I'm in a Bind 5 years help desk exp but I've been told I don't have enough exp and A+ won't help?

johnIT

I applied to over 200 job openings. Heard back from about 30 of them. Got 10 interviews. All said I lacked experience and my dream company told me i haven't furthered my education enough. I was trying to get into implementation and/or consulting but I'm also interested in security/IT Auditing. Do certs help get you in the door in those industries even if you have no experience whatsoever? Some of the other feedback I have received from another forum was: 

1. These jobs are too advanced for your skill level/You don't have any marketable skills in IT.

2. A+ cert won't help you b/c you stayed in help desk too long. How was I supposed to know this? So how do I get certified in something I have no exp in and didn't even know existed up until a few minutes ago?

3. You have one year exp that stretched into 5 years. Leave. Uh, I need a job... 

4. Why don't you self-study? B/c I don't know wtf to self-study and I haven't been introduced to anything new in the industry in about 3 years. Everything is now cloud/subscription based which the charity i work for cannot afford and don't want to invest in their technology. It's been a real hindrance in my professional development b/c I'll admit I'm lazy when it comes to self-study and do much better in classroom/e-learning environment and those things are expensive. 

5. Why don't you get a cert? I attempted the MCSA one time last year and the material that I studied didn't match the material on the test whatsoever and it went way over my head. This appears to be a sign that I'm not cut out for some of the more technical positions in IT.

6. Get another help desk job at a bigger company. However, I don't really want to be working help desk five years from NOW, hoping that I land somewhere with great professional development, networking opportunities where people will notice me, with benefits and a living salary. (All my cowokers who I trained and left for another position are still doing the same help desk type stuff I am for a little more $$$) None of the level I help desk positions in my area pay much better than the job I have now, and most pay way worse like I'd rather work at McDonald's. They'd probably be way more stressful than the non-profit environment too.

7. Get out and get another job? Well apparently, I'm not even qualified for customer service positions since I haven't heard back from the 50-100 of such jobs I applied to... 

So I take it from that feedback that I need a cert to advance my career even though I've been on help desk for five years (which is ridiculous I think). The problem is I do mostly everything at my non-technical non profit and I have no one to show me what this career track is like. 

My family is full of traditional blue collar people who are business guys or some type of skilled engineers and who lived through times where staying loyal to a company for at least 5 years was the golden ticket. Well, I practically get laughed at for staying here for five years. It seems everything I do in this industry is wrong and I need a correction.

So I'm a little lost on my future direction. All I know is I need to get out of my company, cause of cost of living, wanting to start a family, wanting to advance professionally and mentally, feeling like I'm a useless password resetter etc... So what should I do from this point in order to get a new job in about a month or so? Any advice is appreciated and I hope my analysis doesn't sound as pitiful as I think it does, I'm just really frustrated.

Edit: I also have a BS in information systems. I have attached my resume if it helps.

DatabaseHead

A+ will help out, that's ridiculous.  

Role all your experience on your top listed job into just system admin....   No need to list the break out and your first job.....  

Non-Profit                                                                                                                 June 2014-Present

Systems Admin                                                                                                                                       Newark, NJ

§  Administered Kaspersky Security Center Suite: firewalls, updates, policies and scans

§  Senior engineer mentored younger engineers to help support a staff of 500

§  Collaborated with IT Manager to help administer: active directory, Microsoft Exchange Server, Files Sharing

§  Migrated 13 Windows servers (2003/2008) to Windows server 2016/ Windows 7 to Windows 10

§  Collaborated with HR and Legal to support employee records and keep up with account deletion/creation

§  Collaborated with finance department to set up ATX Payroll and tax prep software

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXComputer TechnicianXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX                                                                                                                  

§  Helped implement EHR software rollout for doctors, clinicians and other staff

§  Installed, monitored, diagnosed, repaired, maintained and upgraded all hardware/software as requested including: printers, monitors, wireless routers, and third-party software

§  In charge of imaging, migrating, installation and upgrading all desktops, laptops, and tablets for 500 users

§  Documented inventory, network maps, policy changes, and tutorials for department reference

*** Five years as a SA looks really GOOD.  Don't get how that looks "bad".

johnIT

DatabaseHead said:

A+ will help out, that's ridiculous.  

Role all your experience on your top listed job into just system admin....   No need to list the break out and your first job.....  

