new gen of working people...

bighornsheep

so it was my company's christmas party last week, and a bunch of us were just talking crap, and our manager came by and joined the conversation. Somehow, we started talking about our plans post-graduation and jobs and stuff. Out of the blue, my manager said "young people now arent the same anymore, they're lazy, they think they know everything, and they dont believe in rewarding work and effort"

I dont think he was necessarily referring to any of us (the part-time), but it really makes me think...is that the case? There is some truth to what he said I think, we have this one guy (also part-time) who's been there for like 3 years, and he does think and talk like he's the boss, he doesnt really try to get promoted, or a switch to full-time, except for the lazy part, he's right-on.

So perhaps some of the 'older' people here could give a comment or two, is there a 'general' feeling that young people are lazy, and bad?

So I guess what I am saying is...does age somehow mean maturity for managers and employers?

supertechCETma

bighornsheep wrote:

...does age somehow mean maturity for managers and employers?

to be sure.

sprkymrk

I think every generation says that about the younger generation, but being a middle aged guy myself (3 I have to say I think the same way also. I see about 1 in 10 younger folks that impress me with their work habits and attitude. However, by the time most of the rest reach 30 or so and have a spouse and kids they tend to mature, mellow, and get their act together. You still have the 10% or so that never seem "get a clue".

Maybe in your boss' day people reached that level of maturity sooner.

bluskie

I think that what your boss said is true. I was higher at as a bench technician when i was 18. Through my year of working there we have went through two people. When I first started there their was three employees. Now it is back to three I asked them why they have had me their so long they said. You were the first employee we have had you work ethic is out standing. You do what you need to. We have had one tech that was A+ cert. I am not A+ yet i am currently working on OS I have passed HW. But from what I have heard they want to have me full time after school. I would have to agree that people are getting lazier. I have friends that want to be in the IT field but they don’t take the steps to get their they go home and play games.

Jon
Please excuse my errors

EdTheLad

I dont think age comes into it so much,people are different,some like to work others dont.I've worked for many companies and usually i've been the youngest by at least 10 years,i find many of the old guys dont care about the job,they want their paycheck and an easy life.Young guys coming into a company work hard in the beginning but after a year or two
and some extra security they can become lazy,its life.
Every company i've worked for is usually held together by one or two really good guys and the rest just make up the furniture.
When you're a young guy you complain about the old guys,when you're an old guy you'll complain about the young guys.

Orion82698

I think this is true. People in general these days are just lazy. Look at how bad obesity is in youth today. Forget about all the fat 30 year olds, look at the kids. Instead of playing stick ball, and riding their bikes like kids use to, they're playing 360/Wii or spending all day on MySpace now.

I think back in the day, there was more of a demand to be successful. Now, people just want to do what they can do to get buy, and the others... well, they just suck off the government.

My 2 cents.

Smallguy

I don't know if it's the generation or not but I find alot of people nowadays expect alot but aren't willnig to give out the same.

maybe it's cultural or a geographic thing

this is acanadian example

I've heard that in Alberta they love people from the Maritimes because we are hard workers compared to the people they're used to.

also it may be a back gorund issue I find people I've met who come from lower income families usually have a better work ethic thna people I've met from high income families, atleast young people.

but I don't think it is completly a generation thing but peopel sem ot be growing up slwoer now than 30 years ago.

if you think about it 30 years ago at 25 you were probably married had a few kids nowadays msot of the people I know at 25 are out on there own but aren't married don;t have kids... I even know ahandful of people woh are in thweir 30's and not married or planning ot have kids anytime soon.

seccie

Hmmm,

sometimes it works the other way. When I was 26 I was kind of yuppie, wanted to make career in a big company with well-known name, wore a suit and a tie. I wanted a family and kids.

Now I like wearing jeans, driving a motorbike, don't want to have kids, I'd like to have more free time and are committed to learning things which I consider interesting (e.g. Infosec).

Maybe midlife crisis is a factor?

JDMurray

Men tend not to be fully adult-minded until around age 28, and women around age 25. For anyone younger than these ages, I do not consider them to be at their full, adult-minded potential. People still continue to mature after these ages, but at a much slower rate than when they were younger. I assume this trend has existed in humans for many (tens of) thousands of years.

