How many of you have had Success in IT without a Degree

mysql1988

And when you say you have had success, what is your "definition" of that success. I am saying this because I now believe the time is going to come where people without college degrees won't even be looked at again even at places where they sell computers like bestbuy, compusa, etc..............

I am yet to meet someone who doesn't have a college degree but make over 6 figures.

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Cessation

mysql1988 wrote:

And when you say you have had success, hat is your "definition" of that success. I am saying this because I now believe the time is going to come where people without college degrees won't even be looked at again even at places where they sell computers like bestbuy, compusa, etc..............

I am yet to meet someone who doesn't have a college degree but make over 6 figures.

To my understanding, both my "IT Manager" and our "Network Manager" (yes they are different for some reason) both did not graduate from college and for sure are making more then 100k.
I guess im following in someones footsteps. I love Certs because for some reason I never really did all that great in school but I am yet to fail an exam.

I also wouldn't say success' is making over 6 figures. I would consider myself successful when im doing what i want (System Admin or Engineer) hopefully making no less than 65k.

GoodLuck

mysql1988

Cessation wrote:

mysql1988 wrote:

And when you say you have had success, hat is your "definition" of that success. I am saying this because I now believe the time is going to come where people without college degrees won't even be looked at again even at places where they sell computers like bestbuy, compusa, etc..............

I am yet to meet someone who doesn't have a college degree but make over 6 figures.

To my understanding, both my "IT Manager" and our "Network Manager" (yes they are different for some reason) both did not graduate from college and for sure are making more then 100k.
I guess im following in someones footsteps. I love Certs because for some reason I never really did all that great in school but I am yet to fail an exam.

I also wouldn't say success' is making over 6 figures. I would consider myself successful when im doing what i want (System Admin or Engineer) hopefully making no less than 65k.

GoodLuck

Your manager probabily has an advanced cert like CCNP or CCIE or CSSP

Cessation

mysql1988 wrote:

Cessation wrote:

mysql1988 wrote:

And when you say you have had success, hat is your "definition" of that success. I am saying this because I now believe the time is going to come where people without college degrees won't even be looked at again even at places where they sell computers like bestbuy, compusa, etc..............

I am yet to meet someone who doesn't have a college degree but make over 6 figures.

To my understanding, both my "IT Manager" and our "Network Manager" (yes they are different for some reason) both did not graduate from college and for sure are making more then 100k.
I guess im following in someones footsteps. I love Certs because for some reason I never really did all that great in school but I am yet to fail an exam.

I also wouldn't say success' is making over 6 figures. I would consider myself successful when im doing what i want (System Admin or Engineer) hopefully making no less than 65k.

GoodLuck

Your manager probabily has an advanced cert like CCNP or CCIE or CSSP

Wrong... I know for a fact that he has no certs.
In fact he worked Construction previously.
Flippin crazy huh...
(although the Network Mgr was the son of the president for Siemons cell phones... ever heard of them?)

Diddycoon

I've been a service engineer for 5 years now with a salary of 35k and a company car.
Not bad for a ungraded school drop out ah.

It's not always down to what you know but who you know.

mengo17

Diddycoon wrote:

I've been a service engineer for 5 years now with a salary of 35k and a company car.
Not bad for a ungraded school drop out ah.

It's not always down to what you know but who you know.

I would say that TODAY, the most important thing is "who you know".

addiktion

I agree with the who you know portion. Honestly it pays to get to know people in high places. I'm sure if we were buddies with these visionary men we would get hookups not only by their knowledge but by their kindness. Do you think Bill Gates is going to let his buddy work at burger king? No not if you asked him if he had any openings. But no one can be a network engineer without some type of school.

It is rather crazy to me though that someone could get a manager position in a big IT company without some knowledge of the field or some degree/certification showing you he even knows what hes talking about.

Cessation

addiktion wrote:

It is rather crazy to me though that someone could get a manager position in a big IT company without some knowledge of the field or some degree/certification showing you he even knows what hes talking about.

My manager actually started at the same position I am at right now I think about 7 years ago.
I personally now have 1 year of Desktop support at the company I'm at right now and 3 years of Desktop support/Geeksquad (BestBuy).

Inc

I have seen a lot of examples, where people are being successful in IT, without having any degree and or certs.

So it really comes down to two things:

1. getting a foot in the door
2. proving you are eligible to stay

for 1. people network helps a lot - "who you know"

for 2. only you can help yourself.