Non-Profit                                                                                                                 June 2014-Present

Systems Admin                                                                                                                                       Newark, NJ

§  Administered Kaspersky Security Center Suite: firewalls, updates, policies and scans

§  Senior engineer mentored younger engineers to help support a staff of 500

§  Collaborated with IT Manager to help administer: active directory, Microsoft Exchange Server, Files Sharing

§  Migrated 13 Windows servers (2003/2008) to Windows server 2016/ Windows 7 to Windows 10

§  Collaborated with HR and Legal to support employee records and keep up with account deletion/creation

§  Collaborated with finance department to set up ATX Payroll and tax prep software

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXComputer TechnicianXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX                                                                                                                  

§  Helped implement EHR software rollout for doctors, clinicians and other staff

§  Installed, monitored, diagnosed, repaired, maintained and upgraded all hardware/software as requested including: printers, monitors, wireless routers, and third-party software

§  In charge of imaging, migrating, installation and upgrading all desktops, laptops, and tablets for 500 users

§  Documented inventory, network maps, policy changes, and tutorials for department reference

Thanks for the suggestion, but I have attempted to list myself as a systems administrator before, and it went nowhere. Everywhere I applied seemed to use technology that I had never heard of before... 

NetworkingStudent

Are you currently a System Administer  I ask because you said you’re in a help desk role.

your resume says system administer

Jon_Cisco

It seems like you need to take a moment to figure out what it is you want to do. Honestly from what you posted there is nothing I can say that is going to change your position in the next month. Realistically if your not getting higher level jobs and your not learning in your current job then you probably should move to another help desk position.

As for the self study it's not always easy but that's part of what makes it valuable. You need to put in the effort if you want to receive the rewards. In the end your employed and have ambition. With those two things you should be able to start working on a plan that fits your needs.

Good Luck!

mikey88

johnIT said:

I applied to over 200 job openings. Heard back from about 30 of them. Got 10 interviews. All said I lacked experience and my dream company told me i haven't furthered my education enough. 

I don't believe a company would extend you an interview if they were not even slightly interested. You just have to sell yourself once you do get that interview landed. Just keep grinding and trying man. 15% response rate on your applications is not bad.

Since you already have some web dev experience, look into picking up some aws, virtualization, devops skills while you job hunt.

mslab

I would consider dropping the "skills" section.  I often skip over this section entirely when reviewing a resume because it doesn't tell me anything useful.

johnIT

NetworkingStudent said:

Are you currently a System Administer  I ask because you said you’re in a help desk role.

your resume says system administer

I have done some projects that fall under the realm of sys admin but they don't appear close to anything currently on the market. 

johnIT

mikey88 said:

johnIT said:

I applied to over 200 job openings. Heard back from about 30 of them. Got 10 interviews. All said I lacked experience and my dream company told me i haven't furthered my education enough. 

I don't believe a company would extend you an interview if they were not even slightly interested. You just have to sell yourself once you do get that interview landed. Just keep grinding and trying man. 15% response rate on your applications is not bad.

Since you already have some web dev experience, look into picking up some aws, virtualization, devops skills while you job hunt.

There's a new AWS cert at my local community college I might do. The problem with that is, we don't use AWS at work. So once I take the class, if I don't get a job in it right away, Is that all I'm missing just one cert? Will I lose the knowledge pretty quickly despite being certified in it if I don't get a job right away? I don't know if that will yield to any AWS specific jobs or jobs in general. I sure do hope it will.  

Jon_Cisco

Try not to focus to much on the specifics of what the single cert will do. Pick a cert that leads in the direction you want to go and just start picking up knowledge.

I did A+ in 2002. The exam didn't even cover Windows XP yet. I still learned a lot more about computers then I knew before that. Non of the specifics matter anymore but I can open up a computer and figure out what pretty much everything is.

I did CCNA in 2013. I regret that I didn't keep it current so I decided to renew it again this year. I need to relearn all of the specifics but I already understand the concepts so it should not be nearly as much work this time.

So long story short when you study you are building a base on knowledge that makes additional learning easier. That base of knowledge increases your chances of being successful when faced with a new challenge at work.

Good Luck!

McxRisley

So i'm gona point out what no one else has yet, you need to take a step back and rethink your attitude towards the whole situation. I understand that it is frustrating and was in the exact same spot as you after college, just not with 5 years exp. I had no experience, no certs and couldnt get a job. I took an 8 month unpaid internship and developed some skills that finally landed me my first job, I still had no certs. I learned very quickly that to go any further I would have to start investing in myself. I'm not a fan of self study either but there comes a point when it is absolutely necessary to advance your skills and your career. Take a look at the vast amount of areas in IT and try to find one that interests you. If you cant find an area that intersts you or can't change your attitude then maybe IT isn't the field for you. Constant studying and learning new things is a requirement to stay afloat in IT.