Judge not a young, smart-assed youngster, least you be judged a defunct, out-of-touch codger.

keenon

hmm.. interesting.. i think that younger ppl are a bit lazy due to their parents mindsets( giving them everything and not making them completely earn stuff)

however.. in my case 31 soon to be 32.. i was told and made to earn everything and always told to be the best. my parents helped me when they felt like it (about 5- 10%) but i had to give 100% on most every occassion.

but your boss i think was being somewhat honest but somewhat out of line ( professionally & personally). who knows what anyone of you had to endure to get to where their at today ( him included).

so the only ppl that are lazy woke up with everything, earned nothing and expect the world just for being here and showing up

Webmaster

I always wondered how I'd feel about the youngster when I left that group. I started at 19 and I pissed off quite a few older, rusty, IT folks who didn't like a youngster doing there job twice as fast and eliminate the need for expensive contracters who became their 'friends' over the years. At some point I decided to stop caring. People skills just weren't a priority for me back then, and I think that goes for many youngsters nowadays and perhaps even more. I thought the old guys were lazy, spending most of their time reading coffee, walking down the hall or being on the phone chatting with others, browsing the internet, show pictures of their spouses and houses (all more important than they may seem for a youngster, it's not all about 'technology'. I just wanted to work, work, work. Built up my resume, get more challenging projects, and even pay off student loans. Drove 3 hours each day to get to work when I was 22, had a nice suite, tie, and fast car. Sure I came 1 to 2 hours late, but I often stayed twice as long at the end of the day. And who was calling in on Saturdays to make sure everything was up and running even though it wasn't used in the weekend. That quite litteraly didn't turn out to be very healthy, but I also had dozens of coworkers of the same age who were just as mad and anything but lazy.

All good things come to an end though, IT got booming and everyone who knew the any key isn't really a particular key on the keyboard could get a job in IT, including a car, laptop cellphone, and a salary higher than most people who had twice the amount of education earned. I eventually got a job as trainer, and had to train and 'certify' the youngsters. A couple of bright ones with ambitition, but there was a flood of lazy people. My first online practice exams were question I wrote for them. The response from people on the Internet was my motivation to quit my job and start helping certify people who really want it. People who went on the Internet searching for knowledge without someone telling them to do so (6 years ago that meant something). I still believe that most people who come here and aren't looking for cheats are excluded from the lazy group.

I think it's a lot easier to turn a lazy youngster into a hardworking man than to change an older worker's work habits. With the right coach and manager most youngsters can be shaped, but I guess the problem is that it shouldn't be necessary as much as it seems these days. I also think most people just prefer to work with people of or around there own generation and they will always have something cliche to say about an older or younger generation.

garv221

It all depends. I think twenty-somethings have different priorities. I am 25, head of an IT dept, have a nice mortage and get along with everyone at the office. I think first impressions are everything & when you are younger you have to earn respect.

bighornsheep

WOW! lots of interesting things said, and some Oscar-winning lifestories.

Johan, mad props for why you are doing what you are doing...

For those that mention that they had to work hard, perhaps this indirectly shows that the upper management you had to impress did feel younger age meant laziness/inmaturity?

And those that have this thinking, perhaps they themselves had to be very hardworking to get to where they are, and they probably meant lots of lazy people who did nothing to get alot...?

Perhaps it's my "laziness", I'm really thinking and feeling that who you know is still more important than what you know....

Webmaster

Thanks B I never had any regrets.

Perhaps it's my "laziness", I'm really thinking and feeling that who you know is still more important than what you know....

It's very important 'who' you know but 'what' you know can have a great influence on who you get to know. In the end, I think what you know is still more important to become successful in IT. But it is a bit like comparing a degree with experience, the best is it to have them both.

TechJunky

I am amazed at the younger generation myself. I am only 23 and I am amazed the lack of self respect and pride of a quality job well done. Even people my own age are very laxidazy to say the least. Younger people than myself, 17 and 18 just floor me with their high expectations and little to no willingness to work for it. I have a younger brother who is 21 and we both came from a lower to middle class home, though our parents taught us work ethics. We were working by the time we were 16 and have worked ever since. Had to purchase our own car, pay our own insurance etc. It seems kids now adays are handed everything for the most part. I think parenting is a huge influence on how the younger generation turns out. So really you could look at it as the kids are the problem or you could look at it as the parents of those kids didnt do their job.

It's all perspective.

I personally think parenting is the problem. My cousins are spoiled brats, dont get me wrong I love them. They are just plain spoiled and I think its my Aunt's and Uncles fault for letting them get away with everything.

My parents made me who I am. I hated them for making me work for everything when I was younger, but now I cant thank them enough for setting me up for the real world at such a young age.

bmauro

Wow - older generation thinks that the younger generation is lazy? WOW news flash :P

I don't think this is anything new - younger kids thinking they know everything and older folk thinking the younger gen is ungrateful and spoiled.

