Which Online university to choose?

Dev13

Hi,
I have been in the IT industry for the last 6 years. Completed by Associate but never bothered to complete bachelors. Now, I am planning on completing my bachelors in Computer science. Started looking for a good online program. Checked Devry, AIU online , Phoenix etc...Most of these charge around $500 per unit. Narrowed down to 2 universities which are reasonable in terms of fee.
Western Governors university - www.wgu.edu - Pros - You can earn 6 certificates while completing your degree. Fee is just ~$3000 per semester. Cons - Couldn't find many reviews about quality of education and support.
Baker colege online - www.bakeronline.com - Pros - Same fee as WGU but has curriculum based on hours rather than units. Cons- No certificates earned just the bachelors degree.
So, any of you been a student of any of these universities and would like to share thoughts/experience. Which one to pick or is there an even better one???

NinjaBoy

All I have to say is watch out when choosing an online Uni, there are alot of degree/diploma mills out there check out the following sites:

Oregon Unaccredited colleges and
Wiki

However that's not say that all online Uni's are degree/diploma mills, a couple of online Uni's that I would consider would be:

Western Governors university (www.wgu.edu) - E-mails from Comptia recommend this one.
Bellevue Uni (http://www.bellevue.edu/) - Certmag recommends this one
Open Uni (http://www.open.ac.uk/) - the most popular and most used online Uni in the UK.

Sorry haven't heard of Baker colege online.

If you have your evenings free, you could try an alternative: evening classes, get your degree/diploma in the evenings, that's how I achieved mine.

Hope this helps.

-Ken

silentc1015

I'm enrolled in the University of Phoenix right now. I also have 6 years in IT and never finished my BS in comp sci from a traditional school. I got around 90 credits, had to move around, and just couldn't finish the old-fashioned way. So, I'm finishing out at UOP. My credits transferred, and it looks like I'll be graduating within 6 or 8 months.

As far as the quality of the school, it sure isn't very demanding. It is something you have to put time into on a daily basis, but the classes are all very easy. It certainly isn't a diploma mill. According to my dilligent research it is accredited by the important accreditors. It is quite expensive expensive, and I don't feel as though I'm getting my money's worth. However, I'm just in it to get the degree, and I was very close before enrolling. So, it concerns me very little.

The classes require almost daily attention, but very little cumulative time and effort. It depends on the instructor, but the assignments seem to be left very open to interpretation. There are not strict guidelines on completing writing assignments and projects. The instructors vary in their quality as well. In short, there are many very small and easy assignments due by particular deadlines throughout the week.

Ultimately, if you're just looking to get a degree ASAP, I would recommend it. If you actually want to get a great education in the process, look elsewhere.

If you decide to look elsewhere, be careful. Ninjaboy is right. There ARE a lot of diploma mills out there. I hope all that helps you.

eltoro

There are many traditional Universities (Brick & Mortar) that offer some programs completely online.

Depaul University offers BA in Computing Online http://www.snl.depaul.edu/prospective/ba_computing.asp?print=true

National Louis University offers BS in MIS Online
http://www.nl.edu/academics/cmb/bsmis/features.cfm

There are several others but I don't have the list. I am currently enrolled in National Louis University and should finish by Dec.2007. Exellent program!! I am very pleased with it. Even though I am taking the online version, it is not different from the in class. Same Professors, same curriculum, same assignments and definitely same degree.

There is also no residency fees. so you don't have to live in that state to enroll

sprkymrk

I have to agree with everyone here so far. I am actually looking into WGU right now and have an appointment to speak with one of their reps on Tuesday. I also remember WGU was something Webmaster had looked at in the past.

The other one I actually attended for a year was Westwood College Online. It was very similar to silentc1015's description of Pheonix - you had to give a lot of attention to it on a daily basis, but it wasn't too terribly hard. Instructor quality also varied. Their accounting really was terrible - which is the main reason I left and won't go back. The whole time I was there I was on a "pay-as-I-go" basis which should have made it easy. They tell me how much next term is going to cost and I send them the money, like I said easy. But the whole time they kept sending me emails about updating crap or I'll be in danger of losing my federal loans and then I'd get voice mails telling me to call them asap or my loan status will be in trouble, etc. I'd have to call 5 different people and send 10 emails every new term to make them understand I DON'T HAVE A LOAN YOU IMBESSALS! I'M PAYING CASH! So anyway, they now claim that I owe them 5 grand, which I don't, so I'm not going back. That's why I am checking out WGU.

