No degree, no certs, and eventually no job.

bhoops

50 yr old JOAT with no certs or degrees. My current employer will probably be out of business within 2 years, so I need to take action now.

adrenaline19

Have you considered getting certs and a degree within the next two years?

bhoops

Yes. I was in an online school, which was going well, but I had to buy a truck, and then could not afford the tuition. I could study and take certs one-by-one. I have considered the comptia certs, maybe there is a better track.

Welly_59

How much experience do you have? If you have valid experience then maybe you won't need the certs.

adrenaline19

The industry is currently built on certs. Pick a path that interests you and start obtaining the relevant certs.

Don't get down on yourself. Two years is enough time to prepare for your next move. Start working now! We're all here to help you.

bhoops

Welly_59 wrote: »

How much experience do you have? If you have valid experience then maybe you won't need the certs.

I have 30 years MIS/IT experience, basically 10 years database, 10 years C application development, and 10 years of "devops". My infosec work is limited to helping the Sysadmin staff investigate a few breaches, running auditing tools and parsing the output logs. I don't have a background in infosec, so some kind of certs would be a good idea, or at least I would want to make sure I knew the material covered by the certs. I have been teaching myself whatever I need to know for so long, a cert is basically a curriculum to me.

bhoops

adrenaline19 wrote: »

The industry is currently built on certs. Pick a path that interests you and start obtaining the relevant certs.

Don't get down on yourself. Two years is enough time to prepare for your next move. Start working now! We're all here to help you.

The fear I have is, say I get a few certs, and then it is time to look for a new job - and all the jobs require a college degree. I have thought maybe I could get some certs, and simultaneously try to create a "infosec brand" of myself by creating a blog and posting free code to github. For example, I might write some scripts in Ruby or Python that helps with some infosec tool, and put it in the Public Domain. Basically, try to interact with the infosec community as I develop the skills.

Welly_59

Is the USA industry really that stuck up on degrees? In the UK they usually state bachelors degree or equivalent work experience.

Many 40/50 year olds wouldn't have had the opportunity to gain a degree when they were younger, and asking them to prove themselves after all the years experience is just stupid

adrenaline19

Degrees in the states are really just another things for HR to check off the list. They'll even accept terrible schools like WGU or University of Phoenix as long as it says "degree" somewhere on it.

Actual knowledge is where you'll stand out. If you have that much experience, you should train for the specific path you want. With your programming background, you could get a high paying job pretty easily.

bhoops

Welly_59 wrote: »

Is the USA industry really that stuck up on degrees? In the UK they usually state bachelors degree or equivalent work experience.

Many 40/50 year olds wouldn't have had the opportunity to gain a degree when they were younger, and asking them to prove themselves after all the years experience is just stupid

In the IT industry, there are often exceptions made, but in general, the HR departments insist on a degree. Some infosec consultancies that do government work will require them because the government requires them. I believe this is part of the college loan racket. Unfortunately, a lot of the more interesting infosec jobs seem to be from the government.

bhoops

adrenaline19 wrote: »

Degrees in the states are really just another things for HR to check off the list. They'll even accept terrible schools like WGU or University of Phoenix as long as it says "degree" somewhere on it.

Actual knowledge is where you'll stand out. If you have that much experience, you should train for the specific path you want. With your programming background, you could get a high paying job pretty easily.

When you say "specific path", do you mean a specific job type, or cert path?

adrenaline19

your preferred career path dictates which certs you should pursue.

Don't pursue an OSCP if you want to work the help desk.

IT is a very broad industry. Figure out exactly what you want, and find the most relevant certs for that path.

TheFORCE

bhoops wrote: »

I have 30 years MIS/IT experience, basically 10 years database, 10 years C application development, and 10 years of "devops". My infosec work is limited to helping the Sysadmin staff investigate a few breaches, running auditing tools and parsing the output logs. I don't have a background in infosec, so some kind of certs would be a good idea, or at least I would want to make sure I knew the material covered by the certs. I have been teaching myself whatever I need to know for so long, a cert is basically a curriculum to me.

Really man? And you are stressing? You will be fine. With that kind of experience you can find a job tomorrow. You do not need certs. You know how to code and develop.

But why wait for your current company go out of business to move on? Why not do it now while having a job?

Again if you are already coding for so many years, know all those lanauages what could a cert do for you? Probably not a lot.

duta74

Now is two big trend in IT: Cloud/Bigdata and Cybersecurity.
Based on your experience the first one is best fit to you. Try AWS/Azure cert path.

Good luck...

Danielm7

You lost me at 10 years of DevOps and concern over finding a job. Why even bother trying to branch into infosec at this point if it's all new to you. You can pickup some linux/cloud/automation certs but I'd think if you have an updated LinkedIn profile with DevOps on it that recruiters would be beating down your door.

jdancer

Also, the best time to get a job is when you have a job. Take a look at this article for being relevant Tips for Staying Employed as an Older Developer - Dice Insights

dhay13

TheFORCE wrote: »

Really man? And you are stressing? You will be fine. With that kind of experience you can find a job tomorrow. You do not need certs. You know how to code and develop.

But why wait for your current company go out of business to move on? Why not do it now while having a job?

Again if you are already coding for so many years, know all those lanauages what could a cert do for you? Probably not a lot.

