What will I be worth?

royal

I know "it all depends." I'm just looking for an average.

Bachelors Degree in Networking, MCSE (when I get it), and roughly 1.5-2ish years of experience doing actual Active Directory, DNS, etc... stuff. I'm located in the Madison Wisconsin area right now. I plan on getting my Security and Messaging specialization.

I know there are sites out there, but I see so many different averages. One site will tell me $80,000 when another tells me $55,000. I want to actually hear from some real computer people which is why I am asking this here.

Thanks!

SRTMCSE

From my experience and talking with colleagues, probably between $40k and $55k (if you can find an administrative position), with only a few years experience. The more experience you get the larger check you'll be able to command.

blargoe

I would say low 40s, with the potentilal to jump significantly around the 4-5 year mark. The site that said 80k is trying to sell you something probably.

JDMurray

Your salary will also depend on the geographical area that you work. A business in a big city, like Los Angeles or New York, will typically pay more than one in the smaller cities. This may not always be the case if there is a sudden demand for particular skills in a smaller community, or in a harsh environment. Check those cushy IT jobs on the oil platforms in the Gulf of Mexico and off the California Coast and see if they pay any better than average.

famosbrown

Well...in my opinion, with a bachelor's degree and MCSE, you are worth 60K+ EASY! I live in Indiana and cost of living is pretty cheap. I make around 60K after the overtime and I'm not MCSE. It all depends on the job. I also got an offer to move to Arkansas for a job offering 55K and Arkansas is one of the cheapest places to live in America.

Famos

Plantwiz

JD makes some great points!

And you are correct "it depends"!

Depends on you and how you present yourself. Depends on what you really know in the NOW and not what you can figure out. Depends how the company sense you'll fight the 'family'. Size of the company. Budget. Location. Competition, etc...

$38-42ish to start. Probably healthy raises as time progresses and they can see you are worth the money. Big city or oil rig or maybe even Iraq...maybe more like $55-100K to start.

RTmarc

jdmurray wrote:

Your salary will also depend on the geographical area that you work. A business in a big city, like Los Angeles or New York, will typically pay more than one in the smaller cities. This may not always be the case if there is a sudden demand for particular skills in a smaller community, or in a harsh environment. Check those cushy IT jobs on the oil platforms in the Gulf of Mexico and off the California Coast and see if they pay any better than average.

I'd even consider cost of living for the area as well. $50000-60000 might not look like a huge salary in New York, L.A., or another large city but places away from the city or in the less crowded areas it might allow you to live very comfortably.

famosbrown

icroyal...if I were you, I would just look up some jobs on dice.com, careerbuilder, monster, etc., in your area and see what they are paying. Just for MCSE and some experience, I'm always seeing 50K and above accross the nation. I rarely see admin jobs below fifty. Engineering (MCSE) is always above 50K, and that is why I'm pursuing the certification. I have the degree, but not the certifications. If you go on the government side...OH BOOOYY!! You are looking at 60K to start, but that's only because they have seasoned people there already and offer room for salary increase. Unless you know some people or come thorugh a government contractor, they usually require a bachelor's degree, certifications, and some experience to balance them out.

Famos

JDMurray

RTmarc wrote:

[I'd even consider cost of living for the area as well. $50000-60000 might not look like a huge salary in New York, L.A., or another large city but places away from the city or in the less crowded areas it might allow you to live very comfortably.

This is precisely why they'll pay you a lot more for the same job in Los Angeles than they will in Little Rock. But you'll get even more pay to work in Fairbanks; not because it's more expensive to live there than Los Angeles, but because it's an inconvenience and few people want a job there.

garv221

Your pay is based soley on what someone is willing to pay you, and with under 2 years expereince I would say anywhere from 35k~40k. What is your current title?

deneb829

Your experience is what is going to determine your salary. A degree (and certs) gets you in the door, but you're still entry level. Less than 2 years is ... well ... degree plus less than 3-5 years. I'd say for your area upper $30's to low-mid $40's.

