Amazon... Insidious Menace?

LeBroke

ande0255 wrote: »

If you have ever worked with AWS, in my opinion, you want to run away from it if you plan any company scalability at all.

They make it as cryptic on their interface as possible, so only extremely trained AWS Experts can navigate their interface, meaning if you jump in bed with AWS you are going to have a tough time jumping back out of bed with them.

I always warn my customers, when it comes to edge devices, you just can't beat a single or paired edge device(s) and internal servers to handle all the network services you could possibly need. This way if you change MSP's or your AWS Expert quits without notice, you aren't left completely **** out of luck.

I am not worried at all about AWS, I don't think this whole "Cloud" movement is really as staggering as people think, unless you are talking in terms of regular employees logging into Citrix or a Terminal Server at a Data Center to retrieve their applications.

Perhaps this is the case with Enterprise customers, but for SMB's I see them utilizing my companies Managed Cloud to deliver workers applications, however there is still a need for engineers to build / maintain the connections to those Datacenters / makes changes on both sides (VPN) at times when ISP's change or adding redundant connections.

I think you greatly misunderstand AWS and how it's supposed to work if that's your opinion.

If you're using the AWS UI for anything other than some basic troubleshooting or as an informational dashboard, you're already doing it wrong.

AWS is about their extremely powerful API that you can invoke with a number of methods (Boto, Ansible/Chef/Puppet, CloudFormation, Terraform, etc). You script your environment from scratch, from low-level networking (i.e. VPC, subnets, firewall rules), to application level configuration of individual servers (i.e. your tomcat and nginx config files).

Once that part is done, scaling becomes extremely easy. You want your application to scale with demand? Great, create an Auto-Scaling Group behind a load balancer, configure some triggers (i.e. number of connections or CPU utilization), and watch the ASG scale up from 4 servers to 25 as user demand increases, and then scale down to 2 when there's no-one using the platform.

You want to scale a to a different region? Great, you already have all the scripts in place to spin up another environment in Frankfurt or Tokyo with almost no extra work -> everything else past this point is going to be getting your actual application to work across multiple regions/data centres.

Amazon's problem is that their platform is extremely expensive, especially for smaller companies. On a basic level, it's just as easy to use as VMware, just that the skillset is a little different. VMware, sure, you just need to click a dozen times to spin up a VM. But then you have a physical server to maintain, that sits on a physical network, that needs to have its own SDN defined, behind a firewall somewhere, needs an OS installed on it, etc. In AWS you can do the same thing via the dashboard.

That said, if you need 5 VMs that will never be touched, then yes, there's literally no point in using AWS when you can use pretty much any other provider for 1/2 to 1/3 the cost.

Priston

@OP
I'm confused. Your worried about a company that doesn't care about making a profit and cares more about saving the consumer money?

If the man hours needed to provide everyone with food, clothes, and shelter is reduced, shouldn't the cost? If all you need is food, clothes, and shelter shouldn't the cost of living go down?

Do people working in marketing and sales really benefit consumers? Computers could easily do that job this day and age.
What if we spent less time selling a product and more time making it? We would have more product and it would cost less.

What if we focused on the things that truly mattered, maybe the retirement age would be 45 instead of 65, maybe working will be optional for some of our great grand kids to survive.

Maybe you should be less focused on where your spending your money and more focused on why your spending your money.

kalimuscle

Right on Brother !


My goal is to be financially free - That means I want to live a life where I do not have to worry OR think about money.


Most people never get there -


But I will Try or die trying !


lol

Slowhand

Y'know, I had some insight to share in response to the OP about the importance of adapting to changing technology, but quite frankly I think this sums up my general feelings on the matter:

volfkhat

Priston wrote: »

@OP
I'm confused. Your worried about a company that doesn't care about making a profit and cares more about saving the consumer money?

