To those of you with employers that pay for your training/schooling/certification....

Squished

Pseudonym wrote: »

No, we're all confined to basements and are only allowed out at night.

Mom's basement, right?

matt333

I guess I have always been lucky, all my employers just paid for my training without any contract to stay. I'd always go for the cert, it will pay for itself in the long run.

SteveLavoie

Now, after all those year without training, it serve no purpose to bash on you. You had your reason to not get traininng, and it is fine. It is more a matter of what will you do now

Well, it look like the same talk my doctor told me about my weight...

Squished

SteveLavoie wrote: »

Now, after all those year without training, it serve no purpose to bash on you. You had your reason to not get traininng, and it is fine. It is more a matter of what will you do now

Well, it look like the same talk my doctor told me about my weight...

Oh I'll take the bashing. I know I made a mistake. Now to place catch up.

SteveLavoie

Well, I was trying to save from you from all the villagers with their torch and pitchfork.

yoba222

I remember being an unemployed college student with a mortgage and using a credit card for the first few CompTIA certs & textbooks to get an edge and get my foot in the door.

I remember taking on debt at one of my first IT jobs that had a good title but terrible pay. I paid for another cert out of pocket that year.

I'm very grateful now that I can pick and choose an employer and don't have to settle for a cheap one with no training budget. I had to suffer a bit to get there though.

ThePawofRizzo

SteveLavoie wrote: »

Well, I was trying to save from you from all the villagers with their torch and pitchfork.

I guess I should clarify my point as I wasn't "bashing" so much as making an observation about those I've worked with that have benefits, but never see the benefit in using them In my case the employer will pay, but most of our IT staff don't take advantage of that huge benefit to enhance their careers. So, if one has the benefits, and aren't using them, it often is simply due to laziness from what I've seen. Sure, there may be the one or two exceptions that have some extenuating circumstance that keeps them from studying a bit to get a cert or two a year, but mostly they are just lazy, because they don't have to worry about having the cash for books and tests.

I certainly understand not having the ready cash, especially with a family. Like Yoba222, however, I paid for some basic certs (MCP, MCSE, CompTIA) that I could self-study with used books, and invested in my own career on my credit card, and they did open up doors after a couple years and pay for themselves.

Squished

SteveLavoie wrote: »

Well, I was trying to save from you from all the villagers with their torch and pitchfork.

I don't mind, I screwed up. No denying that. Fortunately I'm early enough in my career and age to fix the problem. It only took me 8 years to realize it.

Squished

ThePawofRizzo wrote: »

I guess I should clarify my point as I wasn't "bashing" so much as making an observation about those I've worked with that have benefits, but never see the benefit in using them In my case the employer will pay, but most of our IT staff don't take advantage of that huge benefit to enhance their careers. So, if one has the benefits, and aren't using them, it often is simply due to laziness from what I've seen. Sure, there may be the one or two exceptions that have some extenuating circumstance that keeps them from studying a bit to get a cert or two a year, but mostly they are just lazy, because they don't have to worry about having the cash for books and tests.

I certainly understand not having the ready cash, especially with a family. Like Yoba222, however, I paid for some basic certs (MCP, MCSE, CompTIA) that I could self-study with used books, and invested in my own career on my credit card, and they did open up doors after a couple years and pay for themselves.

that was exactly the point of my post. The ones that have it available and don't use it are simply nuts in my book, except for the 1-2 rare circumstances you simply can't.

I'm using the 2k from my employer and I'm adding another 2k on my end and seeing where I can go. I'll have [hopefully] A+, Network+, Security+, Project+ and Cloud+ done for about $2k, and then the remainder I'm thinking about doing CySA+ and/or CAPM. When the fiscal year rolls in September and/or I land myself a new job my plan of attack is certainly going to change. I just discovered (again through this group) wgu.edu and while I was enrolled at a local school to start my master's this fall, I'm really reconsidering it seeing the programs at wgu.edu. Since I work at a school right now (kinda), our Dean is looking at wgu.edu for me and letting me know their academic opinion on the value of it.