JDMurray

I am attending Capella University (www.capella.edu), but for my Masters degree, and I have no knowledge or experience with their BSIT program. However, if it's the same quality as what I am experiencing at the graduate level, it's worth considering.

The first place you go to research distance leaning degree is John Bear's site at http://www.degree.net/.

Articles on diploma mills:
http://www.degree.net/html/diploma_mills.html
http://www.quackwatch.org/04ConsumerEducation/dm0.html

royal

After seeing this thread, I decided to check out WGU. I only briefly looked on their website, however. At the current moment, I'm extremely busy finishing my MCSE, then my job wants me to focus on VBscript/Powershell, Project Management, and MCSE specializations. Eventually, I want to go back and get a masters degree.

As a consultant, I want to have both a technical and business oriented background. I wanted to get a degree in business, but not go for a 2nd bachelor's. I want to get a master's in business. I wanted something that was more for business/it oriented and not full fledged business.

One thing that sparked my interest while at the WGU site is the following degree:
http://www.wgu.edu/business/master_business_administration_IT_degree.asp

They have 2 business degrees: One for Business Administration and the other for Master of Business Administration—Information Technology Management Emphasis. This is definitely a plus and when I finish all the stuff my company wants me to finish, I will definitely be looking into WGU for the Business/IT Emphasis degree.

supertechCETma

You might want to check out:

Colorado Tech Online School of Information Technology

http://www.ctuonline.edu/degree_programs/it.asp

or

National University online programs

http://www.nu.edu/Academics/OnlineEducation.html

Dev13

I very much liked Western Governers university, but they have one of the worst support i seen , and that is holding me back.
First time i called, operator said no advisor from computer science is in yet. Call later. Called later still no one in. Looks like they have only 2 guys and only one of them is more experienced and hardly in.

Called again next day, this time their phone lines were not working, so couldn't transfer to an advisor.

Called again. Fortunately, spoke to an advisor ( some new guy) this time but he himself didn't sound very confident about his program. Mostly answered yes or no to my questions.

Finally, got a followup call from an advisor after 2 weeks and got some information about the program and how it works. But, that was it. I have been trying to get hold of him since then. Not returning my emails, voice mails. If this is the experience now, how can i expect anything better once i become a student. That's why i posted here to see if anyone had experience as student of WGU and know how Mentor system works and how responsive they are. Do they also suck..like the advisors???

oldbarney

WGU is a good school according to some of the feedback I've seen. Baker also has received numerous positive reviews. Both are regionally accredited. A good place to search for feedback on both is http://forums.degreeinfo.com/index.php in the "Distance Learning Discussions" forum. Use the search function.

I looked long and hard at distance education for an IT master of science degree primarily because of my long and sometimes insane work hours (i.e. was called in at 11:30 pm last night to deal with a mini disaster). Luckily, a small state university with a branch approximately 60 miles away fits the bill nicely. Although the entire degree can be completed online, I have attended a few evening classes on campus. The 2x weekly drive is painful.

During my last job search, a couple HR people told me that while an accredited degree is important, perception speaks volumes. The main point of this perception is "time and place". For example, living and working in Oklahoma from 2003-2006 and earning a degree from a university in New York immediately tells a prospective employer that this applicant earned his/her degree via "mail order".

This is not to say that online education is not gaining greater acceptance among those hiring. It is. But my point is that at the end of the day, for-profit institutions still carry a stigma associated with obtaining an alternative education. That dream job may hinge on the educational perspective of some HR rep or CIO, so why risk it?

In my opinion, look at a traditional "Brick & Mortar" institution in your state or even a nearby state that offers an online IT degree. A great number of them - literally hundreds - are out there. The online/distance tuition at these schools is usually cheaper than University of Phoenix, DeVry, AIU or many of the other for-profit schools. Furthmore, most have very generous transfer policies.