When I was your age we walked to school in 10 ft of snow - uphills - both ways!!

When I was your age we had 9600 baud modems - 1.44MB floppy disks owned all - and we LIKED IT!!!

Younger kids are less likely to take advice IMO - because they believe they "know" just as much as the people giving the advice. Sometimes this is true - but IMO most of the time it's not.

Where I work I'm one of the younger guys - by at least 10 some years. Some of the guys have been working in networking for 15 some years - thats almost half my age. That much time gives that person a HUGE amount of expirence - so when he says something, I listen. There might be a new *fancier* way to do things, but I'll still listen to what he has to say because I'm still new at this and still learning.

garv221

"When I was a boy of fourteen, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be twenty-one, I was astonished at how much he had learned in seven years." ~Mark Twain, "Old Times on the Mississippi" Atlantic Monthly, 1874

xaviermace

I think there is something to be said for both sides. As a general rule, younger people like my self (I'm 22) are lazier because we have had it easier. I think I am the middle of the road on this one. I was home schooled by my mom and I guess we would be considered lower middle class. I have worked since I was 16, paid for my own car, etc. I am always on time and will try to stay late when asked. I have put in time on the weekends when needed as well. However, I sometimes find my self cutting corners because I just didn't feel like doing it the right way. Does this make me lazy? I guess to some extent yes. But I reason it away by reminding myself the number of times I have had to fix a mistake made by my older (and much higher paid) co-worker. It won't kill him to fix one of mine if needed. I'm not saying that is a justification, just the way my brain works.

Many of the older people (at least ones I have worked with) don't feel it necessary to work as hard because they feel they are basically entitled to the pay either way. You know, they have "served" their time, the company owes it to them. I have worked with two older people recently who demonstrate this point perfectly, one just retired a month ago and one has another year before they retire.

The first person came in everyday on time or early. He worked the entire day and occasionally stayed late right up to the day he retired. He was always respectful even to young people such as my self, he would always answer your questions, and he did not have a problem admitting you were right and he was wrong. He would come to me to ask questions on newer hardware, and I would go to him with questions regarding older stuff. I enjoyed working with him.

The second person, comes in an hour late every day, leaves for lunch around 11:30, comes back 1-1:30 and leaves approximately whenever she feels like it. If the group is asked to work overtime she just laughs and goes home her normal time. I stay an hour late and get chewed out the next day because there was work left from the night before. You cannot try to correct her without her telling you about the stack of certifications she has and how you aren't qualified to correct her. No joke, she actually pulled them out of her purse and held them in front of me one time. Nevermind the fact that the most recent one is 6 years old. As far as she is concerned she has been in the industry for 20+ years and you are lucky to have somebody as knowledgeable as her as a co-worker. She downright REFUSES to learn about the new technology, she expects you to do it for her. I respect her experience in the industry but the fact is she has never even installed Windows XP or Server 2003, doesn't even know what Vista is, and hasn't touched the inside of a PC since the original Pentium. I literally asked my boss why she was hired and he said, look at all of the certs she has....

Lastly though, I can also see the view from the older persons perspective. I have worked with people my age who came in, clocked in, and promptly went to get breakfast. They didn't actually start working until 45 minutes after they got there. The would then complete the minimum amount of work they needed to complete to get keep their job and surf the net the rest of the time. It annoys the older people to see some kid get hired making twice what they did when they got hired who just surfs the net most of the day and doesn't know the DOS command to do this or that.

Webmaster

garv221 wrote:

"When I was a boy of fourteen, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be twenty-one, I was astonished at how much he had learned in seven years." ~Mark Twain, "Old Times on the Mississippi" Atlantic Monthly, 1874

Yes, why reinvent the wheel:

"The man who works and is not bored is never old."
~Pablo Casals

famosbrown

Didn't read all of the posts YET, so don't know if I'm repeating anyone.

I think the working mentality doesn't really have anything to do with age...it's definitely, in my opinion, child upbringing and maturity. My first job was at the age of 14, and I had to work hard for every bit of money I made since I was only 14. I also saw and respected how hard my parents worked. They also instilled a lot of values and foundations concerning this subject that I won't list here ...but anyway...I started to get kind of lazy and comfortable as I 16/17, then off to college, but after joining the military (reserve), went to Basic Training, got deployed overseas, so I received another rude awakening, got the discipline, had to grow up fast due to positions, and I've kept on going ever since. I think a lot of it has to do with the quality of life the youth has today. Back in my parents days of youth, they not only had to go to school, but had to work (hard labor), help with siblings, walking miles to school, appreciation for many things we take for granted or just expect today, etc.