ThePawofRizzo

Another consideration that I've used to save money....at least for the more popular exams....I have a couple large bookstores near me. So if I were studying say for an MCP or Network+ where the bookstore usually has some study books on the shelf, I am not above going to the bookstore and reading the practice tests from the books to at least get some additional practice without buying more books just for practice exams. Usually I read two books to prep, then just take every practice test I can find to validate I'm learning. The negative is that this generally only works for those exams for which the bookstore may sell enough books to consider keeping some on the shelf.

UnixGuy

Nothing is lost, all you need is a good job opportunity and knock out few higher level certs. Don't dwell on the past, but thanks for the reminder not to slack

PsychoFin

Wow. I just signed up for ACM with the link that NetworkNerd provided and I indeed got access to Safari Booka Online. Holy bananas what a crazy crazy deal for 75$. Absolutely insane. And they have some other nice benefits too.

jdancer

NetworkNewb wrote: »

Membership to ACM: https://www.acm.org/

$99 a year and get full access to SafariBooksOnline and SkillSoft. Insane deal!

Update: 25% off that $99 atm too... https://campus2.acm.org/public/qj/keep_inventing/qjprofm_control.cfm?promo=DA4SCA

Just used that link to sign up myself. Was paying $40 a month just for SafariBooksOnline before this!

Thanks for the discount link.

Just signed up.

Good deal!

iBrokeIT

I'm going to give some tough love and this is purely constructive criticism and insight...

You have worked at the SAME low wage non profit job for 8 years. Why did you not send out your resume after gaining 2-3 years of experience and then again in another 2-3 years? (Imagine where you would be if you did just that.) I'll tell you why you didn't, it is because you grew comfortable and complacent with your situation which is the SAME reason why people don't take advantage of their employer's training and education benefits. Really hard not to view your post as a bit hypocritical when you understand that's why and the people you really need to reach with this post aren't on this forum right now just like you weren't the last 8 years.

The great news is that you already have an IT job with experience to put on a resume, have a couple of certs, a training budget, and recognize you need to do something about your situation. My advice would be to not blow that entire $2k on a bunch of entry level certifications like CompTIA because that is not going to advance your salary that much. Yes, pick up 1-2 more CompTIA certs then move on something more advanced and actually challenge yourself! You also need to start looking at actual job descriptions and be thinking about what your next two moves will be in order to ensure your current professional development aligns with you career goals.

Best of luck!

Squished

iBrokeIT wrote: »

I'm going to give some tough love and this is purely constructive criticism and insight...

You have worked at the SAME low wage non profit job for 8 years. Why did you not send out your resume after gaining 2-3 years of experience and then again in another 2-3 years? (Imagine where you would be if you did just that.) I'll tell you why you didn't, it is because you grew comfortable and complacent with your situation which is the SAME reason why people don't take advantage of their employer's training and education benefits. Really hard not to view your post as a bit hypocritical when you understand that's why and the people you really need to reach with this post aren't on this forum right now just like you weren't the last 8 years.

The great news is that you already have an IT job with experience to put on a resume, have a couple of certs, a training budget, and recognize you need to do something about your situation. My advice would be to not blow that entire $2k on a bunch of entry level certifications like CompTIA because that is not going to advance your salary that much. Yes, pick up 1-2 more CompTIA certs then move on something more advanced and actually challenge yourself! You also need to start looking at actual job descriptions and be thinking about what your next two moves will be in order to ensure your current professional development aligns with you career goals.

Best of luck!