Fort Hayes State University, University of Texas-Brownsville, East Carolina University, Amberton University, Park University, Rogers State College, Murray State University, UMass, to name a few, all offer IT bachelors or BBA/IT degrees via distance. Dev13, I'd venture to say, there's one reasonably close to you in which you could complete a BS/BA degree via distance.

Whatever school you choose, please remember that regional accreditation is paramount.

hitonit

I have been attending Western Governors University for about 18 months. It is a non-profit school and cheaper than a lot of the other onlines schools out there. That is one of the reasons I choose the school. I will also graduate with close to 11 certifications and a degree so I can't complain about that. I would recomend that you check it out.

moss12

Why would you want to waste money on online university would it be better to go to public university instead ?.


Whats the difference between online university and public university ? please clarify for me someone.

JDMurray

moss12 wrote:

Whats the difference between online university and public university ? please clarify for me someone.

The main differences are time, convenience, and physical access. Many full-time working people find it very inconvenient to go to a university after leaving their job for the day. An online learning environment allows you to attend school anytime from your home, office, Starbucks, or wherever there is a place for you, your books and laptop, and an Internet connection. You decide when, where, and how you want to study. You may also want to get a degree in an area of learning that none of your local brick-and-mortar universities offer. With online universities, you do not need physical access to the actual campus.

The downside of online learning is that you are responsible for much more of your own organization and motivation. You don't have the cycle and rhythm of going to classes at the same time every week, seeing the same people, talking to the instructor, etc. You must decide when to get up from in front of the TV and study--by yourself--at your computer.

Another downside is that online is not everyone's best style of learning. If you are a person who prefers taking written tests, writing study notes by listening to lectures, and having face-to-face contact with your instructor and fellow learners, online learning is not for you. Online classes consist primarily of reading, writing, and research--mostly by yourself. If you have any exams they will be open-book, and any "lectures" are Computer-Based Training materials. All of your contact with your instructor and fellow learners is via Webboard forums (like this one) or email.

To me, these seem to be the only significant differences between online and face-to-face learning.

bighornsheep

jdmurray wrote:

The downside of online learning is.....

I've been thinking about this route briefly....I'm currently finishing my bachelor degree the traditional way, and I'm debating whether I want to pursue graduate opportunities.

would you say the quality of learning is compromised in any way?

and my other concern is the costs...since US education is different than it is in Canada...what is the usual cost for graduate studies in a traditional institution? some of these masters program for an online school sound a little bit "ridiculus" compared to the costs in Canda..

typically in canda:
College: ~10000 CND for 3 yrs
Bachelor: 20000 - 25000 CND for 4 yrs
Masters: 25000 - 30000 CND for 1-2 yrs

so how would these compare in the US? and are the online schools necessarily cheaper/more expensive than traditional schools in US?

JDMurray

bighornsheep wrote:

would you say the quality of learning is compromised in any way?

Do you mean in the way that your quality of learning is compromised by attending a local community college rather than Yale or Harvard? Quality (and price) vary with online universities just as it does with brick-and-motor universities. This is why you only look at accredited universities that are recognized as superior (and most costly) institutions of learning. Spending $10K on a quick and crappy degree is a much more wasteful and "expensive" than spending $25K on a solid and respected degree.

bighornsheep wrote:

are the online schools necessarily cheaper/more expensive than traditional schools in US?

I think that most online schools have lower overhead than campus-based schools, and have incentives to offer very competitive prices when compared to traditional universities with a similar curriculum. I find it very difficult to do an accurate comparison of price-versus-quality because of so many qualitative factors. You must be very careful not to do "apples and oranges" comparisons, such as comparing the tuition of your local community college to an online university that has a post-graduate program. This is one area where Web sites like degree.net really help out.

bighornsheep

very true, quality and price has directly correlation...but as an outsider, I'm wondering about the implications of the price tags...

perhaps it's different in the US because the big schools are really really big on an international level, but is there an average price? leaving yale or harvard out of consideration, how much does a degree cost in the US?

I guess I'm asking for the costs to be put into perspective....since 25k at a accredited university could mean a whole bunch of things.

