Unprofessional interview?

bpenn

I had a phone interview a few days ago with the CTO of the company. It went really well but then he wanted to do another interview at a bar for drinks. This normal? Never seen such an informal process before. Should I be worried? This is for a DoD contract job, too, which is bizarre.

scaredoftests

I have heard lunch or dinner, but drinks..no. Coffee yes, go for that.

Blucodex

Sounds like a fun place to work. I would go. They most likely think you're a great candidate and want to make sure you have the right personality. I wouldn't drink too much but I would match the boss drink for drink!

jibtech

Blucodex wrote: »

Sounds like a fun place to work. I would go. They most likely think you're a great candidate and want to make sure you have the right personality. I wouldn't drink too much but I would match the boss drink for drink!

I would go for the drinks. I would have one or two, and that's it. There are hundreds of ways to gracefully decline a drink without it becoming an issue.

I wouldn't try to match the boss drink for drink after that. The boss has the job. The applicant doesn't yet.

It could be a gesture of welcome to enjoy company of colleagues in a social environment. It could also be a boss with an alcoholism problem, and you aren't yet aware of it. If the former, gracefully declining will be respected. If the latter, you don't want to be THAT new guy. Too much risk, with little to no reward.

NetworkNewb

Having a couple drinks doesn't sound too crazy to me... Maybe wants he just wants a relaxing interview in an informal setting.

If he asks you to do a line with him you might have a problem.

UncleB

jibtech wrote: »

It could also be a boss with an alcoholism problem, and you aren't yet aware of it. ... you don't want to be THAT new guy. Too much risk, with little to no reward.

Been there, done that and still bear the mental scars.

It could also be a bit of a test to see how you do in environments other than the one you are being hired for - or the guy has only enough time to hold the interview out of hours and is multi tasking to relax and interview at once - or he is going to drug your drink and have his evil way with you.

Who knows - you won't until the interview at best or not at all at worst so check out the venue beforehand and:
- Check you aren't going to stand out like a sore thumb in a suit & tie.
- Check the noise levels at the time of day so you can work out how close to sit to hear him speak.
- Get to know the barman/maid names in case you need to get the round in.
- Find out what the house specialties are - it looks like you researched and prepared this way when asked what you want to drink.
- Ask your new barman/maid friend if the guy is a regular and if so what his favourite drink is - and where he sits. If he is a very regular visitor then should be be your direct boss, be ready to walk away as this is unlikely to end well.
- Think up some conversation topics relevant to a more relaxed environment in case you need to make them and avoid making statements that are likely to offend too many people.
- Record the conversation in case you have any questions about what was said after that 2nd bottle of malt scotch.
- Research half decent eateries nearby just in case.
- Get the number of a local cab company and assume you won't be fit to drive - or take public transport if it is open late.
- Book the next morning off as a precaution.

You are going to have to think on your feet with this one so be smart with your drinking and try not to be too stiff and serious given the environemnt - be as authentic to yourself as you can be and if you are a good fit then it should click.

Good luck and just try to enjoy the experience if nothing else.

BlackBeret

I had a friend interview with a Fortune 100 cloud company that prides themselves on their relaxed work environment and attitude. After the multiple rounds of technical interviews they invited him to walk to a bar with them. He politely declined because he thought it was a setup of some kind. A few days later he received a polite rejection letter stating that he was good technically, but wasn't a fit for their culture. Another guy that we used to work with who is currently at that company called him up. He failed the interview process because he wasn't a cultural fit, most of the interviewers felt he was too uptight, etc. etc.

All I'm saying is that if I get invited to a social setting, of course I'm going to go and act like I fit in.

Danielm7

I always wonder about things like that for people who don't drink. Seems like only 70% of the US had a drink in the last year and 56% in the last month. Seems like it would be super awkward if the CTO is expecting you to throw a few back with them.

NetworkNewb

You don't have to drink alcohol just cause your at a bar either...

Blucodex

jibtech wrote: »

I wouldn't try to match the boss drink for drink after that. The boss has the job. The applicant doesn't yet.

Tongue in cheek

TechGromit

I've heard meeting for someone for drinks to discuss business before, but never an interview. I recall from the GCIH MP3's John Stand had drinks with a new fellow co-worker and the co-worker told him he did bad stuff at his last company never would have learned about him under normal interview conditions. Perhaps it a way to get you to let your guard down and interview you then. If it was me, I'd go, but only have one drink, and soda the rest of the time.