Seriously, don't make the mistake myself (and many people) made and think you are worth more than you are when you have limited experience (and by limited experience, I mean less than 5 years) and turn down jobs because they don't pay what you think you should be making or they are beneath you (like Jr. Network Admin, etc.). I turned down a networking job just before I got laid of in 2001 with 1.5 years experience as a network engineer because they paid $12K less than the $50K that I was making at the dot-bomb - I could tell the company that I was working for was about to fail, but I stayed anyway. The jobs was an offer from one of the company's former clients who I had worked closely with and they could tell we were about to fail as well. When the company I was working for finally completely crashed those oppourtunities were gone and I ended up going on unemployment for $400 a week for over 3 months. When I started looking for another network job, I found that my 1.5 years of experience just wasn't enough for what was available at the time, because the market was flooded after the dot-com fallout. I lost valuable time and experience and worse yet, ended up taking a job as a technican for about the same as that one company wanted to pay me.

Sure, the magazines (and some people on this site) will tell you that you are worth $50-$60K and we've even read how some of the guys scored sweet salaries, but seriously, decide what you want to do and start out on that path with the patience and humility we all lack. People will tell you that you are an MCSE and you can call your own shots, but unless you are banking on some serious luck, you're in for a rude awakening.

A vocational student here had a choice between a teen outreach center - full time w/ benefits paying $10/hr where he would be doing pretty much everything - or a part time federal job paying $15 w/ no benefits. He wanted the federal job because of the possibilty of going full time. I asked him to consider that in this situation at 20 years old that he would be exposed to much more in the teen outreach center - including (on a small scale) running an entire IT department. In a few years, his experience would be broad, while if he ends up with the federal job, in a few years, he may be making more, but it is likely that he will be doing the exact same thing that he was when he started.

Think career path first - then salary. Now, I am not saying you should take a job as a network admin making $10 an hour, but consider your overall goals. You might find a job that pays less than another may be more along the lines of what you want to do. If you can afford it - do it. If it's only about the money, then you picked the wrong career. Go back to school for an MBA and become a stock broker or financial advisor.

famosbrown

check out this job I found in Wisconsin.

http://careerbuilder.com/JobSeeker/Jobs/JobDetails.aspx?IPath=QHKGTC&jobcount=113&job_did=J3G41B6VNMXQBC1K2S4&sc=&sfascc=administrator&dv=dv&jrdid=&lpage=5&sname=&CiBookMark=2&strcrit=QID%3dA6653265359369%3bst%3dA%3buse%3dALL%3brawWords%3dadministrator%3bCID%3dUS%3bSID%3dWI%3bTID%3d0%3bENR%3dNO%3bDTP%3dDRNS%3bYDI%3dYES%3bIND%3dALL%3bPDQ%3dAll%3bJN%3dJN008%3bPAYL%3d0%3bPAYH%3dGT120%3bPOY%3dNO%3bETD%3dALL%3bRE%3dALL%3bMGT%3dDC%3bSUP%3dDC%3bFRE%3d30%3bCHL%3dAL%3bQS%3dSID_UNKNOWN%3bSS%3dNO%3bTITL%3d0%3bJQT%3dRAD&sd=&pg=2

30-35 per hour for a NETWORK ADMINISTRATOR. Need a 4 year degree and certs. Not MANY people go to school to attain an I.T. bachelor's degree and then study to attain I.T. certs. This is according to the I.T. friends I have...they usually have one or the other. Don't worry about the 5+ year experience requirement. The job I have now asked for 3+ years experience, and i go tit right out of college.

Famos

elover_jm

thts a good offer....

famosbrown

It is a good offer, and jobs like this nation wide is why I said that with a bachelor's degree and MCSE, with a year or two experience, he should be looking at 60K+ EASILY!! You just have to look for the positions, maybe start as and administrator first, like this position is asking for, then work your way up to engineer for even more money. I have friends who just settle for anything and not bother looking for jobs that will pay what they are worth.

I also did a search in Wisconsin and there are MANY network/Systems Administrator jobs available. Go for it and see how much theya re talking.

Famos

garv221

famosbrown wrote:

It is a good offer, and jobs like this nation wide is why I said that with a bachelor's degree and MCSE, with a year or two experience, he should be looking at 60K+ EASILY!! You just have to look for the positions, maybe start as and administrator first, like this position is asking for, then work your way up to engineer for even more money. I have friends who just settle for anything and not bother looking for jobs that will pay what they are worth.

I also did a search in Wisconsin and there are MANY network/Systems Administrator jobs available. Go for it and see how much theya re talking.