Just like if I were to say that an Engineering Degree at Univ. of Tor. costs 30000 may sound cheap for US if most of the bachelor's costs 50000, but it's actually expensive since bachelor's degree typically costs 20000-25000 here.

in terms of quality of learning...when I attend classes at a campus, there's certain quality that I can expect because I know the professor who will be teaching, and I can research his background in the area, the school also publishes creditials about the faculty that I can look into. How is it like for an online university? For all I know, it could be John Doe with a degree in History who is teaching Information Systems. What does the school offer besides a book list, a bunch of videos, and a degree at the end of the program?

thanks for your comments in advance, it's helping me understand more and it's just that online education has a negative ring to me especially with all the frauds that are around...

Dev13

I have attended a local community college to complete my lower divisional courses for Computer science major(60 units). I must say, i am am firm believer of attending classes and listerning to the lecture. Infact some of instructors were so good that you dont' need to read the text book at all. Just listen to their lecture. If i had the time i would prefer campus learning.
But, life not always what to want, so got no other option. So, i decided to go for online universities like Western governors which include certifications in their curruculum. This way you kill 2 birds with one stone. And dont' forget no campus university offers this kind of curriculum. Most universties , even online like Devry, Phoenix, AIU, make you take bunch of useless cources, like Geology, Biology, physics etc which has nothing to do with Computer science. So, only thing i need to decided is, whether WGU is the best university. So, far i didn't have good experience with their Advisors service. They don't return my calls or respond to my emails immediately. So, this is what is scaring me.
I am posting this to find out if there is another universtiy which offers similar kind of curriculum as WGU. I know there are but which one...anyone? ???

Okason

Hi all, I am finding this tread quite interesting because I am on the verge of chosing an University for a degree program. Matter of fact I have settled for National University here in San Diego, CA for their CIS program and they just wrote me to say they have offered me an admission. The things that influenced my decision are the content of there program,their regionally accreditation,they are local and also I have a cousin who goes there and recommends them and of course there commercials is a factor too...lol. However I have all along had my concerns which is how to integrate the program with working on my certs, now add that to a newly married home...!


Now the WGU program IT program Networks Design and Management Emphasis http://www.wgu.edu/online_it_degrees/information_technology_degree_networks_design.asp does sound very intersting to me, but Old Barney has a point of one living in for instance San Diego, CA and getting a degree from another state in this case Utah.

The program I want to do in National is CIS http://www.nu.edu/Academics/Schools/SOET/ComputerScienceandIn/degrees/620-416.html

Now with this tread going on I am now debating whether to go with WGU and net about 8 certs along the way or go with NU and work on my certs on my own.
I would mention also that due to my current job schedule even if I choose NU I have to begin my classes online until my job schedule changes which could be several months.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

oldbarney

Dev13: I can essentially agree that courses in subject areas like geology, biology and physics hold little to nothing in common with systems analysis or database management, and can appear useless. Some classes are just horribly boring with dreadful homework and extremely painful research papers.

On the other hand, when considering the much larger picture, science and liberal arts classes potentially provide us with a broader appreciation of life. A physical world reportedly exists outside of our monitors contrary to that which some of us are inclined to admit - myself included. Nothing is wrong about specialization. Yet, somewhere out there, a CIO exists with a passion for Chauncer's "The Canterbury Tales" - in Middle English, no less - during his off time. He's liable to believe that you're the coolest thing since USB drives if you can relate to him about that subject. Education = good. Thinking and creating represent two actions responsible for bringing mankind this far along.

One more comment: Bad experiences with advisors prior to enrollment can certainly turn a person off about a certain school. Based on my experiences with undergrad and grad schools, many advisors rarely return calls or e-mail from people who haven't yet registered or applied. They are usually overwhelmed by their current students. Some advisors want to make appointments, even for telephone calls. From what I read, WGU is a good school. If you really want to attend WGU, have patience. Perhaps try contacting admissions and let them know you want to speak with an advisor. Be polite.

okason: The main problem I see with virtual/online/distance learning in CA using my approach is the inherent lack thereof. For some reason, few accredited "brick and mortar" universities in the state confer four-year degrees outside of campus compared to, say, North Carolina, Florida or Texas. State schools with distance degrees (i.e. CSU-Domiguez Hills) offer little along the lines of a dedicated IT degree. I think, although could be wrong, that Golden Gate University has a decent amount of IT-related distance learning courses and degrees - at a high price. A number of unaccredited universities in California offer IT-related degrees, but one must be careful.

