Being Underpaid in IT?

Im new to this site and i actually found this by accident after taking my A+ exam. Alot of good topics and tips around here. Anyway.. I currently make a slavery $24,000/year! but i feel im underpaid. I am a Computer Systems Technician here in New York City and my duties include troubleshooting, repairing and adding hardware/software to IBM server systems. I also work on IBM Blade Centers, Blades, Apple laptops, IBM laptops, IBM Desktops, HP servers, Loading Linux, Mac OS and Windows Images from Network servers and projects for other companies in the US. This is actually my first IT job and have been here for a year and 3 months. I landed this job without any experience or Certifications, the only thing i had was a certificate from a University on Technical courses i took. Im looking into Network+, Server+, Linux+ and maybe security+.. Do you guys think my pay is low? My Supervisor can be a duche sometimes and i have explained to him that i deserve an increase in pay due to all the things i do along with 14/hr days when projects come around. What should i do? look elsewhere or talk about my pay again?

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ms_visio

I donno much about the salary etc in NY city or anywhere in the US but according to what u told us you actually are working on slavery of $24,000/year.

Now you have experience and I think if ur boss doesnt agrees to pay rise you can move on to other jobs

good luck

ITNYC

ms_visio wrote:

I donno much about the salary etc in NY city or anywhere in the US but according to what u told us you actually are working on slavery of $24,000/year.

Now you have experience and I think if ur boss doesnt agrees to pay rise you can move on to other jobs

good luck

It just bothers me a great deal to know that i am getting spit on. Not only do i work extremely hard but do many things at my job. I have worked on a $500,000 Server rack before and 11.50 an hour just haunts me for the work i do. Funny thing is, a friend of mine makes 12.00 an hour at a Foot locker and all he does is sell sneakers. Here i am working with IBM servers, networks,...etc and being payed less. Increadible.. this site has motivated me into getting more certificates and moving on after this current hell... i mean job.

Olajuwon

Here we go again. Another underpaid disgruntled employee.. If you're not happy with your pay, move on, look for another job. Don't complain as it won't make your situation any better. There are better opportunities out there for the experienced and skilled IT pro. The jobs are there you just have to look for them.

Go Bucks

Where I live I would jump all over a $24,000/yr job to gain experience. That has to be a very poor wage for New York City though.

You definitely need to start looking elsewhere now that you have a year under your belt and are working on obtaining certs. Either that or ask your friend if he can get you on at Foot Locker

sharptech

I agree w/ a above poster- move on! Start applying for jobs!

Right now I am making 30k/Yr- I was hired as a senior in college so I had no degree (yet

) and was not certified.

I graduated college and kept working (it is a University) - I am the lead IT Tech etc..

Recently I just got my A+ certification and I would like to be making more than 30k/yr. Most techs usually start around 40-45k minimum w/ good expereince etc..

If I do not get the pay increase- then its probably time to move on. Good thing for you is you have a job so you can take your time trying to find another- remember do not go into a job just because it pays better- make sure you will be happy with the new job!

KAEW 1

b]

My life even worse than you. Sometimes I felt very discouraged that I could not get a job even the slavery job. I have an A+ certificate for a long time I never find a job once. I am studying hard right now on MCP move forward to MCSE.

I have practice alone in my house. I dream to work in a network support in school because I have 10 years of teaching. I taught English for people that speak other languages in southeast Asia. Now I'm in another country ,North America. Do you think the reason that I did not to get a job is because of I'm a woman with visible minority or my English is so bad to be able to get a suitable job?

strauchr

Started with no experience, no certs. I'd say you did very well. With a Diploma my first job paid abosoloutely nothing for 3 months. It then led to a paid contract which was very humble.

Now you got an ok bit of experience. I'd study up on some certs, get 2 years exp. under my belt and then launch into the market.

Leaving now you would have less than 2 years and no certs. What makes you think you would get much money with your current situation?

