Underperforming employee who keeps buying the team food

blatini

Our team is 4 people. CIO, infrastructure engineer, jr admin and help desk.
Our previous infrastructure engineer left and we hired someone who is clearly not what we thought. He admitted to test dumping to me privately for every cert he has (VCP CCNA MCSE some others) and just generally doesn't have the "get it" mind set that you need in IT. He won't do anything without being explicitly told to do it including calling ISP's. We had an outage with one of our systems and probably 20 open tickets. He went to a doctor's appointment, came back 2 hours later and didn't bother following up with anyone. Doesn't use the ticketing system at all because I guess nobody showed him? Just all around shitty employee I suppose.

The flip side being he really tries to be nice. He goes to Carls JR and gets buy one get ones for the team. He takes us out to lunch every other Friday (nothing fancy but it's always a sit down place). Still my coworker and I have openly complained and lobbied to have him replaced. My boss has brought up the under performance to him which immediately resulted in more Carl's JR, him interacting with us and asking if we need help, but still just not being proactive / really getting it. I've more or less taken over his job (which isn't practical long term since I do not know AD well enough) and it sucks. I know I shouldn't be taking the stuff he's getting but it would make an already awkward situation move to the boiling point if I just stopped.

Has anyone been in a similar situation? I feel like I'm screwed either way I approach it. At the least I am hoping some of you guys have some funny stories.

NetworkNewb

blatini wrote: »

My boss has brought up the under performance to him which immediately resulted in more Carl's JR

Nice!! More Carl's JRs!!

Kidding, of course that sucks, but since your boss doesn't seem like he is willing to find a new engineer you'll probably have to deal with it(at least while you work there). If you want to try and find a bright side, your getting the opportunity to take on situations that can help you learn more and more things you can add to your resume for future positions. Or if that guy ever leaves you would probably be due for a promotion.

cyberguypr

You are making an enormous mistake by taking over his stuff. That is the definition of enabling. If you don't let people fail no one will see the problem. The job will still get done and it will be business as usual. If you stop helping maybe your team's image will be affected for a little while but I am sure once this guy either improves or is booted things will get better. So you decide, take a small hit now or get complacent doing someone's job while they put minimum effort, get paid, and suck the life out of the team.

As you can see I have zero patience for unmotivated slackers that don't carry their own weight.

Legacy User

What is there to approach? You mentioned management is aware and brought it up to him already. Let management deal with it and keep enjoying the Carls Jr jk lol. If you more or less taken over his job not sure if he is above you or under you on the totem pole but if its above you could brush up on AD and move up.

But with that said I would say if you are accepting food from him it would be nice to give him a heads up mentioning on things he could do to help out the team. Did you ask him if he needed help with anything instead of assuming he's supposed to know everything? I know he should be the one asking but if you are accepting food from him I know I would extend a hand to help out.

Blucodex

How old is this employee? Test dumping or not, how did he slip through the interview process? It sounds like you really have two options and one has already been used.

jeremywatts2005

If he is as bad as you say he is which I believe you then I would be the manager who would sit in front of him eat his Carl's junior while I terminated him. Then say thanks and walk him out the door. Hopefully you manager put him on a performance plan and is tracking his behavior for write ups then termination. That is the appropriate thing to do. As a side note I had a manager early in my career take me to a Cracker Barrel made my buy my own meal and in the middle of it handed my the lay off notice. I was ticked at least he could have bought the meal before laying me off.

Fulcrum45

Clearly the Carl's Jr. is working. Hell, I could deal with a bit of incompetence for some of those fries. I agree with NetworkNewb. Take over his job. Learn some new things. If you screw up? Well, it's kind of on him because he should have been doing it in the first place- hopefully that's how your boss would see it anyway. Eventually though Carl's Jr wont be enough to protect him and he'll need to resort to Arby's (win!) or get tossed to the curb. A good personality can keep almost any job on life support- at least for a while. But eventually he's going to have step up.

mbarrett

The limitations of the job need to be clearer - if expectations are not being met, then it's up to his supervisors to communicate that (and constantly reinforce exactly what is required!) If he skips out during outages, are those planned absences? I can see the necessity of keeping your doctor's appointment, as long as it's communicated ahead of time.
No amount of free food should replace that - the company does not pay him to be a catering service.

