I'm in a Bind 5 years help desk exp but I've been told I don't have enough exp and A+ won't help?

UrbanBob

^Agreed.
Learn the market. Look up what the jobs require and tailor your resume to reflect this.

FluffyBunny

johnIT said:

Thanks for the suggestion, but I have attempted to list myself as a systems administrator before, and it went nowhere. Everywhere I applied seemed to use technology that I had never heard of before... 

Simple question: have you made lists of all of those technologies "you'd never heard of" and researched them? That right there is a start for your self-study.

For example: potential customer uses lots of things I know, but then mentions they're pretty big on Exadata. On the one hand I made it a point to ask them (show interest!) to tell me a little bit about that. I also made notes to make sure I did more research after coming home, regardless of whether I'd get the job or not. 

Along similar lines: whenever you read something in the tech news that's new to you and strikes your fancy, or whenever you pick up on something at work that sounds cool, make a note. Put it on your "to research" list and make sure that you actually do this. 

I started my personal "to research" list in 2013 and it has never stopped filling since then. I have ticked many boxes and have learnt a huge amount of stuff which I will never use, but I have still broadened my horizon and learned more about what's out there in the tech-world. 

FluffyBunny

johnIT said:

Entry level first 3 months:

• G-Suite- Never touched but always mentioned on job apps
• A+- seems very popular
• Security+/Network+- More networking exp for myself
• Microsoft Technology Associate/ITIL-foundation knowledge for myself

six months:

• Red Hat Certified Systems Administrator- some exp w/Ubuntu and home labs
• OKTA- Never touched but have seen on lots of job openings
• JIRA Administrator never touched but have seen on lots of job openings

I'm very interested in security and IT Auditing so once I get the admin and general IT Certs I might go for the following:
6-12 months (each):

• CISSP
• GRCP
• Salesforce

Perhaps this is one reason why you're not a fan of self-study: you seem to underestimate the amount of work needed. You mentioned trying one pass at MCSA and "the material that you studied didn't match the material on the test whatsoever and it went way over your head.". MCSA is not something you do in a month or two. 

Similarly, the things you list for your first three months could easily take a single year. Or more. Ditto for the RedHat stuff, if you have next to no experience. Yes one can tackle things like these very quickly, but that usually builds on (as others have said) the experience you have built up so far. 

CISSP is another story entirely. You won't actually get the certificate unless you can prove that you have at least five years of experience working in security roles. 

DH44MAG2

The best advice I can give you is never stop learning. If you find that you are just going through the motion’s day after day, find a course, a book, a seminar, whatever and go for it. Sign up for night classes at the local college. Do anything you can to keep learning and expanding your knowledge.

For me, I chose to achieve my ITIL certification - it meshed well with the direction I wanted to take my career. Money was tight and I needed flexibility, so I went with PassionIT Group's eLearning option ($40 for each ITIL Level plus the cost of the exams). On average, it took me about two weeks of focused study (2-3 hours a night after work) for each level. I took courses when my scheduled allowed and was not in a rush to get through it.  After a little over 18 months I achieved the level of ITIL Expert.

Now, I am now pursuing my PRINCE2 certifications and just subscribed to the PRINCE2 Foundation eLearning. When I finish PRINCE2, I plan on moving into Agile. From there, I'm thinking some security courses might play well. That is what's working for me. The point is, keep learning.

Next bit of advice is networking. Join local tech groups, community organizations, business groups, etc. focusing on organizations that are focused in the areas you are interested in and attend the meetings, the seminars, the meet and greets and rub elbows with the folks there - you might find yourself talking with the decision maker at your dream company.

I recently attended a meet and greet at the local community college and found myself rubbing elbows with the owners and CEOs of several of the small tech companies in the area. This turned out to be a great opportunity to hear where they see the industry going and to find out what they think is important. This gives me input to tailor my plan for personal growth (training), hence the security training mentioned above  

Anyway, for what it's worth, that is my advice. Good Luck in all you do and I wish you all the best in your pursuits!

Infosec_Sam

DH44MAG2 said:

Next bit of advice is networking. Join local tech groups, community organizations, business groups, etc. focusing on organizations that are focused in the areas you are interested in and attend the meetings, the seminars, the meet and greets and rub elbows with the folks there - you might find yourself talking with the decision maker at your dream company. 

I recently attended a meet and greet at the local community college and found myself rubbing elbows with the owners and CEOs of several of the small tech companies in the area. This turned out to be a great opportunity to hear where they see the industry going and to find out what they think is important. This gives me input to tailor my plan for personal growth (training), hence the security training mentioned above

That's some great advice, and it's something I've been meaning to do once I have some extra time on my hands. Was your community college event just a meet-and-greet for small business owners, or was it more IT focused? I'd be curious to hear more about it!