As for current pay - what have you achieved since you were there, how did you help the company save money, did you bring extra money into the company?

I have taken a few underpaid jobs simply for their experience, thats how you get it. Why would they pay someone top dollar who has no to little experience?

strauchr

ITNYC wrote:

ms_visio wrote:

I donno much about the salary etc in NY city or anywhere in the US but according to what u told us you actually are working on slavery of $24,000/year.

Now you have experience and I think if ur boss doesnt agrees to pay rise you can move on to other jobs

good luck

It just bothers me a great deal to know that i am getting spit on. Not only do i work extremely hard but do many things at my job. I have worked on a $500,000 Server rack before and 11.50 an hour just haunts me for the work i do. Funny thing is, a friend of mine makes 12.00 an hour at a Foot locker and all he does is sell sneakers. Here i am working with IBM servers, networks,...etc and being payed less. Increadible.. this site has motivated me into getting more certificates and moving on after this current hell... i mean job.

Your friend is always going to make $12/h you have the opportunity to make 3 or 4 times that (maybe more) in a few years time. Weigh that up.

rcoop

ITNYC,

$24,000 ($11.50/hr) is this a tough amount to live on for you? It looks as though you are caught up with how much you think you should be making or comparing it to how much your friends are making.

I understand it's hard, but for the education (read experience) you are getting, people would pay thousands for it, think of it as getting paid to learn. It's definitely worth more than another .50 to $1.00/hr. Once the job has taught you everything it can, use the experience you gained to make a nice leap in salary... but don't expect your current employer who is basically giving you a paid education, to pay you what you "think" you are worth... think about the other benefits that they are offering you.

Opportunities to touch the above listed technologies do not come around every day, and if you perform well, I believe you'll be compensated. Many companies, although the small to medium sized businesses, pay based on past performance and how well you perform your responsibilities, not necessarily based on your given responsibilities. Work to prove you are the best at what you do to your boss, take personal pride for everything you produce (with a good and professional attitude), and ask your immediate supervisor (or whatever manager is responsible for your review or possible pay raise) what you would need to do to make more money (or better, more money per hour). You might even ask if there is some special project you could complete on your own time, such as achieve MCP or MCSA or another related certificate, that would be the basis for the raise. And don't be shy, ask if you pass, will they be willing to pay for the certification exam fees.

There have been quite a number of good posts above, and if there is anything I would add, is that it looks like you have a great opportunity to get some experience that will be invaluable in the future, but only if you do it for a good amount of time, a year or more would be better than only six months. If you can afford it, push to get on some type of certificate/reward system, otherwise, realize you are getting a priceless level of experience that you can take away and into your next job.

Take Care,
Rcoop

bcairns

As others have said, it all depends on where you live....

Having said that 24k is very low.

You have to sell yourself.... look at it from this perspective,

Is it worth your time to be there KNOWING you could make as much if not more selling sneakers.

So.... smile at your "boss" as you walk out the door and go find a new job.

12thlevelwarrior

yeah, get certed up, stick it out for two years and then find a new job.

If you get a new job be aim high, because coming in is when you have the best chance to make a salary jump, as opposed to when you are already in.

kevozz

Olajuwon wrote:

Here we go again. Another underpaid disgruntled employee.. If you're not happy with your pay, move on, look for another job. Don't complain as it won't make your situation any better. There are better opportunities out there for the experienced and skilled IT pro. The jobs are there you just have to look for them.

If it's too much, you can always leave...

hortcom

I work in London, UK and my background believe it or not is Gardening! but have worked with computers since 1992.

I started off lowly paid and decided to go self-employed and run my own business. Getting experience has been a problem for me as I have had to buy in my own network equipment over the years and learn that way but CERTIFICATION gave me confidence in myself, self-esteem and more money.

For each cert it justifies my money going up. From £15 /hr - network+ to £25/hr then CCNA now £40 hr and you don't feel guilty as you have slaved getting certed! Of course I only get that like 5-10hrs a week but then I do gardening.