Wow...
now this guy really knows how to frame a question!
lol


No, priston.
I'm worried about a company that is making a habit of consolidating jobs (one industry, after another).
A company that is steadily consolidating power/influence in this country (and abroad).
A company that has (rightly or wrongly) been accused of questionable workplace abuses.


But fret not.
If you are the type of person who is "confused" about my concerns... then you are not the intended audience of this thread.

huntert

took a free course on udemy from linux academy aws concepts

aderon

There's still servers that need to be configured, scripts that need to be written, databases, load balancers, etc. You'd need to expand your skillset to understand the "aws way" of doing things, their terminology, and interface but realistically if you had 0 sys admin knowledge it'd be impossible to configure an enterprise-level AWS environment from the ground up. To me, AWS just feels like a compliment to the currently existing sysadmin skillset.

kalimuscle

aderon wrote: »

There's still servers that need to be configured, scripts that need to be written, databases, load balancers, etc. You'd need to expand your skillset to understand the "aws way" of doing things, their terminology, and interface but realistically if you had 0 sys admin knowledge it'd be impossible to configure an enterprise-level AWS environment from the ground up. To me, AWS just feels like a compliment to the currently existing sysadmin skillset.

you also need to keep up to date with these cloud computing platforms because they evolve each week basically the vendore adds a new feature each week

anhtran35

As much as IT guys fear AWS and the other cloud base companies at the end of the day it's sticking an OS in a datacenter. Evolve or die. Cloud is here to stay. I don't believe all companies will transition to Cloud. Some are too small or others can run it cheaper in house.

In regards to Amazon being a web base Walmart...so what? Businesses will still be around. Niche companies like Starbucks defy common sense. Spend over $5 for a cup of coffee...WHAT?! Haagen Diaz...ice cream for $10...impossible.

Danielh22185

The concept of technology replacing jobs is not new, its been going on the entire existance of human history. Yes AWS threatens traditional tech roles and offers better manageable solutions through their product. AWS is also a flavor of the technology not the be-all-say-all.

I actually listened to a good clip on Star Talk radio yesterday where they were talking about the future of fully autonomous vehicles and what major impact that would have on society / the work force. One of the biggest impacts to the American workforce in particular is the ability to automate / eliminate nearly all "driver-based-jobs", which equates to 3% of the total workforce in America (~10million).

However this is just an example of a repeating cycle of the impact of technology. One replaces the other. Also it is never done just "overnight". Will some technology adopt to mainstream quicker as time goes on? Of course. However you are not being a good IT professional if you are not keeping up with the current and focusing on adapting your technical skills accordingly.

Node Man

I would imagine that driver-less cars are going to usher in a new golden age of frivolous litigation.

volfkhat

Yet Another Industry heading for Consolidation:
http://www.economist.com/news/business-and-finance/21723680-investors-hammered-shares-other-grocers-wake-deal-industry-shudders

But.... no big deal, right?

NetworkNewb

volfkhat wrote: »

But.... no big deal, right?

Meh, Amazon is trying selling anything and everything they can online. I don't see this one catching on for awhile for Amazon. Who wants someone else picking out their produce for them? No thanks. I don't plan on trusting a warehouse to get me fresh perishable goods anytime soon.

EagerDinosaur

I think the move from in-house IT infrastructure to cloud is unstoppable, at least for several years. As a developer and 3rd-line support person, my subjective impression is that in-house infrastructure is inflexible, unreliable and over-priced. I'm tired of having to explain to customers that their live system has gone down because a server has failed, but none of on-call system administors or DBAs are contactable to investigate. Of course, I'm only seeing one side of the picture. Even large companies seem unable to run efficient and reliable in-house infrastructre.

On the other hand, it does worry me that companies are rushing into vendor lock-in by modifying their systems to use AWS- or Azure-specific APIs and services. It will be difficult to port their systems to another cloud provider or back in-house after that.

In the short term (i.e. less than 10 years), I don't think we've got any choice but to learn cloud technologies, including getting cloud certifications. In the longer term, I think cloud-provider lock-in is going to cause a backlash.