DH44MAG2

in this case, the meet and greet had an IT focus. Our local tech school has events of this nature at least once a semester. They do it for the benefit of the students, but most are opened to the community as well. Talk to the folks at your local college and see if you can get on their mailing list. That's what I did. Also recommend getting on one of the colleges many committees and/or task forces. I have found this to be an excellent avenue for networking.   

DH44MAG2

UrbanBob said:

^Agreed.
Learn the market. Look up what the jobs require and tailor your resume to reflect this.

Could not agree more. Each resume should be unique - if you are sending the same resume to 20, 30, or more companies, it will likely be too 'generic' for any of them to consider seriously. It is not enough to convince them that you are a great person with a wealth of knowledge - they get resumes like that every day. You need to convince them that you have a passion for what you do and that you are willing to go the extra mile.

Research the market you are looking at, research the company you are applying too, and most of all, research the job for which you are applying. Then, create a resume with a well-crafted, concise cover letter that is specific to that market/company/job.

 It's a lot of work, but let's face it, that's what they are looking for - people who are willing to do the work it takes to succeed.

TechGromit

johnIT said:

4. Why don't you self-study? B/c I don't know wtf to self-study and I haven't been introduced to anything new in the industry in about 3 years. Everything is now cloud/subscription based which the charity i work for cannot afford and don't want to invest in their technology. It's been a real hindrance in my professional development b/c I'll admit I'm lazy when it comes to self-study and do much better in classroom/e-learning environment and those things are expensive. 

5. Why don't you get a cert? I attempted the MCSA one time last year and the material that I studied didn't match the material on the test whatsoever and it went way over my head. This appears to be a sign that I'm not cut out for some of the more technical positions in IT.

You mentioned you didn't get your "dream job" and haven't been introduced to any new technologies in three years. These two statements tell me all I need to know about your situation and why your in it. Your dream job is a work place that teaches you those new technologies you want to learn and pays you for it, am I correct? I wager I am. The thing is you have to show me that you have a willingness to learn, that's half the reason companies hire people with college degrees more often than not, it has very little to do with that BA or BS written on that piece of paper. What it shows an employer you can be taught, the degree is just proof that you can. Training employees is expensive, who do i want to spend my training dollars on? Some eager job interviewee that tells me he wants to learn, but shows me no proof, or someone who has a college degree and/or IT certifications, proof they can learn?

Yes, self-study is much tougher then getting spoon fed with classroom instruction. That's why they can charge 3k for an A+ certification class and get people to pay for it, there's a lot of lazy people. While it's much cheaper to buy a $30 book and read it, most do not and 80% that do buy it never actually open the book. It's that technical jargon book that sits on a shelf that they will get around to reading someday, but never happens. The simple fact is employees that do not motivate themselves to improve with education own time and dime are all too common. It's all learn on the job and get paid attitude. That's why you can't land that another job farther up the food chain, your lazy and unmotivated. Next applicant please. 

If you want a better job, buy that A+ book, read it, take and pass the certification exams then Network+, Security+, CCNA, if you do this, you will get a better job, it doesn't matter how long you been on the IT helpdesk, you just have to show employers not only that you can learn, but you want to learn. Personally purchased and self studied the A+ and Network+ over two months, passed the exams and got a 3k raise from my efforts. Stop making excuses, just do it. Or not and complain the rest of your life that you have a dead end job and your life sucks. It's far easier to complain.               

TechGromit

mslab said:

I would consider dropping the "skills" section.  I often skip over this section entirely when reviewing a resume because it doesn't tell me anything useful.

I disagree it's not a resume formatting issue, it's a show me your motivated issue.

johnIT

DH44MAG2 said:

UrbanBob said:

^Agreed.
Learn the market. Look up what the jobs require and tailor your resume to reflect this.

Could not agree more. Each resume should be unique - if you are sending the same resume to 20, 30, or more companies, it will likely be too 'generic' for any of them to consider seriously. It is not enough to convince them that you are a great person with a wealth of knowledge - they get resumes like that every day. You need to convince them that you have a passion for what you do and that you are willing to go the extra mile.

Research the market you are looking at, research the company you are applying too, and most of all, research the job for which you are applying. Then, create a resume with a well-crafted, concise cover letter that is specific to that market/company/job.

 It's a lot of work, but let's face it, that's what they are looking for - people who are willing to do the work it takes to succeed.

I disagree with this. I have been using a standard resume template for years. I update it about every six months to highlight certain projects I've accomplished or new skills I've learned/researched. With the latest one I just updated last month, I've been getting roughly 2-3 interviews per week.