Sorry for rambling but I agree with what has been said get certified for sure, it's proof of your abilities on paper.

webistan

So, here is the bottom line: You're underpaid and you need to find another job before the negative feelings of being underappreciated and manipulated burn you off.

There are many unfair greedy corporations, but there are also some fair ones, so just try looking for another job.

Remember, sometimes opportunity doesn't knock on your door, you have to knock on his, if you know what I mean.

TechJunky

Ouch $12 hour. That is defiantly underpaid and I wouldn't work for anything lower than $15 in the IT Industry.

ITNYC

Thanks for all the feedback. im just getting it off my chest of how bad companies treat employees who work well and are paid poorly, like me.
$11.50 is just horribly poor pay in the IT industry. i guess its fine for doing very limited things like install an OS on a desktop, laptop or troubleshooting easy problems but its just way too low when your working on Servers, Networks, Server Racks, configuring and building PC, laptops. Better yet, My contract has been up for a while now and im still working there, not even as an Employee, they just have me there without a contract or full time employee..... what am i?... someone who is being taken advantage of. Im not saying anything yet though because its a job and checks keep money in my pocket but for sure, im gone soon. messed up how some companies treat people.

frankj1247

Dude,

I had a job right out of college that was doing computer stuff for a beverage company. I think I worked there for 4-5 months. I absolutely hated it, the boss denegrated me, the money sucked, etc., so one day instead of complaining about it, I just didn't go. I said to myself, "F-U-C-K it, this sucks, this is making me unhappy, I'm not going", and I have never looked back.

A short time later I found a nice 4 month internship that not only paid more, but gave me invaluable experience.

I happen to be self-employed full-time at the moment and I am happier than ever. I will try to find a job again soon after more certs, but due to the fact that I have a small business I can say no to those who want to take advantage of me for $11.50. When that happens, I just say "Thanks, but no Thanks" and keep looking because some businesses try to take advantage of those who are desparate.

Plantwiz

ITNYC wrote:

Thanks for all the feedback. im just getting it off my chest of how bad companies treat employees who work well and are paid poorly, like me.
$11.50 is just horribly poor pay in the IT industry. i guess its fine for doing very limited things like install an OS on a desktop, laptop or troubleshooting easy problems but its just way too low when your working on Servers, Networks, Server Racks, configuring and building PC, laptops. Better yet, My contract has been up for a while now and im still working there, not even as an Employee, they just have me there without a contract or full time employee..... what am i?... someone who is being taken advantage of. Im not saying anything yet though because its a job and checks keep money in my pocket but for sure, im gone soon. messed up how some companies treat people.

Employement is an agreement between a company and each employee separately.

While many people seem to feel (from time to time) they do SOOOO much more then everyone else in the company it always amazes me how people seem to fail to consider the amount of revenue they've generated to earn that wage for that day, week, year.

So, when you interview for a job, keep in mind how much YOU cost the company to keep you around. If you do not directly impact revenue, then you have to make sure all those who do have a hand in generating revenue are successful enough to keep you around.

It's not as easy as saying "I should be paid 'x' because my friend is paid 'X" and he only does 'Y'. Your company may not generate the revenue that your friend's company does. And not only that, if you work in a company with more then 1 other person

It's pretty likely that they all feel they should be making that little bit extra 'cause they're all working so hard'. Not too many people say, "Oh yeah, I just show up and make a crappy wage and I don't do jack all day, so it's all good". Everyone I've every heard complain about a wage always states "They work real hard". Well working hard is good, you're supposed to work efficiently and productively if not just work smart...working hard doesn't mean one is efficent..i.e. profitably.

Comes down to mindset. At least for me it always did. Perhaps I was fortunate that my family had a good set of values and instilled the mindset that a good job, at a good company whereby I'd earn a paycheck was what I should strive for.

By all means, if the job you have under appreciates all you do, walk in Monday Morning and quit. No excuses, because you've made it clear you are worth a bunch more then what your making and you should easily find a new job by Lunchtime.