LeBroke

EagerDinosaur wrote: »

I think the move from in-house IT infrastructure to cloud is unstoppable, at least for several years. As a developer and 3rd-line support person, my subjective impression is that in-house infrastructure is inflexible, unreliable and over-priced. I'm tired of having to explain to customers that their live system has gone down because a server has failed, but none of on-call system administors or DBAs are contactable to investigate. Of course, I'm only seeing one side of the picture. Even large companies seem unable to run efficient and reliable in-house infrastructre.

Amazon honestly isn't much more reliable. It just provides you the tools to re-architect your environment so bits and pieces can come up and down as needed, providing a better outward appearance, but it can all come crashing down when critical pieces of your environment (i.e. a database) go down.

It's also much, MUCH, more expensive than in-house infrastructure if you have static demand. It's getting cheaper now (economies of scale and all that), but not quickly enough to counterbalance a VMware cluster.

Finally, if a live system stops working because a single box has failed, there isn't enough redundancy in your system or management has decided to accept this type of risk. Moving to AWS isn't going to solve the issue. Only difference is, the sysadmin will be moving around EBS volumes instead of trying to fix a kernel panicking VM. It's a culture/resources problem, not a platform one.

volfkhat

Retail...

Panther

Sh*t, I'm just thinking of getting into Sys Admin/Management.

Where do AWS and Azure admins work? Amazon, Microsoft, MSPs?

Who utilizes AWS/Azure? Of the places I worked, I never heard talk of AWS/Azure.

Office365, Citrix, VMWare, Microsoft RDS, cloud/hosted mainframe, ... yes.

Soooooo, if cloud/hosted server can be anywhere, won't AWS/Azure admins go the way of outsourcing?

TheFORCE

Panther wrote: »

Sh*t, I'm just thinking of getting into Sys Admin/Management.

Where do AWS and Azure admins work? Amazon, Microsoft, MSPs?

Who utilizes AWS/Azure? Of the places I worked, I never heard talk of AWS/Azure.

Office365, Citrix, VMWare, Microsoft RDS, cloud/hosted mainframe, ... yes.

Soooooo, if cloud/hosted server can be anywhere, won't AWS/Azure admins go the way of outsourcing?

You have government regulations that dont allow you to store customer data wherever you like, they have to be stored within the area you operate. Thus you have AWS hosted in US for example and managed in US.

mbarrett

volfkhat wrote: »

Look at the Malls across the country; many are fading (and all the jobs that go with it).
But i don't totally blame 'Amazon' for that (arguably, they were already in decline).

But if/when BestBuy eventually folds... what then?
Will you/some really argue that Amazon wasn't the reason?

If I can continue this thread necro -
I would argue that Amazon NEEDS Best Buy to showcase their products. Amazon is using everyone else as their showroom. How many of you have never gone shopping somewhere, and then go home & buy the exact same thing off of Amazon because you can save a few dollars? This is the exact reason Border's went out of business, and Barnes & Noble almost did (they have half the stores they once did, and changed their focus as a business.) Best Buy only carries a limited "representative" inventory in their stores - I went there a few months ago, and the sales reps seemed more skilled at looking things up on their web-based inventory than actual knowledge of the product. Amazon (obviously) has zero technical knowledge, they will simply take your money (and give you a refund if it doesn't work out.) Meanwhile, they are just harvesting the personal information of countless millions of people, and storing it in some database someplace.
Anyway, the value of brick-and-mortar is that you should be able to go there and talk to an actual person who has some level of knowledge about the products they are selling. Automating that process is still a long, long way away...

NetworkNewb

When it comes to expensive things, like a TV or computer, I much rather go to a store like Best Buy and purchase them. If anything goes wrong with them ever I'd rather bring it in where I bought it and deal with a person over trying to talk on the phone with someone about it. Then have to send the product back to them and wait awhile to get another one.