Have to agree here. With this experience I don't see a problem getting a job. Degrees are helpful but experience trumps all. Sure there will be some companies that won't bend but I think most just post a wish list but take the best qualified candidate. In my opinion certs aren't even necessary for you but probably would help you jump over a few similarly qualified candidates.

EagerDinosaur

bhoops wrote: »

I have been teaching myself whatever I need to know for so long, a cert is basically a curriculum to me.

That's pretty what I use certs for - a structured list of things for my middle-aged brain to learn, and an exam to make sure I learn it, so that I can keep my skills up to date.

You might want to take an entry-level exam in whichever database you use most, just to make sure your knowledge is current.
You don't list any web technology experience, so maybe that's something to look at. Microsoft exam 70-480 would provide experience in that area, but I found it quite challenging.

anhtran35

You are a PROGRAMMER. You don't need much of a degree other than maybe an associate. They are in high demand and shortage. Tighten up your resume and send it out. If you want a degree to pad your resume I suggest WGU.

DatabaseHead

Just my opinion....

With your front end, back end and system experience you would best served (if you wanted too) to get into architecture. You could potentially receive some age discrimination, however....... Architect roles are about as age discrimination proof as you can get in IT.

Time to share all those lessons learned into a large or mid size enterprise.

Since you do have a DevOps background AWS or Azure might be a consideration. But swinging back to architecture, I would take a deep look at

https://www-01.ibm.com/software/solutions/soa/ (IBM SOA)

OR

TOGAF®, an Open Group standard | The Open Group


Depending on the environment both of these can be EXTREMELY helpful when applying for architect roles. Data, Systems, Solutions etc....... (Some more than others).

If you wanted to as well, could look into project management certifications, such as Scrum Master, Scrum Product Owner or the traditional PMP.

With your programming skills you could always land in a BI/IT shop building ETL's or front end tools.

You have a lot of options, future is bright.....

Ertaz

bhoops wrote: »

50 yr old JOAT with no certs or degrees. My current employer will probably be out of business within 2 years, so I need to take action now.

Bro, I was in a similar spot 2 years ago. I was in the paper industry. I had let all my certs lapse because I really wasn't using them and life outside work was happening at a furious pace. Like you I saw the writing on the wall and started looking for a job. ( That location closed 4 months after I left.) I got an interview at a local tech company in infosec and got very lucky. They said that my job was contingent on me getting the CISSP within a year. I did SEC+ first, then went into CISSP. I have since done CASP, CSA+, GPEN, and CCNA Cyber Ops. I'm in a much better place now, but I'm constantly looking to hedge against a a similar situation.


If I were you, I'd certify in what you want to do before you run out of landing strip. It sounds like you have the skills to pay the bills, you just need a cert to formalize your status.

scada

bhoops wrote: »

50 yr old JOAT with no certs or degrees. My current employer will probably be out of business within 2 years, so I need to take action now.

At least you know you need to take action now . You also see the value that certs bring and can start working on them. Just get started ...

Ertaz

Even this guy has a job in the current Economy:

https://youtu.be/uWd6XgBVIcg

I'd say your prospects are good.

thomas_

I'm not a coder or programmer, but I have heard that if you are one having a link to your github account is a good way to get your resume noticed.

TechGromit

bhoops wrote: »

The fear I have is, say I get a few certs, and then it is time to look for a new job - and all the jobs require a college degree.

Don't get hung up on job posting college degree requirements, 9 times out of 10, experience trumps a college degree. Yes there are a few companies that say no degree, no interview, but the vast majority of them will take industry experience as a substitute for a college degree.

Cisco Inferno

TechGromit wrote: »

Don't get hung up on job posting college degree requirements, 9 times out of 10, experience trumps a college degree. Yes there are a few companies that say no degree, no interview, but the vast majority of them will take industry experience as a substitute for a college degree.

yeah most gov't jobs and universities are really the only ones who are strict with education.
Everyone else cares about exp and certs. a degree does usually help but most of the time, other factors are much more important

TechGromit

Cisco Inferno wrote: »

yeah most gov't jobs and universities are really the only ones who are strict with education.
Everyone else cares about exp and certs. a degree does usually help but most of the time, other factors are much more important

I'm going to disagree, I personally know someone who was hired for a GS-12 Federal government position, with nothing more than a high school diploma and no certifications, and was later promoted to a GS-13, with just an associates degree. The rules can be bend, it just depends on who you know and how much they want you. The person in question was a federal contractor for several years and proved even without a degree, he was really good at what he did. Universities I believe, I applied for several jobs at colleges and never hear a peep back, it's definitely the good old boys club at a university.

shimasensei

With your decades of experience, you should be able to obtain certs to back up your skills with no issues. I suggest also going for a degree (start with an associate's then eventually a BSc) as a long term goal. Don't give up and best of luck!

yoba222

jdancer wrote: »

Also, the best time to get a job is when you have a job. . .

This right here. Start applying now.

scaredoftests

Send out your resume now, see if you get nibbles.

mbarrett

bhoops wrote: »

The fear I have is, say I get a few certs, and then it is time to look for a new job - and all the jobs require a college degree.

In IT, college degree will help get foot in the door with HR - it is not a showstopper if you do not have one. Just stay focused in your search, and be persistent. I went to college in the late 80's, and the mindset I had was that to get into IT you had to have a degree. My experience in the job market showed that that isn't always the case. Additionally, there were people with very good IT skills who had degrees in the liberal arts and other things completely unrelated to the job they were doing.