Blucodex

jeremywatts2005 wrote: »

If he is as bad as you say he is which I believe you then I would be the manager who would sit in front of him eat his Carl's junior while I terminated him. Then say thanks and walk him out the door. Hopefully you manager put him on a performance plan and is tracking his behavior for write ups then termination. That is the appropriate thing to do. As a side note I had a manager early in my career take me to a Cracker Barrel made my buy my own meal and in the middle of it handed my the lay off notice. I was ticked at least he could have bought the meal before laying me off.

You slapped him right?

blatini

Blucodex wrote: »

How old is this employee? Test dumping or not, how did he slip through the interview process? It sounds like you really have two options and one has already been used.

He's in his 40's I would think. ex military worked in oil and gas for like 20 years
The interview process was definitely not done well. Nobody really fit what the previous guy was - who literally did everything (networking, systems, automation, citrix, vmware). The person in question is REALLY good hitting buzz words and things that kind of relate but can't really put that into action.

Also cyberprguy I see this as an opportunity for me to prove myself in my role and hopefully make the next hire someone who is just focused on systems and I can get a promotion. Also although FTE I am paid hourly and I can't say I hate the overtime pay.

His time is definitely going to end soon here. I don't think there's any way around it. I think it has to do with timing and having someone to come into the role. I just need some ferris bueller esque ways of getting out of the situation at this point. I told him I brought my lunch today and his response was "**** that! Who wants reheated spaghetti when I'm buying you free pho" ...... I can't argue with that!!

volfkhat

blatini wrote: »

His time is definitely going to end soon here. I don't think there's any way around it. I think it has to do with timing and having someone to come into the role. I just need some ferris bueller esque ways of getting out of the situation at this point. I told him I brought my lunch today and his response was "**** that! Who wants reheated spaghetti when I'm buying you free pho" ...... I can't argue with that!!

lol
funny stuff :]

Don't feel bad for him... he knows that he's a fraud.

So, you are taking over New responsibilities.
WHoopee.

Earn that experience.
Either they will CAN him.... or YOU will eventually Move on to a new job.

UncleB

blatini wrote: »

we hired someone who ...just generally doesn't have the "get it" mind set that you need in IT. He won't do anything without being explicitly told to do it including calling ISP's.
...
Doesn't use the ticketing system at all because I guess nobody showed him? Just all around shitty employee I suppose.

Sounds like your team haven't done a good job in explaining how things are done and showing the processes. If this guy came from a long background in a different sector then he may be used to doing things very differently.

blatini wrote: »

We had an outage with one of our systems and probably 20 open tickets. He went to a doctor's appointment, came back 2 hours later and didn't bother following up with anyone.

If he had this booked in before then if the outage was urgent then one of the other staff should have handled it although the new guy should at least have asked for an update.

blatini wrote: »

...my coworker and I have openly complained and lobbied to have him replaced. My boss has brought up the under performance to him which immediately resulted in more Carl's JR, him interacting with us and asking if we need help, but still just not being proactive / really getting it.

The problem is squarely with your manager to evaluate if it is really an issue with the new guy or with your team not accepting the new blood who doesn't quite gel.

blatini wrote: »

I've more or less taken over his job (which isn't practical long term since I do not know AD well enough)

Bad move. You need to let the new guy know clearly what is expected (in writing) and create a paper trail that you can use to demonstrate their lack of ability or aptitude if you are going to gang up on him.

He is clearly trying to win you over with the gifts of food and general hospitality so it could make you look petty if you don't keep clear records to back up your claims. Keep it all about the facts and prove you have explained the ground rules to the new guy plus given him the documentation to use.