Famos

Yeah, I have to disagree. You sound like a salesman selling IT jobs from early 1998 when that was possible.

famosbrown

garv221 wrote:

famosbrown wrote:

It is a good offer, and jobs like this nation wide is why I said that with a bachelor's degree and MCSE, with a year or two experience, he should be looking at 60K+ EASILY!! You just have to look for the positions, maybe start as and administrator first, like this position is asking for, then work your way up to engineer for even more money. I have friends who just settle for anything and not bother looking for jobs that will pay what they are worth.

I also did a search in Wisconsin and there are MANY network/Systems Administrator jobs available. Go for it and see how much theya re talking.

Famos

Yeah, I have to disagree. You sound like a salesman selling IT jobs from early 1998 when that was possible.

Okay...do the searching for yourself. Don't settle for less. I wouldn't be trying to attain my certifications when I have a bachelor's degree in MIS if there wasn't a lot of money in it...oh and I love this stuff . I could have easily jumped into the programming world and made some money sitting down all day looking at code. Why settle when there are people out there getting paid 90K to wait for a performance alert to get emailed to them about a router, they call Sprint, Sprint resolves the problem, and they document. Do some research on the job market. Talk to some people in the field around the nation...60K is VERY attainable for what this guy has. If anything, he could just say forget the networking/systems and go into programming. Make a killing doing that. Or just apply for a government I.T. job that only requires a Bachelor's.

I'm not making any money off of his success...just motivating him and answering his question about what his worth would be. Too many people get comfortable and settle for less when there is more begging for attention. 60K isn't asking much at all from my and those I know experience with similar qualifications. You just have to search, find, and apply. Those who pass up the opportunities because they don't think they are qualified does me a favor because the competition pool decreases.

Famos

EDIT: I just reread your first post. I wouldn't get a bachelor's degree in Networking unless you are sure that is where you want to be. It kind of limits you if you decide to go to the programming side of C.S. or the business side. I also haven't heard of any bachelor's degrees in networking from universities other than the tech schools like DeVry.

blargoe

deneb829 wrote:

Your experience is what is going to determine your salary. A degree (and certs) gets you in the door, but you're still entry level. Less than 2 years is ... well ... degree plus less than 3-5 years. I'd say for your area upper $30's to low-mid $40's.

Seriously, don't make the mistake myself (and many people) made and think you are worth more than you are when you have limited experience (and by limited experience, I mean less than 5 years) and turn down jobs because they don't pay what you think you should be making or they are beneath you (like Jr. Network Admin, etc.). I turned down a networking job just before I got laid of in 2001 with 1.5 years experience as a network engineer because they paid $12K less than the $50K that I was making at the dot-bomb - I could tell the company that I was working for was about to fail, but I stayed anyway. The jobs was an offer from one of the company's former clients who I had worked closely with and they could tell we were about to fail as well. When the company I was working for finally completely crashed those oppourtunities were gone and I ended up going on unemployment for $400 a week for over 3 months. When I started looking for another network job, I found that my 1.5 years of experience just wasn't enough for what was available at the time, because the market was flooded after the dot-com fallout. I lost valuable time and experience and worse yet, ended up taking a job as a technican for about the same as that one company wanted to pay me.

Sure, the magazines (and some people on this site) will tell you that you are worth $50-$60K and we've even read how some of the guys scored sweet salaries, but seriously, decide what you want to do and start out on that path with the patience and humility we all lack. People will tell you that you are an MCSE and you can call your own shots, but unless you are banking on some serious luck, you're in for a rude awakening.

A vocational student here had a choice between a teen outreach center - full time w/ benefits paying $10/hr where he would be doing pretty much everything - or a part time federal job paying $15 w/ no benefits. He wanted the federal job because of the possibilty of going full time. I asked him to consider that in this situation at 20 years old that he would be exposed to much more in the teen outreach center - including (on a small scale) running an entire IT department. In a few years, his experience would be broad, while if he ends up with the federal job, in a few years, he may be making more, but it is likely that he will be doing the exact same thing that he was when he started.

Think career path first - then salary. Now, I am not saying you should take a job as a network admin making $10 an hour, but consider your overall goals. You might find a job that pays less than another may be more along the lines of what you want to do. If you can afford it - do it. If it's only about the money, then you picked the wrong career. Go back to school for an MBA and become a stock broker or financial advisor.

quoted for truth

garv221

deneb829 wrote:

Your experience is what is going to determine your salary. A degree (and certs) gets you in the door, but you're still entry level. Less than 2 years is ... well ... degree plus less than 3-5 years. I'd say for your area upper $30's to low-mid $40's.