Having said that, Stanford has a cool online security course for $399 which would certainly stand a good chance at making a resume stand out a little more than others.

http://scpd.stanford.edu/scpd/courses/ProEd/CompSec/default.asp

Good luck to both of you.

filkenjitsu

My recommendation for Accredation and Price would be Fort Hays State University. They are a Brick and Mortar University in Kansas. They are a real school, have a college football team, basketball, etc. They are regionally accredited and offer an Bachelors degree in Computer networking and Telecommunications. They transfer in credit and you work on your CCNA and CCNP along the way to completing your degree. I think they have some insane price like 130$ per credit hour. SOOOO LOW when you look at ITT and Devri charging around 360$ per credit hour.

Dilbert0144

The fact of the mater is a U of P degree is a valid degree that is worth a "something". Most HR departments hesitate to accept it and if they do usually offer a lower salary. Don't get me wrong there's nothing wrong with that. If I had a degree from MIT or Harvard I would expect more money and more companies knocking at my door. So if you get one from U of P, DeVry, ITT, etc. you should expect less. A couple of states have made some legal rules about listing online degrees on resumes (New Jersey and one other state at last count) but U of P is not technically a fully online university although 98% of all it's student work is done online. So that's good. The bad news is online classes are a lot easier for unscrupulous students to get through. Think about it...No labs, no verification that a student signed up for the course is actually doing the work (not his buddy or submitting course work from someone who took the class the year before) and all test and "verification" of knowledge learned is open book, open internet. Also most professors there make it a point "not" to have papers checked for plagiarism, so if you want to get good grades learn to Google well.

A-Mart

What legal rules does New jersey have about online schools?

phantasm

Dilbert0144 wrote:

The fact of the mater is a U of P degree is a valid degree that is worth a "something". Most HR departments hesitate to accept it and if they do usually offer a lower salary. Don't get me wrong there's nothing wrong with that. If I had a degree from MIT or Harvard I would expect more money and more companies knocking at my door. So if you get one from U of P, DeVry, ITT, etc. you should expect less. A couple of states have made some legal rules about listing online degrees on resumes (New Jersey and one other state at last count) but U of P is not technically a fully online university although 98% of all it's student work is done online. So that's good. The bad news is online classes are a lot easier for unscrupulous students to get through. Think about it...No labs, no verification that a student signed up for the course is actually doing the work (not his buddy or submitting course work from someone who took the class the year before) and all test and "verification" of knowledge learned is open book, open internet. Also most professors there make it a point "not" to have papers checked for plagiarism, so if you want to get good grades learn to Google well.

I understand what your saying. I currently attend DeVry for my BS, I actually goto class. I don't do my degree online. Some schools are hybrids which is nice, but don't assume that all of the non-tradiaitional schools are simply online.

sir_creamy_

Dilbert0144 wrote:

The bad news is online classes are a lot easier for unscrupulous students to get through. Think about it...No labs, no verification that a student signed up for the course is actually doing the work (not his buddy or submitting course work from someone who took the class the year before) and all test and "verification" of knowledge learned is open book, open internet.

Amen. If Alice and Bob are equally qualified but Alice went to an online university and Bob took the traditional route, I'm taking Bob every time. Employers are fully aware that the life skills you learn at university can't be taught through a monitor.

BigTone

sir_creamy_ wrote:

Dilbert0144 wrote:

The bad news is online classes are a lot easier for unscrupulous students to get through. Think about it...No labs, no verification that a student signed up for the course is actually doing the work (not his buddy or submitting course work from someone who took the class the year before) and all test and "verification" of knowledge learned is open book, open internet.

Amen. If Alice and Bob are equally qualified but Alice went to an online university and Bob took the traditional route, I'm taking Bob every time. Employers are fully aware that the life skills you learn at university can't be taught through a monitor.

Without even giving "Alice" a chance? I went to school with plenty of people who partied their way through college and barely graduated. Plus I work with some really smart/talented people that didn't even graduate any college. I think you shouldn't judge someone based on where their school is located.