For the new guy it isn't always obvious how you work and many companies are different, so make take steps to give him one last chance and use the process to document your procedures for the inevitable replacement member of staff.

MontagueVandervort

Eat and be merry! Haha just kidding but...

blatini wrote: »

I know I shouldn't be taking the stuff he's getting but it would make an already awkward situation move to the boiling point if I just stopped.

Moving it to the boiling point seems to be the most efficient route to take here, to me. Anything else is like some type of IT codependency situation lulz. You're just delaying the inevitable and making it unnecessarily grueling.

scenicroute

blatini wrote: »

Doesn't use the ticketing system at all because I guess nobody showed him?

Someone should probably show him how to use the ticketing system, and anything else that is proprietary to your company's operations. It's one thing to come into a job not knowing universal basics pertaining to said job (like subnetting for a network engineer), but each company will have its own way of doing certain things and that stuff needs to be taught.

Personally, I don't like feeling like Chester in the Chester & Spike cartoon, having to hound people on how to do every little thing. Remember these two?



If there's company documentation the guy can learn company-specific information from, then someone needs to make sure he knows where that documentation is. I'm all for being proactive, but I shouldn't have to harass people to get basic training for stuff that can't be learned anywhere else except from people at that company. In those instances, the company should be on the proactive side and provide the essential training.

blatini

It wasn't a prebooked appointment he just sends an email out right before he goes. For example today. He's taking us out to lunch again and emailed at 10:45 (so an hour and a half ago) he had to leave to pick up a prescription and still isn't back.
I agree with the majority of your points regarding management and setting expectations. I just feel like at this point I can't do that myself or rather have no idea how I could go about it without making it worse. He is supposed to be my superior and I can't really tell the CIO to manage him either. I've been here less than 6 months which I guess adds to it as well.

brewboy

How long has he been working there?

Remedymp

Your team doesn't have a clear vision and it's easier to just use the new guy as the scapegoat.

JMHO...

shochan

well, when you are in "weed country" getting these free lunches definitely helps with the munchies! LOL! Cheers & HI5!

DatabaseHead

I love this guy, Carls Jr!

Anonymouse

I know it's free food and all but I really wouldn't appreciate someone giving me fast food when I already prepare fairly healthy lunches for myself. I've been in this sort of position before and have complained. In my instance my hard work and knowledge didn't win anything over the underperforming tech fetching snacks for the manager. I left and they promoted the tech to my job. They then proceeded to call me every few days asking for help on pretty basic tasks that someone at that level should know.

anhtran35

blatini wrote: »

It wasn't a prebooked appointment he just sends an email out right before he goes. For example today. He's taking us out to lunch again and emailed at 10:45 (so an hour and a half ago) he had to leave to pick up a prescription and still isn't back.
I agree with the majority of your points regarding management and setting expectations. I just feel like at this point I can't do that myself or rather have no idea how I could go about it without making it worse. He is supposed to be my superior and I can't really tell the CIO to manage him either. I've been here less than 6 months which I guess adds to it as well.

He suppose to be YOUR SUPERIOR? Carful treading. He probably has more clout then you realize. We had someone at a previous job complain about a co worker. Similar issues. Months later the ax came to the complainer. Additionally, you only been their 6 months. You are a rookie too.

blatini

brewboy wrote: »

How long has he been working there?

2 months

Your team doesn't have a clear vision and it's easier to just use the new guy as the scapegoat.

JMHO...

I didn't mean for this to be a roast of the guy (even though I clearly caused it), but he isn't a scapegoat. There's no need for a scapegoat. There haven't been any problems aside from your typical things (IE: carrier goes down etc). I will agree that the vision is bad but in my experience there is always that rocky send off for your 200-400 employee companies when you lose someone who is that integral.
It's just a funny work situation ala Seinfeld I figured I'd share and hopefully get some feedback from people who have been in a similar situation

Edit - Although you might be talking about the training process and such. Which I can see I just don't really agree with. In smaller teams I have always seen most training is done by approaching others, asking questions and a willingness to step in when something arises. Maybe that isn't the case everywhere and I am just a close minded idiot.