Seriously, don't make the mistake myself (and many people) made and think you are worth more than you are when you have limited experience (and by limited experience, I mean less than 5 years) and turn down jobs because they don't pay what you think you should be making or they are beneath you (like Jr. Network Admin, etc.). I turned down a networking job just before I got laid of in 2001 with 1.5 years experience as a network engineer because they paid $12K less than the $50K that I was making at the dot-bomb - I could tell the company that I was working for was about to fail, but I stayed anyway. The jobs was an offer from one of the company's former clients who I had worked closely with and they could tell we were about to fail as well. When the company I was working for finally completely crashed those oppourtunities were gone and I ended up going on unemployment for $400 a week for over 3 months. When I started looking for another network job, I found that my 1.5 years of experience just wasn't enough for what was available at the time, because the market was flooded after the dot-com fallout. I lost valuable time and experience and worse yet, ended up taking a job as a technican for about the same as that one company wanted to pay me.

Sure, the magazines (and some people on this site) will tell you that you are worth $50-$60K and we've even read how some of the guys scored sweet salaries, but seriously, decide what you want to do and start out on that path with the patience and humility we all lack. People will tell you that you are an MCSE and you can call your own shots, but unless you are banking on some serious luck, you're in for a rude awakening.

A vocational student here had a choice between a teen outreach center - full time w/ benefits paying $10/hr where he would be doing pretty much everything - or a part time federal job paying $15 w/ no benefits. He wanted the federal job because of the possibilty of going full time. I asked him to consider that in this situation at 20 years old that he would be exposed to much more in the teen outreach center - including (on a small scale) running an entire IT department. In a few years, his experience would be broad, while if he ends up with the federal job, in a few years, he may be making more, but it is likely that he will be doing the exact same thing that he was when he started.

Think career path first - then salary. Now, I am not saying you should take a job as a network admin making $10 an hour, but consider your overall goals. You might find a job that pays less than another may be more along the lines of what you want to do. If you can afford it - do it. If it's only about the money, then you picked the wrong career. Go back to school for an MBA and become a stock broker or financial advisor.

I agree also.

famosbrown wrote:

Okay...do the searching for yourself......Talk to some people in the field around the nation.

You are talking to a person who heads a corperate IT dept, I look at hundreds of resumes each year and interview people just like yourself and in no way would I agree to drop 60k on a fresh college kid with little experience. I need experience in my dept, with being in charge I want to be able to relax and have regroup meetings, not explanation or demostration meetings for my staff. It's good to have ambition; I know I have alot of it but you need to be in touch with realitly and have two feet on the ground- thats what experience gives you and thats what you lack.

famosbrown

garv221 wrote:

deneb829 wrote:

Your experience is what is going to determine your salary. A degree (and certs) gets you in the door, but you're still entry level. Less than 2 years is ... well ... degree plus less than 3-5 years. I'd say for your area upper $30's to low-mid $40's.

Seriously, don't make the mistake myself (and many people) made and think you are worth more than you are when you have limited experience (and by limited experience, I mean less than 5 years) and turn down jobs because they don't pay what you think you should be making or they are beneath you (like Jr. Network Admin, etc.). I turned down a networking job just before I got laid of in 2001 with 1.5 years experience as a network engineer because they paid $12K less than the $50K that I was making at the dot-bomb - I could tell the company that I was working for was about to fail, but I stayed anyway. The jobs was an offer from one of the company's former clients who I had worked closely with and they could tell we were about to fail as well. When the company I was working for finally completely crashed those oppourtunities were gone and I ended up going on unemployment for $400 a week for over 3 months. When I started looking for another network job, I found that my 1.5 years of experience just wasn't enough for what was available at the time, because the market was flooded after the dot-com fallout. I lost valuable time and experience and worse yet, ended up taking a job as a technican for about the same as that one company wanted to pay me.

Sure, the magazines (and some people on this site) will tell you that you are worth $50-$60K and we've even read how some of the guys scored sweet salaries, but seriously, decide what you want to do and start out on that path with the patience and humility we all lack. People will tell you that you are an MCSE and you can call your own shots, but unless you are banking on some serious luck, you're in for a rude awakening.

