Is a Masters degree REALLY worth it?

MontagueVandervort

Yes, I hate to say it but then you also have to calculate in all other costs that wouldn't have been incurred in an apt. like: property taxes, insurance, security services, increased heating and cooling, lawn services, all minor repairs, etc. It all adds up to more than most people would ever profit after a sale. It's just much more of a liability to own a home than it could ever be an investment lulz.

That said, I could never live in an apt. I enjoy my privacy too much.

NetworkNewb

MontagueVandervort wrote: »

property taxes, insurance, security services, increased heating and cooling, lawn services, all minor repairs, etc.

Aka maintenance items. If your renting its not like your not still paying the landlords to do those things. It just coming from the rent. They aren't doing those things out of the goodness of their heart for you. All that money that I spent, those extra expenses, I'm getting that money right back and plus some. I do get the liability aspect though. There is always chance to incur a great expense if something happens and it isn't certainty you are going to sell it for a lot more than you buy it. I think the market is probably just working in my favor right now. Low supply

ITSec14

MontagueVandervort wrote: »

Does that 120K include the interest on it also? What about all the money it took to run (upkeep, maintainance, repairs, services, etc.) for 4 yrs? If the answer to both of those questions is yes, then you've been very, very lucky. Houses (and don't get me wrong because I own one lulz) usually suck much more $ than they could ever give once you sit down and do all the math.


Edit: Plus 10% of that is gone right off the bat for the realtor, assuming you used one. Plus all the incurred fees of the sale have to be deducted, etc. etc. etc.

Those are some good points. My wife and I took a lot of that into consideration when we bought it. Fortunately we bought our house brand new and it's already worth more than we bought it for from our recent assessment. Problem in my area is looking for an apartment. The cheapest one's we could find in our area were running $1500+ a month for a 2 bed and 2 bath. Our current mortgage is under that and we have 2200+ sq ft, 3 bed and 2 1/2 bath. We did a 30 year mortgage, but with the extra payments we make, it should be paid off in 15-20 at the most. We've thought about renting it out if we ever decide to upgrade, but dealing with renters can be a nightmare as well...

Btw, I take the snowball approach to my debts. I pay off the smallest one first, then take the savings from that debt and apply it to the next. It's a great way to reduce debt quickly. It all just takes discipline...

adam220891

I would do it only if employer pays for it. Most places seem to have tuition reimbursement to some extent, which makes it easier to take a crack at it.

Realistically, if you have no aspirations for management/director/C-level executive positions, I don't know that you'll see a huge ROI on it. I would get one as a check box for a non-engineer role that pays big bucks. It won't automatically get the gig, but down the road I think those positions are difficult to obtain without one.

jdancer

adam220891 wrote: »

I would do it only if employer pays for it...

This.

Only do it if employer pays for it.

As a bonus, once you get your graduate degree, can make some side money teaching. <smile>

OctalDump

I think a good time to start a 'technical' Master's is about 5 years out. That gives you time to build up your technical skills in other ways so that the Master's is easier, and you can focus on exploring the material rather than just struggle with the basics. I'd also consider seriously if you can continue to work and pay for the degree out of pocket, rather than loans.

If you are interested in the management path, then there's a couple of options in early career, one is a Master's in Management (rather than an MBA) and the other is Project Management. Both can help get you ahead in junior to mid level roles. Later career, then it's an MBA.

I don't know about your market, but in my area with a Master's in the right area, you meet the education requirements for 99.9% of jobs. It's nice to be able to tick that box, along with the extra skills, knowledge and more rounded viewpoint that a Master's can give you.

If you are looking at ROI, then you need to consider the impact on lifetime earnings, job security (in your current role and ease of moving into other roles when the situation arises), the actual knowledge/skills you will gain and how they can help you, and the actual reward you get personally from the degree outside it's effect on your earnings. That pride that might come from gaining the degree, or the ability to do more interesting and rewarding work also has a value. You only get one life, so don't forget to actually enjoy it.

MontagueVandervort

NetworkNewb wrote: »

Aka maintenance items. If your renting its not like your not still paying the landlords to do those things. It just coming from the rent. They aren't doing those things out of the goodness of their heart for you. All that money that I spent, those extra expenses, I'm getting that money right back and plus some. I do get the liability aspect though. There is always chance to incur a great expense if something happens and it isn't certainty you are going to sell it for a lot more than you buy it. I think the market is probably just working in my favor right now. Low supply

You're paying for those services on top of your mortgage though, whereas in a rental situation it's already included so there's no "additional" which is exactly the point here lulz. Just know that you're a very lucky person right now if you made any actual profit at all. It's not usually the case, and the math is too "complex" for most people to see or grasp. I guess because it's mult-layer. *Shrugs*

ITSec14 wrote: »

Those are some good points. My wife and I took a lot of that into consideration when we bought it. Fortunately we bought our house brand new and it's already worth more than we bought it for from our recent assessment. Problem in my area is looking for an apartment. The cheapest one's we could find in our area were running $1500+ a month for a 2 bed and 2 bath. Our current mortgage is under that and we have 2200+ sq ft, 3 bed and 2 1/2 bath. We did a 30 year mortgage, but with the extra payments we make, it should be paid off in 15-20 at the most. We've thought about renting it out if we ever decide to upgrade, but dealing with renters can be a nightmare as well...

