many of your services.

You may or may not be dropped in an environment conducive to learning. I would highly recommend talking to the full timers in the positions you are applying for. You will essentially be working for and learning from these people. Some of them are military first and comm by accident. A little introspection might be helpful. If it is so easy to "get a civilian job for 100k" why are the people teaching you making 60-80k? You might want to repeat that question for any branch and when you are getting technical training.

Your career field is not going to be as important as the work you actually end up doing. I had the experience of being told my job was "firewalls" by every individual up until I got to the school at which point the word "compliance" became my job. I've been in shops where three different career fields were interchangeable. I've seen a place where "cyber ops" meant Active directory and servers and another place where cyber ops meant quickly build and deploy network infrastructure.

Also look up the guard/reserve benefits by state. Some states have a tuition waiver for state schools. Some of them do this in states where the state schools have really good CS and IT programs.

518 wrote: »

much like majority of the responses, you can select your AFSC before you sign the contract.
I'm not sure where you live, but another option...join the Air National Guard.
- Select 1B4X1 AFSC.

1B4's are a prior service AFSC. Meaning you need to already have been in for 4-5 years and put in a package that may or may not be selected to join the AFSC.

supafish9

After checking out the career section on some other bases in Texas, does anyone have experience or know more about the roles of 17DX (Network Operations Officer)?

I've already contacted a local recruiter last week but haven't heard a response. I'm assuming that they're enjoying the long weekend and have a backlog to deal with when the work week starts.

soletek

I know branches like Navy and Air force guarantee contracts and most likely work in your field. You may need ask those who are join which jobs are which but this board seem to have done that for you. Most biggest suggestion is to not join if you are not into military. I've seen a lot of soldiers kick out because they didn't like it.

xxxkaliboyxxx

soletek wrote: »

I know branches like Navy and Air force guarantee contracts and most likely work in your field. You may need ask those who are join which jobs are which but this board seem to have done that for you. Most biggest suggestion is to not join if you are not into military. I've seen a lot of soldiers kick out because they didn't like it.

I joined as a 25B guarantee in the Army. Did I actually do my job all 8 years? meh, that's up for debate.

I tell you what though, the soft skills I learned from the Army got me promoted in the civilian world. I'm also a lot more "flexible" than my sister branches. While my prior AF and Navy co-workers complain about any new procedure or change, I just laughed inside and tell myself "it could always be worst".........cause it has.

Edit: 25B = IT Specialist

518

xxxkaliboyxxx wrote: »

I joined as a 25B guarantee in the Army. Did I actually do my job all 8 years? meh, that's up for debate.



Edit: 25B = IT Specialist

This is why I'm more critical when interviewing prior service who claimed to have done this and that. And yet, fail to demonstrate the skills the person claim it had. It still makes me giggle each time I remember this Navy unit I used to work with. They hand out "Cyber Warrior" of the month awards. When the the closest thing to being a Cyber Warrior they have done was run cables for contractors and/or provide help desk support to the MWR network.

Page 3 of the OP's thread, pretty sure the OP has a general idea now...AF/ANG. lol

80hr

25B here as well .

I did IT work my entire career both 5 years active and currently National Guard work

Also while on active duty I was a SAW (squad automatic weapon) gunner as need be.

a few foot patrols but mostly mounted in trucks.


Join up do IT work but be ready to be a killer .... just my .02


stuff happens and being an IT guy doesn't get you off guard duty , or patrols if work needs to be done. Also two of my fellow commo guys a 25B and a 25U were hurt very badly so just keep that in mind .

datura38

I know I'm replying to a 6-month old thread, but what would you recommend to someone on active duty looking to get 1B4? I can either retrain active duty or palace chase. My goal is to maximize skills, learn as much as possible, and start making serious money. I have spent a couple of years doing "needs of the Air Force" and am trying to look out for myself too.

Thanks for your time.

Ismaeljrp

volfkhat


This is actually the reality of the situation. I couldn't have described it better.

The cons truely outweigh the pros. You are no longer a civilian in the military, and everything is a priviledge, not a right.

USMC helped me because I came from a family surviving on welfare and child support. It was the only way to support myself after highschool, and be able to go to uni considering my circumstances. Joined the Corps instead of other branches for the challenge. It was intense to say the least.

Definitely not worthy of a career in my opinion though. I do think serving has tons of intangible value though.

BillHoo

I'm retired with 27 years in the Army. Been an enlisted guy and a grunt, also been an officer and a techie.

I agree with most of what everyone has been saying about getting a good score on the ASVAB, getting your MOS in writing on the contract.

It's a lifestyle. Just because you fly a computer does not mean the job is always easier than the guy who flies a shovel.