It's funny you say it like that with certainty because that's not the whole story at all. First of all, I've acknowledged more than once in post my mistakes about not continuing training and certifications and I've got a long road ahead to fix that. I'm working on it. That's why I'm here. I'll bang out these entry level certs to baseline myself and see where I still and then go after the more advanced stuff. However, in the last 8 years I've learned so many invaluable experiences in management, leadership, international business, and more that I would say those experiences alone were worth the price of admission. I've been paid for 8 years to travel to every continent doing various types of IT systems, vendor management, project work, and more. As a result of the locations I've been to, I've experienced the Temples of Angkor Wat in Cambodia, safaried in Ngoro Ngoro and Serengeti National Park in Tanzania, Great Barrier Reef of Australia, and the waters of the Turks & Caicos too many times to count because that's where we work. Yes, I was paid to work while traveling and seeing these places. I've built a vast international network as a result.

So yes, while I was taking advantage of this aspect of my job I did become a bit complacent on the technical side of things with training and certifications, but I certainly wouldn't call myself lost and I think timing wise, now is the right to move on. With my son being born last July, a lifestyle change now dictates my future and it's significantly harder for me to disappear for 3 weeks and leave my little one at home with my life. That's just not fair to her. There's no denying my job is extremely low wage for the level of work, I'm 50% below the lowest for my job when I look up similar jobs on Glassdoor. However, it was enough for us to get by for a long time. Now with the baby, not anymore.

There's a lot to every story, this is part of mine.

johndoee

Squished wrote: »

It's funny you say it like that with certainty because that's not the whole story at all. First of all, I've acknowledged more than once in post my mistakes about not continuing training and certifications and I've got a long road ahead to fix that. I'm working on it. That's why I'm here. I'll bang out these entry level certs to baseline myself and see where I still and then go after the more advanced stuff. However, in the last 8 years I've learned so many invaluable experiences in management, leadership, international business, and more that I would say those experiences alone were worth the price of admission. I've been paid for 8 years to travel to every continent doing various types of IT systems, vendor management, project work, and more. As a result of the locations I've been to, I've experienced the Temples of Angkor Wat in Cambodia, safaried in Ngoro Ngoro and Serengeti National Park in Tanzania, Great Barrier Reef of Australia, and the waters of the Turks & Caicos too many times to count because that's where we work. Yes, I was paid to work while traveling and seeing these places. I've built a vast international network as a result.

So yes, while I was taking advantage of this aspect of my job I did become a bit complacent on the technical side of things with training and certifications, but I certainly wouldn't call myself lost and I think timing wise, now is the right to move on. With my son being born last July, a lifestyle change now dictates my future and it's significantly harder for me to disappear for 3 weeks and leave my little one at home with my life. That's just not fair to her. There's no denying my job is extremely low wage for the level of work, I'm 50% below the lowest for my job when I look up similar jobs on Glassdoor. However, it was enough for us to get by for a long time. Now with the baby, not anymore.

There's a lot to every story, this is part of mine.

People go to Glassdoor like it's the HR Manager with a verified profile because you see a blue check mark by the name. Shaking My Head

Glassdoor said hey John Doee, pay me or write a review. You know what I did?










Of course I didn't pay them. I wrote a review. Took me all of 2 minutes to write something to get the free membership out the way. I just put some stuff in the required boxes and clicked next, next, and next. Was the information correct, you ask? I can neither confirm or deny that. But, what I will say is that I wouldn't believe everything I read online.

Squished

johndoee wrote: »

People go to Glassdoor like it's the HR Manager with a verified profile because you see a blue check mark by the name. Shaking My Head

Glassdoor said hey John Doee, pay me or write a review. You know what I did?










Of course I didn't pay them. I wrote a review. Took me all of 2 minutes to write something to get the free membership out the way. I just put some stuff in the required boxes and clicked next, next, and next. Was the information correct, you ask? I can neither confirm or deny that. But, what I will say is that I wouldn't believe everything I read online.

I'm just using Glassdoor as a point of "official" reference. If I shared my salary you'd probably say 100% underpaid for what I do. hah!

Iristheangel

N7Valiant wrote: »

If you can fit training anywhere into your 60+ hour weekly work activities, then by all means.

I fit a CCIE into my 60+ hour weekly work activities. Depends how badly you want it

Iristheangel

Pseudonym wrote: »

Lab training expensive?