Let the girl sit for the interview at least before you shoot her in the head.

Mrock4

BigTone wrote:

I think you shouldn't judge someone based on where their school is located.

Let the girl sit for the interview at least before you shoot her in the head.

Amen. You could really be missing out on some true talent by not looking closer.

dynamik

Dilbert0144 wrote:

The bad news is online classes are a lot easier for unscrupulous students to get through. Think about it...No labs, no verification that a student signed up for the course is actually doing the work (not his buddy or submitting course work from someone who took the class the year before) and all test and "verification" of knowledge learned is open book, open internet. Also most professors there make it a point "not" to have papers checked for plagiarism, so if you want to get good grades learn to Google well.

That's a broad generalization (even if it does apply to some schools). I've taken a good deal of IDL (Independent Distance-Learning) courses at the U of M, and this isn't the way it is at all. These instructors care about plagiarism a great deal, and they will boot you out without hesitation if they can prove you plagiarized. Some courses have allowed the tests to be taken online while others require me to stop in 2-3 times over the course of the semester to take proctored tests. Even though the online ones allowed books and notes, they weren't easy. The questions were worded so that you needed an understanding of the material in order to do well. They weren't simply asking you to define terms that you could look up in the glossary. I know that your statement is geared towards for-profit schools that offer online education exclusively, but I just wanted to state that I believe online education can be valuable if implemented properly.

sir_creamy_

BigTone wrote:

I went to school with plenty of people who partied their way through college and barely graduated.

Yup. And if I can find a more qualified graduate from an online university I'll take that person. I'm not saying the traditional route conquers all. I'm saying I'd prefer it over an equally-qualified graduate of an online university.

BigTone wrote:

Plus I work with some really smart/talented people that didn't even graduate any college.

As have I. That has nothing to do with my Alice and Bob scenario.

BigTone wrote:

I think you shouldn't judge someone based on where their school is located.

Yup. Exactly what I said. Given two equally qualified candidates I'll take the candidate who surivived the traditional route. Why? Group project-work and real-time presentations among other things. You'd be surprised how important human-interaction can be in the work place Not going to learn that through a multiple-choice exam, my friend.

0 for 2.

oldbarney

A-Mart wrote:

What legal rules does New jersey have about online schools?

I'm unsure about "legal rules", but many accredited colleges and universities in NJ offer degrees via online or distance learning.

Rutgers

New Jersey Institute of Technology

Stevens Institute of Technology

Fairleigh Dickinson University

Rowan University

New Jersey City University

Centenary College

Thomas Edison State College

oldbarney

Dilbert0144 wrote:

...A couple of states have made some legal rules about listing online degrees on resumes (New Jersey and one other state at last count) ....

This statement is incorrect. New Jersey, Oregon, Texas, and a few other states consider it a misdemeanor when attempting to use an unaccredited degree for employment purposes. Accreditation remains one of the most misunderstood topics in the United States. Accredited college degrees earned via distance learning are 100% legal in every state in the Union.

BigTone

sir_creamy_ wrote:

BigTone wrote:

I think you shouldn't judge someone based on where their school is located.

Yup. Exactly what I said. Given two equally qualified candidates I'll take the candidate who surivived the traditional route. Why? Group project-work and real-time presentations among other things. You'd be surprised how important human-interaction can be in the work place Not going to learn that through a multiple-choice exam, my friend.

0 for 2.

After previously working at an online university I can state 3 things - Online work has come a long way, while you might not be in front of a group of people there are still presentations and group work done. There is a lot of different technology now that really brings the students together. 2 - The exams aren't just multiple choice, many of the tests are proctored and its just like any other exam anyone would take at a brick and mortar school.
3. I'm not going to state a percent because I don't know for sure but I know a majority of the students we got were older students. Most of these students have life experience, they have what you call human-interaction. We didn't see a whole lot of 18-19 year old students coming in, but 30+ year olds coming in after having worked for a while and realized that they either wanted or needed to continue their education to move up in the world.

I said you shouldn't judge someone based on their school, and you agreed, and then you said you'll take the candiated or went the traditional route every time? Either you are contradicting yourself or I didn't read it right.