Now, if your getting ready to type in how you cannot quit because at least it is a check....then I'd say your on your way to seeing that it's not just that easy to find a job, particularly one you 'like'.

Frankly, $24K sounds pretty darn fair for the type of work you are doing. Hardware 'stuff' doesn't take a geneous and it is generally entry-level work.

You also stated that it's your first job and you didn't have experience. Regardless of how much you 'improve' because it is your first job it is not uncommon to be locked into that first job pay rate...it is why people do look for different work. Unless you have a family to support, lighten-up and buff your resume and get out there looking for something new (don't quit until you have something....it's way easier to find a NEW job when one has a job).

If you really like this company, then try a business approach. Figure out what you cost the company. Measure how quickly you turn things from 'problem' into 'solution' and how much that saves the company because you can keep the highly paid Sales/Marketing people working and bringing in the business to pay their wages, all clarical wages and yourself. If you didn't do whatever it is you do for them....then it would cost them 'x' to outsource it or 'y' because Sales would be down and underproductive.

A job is an agreement between two parties. Once you accept their offer....you are not being under paid, you accepted it!

Olajuwon

Plantwiz wrote:

Frankly, $24K sounds pretty darn fair for the type of work you are doing. Hardware 'stuff' doesn't take a geneous and it is generally entry-level work.

!

Are you serious? $24k/yr for that type of work in the NYC area is a joke.
Plus, hardware is not always entry level like you said.

sprkymrk

I have to agree with the philosophy behind Plantwiz's post. How much money do you generate for the company, directly or indirectly? In this particular case it should be easy to figure out because it's a "service" job. If you were working as a Network Admin for a widget manufacturing company, you are basically "overhead" and produce no revenue. They make money making and selling widgets, not installing AV on company computers or backing up servers. That stuff "costs" money, it does not directly generate any revenue, so it is harder to figure out what you are worth to the company. Yes, they need you and the computer systems make them more efficient, yada, yada, yada, but someone has to figure out a budget for that stuff and that determines how much they can pay you.

However, ITNYC should be able to figure out what his company charges the customer for his services. Usually, if the company offers a decent compensation package, plus they are responsible for paying the gov't some stuff based on each employees earnings, plus overhead of offices, electricity, phones, etc, (of which the total overhead is divided equally among all employees to come up with a cost of overhead per employee) then you will usually find that you have to double an employee's wage to come up with the cost he represents to the company. In this case we can say that ITNYC probably costs his employer $23/hour.

So if they charge the customer somewhere in the $30-35/hour range when they send ITNYC to fix something, then he is making a fair wage with a little room to grow. However, if his employer charges the customer $40-60 an hour, then he is being taken advantage of. However, as Plantwiz stated they took him on with no experience and were taking a chance on him. I think he should give them 3 more months (he probably learned a lot his first 6-12 months) to "pay them back" for hiring him, and then ask for a raise with justification as to why. He can make a decision based on how that situation goes. I agree with others that if you are getting some good experience here you are lucky, and it can only lead to better things down the road. Stick it out until the 2 year mark without getting bitter if possible. Work on your resume and then shop around. Remember the saying about "the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence".

jasonboche

Bottom line is $24k per year is a horse **** wage to be making for anyone doing the job this guy does and touching the equipment he touches. I don't care if he's part of a profit generating department or not, that point is irrelevant since market should determine this person's wage. Maybe this company doesn't make much money but they will be in much worse shape if they have no IT staff. Nobody on this forum can be blamed for a poor business plan.

To the original poster, get your experience and move on. By staying with that company at that wage, you are more or less reinforcing that your wage is a competitive one. A person working on IBM blade servers should be making minimum $50,000 in the midwest where the cost of living is lower than New York. On the desktop support side of things, I imagine our desktop support team members are making mid 40s to mid 50s.

The jobs are out there. Go get 'em.