My 2¢ .

sprkymrk

One thing I have noticed in these posts is that very few of the younger generation view themselves the same as the older guys view them. I think this comes from experience - the older ones have already been there and done that (in some cases), the younger ones only see things from where they are currently and so use that to judge by. Very few 18-25 year olds will see themselves as immature, while people over 40 may think that you are. This is normal, and in 10-15 years I'd like to see the same 18-25 year old guys post again from a new perspective. No one is right or wrong, it's simply perspective. At age 38, I'm still considered a young pup in some people's view.

garv221

Webmaster wrote:

"The man who works and is not bored is never old."
~Pablo Casals

"To retire is to die."

Webmaster

garv221 wrote:

Webmaster wrote:

"The man who works and is not bored is never old."
~Pablo Casals

"To retire is to die."

I'm starting to like this Pablo guy I read he made some good music besides saying true things.

Humper

Being 21 and all I can say that <20 are generally lazy. This is due to them not giving a **** (maturity). In the last 8 months I have become extremely motivated to do well in school and with my career ceritifications. I think my classmates are finally jumping on the band wagon as well...

crap I forgot my old pwd

I for one am 19 and I love to be worked like a dog. I always have to be doing several things at one time. I am proud of my work ethic and can say from my peers that YES, younger people ARE DEFINATELY lazy. I work so hard so that I don't fall into that crowd.

Plantwiz

Really just depends on the person, though it does seem that teens of today do not fight to get jobs, they think working 20 hours is a lot, and when they get called in or asked if they can work more hours they are doing YOU a H-U-G-E favor because their taking time out of hanging around doing nothing to have you pay them to do little more.

It is disgusting at how teens type/write or use incorrect grammar in correspondence. What is worse is they just don't seem to care to try to do better.

Did we have 'lazy' kids when I was a teen? Some. What are they doing today? Not much more then they once were. High Debt and living on lots of credit. Their choice.


Up until I got married, I always worked two or three jobs....it may explain why I married later in life, but nevertheless there was plenty of work available in an area where people really wanted work. It wasn't a lot of money, but I also wasn't a burden to society by collecting gov't funds (I was one of the fools paying into the system so others could sit home ).

I can still find people a generation older then myself who aren't worth a hill of beans, but I see many more who have a far better work ethic then my generation and light years ahead of the 20-somethings and teens.

I have a cousin who is 27 and thinks 'he' works hard because he has to work an occassional Saturday and 1 late evening a week....poor baby He also comes from a generation where his parents gave him everything and never taught him HOW to EARN things he needs and wants.

So for all the lazy people out there.....those who work can thank the parents of the lazy folks for not staying tough and preparing them for the world.

If you want to find good people you will. If you want to find slackers...you will.

bighornsheep

I must say I'm entirely and truly impressive by the number of people contributing to this thread, and the stories are humbling to say the least.

I'm 21 in my last year of a CS degree, I work for the school I attend as a database person. My last job I worked as pc tech. for about a year and a half. I've also done customer service, and sales previously. My first job was at a fast food joint where I started off cleaning tables and wiping counters, and eventually became a cash person, after a year and a half, I was promoted to be a manager.

Having said that, I still cant say that I'm hard working. I dont think I'm lazy, but procrastination definitely is my weakness, and I guess many would conclude they're just cousins.

I guess everyone needs their 'eye-opener', I was lucky and had 2. When I got into university, I realized I wasnt going fill in time sheets and order forms, and tell 15, 16 year olds what to do at work for the rest of my life, so I decided to 'move-on' to sales and customer service, my performance told me I wasnt very good at 'selling' stuff, and luck knocked on my door and I was literally given a job as a pc tech. After about 1.5 year, I realized that this is what I wanted, but I couldnt simply swap memory, motherboards, and install windows for the rest of my life either, so I started doing freelance networking jobs, and still do it till today.

Procrastination wasnt beneficial for me though...I'm stuck right now with trying to get my MCSA...and I do regret because I should have worked harder and started obtaining certs earlier...

In any case, I tend to give people the benefit of doubt that they're not 'lazy', I think that attitude has much to do with perception, when people are not aware of a need to try harder, they become lazy. Whether it's their parents, their procrastination, or their lack of ability, if they can not understand they need to put in effort, they become 'lazy'.

reloaded

I think something must be said for modern living conditions and the "entitlement mindset" many in my generation have from their birth. Living in the United States, many of us are given great chances at life. We can be anything we want to be, given the proper attitude, work ethic, and credit rating. However, I think many people don't realize that we in the west DON'T have to have it this good. Then we end up taking our high price life styles and standard of living for granted. IMO, this is a large reason why people are lazy.