A vocational student here had a choice between a teen outreach center - full time w/ benefits paying $10/hr where he would be doing pretty much everything - or a part time federal job paying $15 w/ no benefits. He wanted the federal job because of the possibilty of going full time. I asked him to consider that in this situation at 20 years old that he would be exposed to much more in the teen outreach center - including (on a small scale) running an entire IT department. In a few years, his experience would be broad, while if he ends up with the federal job, in a few years, he may be making more, but it is likely that he will be doing the exact same thing that he was when he started.

Think career path first - then salary. Now, I am not saying you should take a job as a network admin making $10 an hour, but consider your overall goals. You might find a job that pays less than another may be more along the lines of what you want to do. If you can afford it - do it. If it's only about the money, then you picked the wrong career. Go back to school for an MBA and become a stock broker or financial advisor.

I agree also.

famosbrown wrote:

Okay...do the searching for yourself......Talk to some people in the field around the nation.

You are talking to a person who heads a corperate IT dept, I look at hundreds of resumes each year and interview people just like yourself and in no way would I agree to drop 60k on a fresh college kid with little experience. I need experience in my dept, with being in charge I want to be able to relax and have regroup meetings, not explanation or demostration meetings for my staff. It's good to have ambition; I know I have alot of it but you need to be in touch with realitly and have two feet on the ground- thats what experience gives you and thats what you lack.

Okay...I respect your opinion, but please respect mine. I'm also in a supervisory position and what got me the position was my degree. I do work for a government agency that has over 4000 users, so heading the I.T. department is kind of hard being that there are so many divisions...Security, LAN (physical), Exchange, AD, Oracle Developers, DBA's, custom app developers, Help Desk, communication, and the list goes on. I came in as a programmer and now supervise the Tier 2 Help Desk and serve on the Tier 3. I programmed for a month and then applied for a job that came open for Tier 2 Help Desk Supervisor. I'm getting the certifications to break into the network engineering that asks for the certs and experience. I've interviewed with many companies for network/system admin positions, but they just needed to much of my time that I couldn't provide right now...menaing the I.T. department was only 2 people and they were looking to bring a couple more to balance the load. I didn't want to dedicate that much time until I was done with my certs. I still applied and I was highly considered although I do lack the experience.

You do make a good point...you wouldn't drop 60K on guy right out of college, but many BIG companies WILL, especially those hiring who have higher education under their belt and see the value of it. It's all int he eyes of a beholder. If I were in your shoes, I wouldn't hire a person right out of college for Help Desk for 60K either...the skills just aren't developed. but many companies nationwide just wants a person with a degree and the certifications to add the skills needed. A degree to sit at the table with other managers, and the certifications to show you can actually do the specific job. I again point out the programming side that college teaches. I'm disagreeing with someone coming out and wanting to go into a field like networking, in which traditional universities don't stress much.

The pay is out there for the taking, and I provided a link to just ONE in the original posters state. The hiring company will make it clear what they want and what they are looking for. It is all about what the company, business, or agency wants...not what you want.

Famos

Humper

Here in Canada many graduates find jobs in the 55-60k range in IT, I see it all the time.

int80h

famosbrown wrote:

Engineering (MCSE)

Don't let the name fool you, MCSE work isn't engineering.

elover_jm

Garve is right fellows........

i know quite a few who started out tht way.

A degree is very important.........

famosbrown

int80h wrote:

famosbrown wrote:

Engineering (MCSE)

Don't let the name fool you, MCSE work isn't engineering.

I agree...if you are just maintaining an already established infrastructure. Building the infrastructure from ground up is engineering (design/building). I don't get caught up in the word "engineering" at all. I'm just quoting what the industry lists as a job title whether it be a Microsoft Widnows Engineer, Nework Engineer, Systems Engineer, etc.

In regards to the above posts...I could go back and forth about the worth, but I won't. Once I'm done with my certs, I will be applying for the 60K+ jobs doing network/systems admin/engineering that require a bachelor and MCSE...never hurts to try, and so far I've been successfully applying for jobs that on paper I shouldn't qualify for.

Famos

sprkymrk

famosbrown wrote:

It is a good offer, and jobs like this nation wide is why I said that with a bachelor's degree and MCSE, with a year or two experience, he should be looking at 60K+ EASILY!!

famosbrown wrote:

Why settle when there are people out there getting paid 90K to wait for a performance alert to get emailed to them about a router, they call Sprint, Sprint resolves the problem, and they document.