I'd say anything over $200 I would go out of my way and even spend a little more $$ to buy at an actual store near me.

Story that is sorta related...
A couple weeks ago, I bought a Herman Miller Mirra 2 chair off of eBay. They said it was slightly used but in perfect shape and it listed all the features I had on it. Was listed for $600 (a new one with all the features would've costed at least $1000) and sounded like a pretty sweet deal. I bought it. The process of shipping to me was taking a long time. When I looked up the tracking number it said it got shipped to my city and then got shipped all the way back to origin city and was in the process of getting shipped to my city again! I ended up calling FedEx and they said they would look into. Which later that day they said they lost the package.... Contacted the seller on eBay about it and they were nice enough and said they were going to ship me out a replacement that day. When I got the replacement chair it was missing a few of the features that it was supposed to be on it... I really wanted those features (one feature was the adjustable back support) so told them I didn't want the chair and wanted to ship it back and refund. Which they said they would do. This was now over 3 weeks from when I actually purchased it. Was now thinking I wasted 3 weeks waiting for this chair and wasted a bunch of my time for nothing. And wishing I would've just spent the $1000 and got it from a store that sells them near me.

Funny thing is, FedEx contacted me a few days later I sent the replacement back and after the company refunded me the $600, saying that they found the package and that label just fell off. They asked me where should send the package. To me or back to the seller... Lets just say I'm sitting in a free Herman Herman Mirra 2 chair right now. (with all the features on it)



Edit: lol @ the negative rep comment "I hate FedEx with a passion, but not as much as I hate thieves."

Come on now, they are definitely open to charge me for the chair they sent me still. I'm not going to do their job though. If they took 2 seconds and looked up the tracking number of the package they sent they would see it got delivered. Assuming they must of got refunded by FedEx or if they didn't they are apparently very lazy.

volfkhat

mbarrett wrote: »

If I can continue this thread necro -
I would argue that Amazon NEEDS Best Buy to showcase their products. Amazon is using everyone else as their showroom. How many of you have never gone shopping somewhere, and then go home & buy the exact same thing off of Amazon because you can save a few dollars? This is the exact reason Border's went out of business, and Barnes & Noble almost did...

Yep, That's exactly the point.
I give credit, it's a brilliant business model: take advantage of other businesses to host/house the product, while Amazon laughs all the way to the Bank.

But, the reality: it's Unsustainable in the longterm.
Businesses (large & small) will eventually be showcased to death.

Perhaps the future of retail will be giant Warehouses (in the middle of the country) housing all the product. And we just buy it all online (and have it shipped).
That's great and all.. but that doesn't help the lowerskilled person in your neighborhood who lost their local job. (nor, someone unable to attain a future job).
Heck, even the Warehouse workers are at risk;
https://www.wired.com/story/grasping-robots-compete-to-rule-amazons-warehouses/

mbarrett wrote: »

Anyway, the value of brick-and-mortar is that you should be able to go there and talk to an actual person who has some level of knowledge about the products they are selling.

Unsustainable.
In our "race to the bottom" culture, this would translate into an added expense that consumers are not interested in paying for.
Besides, even if there was a 'knowledgeable' salesperson in the store... what's to stop the consumer from getting all his/her questions answered... and then walking right back out the door?

NetworkNewb wrote: »

Lets just say I'm sitting in a free Herman Herman Mirra 2 chair right now. (with all the features on it)

LOL
i luv your dude; but what you did is WRONG. You essentially stole from a (small?) business.

EDIT:
well... actually, i didnt consider if they had insurance on the item.
So maybe it's actually okay ;]

NetworkNewb

volfkhat wrote: »

LOL
i luv your dude; but what you did is WRONG. You essentially stole from a (small?) business.