What your day could look like as an enlisted troop:
- Wake up 4AM and put on shorts and t-shirt to go out onto a cold parade field to do you physical fitness training (usually 3 times a week) The field is usually wet and you have to lay down and do pushups and situps, then get your wet butt up and run 2-7 miles depending on who the fitness leader is for that day.
- Finish around 6:30 AM Short time for a shower and hygine and you have a few hours to get your chores done. Depending on the rotating schedule, you could be scrubbing toilets, mopping floors, sweeping grass off the decks (from all the guys getting off that wet parade field).
- If you are done by 7:30, you may have time to get in your duty uniform for breakfast. Wait in line with a few hundred guys to get breakfast and eat fast. No lounging around for conversation. The dining facility needs to feed several thousand soldiers in a short time and they close at 8:30!
- Rush to get to your unit area and check you uniform to make sure you look OK - did you forget to shave? Pull a razor out of your pocket and dry shave on the spot!
- Stand in formation and receive the orders of the day. Some people get sent on special duties, or have to get their shots, or urinalysis done, etc.
- 10AM You are released from the formation and have to get to your job - Techies go to the office
- 10:15 Make the coffee, check the messages. New guys are on Helpdesk. Officer walks in, you snap to attention.
11:30 - Your boss tags you to go for motor pool duty to service your department's vehicles and help out at the motor pool. You fill up the gas, check the oil and fluids, vaccuum out the cab, follow a maintenance manual to check tires and transmission, etc. You may get tagged by the motor sergeant to sweep the parking lot or cut the grass along the fenceline. It's either a scalding hot day or raining cats and dogs!
12:00 Lunch - same deal as breakfast
1PM You may have another formation, or you may go straight back to the offfice. Check your assigned job, calls, etc.
1:30 Your team chief tells you to sit in for annual Veneral Disease briefing. You go to a classroom and watch a video about the dangers of unprotected sex.
2:00 Your team chief sets you aside for Hip pocket training - Your the new Helpdesk guy, but he might teach you how to splice cable, or do server maintenance, or examine audit logs.
2:30 Back to your desk job.
3:30 Prep for end of day. You have to empty the trash, sweep the floors around the office and/or buff the floors, clean all the screens, etc.
4:00 back to the unit area for end of day formation. While waiting, your Squad leader grabs everyone to clean weapons. Get ready to scrub and clean carbon of the bolt of an M-16 with smelly solvents, rags and pipe cleaners. Anything black and greasy left on when you turn it in and you get slapped back in line to redo it!

4:30 Formation time! Everyone gets into their place! Reports are given to the commander on what went on and accomplishments of the day.
4:30 You are released for end of the day. Go wait in line for dinner or skip it and go back to the room to prep your uniform for the next day and clean your room for inspection. You may have to go through your field equipment to make sure your tent pegs are clean and everything is polished. If you are slacking on your physical fitness, you may get pulled out to do remedial training. A drill sergeant will be riding you for a few hours making you work harder on pushups and situps. Then you get released.

On average you might have 7:30 to 10 as personal time. Lights out at 10. and start all over again at 4AM.

The next day is pretty much the same - unless you get tagged for KP duty. then you skip physical fitness and go to the dining facility and help the cooks. they have you do jobs they don't want to do - long day 4AM til after everyone had eaten(8PM?) Wash dishes and burnt baking pans, mop floors, clean the grease traps. Haul 100 pound bags of rice, noodles, pancake mix, potatoes, etc., clean out the rat traps. Wipe the tables and chairs (troops can get messy and leave Cr@p all over the place!), clean the restrooms after a thousand guys have gone through it!, etc. then there's guard duty....

Aaaah good times....

BillHoo

Do you guys have in-service recruiters or career counselors at your unit? they can help steer you better.

datura38 wrote: »

I know I'm replying to a 6-month old thread, but what would you recommend to someone on active duty looking to get 1B4? I can either retrain active duty or palace chase. My goal is to maximize skills, learn as much as possible, and start making serious money. I have spent a couple of years doing "needs of the Air Force" and am trying to look out for myself too.

Thanks for your time.

boxerboy1168

Join the Navy under the IT rate, IT and AZ both handle IT related positions. AZ is less technical and more OJT while the IT rate has more extensive schooling. So either one of those rates will get you some experience in an IT roll.

EANx

Military pensions don't change until the end of 2017 and even then they change, they don't go away..

518

BillHoo wrote: »

Do you guys have in-service recruiters or career counselors at your unit? they can help steer you better.

datura38 mentioned he's in the AF. We do have career counselors in every squadron. datura38 is better off asking a career counselor. There was a shortage of 1B4 a few years ago, most people who cross-train fails the tech school.

80hr wrote: »

25B here as well .

I did IT work my entire career both 5 years active and currently National Guard work

Also while on active duty I was a SAW (squad automatic weapon) gunner as need be.

a few foot patrols but mostly mounted in trucks.


Join up do IT work but be ready to be a killer .... just my .02


stuff happens and being an IT guy doesn't get you off guard duty , or patrols if work needs to be done. Also two of my fellow commo guys a 25B and a 25U were hurt very badly so just keep that in mind .

Agreed. As a CTR in FOB Shank in 2011, I've seen my 25B counterparts patrolling outside the wire and or duty at the ECP. Even female 25B goes outside the wire and perform pat-downs...they got more balls than I do, lol. I remember this samoan named Malaga, he's a SAW gunner and a 25B as well.