Jas

Olajuwon

Your pay is based on your importance and value to the company. Not by how much revenue you bring in. IT people aren't sales people.

People make 25k/yr flipping burgers @ mcdonalds in NY.

sprkymrk

Olajuwon wrote:

Your pay is based on your importance and value to the company. Not by how much revenue you bring in. IT people aren't sales people.

Where did you get that information? If I bring in $10 a month for my company's bottom line, and Joe brings in $10,000, tell me who is more important?

I also didn't state that revenue was the only measure, because in my example of the widget company, the Network Admin does not generate revenue but is still an important piece of the infrastructure. It's harder to put a dollar value on his role, and as I stated, whoever makes the budgets has to figure that out. What I did say was that in ITNYC's case it should be easy to figure out his dollar value, as his services DO generate revenue for the company.

If you want to hire a guy for $60 an hour and then send him out on residential service calls at $40 an hour, you won't be in business very long.

ITNYC

24k a year is fair in New York City? On what planet? Because i cant even live in a sand house with that here. cost of living in the south may be $600 a month for a nice decent apartment, where apartments here go for $1000+ for a decent apartment in a decent area... not even great. Anyway,... Im at the point of just quiting because i feel i have alot more potential than this current garbage. Also, this company is all about "who you know" .. 2 examples of this is,.. My supervisor, which was the Vice President of IT operations got demoted and the position was given to the owners daughter,.... another example is.. (which is my fav) was a "higher level" technician... up in the $60,000 range... got the position because he knew the president.. but has come by and asked me.. "what does a Hard Drive do".. <~~ (Yeah, 60k tech,.. what does a HDD do.) and "what is a BOOTDISK". Great isnt it? or "No internet connection so the NIC must be bad" when all that was needed was encrypted password to access the network.... anyway... Like the other guy said... Im not working on BS systems, if im working on IBM systems (Server Blades, Blade Centers..etc) but yes alot of what i have read on here is experience was the positive outcome, which im happy about and will be able to put on a Resume. As far as what i do for the company, is make sure the customer is happy with the systems and configuration, that way, they wont lose the account.. without the IT department, down goes alot. Come to think of it.. i did a very good job on a project and was voted to get an award but was given to the CEO's friend.. which amazes me. The IT department is a very important factor in everyday operations here but get the least appreciation

ITNYC

Plantwiz i understand what you said about me accepting the contract and well yeah your right. my own fault for not discussing nor going through the contract enough. but what should be the aproach when my contract has ended for 2 months and im still working but have the status of a temp instead of a full time employee? when they refuse to take me as an employee? i work the norm.. 8 hour days and overtime, 5 days a week but dont have any benifits, paid days off, no sick days, no vacation.. what kind of treatment is that.

sprkymrk

ITNYC wrote:

Plantwiz i understand what you said about me accepting the contract and well yeah your right. my own fault for not discussing nor going through the contract enough. but what should be the aproach when my contract has ended for 2 months and im still working but have the status of a temp instead of a full time employee? when they refuse to take me as an employee? i work the norm.. 8 hour days and overtime, 5 days a week but dont have any benifits, paid days off, no sick days, no vacation.. what kind of treatment is that.

It stinks. Don't wait for the 2 year mark, start looking. Best luck to you.

Plantwiz

ITNYC wrote:

24k a year is fair in New York City? On what planet?

It's fair because you accepted the offer and are working for it.

Because i cant even live in a sand house with that here. cost of living in the south may be $600 a month for a nice decent apartment, where apartments here go for $1000+ for a decent apartment in a decent area... not even great.

Can you not share rent with some people? I'm guessing you are young and not that this matters, but many young people, fresh from college or not cannot purchase their retirement dream home and need to save up first. One real good way to save up is to share rent with a person or two. Not always easy, but it's something that has been done for a long, long time to get some money saved to move onto what you deserve.

I also recall reading in here that while a person may make $25K at Micky D's, they won't have the upward potential you have down the road. Sometimes the short-term loss is worth the long-term gain. What will you or what can you make 5 years from today?