PCTechLinc

The biggest thing is not to give up.  I've been working with computers since the 80's and got my A+ before I got my driver's license.  Had 3 Associate's Degrees in IT before 22.  Had to work at RadioShack and Best Buy for a total of 7 years before anyone even gave me a chance to work as a Jr. Systems Administrator.  Even now I feel like I have to prove myself when I apply for a job, and I have 2 Master's, quite a few certs, and plenty of years of experience.  I constantly hear "well you don't have enough experience in THIS or THAT..."  :-|

Just don't give up.  I'm now in a job that I love, and they trust me to make the right decisions, and would hate to see me leave.  You can get there too, but through ALL the "no thanks" that you get, the "yes we'll give you a shot" will come to you probably when you least expect it.  Sucks, but that's the nature of the job market.

Infosec_Sam

I agree with what @McxRisley said: certifications are an investment in your professional career - they're 100% worth the time and money they cost! Since you already have an A+, maybe the logical next step would be to start working towards the Network+ and then the Security+. That would give you a well-rounded base of knowledge that you could use to hold your own in interviews.

I think it's also important to remember that you're not expected to know everything about every software a different company uses. No one with 5 years of experience can do that. Your job would be to be willing and able to learn new systems quickly. For instance, maybe McAfee looks a little different than Kaspersky, but an AV is an AV. The same thing would apply to Cisco vs. Fortinet vs. Palo Alto networking and firewalls. They may have different interfaces, but if you know the fundamentals of networking, you'll be fine.

In terms of what you can do now, maybe look into the Net+ and Sec+ certs from CompTIA, or if you're looking for a more in-depth networking cert, the CCNA is a great first step. I've heard directly from IT recruiters that the CCNA cert alone is enough to land an interview.

I hope you find this helpful! If you have any questions - please let me know!

johnIT

PCTechLinc said:

The biggest thing is not to give up.  I've been working with computers since the 80's and got my A+ before I got my driver's license.  Had 3 Associate's Degrees in IT before 22.  Had to work at RadioShack and Best Buy for a total of 7 years before anyone even gave me a chance to work as a Jr. Systems Administrator.  Even now I feel like I have to prove myself when I apply for a job, and I have 2 Master's, quite a few certs, and plenty of years of experience.  I constantly hear "well you don't have enough experience in THIS or THAT..."  :-|

Just don't give up.  I'm now in a job that I love, and they trust me to make the right decisions, and would hate to see me leave.  You can get there too, but through ALL the "no thanks" that you get, the "yes we'll give you a shot" will come to you probably when you least expect it.  Sucks, but that's the nature of the job market.

You managed to make that post both helpful and discouraging. So...thanks? /s. I've heard the you don't have enough experience in THIS or THAT line as well... 

PCTechLinc

Sorry, it was just meant to be realistic.  Those are my personal experiences.  I've had to take the good and the bad as well.

johnIT

McxRisley said:

So i'm gona point out what no one else has yet, you need to take a step back and rethink your attitude towards the whole situation. I understand that it is frustrating and was in the exact same spot as you after college, just not with 5 years exp. I had no experience, no certs and couldnt get a job. I took an 8 month unpaid internship and developed some skills that finally landed me my first job, I still had no certs. I learned very quickly that to go any further I would have to start investing in myself. I'm not a fan of self study either but there comes a point when it is absolutely necessary to advance your skills and your career. Take a look at the vast amount of areas in IT and try to find one that interests you. If you cant find an area that intersts you or can't change your attitude then maybe IT isn't the field for you. Constant studying and learning new things is a requirement to stay afloat in IT.

I am beginning to understand that. 

johnIT

Infosec_Sam said:

I agree with what @McxRisley said: certifications are an investment in your professional career - they're 100% worth the time and money they cost! Since you already have an A+, maybe the logical next step would be to start working towards the Network+ and then the Security+. That would give you a well-rounded base of knowledge that you could use to hold your own in interviews.

I think it's also important to remember that you're not expected to know everything about every software a different company uses. No one with 5 years of experience can do that. Your job would be to be willing and able to learn new systems quickly. For instance, maybe McAfee looks a little different than Kaspersky, but an AV is an AV. The same thing would apply to Cisco vs. Fortinet vs. Palo Alto networking and firewalls. They may have different interfaces, but if you know the fundamentals of networking, you'll be fine.

In terms of what you can do now, maybe look into the Net+ and Sec+ certs from CompTIA, or if you're looking for a more in-depth networking cert, the CCNA is a great first step. I've heard directly from IT recruiters that the CCNA cert alone is enough to land an interview.