DatabaseHead

anhtran35 wrote: »

He suppose to be YOUR SUPERIOR? Carful treading. He probably has more clout then you realize. We had someone at a previous job complain about a co worker. Similar issues. Months later the ax came to the complainer. Additionally, you only been their 6 months. You are a rookie too.

It's a good point, you gotta be careful complaining.

@OP

I experienced this before, you usually just cover for them until management realizes they no longer need them. Then you get their work and your work. You then look back and wish he was back, because regardless of how worthless they were, it was another resource who could help (even a little).

Just saying.

blatini

It's a long story how it came up. Suffice to say I was not the person who initiated the complaints. I only confirmed

NetworkNewb

Anonymouse wrote: »

I know it's free food and all but I really wouldn't appreciate someone giving me fast food when I already prepare fairly healthy lunches for myself.

I agree with this, I would definitely make sure he is aware of my eating habits and he purchases healthier options some of the time. Problem solved.

jelevated

I don't care how much delicious food you bring me even if it was chipotle or Chick-fil-A, I wouldn't associate with anyone who dumped their certs. I don't hang out with scoundrels.

ande0255

I was hired for a VOIP / Infrastructure Engineer role with no previous experience and a CCNA R/S I passed a year prior, so it might as well had been dumped as it was never used.

If he is just being lazy I'd fire him without thinking twice, nice or not, but if he is willing to be mentored and follow your leadership see how that goes. You might create a really good network admin

blargoe

cyberguypr wrote: »

You are making an enormous mistake by taking over his stuff. That is the definition of enabling. If you don't let people fail no one will see the problem. The job will still get done and it will be business as usual. If you stop helping maybe your team's image will be affected for a little while but I am sure once this guy either improves or is booted things will get better. So you decide, take a small hit now or get complacent doing someone's job while they put minimum effort, get paid, and suck the life out of the team.

As you can see I have zero patience for unmotivated slackers that don't carry their own weight.

Absolutely this. Do not do their job, or it will become your job. Personal experience.

Boy, I could tell you some stories that makes this guy look like employee of the year if I had the time right now.

revbox

This is what happens when the interview process fails. Either HR did the interview/hiring and lacked the technical chops to read between the lines or the IT Manager interviewing him didn't have the soft skills to ask the right questions and read between the lines. It is hard in small shops like you mentioned because there might not be a Senior VMWare Engineer to test the guy on his VMWare knowledge or a Senior Systems Engineer to quiz them on Active Directory. Thus, anyone with paper and buzzwords can give the impression they are competent.

Sounds like a nice guy. I do not blame him for test dumping. That was his choice. I do blame being lazy. If you get hired for something you are not yet ready for, fine. Your co-workers and management will discover that over time. That can even be fixed if the person fits well into the team and wants to grow. Unfortunately, you can't grow someone who refuses to do so. Management needs to solve this problem before anyone who makes below his salary level that has to cover his tail leaves to go elsewhere.

Also, if you approach your manager once or twice and this situation isn't changing, then there isn't much you can do except eating the free Carl Jr.'s and stop doing his job for him. If he sends you an e-mail asking for help, copy your manager in with your reply that way you are showing how much you are doing things.

TheFORCE

Why are all of you accepting food from him? I wouldn't feel comfortable for 1 person to ne treating me out to lunch every week. I would feel like i have to treat him also.

I used to do that with my last team, go out to lunch everyday all of us. But weall paid our share.

blatini

TheFORCE if I came to your desk and put a steak egg and cheese on it 2-3 times a week you are telling me you would just give it back?

You know there are people in africa who.......................