One question Famos - What planet are you from and which way do I point my rocket ship to get there? :P

Seriously though - no disrespect at all - yes these ads are out there. Yes they usually ask for a degree plus certs. However you can't assume that all employers are willing to drop 60K on a guy who doesn't have the xp. Look closer and you'll find that if you don't have experience in managing 200 Exchange servers across a continent they won't hire you. The jobs that ask for 3+ years experience and a degree and a cert or two usually only pay in the low 40's and there are hordes lined up at the door to get an interview. It's great to be encouraging and optimistic because there are opportunities out there, but let's keep it all in perspective and balance.

BTW - Since when did Sprint ever solve a problem?

famosbrown

Again...I'm done with the salary stuff. I am just pointing out experiences of my own and many others I know. One of the first things we learned in our Senior year of college is to apply, apply, apply, and not worry about the experience requirements. Eitehr they will take you, or they won't, it's as simple as that. In my experience, they have taken me.

LOL...about the Sprint thing. It is crazy!! This is my cousin's second job (3rd Shift) in D.C. All he does is wait for a performance alert to get emailed to him. He waits 20 minutes for the issue to resolve itself. If not, then he calls Sprint and they remotely or if they have to, interactively solve the problem. He makes about 80K working with only A.D. for SSA during the day in Baltimore, and 90K doing this. The job required MCSE, Cisco, etc., etc., although he isn't using any of it . Of course he has been in the game for a long time (over 10 years). He isn't entry-level.

Famos

bmauro

Location Location Location.

Remember - 90K sounds great and all - but you have to remember the cost of living for DC and the surrounding area.

A quick salary comparison for my area (Pgh, PA) shows that 90K in the DC area is equal to about 49K in my area. Still a very good salary, but 49K is no longer knock-your-socks-off.

Again - lets take this MCSE + degree for 60K. For my area that is unheard of, but if you would look at the cost of living for the NYC area, 60K is equal to about 38-39K in my area. Once again, a good starting salary, but not amazing.

I also find it funny when people see salary $$$ from a survey and then get all crazy like, especially when the surveys are more than likely done at the national level.

My brother-in-law lives in Staten Isl, NY, has a house half the size of me, yet his cost close to 500K.

Perspective...

famosbrown

I totally agree with the cost of living in DC and Maryland. I'm from Baltimore , Maryland...born and raised . You are from the East Coast (PA), so you should know that a commute is well worth 90K a year. There are many of my family members who would be content with 50K in the Maryland/DC area. It is all about where you live. If you want to live one minute from where you work, then you will pay premium. If you are willing to commute a half hour, then you will live comfortably.

I do not trust the online COL calculators anymore. When this job in Arkansas flew me down (still working out numbers with them), they were talking about how much the cost of living is much cheaer than where I am in Indiana. They showed me numerous calculators that showed that if they gave 45000/year, it is equivalent to making 55000/year in my area. It was PURE BS. During my trip, I was given an opportunity to tour the surrounding area including Little Rock, Pine Bluff, and White Hall, but the cost of living wasn't much different. Gas was about the same price, the apartment complexes that I visited were a little more than what I'm paying now for the type of apartment I'm staying in now "Luxury", and when visiting home builders, the square footage and types of houses were about the same as my current area. Many people I've talked to who knew the area or state said that it was one of the cheapest states to live in, but for me, I did the research myself, and although in some areas it may be cheap, the areas, I visited weren't. The areas I visited were the zip codes and cities that were placed in the calculators.

My whole family is from the Maryland/DC area and they live comfortably. You just have to do the research on the area and sometimes commute. Many people who work in those areas do commute. If 90K in DC is equivalent to 49K in your area, then you must be living pretty well . I'm fromt he area and many of my family members live VERY well with a 60K per year job, and in this case, an extra 90K .

Famos

famosbrown

Quick search for a position in Pittsburgh.

They prefer 5 years experience, but would consider less.