I do have three different resumes though one more towards the cloud based companies and project management, one towards customer service and one towards system administrative/manager positions. I barely use the ones towards customer service or project management as a lot of the lingo on those job apps I've never even heard of, or the positions I see I'm frankly not interested in, and I'm nowhere near ready to take the PMP cert. If there's a basic entry level role at a company I'm interested I'll use the customer service resume or project management one but I've mostly stuck to the sysm admin resume and have gotten good results.    

johnIT

TechGromit said:

johnIT said:

4. Why don't you self-study? B/c I don't know wtf to self-study and I haven't been introduced to anything new in the industry in about 3 years. Everything is now cloud/subscription based which the charity i work for cannot afford and don't want to invest in their technology. It's been a real hindrance in my professional development b/c I'll admit I'm lazy when it comes to self-study and do much better in classroom/e-learning environment and those things are expensive. 

5. Why don't you get a cert? I attempted the MCSA one time last year and the material that I studied didn't match the material on the test whatsoever and it went way over my head. This appears to be a sign that I'm not cut out for some of the more technical positions in IT.

You mentioned you didn't get your "dream job" and haven't been introduced to any new technologies in three years. These two statements tell me all I need to know about your situation and why your in it. Your dream job is a work place that teaches you those new technologies you want to learn and pays you for it, am I correct? I wager I am. The thing is you have to show me that you have a willingness to learn, that's half the reason companies hire people with college degrees more often than not, it has very little to do with that BA or BS written on that piece of paper. What it shows an employer you can be taught, the degree is just proof that you can. Training employees is expensive, who do i want to spend my training dollars on? Some eager job interviewee that tells me he wants to learn, but shows me no proof, or someone who has a college degree and/or IT certifications, proof they can learn?

Yes, self-study is much tougher then getting spoon fed with classroom instruction. That's why they can charge 3k for an A+ certification class and get people to pay for it, there's a lot of lazy people. While it's much cheaper to buy a $30 book and read it, most do not and 80% that do buy it never actually open the book. It's that technical jargon book that sits on a shelf that they will get around to reading someday, but never happens. The simple fact is employees that do not motivate themselves to improve with education own time and dime are all too common. It's all learn on the job and get paid attitude. That's why you can't land that another job farther up the food chain, your lazy and unmotivated. Next applicant please. 

If you want a better job, buy that A+ book, read it, take and pass the certification exams then Network+, Security+, CCNA, if you do this, you will get a better job, it doesn't matter how long you been on the IT helpdesk, you just have to show employers not only that you can learn, but you want to learn. Personally purchased and self studied the A+ and Network+ over two months, passed the exams and got a 3k raise from my efforts. Stop making excuses, just do it. Or not and complain the rest of your life that you have a dead end job and your life sucks. It's far easier to complain.               

TechGromit said:

mslab said:

I would consider dropping the "skills" section.  I often skip over this section entirely when reviewing a resume because it doesn't tell me anything useful.

I disagree it's not a resume formatting issue, it's a show me your motivated issue.

 Yeah I think it may have been my attitude, on interviews. I can be very casually sarcastic and I have to work at smiling, being happy, motivated, and excitable. Those emotions do not come very easy to me. I have no problem with small talk or being super conversational, but I've since switch up my outlook on life after coming out of a stage of depression and paranoia which came from this process. So I have tried to become more bubbly on job interviews and act excited that they are considering me, instead of acting like it's just another job interview, just hire me already!!!

DH44MAG2

johnIT said:

I disagree with this. I have been using a standard resume template for years. I update it about every six months to highlight certain projects I've accomplished or new skills I've learned/researched. With the latest one I just updated last month, I've been getting roughly 2-3 interviews per week.

I do have three different resumes though one more towards the cloud based companies and project management, one towards customer service and one towards system administrative/manager positions. I barely use the ones towards customer service or project management as a lot of the lingo on those job apps I've never even heard of, or the positions I see I'm frankly not interested in, and I'm nowhere near ready to take the PMP cert. If there's a basic entry level role at a company I'm interested I'll use the customer service resume or project management one but I've mostly stuck to the sysm admin resume and have gotten good results.    

     

But to a certain extent you are providing a custom resume - maybe not specific to the company, but it is staylored to the job.

The point here is to make you resume stand out from tohe rest. If you are in a highly competive market and your competing with highly qualified people, the more you can do to show you are motivated and willing to go the extra mile, the better your chances. I have been in situations where I was in a highly competitive market and had to differentiate my resume from other highly skilled people. I had to go the extra mile to get the job. I have also been in situations where that wasn't necessary.

When we post a job, we could easily get 20-30 resumes a day and by the end of the submission period have hundreds to choose from. Those without a cover letter may get a cursory glance before they are moved the "the last resort" pile. Those that are generic are the next to go. From there, we narrow them dow to those who show the most effort, interest, and motivation. Yes, a certian level of skill and experience is necessary, but more important is a willingness to learn, a willingness to work, and most important, self-motivation. When I see a resume where the applicant took the time and put in the effort to research the company and the job and taylor their resume to that, it shows me that they have these qualities and it puts them at the top.

You only get one chance to make a first impression and when job hunting, that one chance usually ends up being your resume.