TheFORCE

I've been to dinners and social gatherings with CTO's and CISO's. If they order a glass of wine or a beer it's ok for you to order one too. If they order a non alcoholic drink then you do the same. Basically, let them set the tone and you can follow in their example. You will never be blamed cor for their example. I've followed this rule and it has worked so far.

Danielm7

NetworkNewb wrote: »

You don't have to drink alcohol just cause your at a bar either...

Thanks, I'm aware of that. My point was if the CTO specifically requested a bar interview vs lunch, they're probably expecting you to drink with them and loosen up and talk. I don't drink myself and I have no problems going out with people and just ordering something else. I just feel when someone specifies a bar it's a possible "he doesn't feel like a good fit because he wouldn't drink with me" sort of situation.

Blucodex

Danielm7 wrote: »

Thanks, I'm aware of that. My point was if the CTO specifically requested a bar interview vs lunch, they're probably expecting you to drink with them and loosen up and talk. I don't drink myself and I have no problems going out with people and just ordering something else. I just feel when someone specifies a bar it's a possible "he doesn't feel like a good fit because he wouldn't drink with me" sort of situation.

Is it a bar or bar with food? Big difference. The last interview I had I showed up in slacks and tie and the guy and was told we are walking to sushi. I don't really do sushi but I went anyway. Wasn't a good fit in the end but my point is it's not a big deal. Don't overthink it.

NetworkNewb

Danielm7 wrote: »

Thanks, I'm aware of that. My point was if the CTO specifically requested a bar interview vs lunch, they're probably expecting you to drink with them and loosen up and talk.

I didn't mean that directed right towards your comment. Everyone seemed like they were commenting like this person had to drink alcohol just cause he wanted to meet at a bar though. If another person expects someone to drink alcohol just cause they were at a bar that would be extremely weird to me.

UncleB

NetworkNewb wrote: »

If another person expects someone to drink alcohol just cause they were at a bar that would be extremely weird to me.

It is much more common than you think. Many of the people in CTO type position are old school and want to hire people who fit into their world view, so judging them by your standards as weird won't benefit the OP.

I would recommend saying up front that you will be driving later so can only have one drink - it shows restraint, responsibility but a willingness to participate. If questioned on where you are driving, think through the scenario so you aren't making it up on the spot. If you can't keep a scenario in your head then say you are picking your partner and picking up something they bought.

If you are pushed to have more than one drink then tell interviwer you can't, then if they insist and you feel obliged then flip this to your advantage and tell then they are going to get you into so much trouble as you can't drive later so your partner is going to give you an earful. This should make the interviewer already feel a sense of responsibility towards you. Take this as a warning sign about the new job.

I'm afraid that going in saying "I don't do alcohol" is likely to come across badly for this sort of work environment so I would expect a negative outcome and a difficult interview.

TechGromit

UncleB wrote: »

It is much more common than you think. Many of the people in CTO type position are old school and want to hire people who fit into their world view, so judging them by your standards as weird won't benefit the OP.

Hey if the boss drinks until he falls over and does a couple lines of coke to boot, that's the place you want to work at... assuming your into alcoholism and drug abuse.

UncleB

TechGromit wrote: »

Hey if the boss drinks until he falls over and does a couple lines of coke to boot, that's the place you want to work at... assuming your into alcoholism and drug abuse.

If he does this in his own time then who are we to judge - so long as it has no impact on his work.

There was no expectation here of getting drunk or using drugs so I don't see the relevance of turning this into a fake interview news story LOL.

I'm not having a go at you TechGromit by the way.

The OP has been asked to go to an interview in an environment where drinking are very likely to be expected and they were asking if it is normal. In my experience it is not rare but not as common as it used to be - and I gave some pointers on how to deal with it should they want to go ahead.

If anyone has an issue with any kind of substance use (alcohol, drugs, caffaine etc) then they can be judgemental and not be a part of that world or they can accept it is a part of their environment and find ways to navigate without needing to participate. In this case participation will very likely be mandatory or you will be seen as a poor cultural fit, so they should make this clear right at the start if they will not be a part of it.