They prefer a MCSE or CCNA, but....

http://careerbuilder.com/JobSeeker/Jobs/JobDetails.aspx?IPath=QHKGTC&jobcount=32&job_did=J8C7TY6SFSDDM4RY48M&sc=&sfascc=administrator&dv=dv&jrdid=&lpage=2&sname=&CiBookMark=1&strcrit=QID%3dA6653265555443%3bst%3da%3buse%3dALL%3brawWords%3dadministrator%3bCTY%3dPittsburgh%3bSID%3dPA%3bCID%3dUS%3bENR%3dNO%3bDTP%3dDRNS%3bYDI%3dYES%3bIND%3dALL%3bPDQ%3dAll%3bJN%3dJN008%3bPAYL%3d0%3bPAYH%3dgt120%3bPOY%3dNO%3bETD%3dALL%3bRE%3dALL%3bMGT%3dDC%3bSUP%3dDC%3bFRE%3d30%3bCHL%3dAL%3bQS%3dsid_unknown%3bSS%3dNO%3bTITL%3d0%3bJQT%3dRAD&sd=&pg=

sprkymrk

Okay.....
Did you see the stuff under the section "Responsible for:"?

That does not fit the description of a guy with minimal experience and only a degree with an MCSE.

Check it out:

Responsible for:

*Active Directory (2000/2003)
* Antivirus (Trend Micro OfficeScan/ServerProtect)
* BlackBerry
* Captaris RightFax
* CipherTrust IronMail
* Cisco Routers/Switches/Wireless Access Points
* Citrix
* Disaster Recovery
* Microsoft ISA
* Microsoft MOM
* Microsoft Exchange (2000/2003)
* LANDesk Patch Manager
* HP Storage Data Protector
* NAS/SAN Administration (EMC)
* Programming
* VMware Workstation/GSX/ESX
* Windows clustering

You need to know all that stuff, and the low end is 55K. That's a LOT of required knowlwdge. The programming alone could be a show stopper for most network guys applying for the position. It also specifically stated STRONG Cisco skills and mentioned that they are in the middle of an E2K to E2K3 upgrade. Responsibility for the ISA firewall is a speciality skill, as is Citrix and MOM administration. I think a guy with only a degree and MCSE will fall short of qualifying for this job IMHO, FWIW.

I realize you said "quick search", but my point is that most of the jobs out there read just like this one. Throw in Lotus Notes or Unix experience on many of them too. These jobs are the ones going for 55-75K, but I honestly don't see how a guy with only a degree and MCSE will qualify. I don't doubt your word that it may happen, but I would submit that that is the exception and not the norm.

famosbrown

Would that stop you from applying?? Because you can't do everything listed? A person with a bachelor's degree in CS, CIS, or MIS, should be pretty good with the programming side if not, be able to pick up on the language provided.

I had an interview with a local county for a systems/network admin and I specifically told them that I was in school trying to learn and attain my certifications, but I'm not using most of it in my current job. They presented all of the candidates with a three page checklist of all of the technolgies that they currently have from Microsoft Word to Cisco routers. The interviewer noticed that I didn't mark Expert for any of the choices. I told them that if I were an expert, I wouldn't have room to grow or learn from others. She said that I was one of few who didn't place Expert for anything. She also said that if someone would have checked that they knew everything on the checklist, which mirrored the job description, she would think they were either arrogant or lying. She also asked me a bunch of technical questions concerning the job and I knocked them all out like a champ. After each one, I reminded her that it was strictly book, certifications, and home lab knowledge. I've never used or implemented any of the technology or ways to solve problem at my current job. She said that they aren't looking for a "know it all," but someone who is energetic and knows how to find answers when they don't know it. She also said that she and her boss doesn't know everything, but they know how to find the answers.

Why not apply for it?? You never know until you try. I will try to get the job description of the second job my cousin has for third shift...I'm sure it just doesn't say network monitoring .

Famos

EDIT: I think you or maybe others are misunderstanding me. I never said it's the "norm," only sating that the opportunities EXIST. If it were the "norm," then everyone would be doing it and not running to secure programming jobs that do pay this amount out of college. Apply, apply, apply, and something good may come out of it. If not a job, the interviewing experiences and questions. NO more are the interviews asking for your strengths and weaknesses, but how to questions regarding the actual job, or what can you bring to the organization.

I'm not the only one who suggests that 55K to 60K is a good figure...I guess it depends on personal experience .

Trailerisf

famosbrown wrote:

After each one, I reminded her that it was strictly book, certifications, and home lab knowledge. I've never used or implemented any of the technology or ways to solve problem at my current job. She said that they aren't looking for a "know it all," but someone who is energetic and knows how to find answers when they don't know it. .

Not one of the 50 companies I support would allow you to touch any of their servers. I'm sorry but you don't learn on the fly on someone's data.

Your "learning curve" could cost millions. You may have found a small mom and pop company that would be understanding. No chance with corporate America.