Second, I thank my parents because they didn't give me anything I wanted when I was growing up. They taught me responsibility by taking away my allowance when I got a job, they made me pay for my own car and insurance, and taught me to have a good attitude about work and have a good work ethic. It was amazing to me how many people in school totalled their cars and their parents quickly bought them something new. Then the kid ended up getting drunk and totalling the new car. Horribly absurd I say.

Being in the military and having a steady salary has given me the opportunity to see all sorts of lazy people! People who complain, surf the web all day, and don't lift a pencil for anything have given me a completely new prospective on work ethic and why it's so important to work your butt off, especially at an early age. I'm not somebody who is content with the status quo. So many people I see all go through their life or jobs with nothing to shoot for and refuse to better themselves in ANY way. These people are my ultimate motivation for striving to succeed by making myself better - more education, more experiences, greater work ethic, and lifetime learning.

Kschwartz

i would have to say that young people on average today are lazy, have hardly any work ethic, and expect to be handed everything. I am 18 right now (lol) but I was raised by my grandparents who are old-school work-aholics that came from nothing. It might just be the area that im in(kinda bad) but half the kids I go to school with have about a elementry school education. I mean.. I am in a "college algebra" class and half the people didnt know what "sum" or "difference" or "quotion" meant in a small word problem. We were supposed to have 3 tests over 6 weeks.. its week 5 and we just had our first test last week because "no one" was ready. School starts at 8 am.. most people dont show up until 8:30 9 o'clock. And on top of that.. when they get there they either sleep, listen to music, or play around online. I for one dont really blame them, but our terrible school system and this BS crap about lowering the standards everytime some kid doesnt want to work. We need to take a lesson from japan or even most european countries and teach our kids to work and raise the standards a little bit. I dont see how most of these people graduated high school. Im pissed because i have hardly learned a damn thing in the 4 months i have been here because we spend a week on something that should take 2 hours and the only time i DO learn something its because i studied on my own... looks like the only way im gonna get certified on time is by becoming a paper tech and i really dont want to do that.


pfff.. ok im done venting.

bighornsheep

Kschwartz wrote:

I am in a "college algebra" class and half the people didnt know what "sum" or "difference" or "quotion" meant in a small word problem. We were supposed to have 3 tests over 6 weeks.. its week 5 and we just had our first test last week because "no one" was ready.

Are you from Ontario, Canada?
I remember when I took grade 12 advanced functions and relations...somebody thought that an Integral was a constant, because they saw the formula

integral of x dx = x^2 / 2

in any case, I think that there is indeed much to do with education, and how kids are brought up. I no longer hear about kids shooting hoops, or playing ball hockey, or going over to a friend's house for a project. Children and teens are now concerned about expensive clothes and shoes, or beating the next video game....

Kschwartz

bighornsheep wrote:

Kschwartz wrote:

I am in a "college algebra" class and half the people didnt know what "sum" or "difference" or "quotion" meant in a small word problem. We were supposed to have 3 tests over 6 weeks.. its week 5 and we just had our first test last week because "no one" was ready.

Are you from Ontario, Canada?
I remember when I took grade 12 advanced functions and relations...somebody thought that an Integral was a constant, because they saw the formula

integral of x dx = x^2 / 2

in any case, I think that there is indeed much to do with education, and how kids are brought up. I no longer hear about kids shooting hoops, or playing ball hockey, or going over to a friend's house for a project. Children and teens are now concerned about expensive clothes and shoes, or beating the next video game....

well, im a hardcore gamer and proud of it .. but people have to teach their kids when to play and when to work.. if not the parents then the teachers.. but in the US if a teacher disciplines a kid.. its called abuse... so that leaves no one to teach kids any sense of discipline or work ethic... kind of sad and stressful thinking about whats gonna happen to this country in about 20 years.

and btw.. i have no clue what that math is you put up there lol... canada does better than US in education also.. we are one of the dumbest, laziest countries ever. I teach half of my MS Workstation class basic **** thats just common sense... they think I know everything before i get to class but the thing is.. its just common sense problem solving.. or barely thinking critically. Alot of them still dont know how to get to windows explorer because they never try to do it on their own.. they just say hey kevin.. whats windows explorer again? and then they forget it 5 mins later. Same with device manager... command prompt... anything in the control panel pretty much lol.. it gets very frustrating and annoying that im not really bettering myself here.