If you can hold out get 2-5 years at this place, and your next employer will see you as a whole lot more...just works that way. One companies 'chance' employee...the one they invest the time, allow to make mistakes and prepare for their future is another companies "experienced new hire".

You can turn this into something awesome or sulk.

Anyway,... Im at the point of just quiting because i feel i have alot more potential than this current garbage.

Your perogitive. My experience would suggest that you'd stick it out and not be sour about it. What do I know...I'm old and NEVER seen this before

Also, this company is all about "who you know" .. 2 examples of this is,.. My supervisor, which was the Vice President of IT operations got demoted and the position was given to the owners daughter,.... another example is.. (which is my fav) was a "higher level" technician... up in the $60,000 range... got the position because he knew the president.. but has come by and asked me.. "what does a Hard Drive do".. <~~ (Yeah, 60k tech,.. what does a HDD do.) and "what is a BOOTDISK". Great isnt it? or "No internet connection so the NIC must be bad" when all that was needed was encrypted password to access the network.... anyway... Like the other guy said... Im not working on BS systems, if im working on IBM systems (Server Blades, Blade Centers..etc) but yes alot of what i have read on here is experience was the positive outcome, which im happy about and will be able to put on a Resume. As far as what i do for the company, is make sure the customer is happy with the systems and configuration, that way, they wont lose the account.. without the IT department, down goes alot. Come to think of it.. i did a very good job on a project and was voted to get an award but was given to the CEO's friend.. which amazes me. The IT department is a very important factor in everyday operations here but get the least appreciation

Happens all the time. I have had to 're-train' A+ Certified people more times then I care to count. When untrainable, just release them from their obligations. Sometimes people do forget things, other times they just didnt' need to learn them. The more helpful you are without being bitter the more desirable employee you become and therefore more valuable. Took me a while to get that, but it PAYS off

It's easy to quit when things don't go the way we like. There may not be a desirable job in the future and you'll be grabbing at anything. Look back in US history and you may find how men would stand for hours, days, weeks on in line hoping someone fould fall off the job so they'd move up a space and get hired on (Golden Gate Bridge story as well as other stories, coal miners, etc...) In areas were work is scare....you soon find you will do just about anything to pay your bills.

Best wishes

kevozz

Lots of good advice in this thread. But just in case it has not been said yet,

Don't burn any bridges, leave gracefully, especially this early in your IT career.

Plantwiz

ITNYC wrote:

Plantwiz i understand what you said about me accepting the contract and well yeah your right. my own fault for not discussing nor going through the contract enough. but what should be the aproach when my contract has ended for 2 months and im still working but have the status of a temp instead of a full time employee? when they refuse to take me as an employee? i work the norm.. 8 hour days and overtime, 5 days a week but dont have any benifits, paid days off, no sick days, no vacation.. what kind of treatment is that.

At this point, it is a job, right?

So you have a couple options (as I see it).

1. Continue what you are doing, learning, making some money, making some future acquantences and job referals.
2. Look for something else while continueing to do you best above.
3. Take your contract and schedule a meeting with your boss. Discuss what it says and how you understand it and ask to renegotiate.....Understand, this might lead to the permanent end of your job with them, or it may work favorablely - Hard to say, and my crystal ball just hasn't worked in years

4. Leave without discussing anything, get another job and never look back....though this is a lonely road to tow since this job (your first job in IT) will be on your resume for quite a while and If I were looking at your resume and asked why you left and you responded with a sligthly cleanedup version then what was explained in your first post....I probably wouldn't have you back for a second interview.....There is just too much talent in the market and too few jobs to go around that employers in many cities to have the upper-hand.

I still say, any job right now is a good job. You're more employable if you have a job when you begin looking for a new one and as just recently posted by "kevozz", don't burn bridges, particularly at this stage of the game.