EDIT:
well... actually, i didnt consider if they had insurance on the item.
So maybe it's actually okay ;]

Lol, yeaaa it crossed my mind. I was kinda expecting them to charge me again for it, which they still could I guess, since the original tracking number now says it has been delivered to me. I don't have any intentions of notifying them of the status of the package they sent me though Kinda believe if they cared about it at all about it that would be something they would keep track of right? Yea, I'm probably going to he77...

Was pretty annoying that I had to contact FedEx in the first place and then have them try and send me cheaper chair as a replacement for it though.

mbarrett

volfkhat wrote: »

In our "race to the bottom" culture, this would translate into an added expense that consumers are not interested in paying for.
Besides, even if there was a 'knowledgeable' salesperson in the store... what's to stop the consumer from getting all his/her questions answered... and then walking right back out the door?

Basic "supply & demand" question - the market will decide how much brick & mortar will continue to exist. It will continue to go away, until people realize the value and are willing to pay for it. There will always be individuals who need to nickel & dime everything, and others who are willing to pay for the added convenience.

jibtech

There are a number of places where BnM is shooting itself in the foot. The primary advantage of BnM is my ability to walk in, touch, feel and play with the product I am buying, and buy it on the spot.

I am blown away by how many BnM shops are now nothing more than order points to have something shipped to them, for me to then go pick up.

At that point, over the web serves the same purpose for me, and is more convenient.

matai

Read Basic Economics by Thomas Sowell:

https://www.amazon.com/Basic-Economics-Thomas-Sowell/dp/0465060730/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1504713875&sr=8-1&keywords=basic+economics+thomas+sowell

It will answer all your concerns.

beads

Great can I have my Border's Bookstore back? Eventually, Amazon and Walmart will have put too many smaller businesses out of business not to be broken up like AT&T back in the early 1980s.

Today, if I want an exotic and most IT books I want would be classified as exotic I am now forced to buy from Amazon. There is no one in my area that is going to carry these oddball books and often times I cannot order said books from say Barnes and Noble.

What am I reading today you might be thinking? https://www.amazon.com/Certified-Solutions-Architect-Official-Study/dp/1119138558 of course.

Not too bad once I got all the subservices down.

- b/eads

volfkhat

beads wrote: »

Great can I have my Border's Bookstore back? Eventually, Amazon and Walmart will have put too many smaller businesses out of business not to be broken up like AT&T back in the early 1980s...

Funny you say that, some people are saying that very same thing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCg0tSyNIqM&index=8&list=PL67plOPT3Am0JbnL_LjU2X1DfraHvVsWd

WafflesAndRootbeer

Back in the day, the tech book section at Borders was like the library of The Citadel from Game of Thrones. Books on pretty much any piece of software or electronics doodad. Some books were as big as a Yellow Pages book and had CDs within the covers! Now, you can't find much apart from cert books and introductory tomes for various things.

mbarrett

WafflesAndRootbeer wrote: »

Back in the day, the tech book section at Borders was like the library of The Citadel from Game of Thrones. Books on pretty much any piece of software or electronics doodad. Some books were as big as a Yellow Pages book and had CDs within the covers! Now, you can't find much apart from cert books and introductory tomes for various things.

Yes - they used to carry a fairly good variety of cert "guides" and various technical reference books, including some that were quite thick and maybe only a handful of people in the area could possibly be interested in. (Like CCIE titles) But there were a lot fewer certs then. I remember going into Border's, getting a cup of coffee in the cafe and then heading over to grab a pile of books to skim through. It was both informative and enjoyable. This was also before the web was only a few years old and many things were not yet developed online.
Now you can get most of the same information with a Safari subscription or looking through the extensive information & documentation found on vendor websites and various training outlets such as CBT Nuggets, etc.

volfkhat

NetworkNewb said:

Meh, Amazon is trying selling anything and everything they can online. I don't see this one catching on for awhile for Amazon.
Who wants someone else picking out their produce for them?

No thanks. I don't plan on trusting a warehouse to get me fresh perishable goods anytime soon.

so... that insight hasn't aged well....