Btw, I take the snowball approach to my debts. I pay off the smallest one first, then take the savings from that debt and apply it to the next. It's a great way to reduce debt quickly. It all just takes discipline...

Yes, I get that people just look at monthly vs. monthly when comparing costs. I just tend to look at the entire picture and total cost instead for either total profit or total loss. And you're right about the renters. Don't do it.

Congratulations on your new home.

NetworkNewb

MontagueVandervort wrote: »

You're paying for those services on top of your mortgage though, whereas in a rental situation it's already included so there's no "additional" which is exactly the point here lulz.

And that is why renting cost more than monthly mortgage payments. That is the point. Except those rental payments you'll just get back when you sell the house if actually owned it. Minus the maintaince costs. In my experience of owning 2 different properties I'm the last 8 years it isn't even close and easily be up 100k over renting.

Sounds like you must have had different (bad) experiences with properties though. And I've been "lucky".

MontagueVandervort

NetworkNewb wrote: »

And that is why renting cost more than monthly mortgage payments. That is the point. Except those rental payments you'll just get back when you sell the house if actually owned it. Minus the maintaince costs. In my experience of owning 2 different properties I'm the last 8 years it isn't even close and easily be up 100k over renting.

Sounds like you must have had different (bad) experiences with properties though. And I've been "lucky".

Yes, of course renting may (depends on area) cost more than monthly mortgage payments but monthly mortgage payments are not your total cost per month. To see total costs per month you would have to come up with annual costs and divide by 12. Either way, monthly costs aren't relevant in and of themselves. It's annual costs added in total over "lifetime" of the property for a total sum that one needs to look at. But most cannot or will not do this. I understand.

What works for one may not necessarily work for another in how they select to approach life, and that's ok.

Gamesta400

Might check out WGU. I got my Masters in IT Management for only $3k. I worked on it during all my free time at work, and finished in just 5 months. It was just writing tons of papers.

the_Grinch

If wanting to go into management then a Masters will definitely be helpful. I also find that if you are trying to learn something different from your undergrad then the Masters is the way to go. All that said, do not take on additional debt in order to get the Masters. I would suggest you do the following:

1. Find a Masters program you are interested in - MBA seems to be the go to for management and lots of programs offer concentrations in Information Systems or Cybersecurity

2. Take one course at a time paying in full for each one - just about every graduate level program gives you five to seven years to complete the degree. This means while it will take awhile to complete you can successfully pay for it yourself as you go. Figure most schools will charge $500 a credit, so $3000 for six credits a year.

In that time you'll get more experience and by the time you are done you'll be ready to be management bound if that is what you want.

powerfool

It all depends on what you're after.

If your undergrad is in an unrelated field: Beneficial
If you want to transition to a slightly different (like security): Beneficial
If you want an advantage over the competition that only has an undergrad: Beneficial
If you want an advantage with getting into a senior/managerial role: Beneficial
If you want to do adjunct teaching at a college: Beneficial
If you want to do adjunct teaching at a university: Required

There are some places that do outright require it. Taking out a bunch of student loans? I would advise against it unless you are talking about an MBA at a Top 10 school; even then, you should be utilizing tuition reimbursement (and finding a job that has it, on top of meeting your other needs, if you don't have it available).

For what its worth, I got an MS in Cybersecurity Policy. My main motivation was to get some benefit out of the generous tuition reimbursement I had (this program qualified us for $10k/year when the company normally only gave $5k/year) and to get easy to document and prove CPEs for my CISSP.

Another thing to note (thanks to the_Grinch for bringing it up): I started off doing a graduate certificate program that was a subset of the MS program. It requires less commitment and you can walk away with some credential without having to be tied to something for so long.

UnixGuy

I have a different approach to be honest.

I wonder why people look at a (degree/cert/course) and say is it worth it??

The way I do it, I look at a JOB or a career move or a goal and say, what do I need to do it to get there??

Say I find a job a description and a position that I want to be in in 2 yrs, I look at the requirements and then go and plan and do them all. If they include a masters degree, then I do that, if they say Masters preferred, I do all the Essential requirements, apply, then try again.

Each situation is different. but I wouldn't do a Master's degree for the heck of it, there are better ways to spend (waste) time and money. Unless it is used to get me somewhere and I know exactly where that somewhere is AND IT IS the ONLY way to get there.

NotHackingYou

Nice to see all the different perspectives here on when, how, and why to advance your education.

ITSec14

UnixGuy wrote: »

I have a different approach to be honest.

I wonder why people look at a (degree/cert/course) and say is it worth it??

The way I do it, I look at a JOB or a career move or a goal and say, what do I need to do it to get there??

Say I find a job a description and a position that I want to be in in 2 yrs, I look at the requirements and then go and plan and do them all. If they include a masters degree, then I do that, if they say Masters preferred, I do all the Essential requirements, apply, then try again.