I know a guy on another forum who was making about $12 per hour working a very similar job as yours and he had 2-3 years in. He too lived in NYC and hated what he was getting paid. One day he had enough and told his boss so (I have "NO IDEA" what tone he took while doing this so the story is a little more then hearsay)...He is no longer employeed in IT and to my knowledge hasn't found another IT job.

People do start out making what seem like 'chump change' and in 5 to 10 years (around 30 years of age) finally break into the market, get respected becase they now have experience and prosper. It is tough in the beginning, those who make it hang in there and continue to put out good work.

People move back in with their parent to get a career going. Again as I mentioned earlier, they share rent. Neither are the best solutions, but they are options available and certainly make sense if you are working most of your day anyway and merely need a mailing address, a place to sleep and a place to occassionaly hang around. You may even pickup another job to help make ends meet. I use to work 3 jobs. 1 Full-Time 60 hours. And 2 - Part=time (both with flexible schedules to fill in my 'off-hours'. I was single and only need to make rent plus some bills. You do what you need to do. After about 9-10 years I had enough for a downpayment for a small house in a WAY over-priced city. Then I worked harder to pay the mortgage and accumulate as much on principal as possible.

Try not to look at the too immediate future and look at where you can be in 5 years. The older one gets, the easier it is too look 5 years and realize it is not that much time. Your reputation is worth something, so do a good job today....IT WILL PAY OFF. Do a piss-poor job today and it will haunt you for years to come. It is a very small world.

Follow your heart. If you feel you need to quit. Do so. If you can make the best of it, now is your time to shine. We never know when we are being tested and maybe your 'boss's' friends are reporting back saying what you know or don't know as well as how your response was to their 'stupid question' That stuff makes it back. Follow your heart, use your head.

i work the norm.. 8 hour days and overtime, 5 days a week but dont have any benifits, paid days off, no sick days, no vacation.. what kind of treatment is that.

Not to let this go directly unanswered:
Pretty typical treatment. Do you want to be in a union? Then you can watch your job get shipped overseas or your company just move to disolve the union that is forcing unreasonable high wages for the amount of product/service being offered.

The best way to earn every penny you are worth is to become self-employeed. You deal 100% with the customers. You offer 100% of the services you want. You offer 100% of the collections and other Accounting work. You take responsiblity 100% when the client is not happy. And try doing this by working only 8am-5pm.

Seriously, if you really hate your pay and you cannot find a better way to approach your current employer in such a way that both you and they benefit, write yourself a business plan and see what it takes for you do work for yourself. It's really no problem at all

Can you DO everything? Do you have a business partner to pickup slack in areas where you are weak? How do you handle things you don't know and how do you bill your client for the time it takes you to research that problem?

I'm not jerking your chain here either. Everytime I hear someone complain they don't make enough and I challenge them to go into business for themselves....the seem to find a reason to stay where they are. If you are bringing a lot of skill to the table, you will no doubt be successful going into business for yourself. Though you may find it never hurts to learn on someone else's dime

ITNYC

Plantwiz wrote:

ITNYC wrote:

Plantwiz i understand what you said about me accepting the contract and well yeah your right. my own fault for not discussing nor going through the contract enough. but what should be the aproach when my contract has ended for 2 months and im still working but have the status of a temp instead of a full time employee? when they refuse to take me as an employee? i work the norm.. 8 hour days and overtime, 5 days a week but dont have any benifits, paid days off, no sick days, no vacation.. what kind of treatment is that.

At this point, it is a job, right?

So you have a couple options (as I see it).

1. Continue what you are doing, learning, making some money, making some future acquantences and job referals.
2. Look for something else while continueing to do you best above.
3. Take your contract and schedule a meeting with your boss. Discuss what it says and how you understand it and ask to renegotiate.....Understand, this might lead to the permanent end of your job with them, or it may work favorablely - Hard to say, and my crystal ball just hasn't worked in years
4. Leave without discussing anything, get another job and never look back....though this is a lonely road to tow since this job (your first job in IT) will be on your resume for quite a while and If I were looking at your resume and asked why you left and you responded with a sligthly cleanedup version then what was explained in your first post....I probably wouldn't have you back for a second interview.....There is just too much talent in the market and too few jobs to go around that employers in many cities to have the upper-hand.