I hope you find this helpful! If you have any questions - please let me know!

I actually am self-taught in Kaspersky. Our agency had it, but never utilized it to the point where they were manually going out and scanning for viruses on people's computers...It's way more powerful than that, but every time I told prospective employees that I taught myself this, they didn't seem to care all that much.. It's one of the major things I've done that I'm proud of. I just created a cert track and sec+ is on there b/c I'm interesting in IT Auditing and security. 

Infosec_Sam

johnIT said:
I actually am self-taught in Kaspersky. Our agency had it, but never utilized it to the point where they were manually going out and scanning for viruses on people's computers...It's way more powerful than that, but every time I told prospective employees that I taught myself this, they didn't seem to care all that much.. It's one of the major things I've done that I'm proud of. I just created a cert track and sec+ is on there b/c I'm interesting in IT Auditing and security. 

Care to share what else is on your cert track?

johnIT

Entry level first 3 months:

• G-Suite- Never touched but always mentioned on job apps
• A+- seems very popular
• Security+/Network+- More networking exp for myself
• Microsoft Technology Associate/ITIL-foundation knowledge for myself

six months:

• Red Hat Certified Systems Administrator- some exp w/Ubuntu and home labs
• OKTA- Never touched but have seen on lots of job openings
• JIRA Administrator never touched but have seen on lots of job openings

I'm very interested in security and IT Auditing so once I get the admin and general IT Certs I might go for the following:
6-12 months (each):

• CISSP
• GRCP
• Salesforce

EANx

In your resume, I think you need to lead with your strengths first and what your strengths are will depend on the job you're applying for. But in all cases, I'd be surprised if Kaspersky Security Center is the number one thing companies are interested in, especially given the security concerns.

Your bullets are all over the place and do you no favors. Give a paragraph about what you do, for instance: "Day-to-day administration of Active Directory, MS Exchange, account creation/deletion and file share permissions, including migrating 13 servers from Server 2003/2008 to Server 2016. Supervised enterprise migration of Windows 7 to Windows 10."

Move skills below your experience.

dinger68

If you are interested in Security and auditing then I would look hard at doing CISA.  Could very well get you in the door for an auditing job.

johnIT

dinger68 said:

If you are interested in Security and auditing then I would look hard at doing CISA.  Could very well get you in the door for an auditing job.

Thanks. Didn't know about that one (see what I mean?). Is it reasonable to obtain it within six months of hard study w/no experience in security?  

SteveLavoie

McxRisley said:

So i'm gona point out what no one else has yet, you need to take a step back and rethink your attitude towards the whole situation. I understand that it is frustrating and was in the exact same spot as you after college, just not with 5 years exp. ....... If you cant find an area that intersts you or can't change your attitude then maybe IT isn't the field for you. Constant studying and learning new things is a requirement to stay afloat in IT.

I don't know you, but from what I am reading your attitude toward IT or learning is wrong. This week, we gave a job to a total newbie for very basic helpdesk (he is a young creative designer looking for a more technical job, so he is rather computer savyy) because he was already studying for A+ and we got some good reference. Attitude and self learning are so important for us. What you need to know now is not what you will need in 2-3 years and nobody will send you to class for everything. In addition, I am in Quebec, so most people here are not english-native (we use french, this is explaining my bad grammar), but in addition to be able to self-study, I need to find people who can self-study in another language than their native language.  

johnIT

EANx said:

In your resume, I think you need to lead with your strengths first and what your strengths are will depend on the job you're applying for. But in all cases, I'd be surprised if Kaspersky Security Center is the number one thing companies are interested in, especially given the security concerns.

Your bullets are all over the place and do you no favors. Give a paragraph about what you do, for instance: "Day-to-day administration of Active Directory, MS Exchange, account creation/deletion and file share permissions, including migrating 13 servers from Server 2003/2008 to Server 2016. Supervised enterprise migration of Windows 7 to Windows 10."

Move skills below your experience.

You are right about kaspersky. But I figured it could show my thought process and how I learn new systems. To be honest, I'm not the most technical person, and everyone says that's great b/c HR says tech guys are too socially inept and bad at explaining tech to staff/laypersons, but then I get destroyed by technical questions and the stuff I never worked on before. So I always get hit w/the not enough exp stuff. I freeze up talking to engineers/geek speak but can really explain to users/clients about what's going on tech wise so they don't freak out. I'm pretty fast at looking up and resolving problems. I hate fax machines and anything dealing with running wires. 

cyberguypr

johnIT said:

There's a new AWS cert at my local community college I might do. The problem with that is, we don't use AWS at work. So once I take the class, if I don't get a job in it right away, Is that all I'm missing just one cert? Will I lose the knowledge pretty quickly despite being certified in it if I don't get a job right away? I don't know if that will yield to any AWS specific jobs or jobs in general. I sure do hope it will.  