I guess I have been around too long to believe in the practicalities of taking the moral high ground all the time - life is just too short to wave at opportunities from your ivory tower of principles, wishing all those bad people out there would see the error of their ways and include you in the world you believe in.

That said, I don't drink much at all, don't do drugs and my vice of choice is making work-shy employees work extra hard just for the hell of it when I'm in a bad mood. Does that make me a bad person I wonder...?

TechGromit

UncleB wrote: »

... my vice of choice is making work-shy employees work extra hard just for the hell of it when I'm in a bad mood. Does that make me a bad person I wonder...?

The lazy employees of the world curse you existence.

As for the advise thing, I gave my serious reply first, I say if you can't have fun at work, it's not worth going to work.

Fulcrum45

I've had many an informal business dealing over drinks- just don't get sloppy. Have two drinks MAX. If you're offered another just politely decline due to the fact you need to drive home.

goatama

I may have said this before on another thread, but my company does this as well. We have a round of technical interviews and then invite the candidate out for drinks at a Happy Hour. When I went for mine I was the only one who didn't drink (I can't stand beer and it was at a brewery), I thought for sure I was getting judged for that. But I got the job.

What the others have said about "culture fit" is fairly spot on. Usually the team members will interact with the candidate, engaging them in non-shop talk. Find out what they're into, if they have hobbies or anything they're passionate about. Yes, it's usually an extension of the interview process, but it's more to get an idea of how the candidate interacts with people in a less formal setting. The only time I've ever seen the Happy Hour actually affect someone getting hired was when they either didn't show up after telling us they would, or if there's other weird stuff (i.e., weird calls, constantly on their phone instead of interacting, etc.) going on with the candidate.

Of course, this is just where I work. Other companies treat it differently, I'm sure. Your mileage may vary and all that.

hurricane1091

This seems odd to me, but I also was told to call our CTO on a Saturday morning which I thought was weird, and we had an hour long conversation which led to a job offer.

Danielh22185

I'd definitely go. Sounds to me they are just trying to get an idea if you fit their culture. Like mentioned just be careful. If you do drink make sure you only have a couple and you follow the interviewer's lead on that. Order a water first and follow their lead. If you do not drink still go but they will likely sniff that out. Just mention that you don't but show your interest in getting to know them and present yourself well in a non-formal setting.

xxxkaliboyxxx

This is an old school technique in the InfoSec and IT communities. See how compatible you are with the team (Do they like you or at least see themselves working with you day to day) and if the applicant is willing to drink (drinks will be paid for), the real truth comes out. Also it reveal how you handle yourself in a public social environment. It's a test man, play the game and for God's sake, don't have more than 1 beer if that.

By the way, even though this is a safe space and you did good asking here first, if I was considering hiring you and I found out you thought this was unprofessional, I would disqualify you from the slot right there and then and Mark it down as "incompatible" or "not a good culture fit"

markulous

I think it's a pretty good way for you to see how their culture is and what kind of guy he is. If he comes in drunk and even more hammered at the bar, then you at least know what you're walking in to. People also tend to be more open when they're drinking, so I'd have a bunch of questions ready.

If it was me, I'd probably just have one beer and that's it.

bpenn

Well, guy called me and wanted to reschedule it to lunch (haha, go figure). Had lunch with him yesterday and it went great. Awesome guy and he told me he was extremely impressed with my technical ability. I have a final interview with the CEO on Monday and CTO said to expect an offer letter so hopefully it works out!

Fulcrum45

bpenn wrote: »

Well, guy called me and wanted to reschedule it to lunch (haha, go figure). Had lunch with him yesterday and it went great. Awesome guy and he told me he was extremely impressed with my technical ability. I have a final interview with the CEO on Monday and CTO said to expect an offer letter so hopefully it works out!

Good luck!

NetworkNewb

bpenn wrote: »

Well, guy called me and wanted to reschedule it to lunch

He probably read this thread...

Good luck on the final interview!

xxxkaliboyxxx

NetworkNewb wrote: »

He probably read this thread...

Good luck on the final interview!

Isn't that the truth, you'll be surprise who read TE, but never post.

bgold87

I don't think it's a big deal. Drink slow, no more than two drinks, let him talk. OR........order round after round of Fireball shots and see what the old guys got lol

Blucodex

Did you get that offer?!