I still say, any job right now is a good job. You're more employable if you have a job when you begin looking for a new one and as just recently posted by "kevozz", don't burn bridges, particularly at this stage of the game.

I know a guy on another forum who was making about $12 per hour working a very similar job as yours and he had 2-3 years in. He too lived in NYC and hated what he was getting paid. One day he had enough and told his boss so (I have "NO IDEA" what tone he took while doing this so the story is a little more then hearsay)...He is no longer employeed in IT and to my knowledge hasn't found another IT job.

People do start out making what seem like 'chump change' and in 5 to 10 years (around 30 years of age) finally break into the market, get respected becase they now have experience and prosper. It is tough in the beginning, those who make it hang in there and continue to put out good work.

People move back in with their parent to get a career going. Again as I mentioned earlier, they share rent. Neither are the best solutions, but they are options available and certainly make sense if you are working most of your day anyway and merely need a mailing address, a place to sleep and a place to occassionaly hang around. You may even pickup another job to help make ends meet. I use to work 3 jobs. 1 Full-Time 60 hours. And 2 - Part=time (both with flexible schedules to fill in my 'off-hours'. I was single and only need to make rent plus some bills. You do what you need to do. After about 9-10 years I had enough for a downpayment for a small house in a WAY over-priced city. Then I worked harder to pay the mortgage and accumulate as much on principal as possible.

Try not to look at the too immediate future and look at where you can be in 5 years. The older one gets, the easier it is too look 5 years and realize it is not that much time. Your reputation is worth something, so do a good job today....IT WILL PAY OFF. Do a piss-poor job today and it will haunt you for years to come. It is a very small world.

Follow your heart. If you feel you need to quit. Do so. If you can make the best of it, now is your time to shine. We never know when we are being tested and maybe your 'boss's' friends are reporting back saying what you know or don't know as well as how your response was to their 'stupid question' That stuff makes it back. Follow your heart, use your head.

i work the norm.. 8 hour days and overtime, 5 days a week but dont have any benifits, paid days off, no sick days, no vacation.. what kind of treatment is that.

Not to let this go directly unanswered:
Pretty typical treatment. Do you want to be in a union? Then you can watch your job get shipped overseas or your company just move to disolve the union that is forcing unreasonable high wages for the amount of product/service being offered.

The best way to earn every penny you are worth is to become self-employeed. You deal 100% with the customers. You offer 100% of the services you want. You offer 100% of the collections and other Accounting work. You take responsiblity 100% when the client is not happy. And try doing this by working only 8am-5pm.

Seriously, if you really hate your pay and you cannot find a better way to approach your current employer in such a way that both you and they benefit, write yourself a business plan and see what it takes for you do work for yourself. It's really no problem at all Can you DO everything? Do you have a business partner to pickup slack in areas where you are weak? How do you handle things you don't know and how do you bill your client for the time it takes you to research that problem?

I'm not jerking your chain here either. Everytime I hear someone complain they don't make enough and I challenge them to go into business for themselves....the seem to find a reason to stay where they are. If you are bringing a lot of skill to the table, you will no doubt be successful going into business for yourself. Though you may find it never hurts to learn on someone else's dime

plantwiz, thank you for your insight and advice on my situation. I appreciate it. Well, i guess i should calm down, brush up my resume as well as i can and find a new job. Although i still do feel 24K is low,.. thats not always going to be the case as my career goes on. As far as cost of living, sharing is the option for me.. since im engaged to my fiance, i will look into that, its doable. Anyway.. i dont really plan on storming out (as much as i want to) burning bridges is not a good thing and thats not the type of person i am. Best option i guess is to take what i have learned and find a better job.