This is not an excuse and is the wrong mentality. My company is just starting to move workloads to the cloud. Everyone is rushing to get up to speed on cloud. Meanwhile I'm here chilling because I have been running my personal cloud lab environment for a few years so none of this stuff has faded. It's chess man, you gotta plan many moves ahead.

McxRisley

SteveLavoie said:

McxRisley said:

So i'm gona point out what no one else has yet, you need to take a step back and rethink your attitude towards the whole situation. I understand that it is frustrating and was in the exact same spot as you after college, just not with 5 years exp. ....... If you cant find an area that intersts you or can't change your attitude then maybe IT isn't the field for you. Constant studying and learning new things is a requirement to stay afloat in IT.

I don't know you, but from what I am reading your attitude toward IT or learning is wrong. This week, we gave a job to a total newbie for very basic helpdesk (he is a young creative designer looking for a more technical job, so he is rather computer savyy) because he was already studying for A+ and we got some good reference. Attitude and self learning are so important for us. What you need to know now is not what you will need in 2-3 years and nobody will send you to class for everything. In addition, I am in Quebec, so most people here are not english-native (we use french, this is explaining my bad grammar), but in addition to be able to self-study, I need to find people who can self-study in another language than their native language.  

I'm confused here, are talking to me or the OP? Because you basically just affirmed what my previous post says...

Infosec_Sam

@cyberguypr Agreed. I think from a low-cost homelab perspective, the CCNA and MCSE certs are some of the best ones out there. A couple of routers and switches are not going run you that much money, and you can download a free 180-day trial license of Windows Server 2016. I'm not as familiar with the costs of a personal cloud environment, but I wouldn't expect it to totally break the bank. At that point, you'd already have everything you need for any additional networking or sysadmin certs you like.

thomas_

Learn how to do everything you currently do at work with powershell.  That might open some doors up.

mslab

What is your current job title?

ClickClack

johnIT said:

... show my thought process and how I learn new systems. To be honest, I'm not the most technical person, and everyone says that's great b/c HR says tech guys are too socially inept and bad at explaining tech to staff/laypersons, but then I get destroyed by technical questions and the stuff I never worked on before. So I always get hit w/the not enough exp stuff. I freeze up talking to engineers/geek speak but can really explain to users/clients...

How you learn new systems is a good skill an you should be prepared to talk about it in an interview. Focus on the steps you took and the benefit to the company (hours saved, quicker response, etc.)

When I interview applicants for a job on our team, we try to measure how deep their knowledge goes. So getting "Destroyed by technical questions" is not unusual. We don't try to be mean about it. An applicant can answer the question, tell us s/he is making a educated guess (keep it short), or just say they don't know.

 

Freezing up when talking is something you can work on. Call up a former coworker and tell them you want to practice interviewing and you will buy the beer. They try to explain something technical to them (maybe something your are studying for a certification).  Ask them to question you, then tell you how you did.  If you cannot find someone with tech skills, any friend will do and you could even write three to five questions for they will ask you. If no friends are available, you can also use you phone to record yourself answering questions until you are fluid with your answers.  

wiredtitan

thomas_ said:

Learn how to do everything you currently do at work with powershell.  That might open some doors up.

I definitely agree with this. Scripting in the systems/network world is a good use of time while waiting for the next hop.

There have been plenty of engineers I've met that have used powershell as a leverage into their next job. It may not be powershell that's required, but it'll be helpful as a framework for scripting whatever language you need to learn.

As far as security/IT auditing goes, I've only met ones that have a strong technical security background (can script, virtualize, hack, etc.) - which you seem to have some foundation in. So it'll definitely possible to get into this role with a bit more self-education and interviewing well.

Keep going though. It sucks you're frustrated, but you're asking the right questions and receiving the feedback well (from what I'm reading in this thread). Last year I was on a similar spiral. I did at least 30 interviews, which included creating projects, flying out, scripting, etc over many months.

I interviewed.
Learned the IT market needs.
Got rejected.
Studied my knowledge gaps per interview.
Repeated above process.
Stayed patient.
Then started getting significant offers.

The interviews were a better learning process than certs in one way because it gives you direct feedback on what companies are looking for (example: instead of having a CCN*, they'd prefer you know a specific hardware model and main troubleshooting steps). If you prefer classroom/e-learning over self-study, interviewing to learn could be the next closest thing. It's cheaper too.