Microsoft server ISOs are free. Packet tracer is free. I'm sure there are many more examples.

I'm not buying this. I've never had work pay for my certs. I pay for everything, and I do it on a budget. But guess what? I still do it.

Guess you've never checked the costs of labbing for the CCIE Data Center or Security. Also, you still need a beefy enough platform to run those VMS and that's not cheap if you want any labs that scale

Ertaz

Iristheangel wrote: »

Guess you've never checked the costs of labbing for the CCIE Data Center or Security. Also, you still need a beefy enough platform to run those VMS and that's not cheap if you want any labs that scale

I think he meant entry level labs...

If you're doing the CCIE level labs as your first cert, like the OP is going for, then that's probably a little too enterprising...

Iristheangel

Ertaz wrote: »

I think he meant entry level labs...

If you're doing the CCIE level labs as your first cert, like the OP is going for, then that's probably a little too enterprising...

He didn't specify. I have plenty of folks in my study group going for CCIE directly after X amount of years in the field and with no other certs. Even stepping away from Cisco certs, virtualization, systems, pen testing, etc usually requires some sort of resources (a server, big computer, etc) which it might not be as easy for someone starting out. When I got my first IT gig, I had a second full time securitu guard gig to get money for my educational expenses. That may have worked for someone who's single and younger but not if you're married, have a kid, etc

Squished

Iristheangel wrote: »

He didn't specify. I have plenty of folks in my study group going for CCIE directly after X amount of years in the field and with no other certs. Even stepping away from Cisco certs, virtualization, systems, pen testing, etc usually requires some sort of resources (a server, big computer, etc) which it might not be as easy for someone starting out. When I got my first IT gig, I had a second full time securitu guard gig to get money for my educational expenses. That may have worked for someone who's single and younger but not if you're married, have a kid, etc

Everything changes when you have a kid. Wow, did I learn that one fast. The first month that $1,300 a month in day care kicks in, ouch.

E Double U

Squished wrote: »

The first month that $1,300 a month in day care kicks in, ouch.

I remember! So glad to be out of that phase.

JollyFrogs

CIO: What if we train them and they leave? CEO: What if we don't train them and they stay?

Ertaz

Iristheangel wrote: »

He didn't specify. I have plenty of folks in my study group going for CCIE directly after X amount of years in the field and with no other certs. Even stepping away from Cisco certs, virtualization, systems, pen testing, etc usually requires some sort of resources (a server, big computer, etc) which it might not be as easy for someone starting out. When I got my first IT gig, I had a second full time securitu guard gig to get money for my educational expenses. That may have worked for someone who's single and younger but not if you're married, have a kid, etc

Nope, he didn't. I just understood it to be in the context of the OP's situation. I didn't assume the CCIE was on the OP's radar. But hey, I've been wrong before, and there are 7 more hours in the day for me to be wrong again...

And I completely agree with you on the resources required for advanced certs, since I have a beefy home lab box myself. (16c/32t, 128Gb Ram)

I just can't seem to make myself pull the trigger on 4 of these :

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B01LB05YOO/ref=smi_www_rco2_go_smi_3499214142?_encoding=UTF8&ascsubtag=424619fe1e2a11e8bbd5a644d253a3840INT&ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A1GV4DXS40X1A5&tag=slicinc-20

SteveLavoie

Squished wrote: »

Everything changes when you have a kid. Wow, did I learn that one fast. The first month that $1,300 a month in day care kicks in, ouch.

Sure I pay more income tax in Quebec, Canada, but I was real happy to pay day care at 7$ CAD/day (about 5$ USD).

Squished

E Double U wrote: »

I remember! So glad to be out of that phase.

it's brutal. He's worth it but damn my wallet is light!

Squished

In other news, I signed up for a Master's program at wgu.edu today. Signed up for IT Management, but could switch it to cybersecurity, we'll see. Withdraw my MBA enrollment at the local university. Pretty excited about that, start May 1st. Gives me 2 months to finish Security+ and Network+.