Each situation is different. but I wouldn't do a Master's degree for the heck of it, there are better ways to spend (waste) time and money. Unless it is used to get me somewhere and I know exactly where that somewhere is AND IT IS the ONLY way to get there.

THIS right here is honestly what goes through my head. I mean yeah, I'm totally interested in what I could learn from a Masters program, but I do see myself pursuing an Information Security Officer level position in the next 3-5 years (which many prefer a masters). Thats the thing...when I see a position that PREFERS a certain credential, that tells me "YES you should probably have this for better odds in getting this gig". I know many seasoned security pro's will say, "Certs and degrees don't mean much if experience is there." Ok, then what about someone who has experience, certs AND an advanced degree?? It's all about checking as many boxes as you can. Do I think going into more debt for a small pay raise is worth it? Not at all. But, is taking on 20k in additional debt worth getting a job that pays double what you make now? Odds are...it probably is in the long run.

So you're right, if someone is looking to move up the ladder, then you gotta do what you gotta do to make it happen.

Hatch1921

adam220891 wrote: »

I would do it only if employer pays for it. Most places seem to have tuition reimbursement to some extent, which makes it easier to take a crack at it.

Realistically, if you have no aspirations for management/director/C-level executive positions, I don't know that you'll see a huge ROI on it. I would get one as a check box for a non-engineer role that pays big bucks. It won't automatically get the gig, but down the road I think those positions are difficult to obtain without one.

Pretty solid advice.

I just finished my MBA ITM with WGU for about $17k. My work covered the bulk of the expense and the GI Bill paid for a term as well. My expenses were around $3k (work reimbursement is taxed) so I didn't recover the full amount (zero complaints)

Will the new degree pay off? Well...it's early and I can't say for sure...but.. my manager knows I've worked hard to finish what I've started and we've discussed a new career path. He's gone as far as making arrangements for me to work in another department on occasion. This will help me gain experience and hopefully lead to a higher paying position within the company. If nothing else, it's opened a door and whether I stay with the company or leave. I'm going to move forward with a new opportunity I wouldn't have had if I didn't obtain the degree. Either way... I believe the ROI is going to be much greater than the $$$ spent, even if I had to pay the $17K myself.

So... give some thought to what you might want to accomplish later in your career. Will the graduate degree separate you from your coworkers and position you for career advancements?

Just some FYI... during the graduation ceremony this past weekend... an interesting statistic... 23% of the US population has a bachelors degree or equivalent... only 8% holds a graduate degree. Tons and tons of people start school to never finish (not saying it's a bad thing---we all have our reasons) but it shows you can start and complete what you started if you do pursue a graduate degree (or any degree/cert).

Adam again has some solid advice in the quote. Have a look at what WGU has to offer... maybe something in there will interest you? It's an affordable alternative to the $70-100K programs out there....

https://www.wgu.edu/online_it_degrees/programs

Just some thoughts.... best of luck.
Hatch

ITSec14

Hatch1921 wrote: »

Pretty solid advice.

I just finished my MBA ITM with WGU for about $17k. My work covered the bulk of the expense and the GI Bill paid for a term as well. My expenses were around $3k (work reimbursement is taxed) so I didn't recover the full amount (zero complaints)

Will the new degree pay off? Well...it's early and I can't say for sure...but.. my manager knows I've worked hard to finish what I've started and we've discussed a new career path. He's gone as far as making arrangements for me to work in another department on occasion. This will help me gain experience and hopefully lead to a higher paying position within the company. If nothing else, it's opened a door and whether I stay with the company or leave. I'm going to move forward with a new opportunity I wouldn't have had if I didn't obtain the degree. Either way... I believe the ROI is going to be much greater than the $$$ spent, even if I had to pay the $17K myself.

So... give some thought to what you might want to accomplish later in your career. Will the graduate degree separate you from your coworkers and position you for career advancements?

Just some FYI... during the graduation ceremony this past weekend... an interesting statistic... 23% of the US population has a bachelors degree or equivalent... only 8% holds a graduate degree. Tons and tons of people start school to never finish (not saying it's a bad thing---we all have our reasons) but it shows you can start and complete what you started if you do pursue a graduate degree (or any degree/cert).

Adam again has some solid advice in the quote. Have a look at what WGU has to offer... maybe something in there will interest you? It's an affordable alternative to the $70-100K programs out there....

https://www.wgu.edu/online_it_degrees/programs

Just some thoughts.... best of luck.
Hatch

Appreciate the feedback. I like that WGU offer's some cert opportunities to students as a part of the curriculum.

I've done a lot of research over the past week or so and I actually really like what JMU's masters program offers. It's highly recognized by DoD and other areas of the government. Federal experience is on my radar in the future, so that might be the best option for me. Plus I can get in-state tuition.

We shall see.

hurricane1091

I got a BS degree because a job I applied for wanted one, and they didn't call me. I enrolled, updated my resume, and applied a month later when the job was re-listed and got the job. If I start looking for management jobs down the road and I see they ask for a MS/MBA, you'll see me enrolled. If not, then maybe not.