And most of those people whom I know, work in banking industry (administrators, auditors, developers) - where no skiving (usually) will go.

sprkymrk

While I agree with the "who you know" answer, keep in mind that the right skills, the right motivation, and the right "people skills" will often get you the contacts you need with the right people. That's how you get a job by "who you know".

In other words, it's not always the fact that your buddy's dad owns a company, or your uncle is a VP in a company. Instead, by having a professional attitude, positive outlook, and good networking you can make contact with the right people over time and thus you just happen to have a whole book filled with the names of people considered "who you know" people.

Build bridges, don't burn them.
Be sincere, not fake. Anyone can tell the difference between a car salesman who wants to be your friend until you sign the check and a real friend.

Megadeth4168

I am one who has been blessed with finding a great job without having a degree. I got the job by proofing myself to my employers though.... I started out as a part time employee making only $7 per hour. After 3 years a full time job opened up and I got the job. I would have never gotten the job had the employer not known my abilities from the past 3 years working for them.

I'm finally back in school these days but I'm only taking a class at a time. I know that I can't move up much higher than where I am at now without a degree.

garv221

mysql1988 wrote:

I am yet to meet someone who doesn't have a college degree but make over 6 figures.

I know a few, one is an IT Director without any certs or a degree pulling in around $120k. I know a few Sr. Network Engineers who bring over $100k . Another guy (not in IT) brings in a cool 7 figures a year.

To say people without degrees will not even be looked at is not reasonable. A degree is great thing to have and everyone should try to obtain it but like anything comparative it can only take someone so far. I believe the key to success is hard work and seeing through goals set for yourself. "It's not what you know but who you know" doesn't mean people under qualified get jobs through a connection, it means qualified people who know people get jobs and stay in work. Relationships like that are established through hard work, people are drawn to people who have visions and are on point with their career. It is fun knowing people in the industry, you want to surround yourself with co workers you like.

SRTMCSE

I'd like to consider myself pretty successful. I'm 22 and have been working in the IT field since 2003. I'm currently the network administrator for a large (1000+ employees) nonprofit operating nursing homes and assisted living facilities. I started in 2003 as a tech support rep for a multinational IT bootcamp, then went to a local bank as a Network Admin. and finally here just this pass November.

No college degree, just certs and experience. I finally started school last year and am finishing up my first semester, ultimately moving onto a Bacherlors and hopefully a Masters.

Ed Rooney

I know a couple of guys over 100K with no degrees. Both are at about 105K.

It helps, but it's not a deal breaker as most jobs say "or equivalent experience."

Ye Gum Noki

So many factors. As an IT manager and hirer, I will tell you that THE most important thing is the skill set. I can't tell you how many resumes from brand new college grads that I just toss because they have NO practical experience. I run a small shop (less than 10 folks) and I just can't afford to be a trainer. I need folks that can come in, sit down and start helping on their first day! What I want for a Windows Server person is someone who has some time working with Active Directory and Group Policy. If they have that experience PLUS an MCSE then I NEED them and I will pay them as much as I possible can to get them AND keep them.

What a college degree ( and I have an MS in Management) shows me is that the person can stick with something for 4 years (or more) and that they have the ability to learn. A lot of the degreed applicants that I end up not hiring, have Information Systems MANAGEMENT degrees. They want to manage systems right out of college and except for rare cases, most do not have a clue about how to manage real world Information Systems OR even work on them. Smart folks, but they need to get their hands dirty some where along the way.

Also, when hiring, I look at the whole person. Any DUIs? I'm not hiring you, because I need you to drive a company vehicle. Felony? Forget it. Failed a drug test? Forget it. Bad credit history? Depends on how bad. Dress bad for the interview? No! Drugs or Pot? Hah! You wouldn't believe how many different things we test for AND if the test results are "sterilized," we won't hire you. I won't hire a cigerette smoker because they spend too much time smoking outside. And it is legal to ask that in an interview. I also ask applicants to take a technical test to make sure they aren't "fudging" on their resumes. If they are, I won't hire them.

To summarize, I think most Tech managers that run shops that support businesses want experience more than any other qualification, certs tend to point toward that experience and degrees don't unless it an extremely technical degree.

My two cents,

Mr. Ye

Ye Gum Noki

SRTMCSE wrote:

I'd like to consider myself pretty successful. I'm 22 and have been working in the IT field since 2003. I'm currently the network administrator for a large (1000+ employees) nonprofit operating nursing homes and assisted living facilities. I started in 2003 as a tech support rep for a multinational IT bootcamp, then went to a local bank as a Network Admin. and finally here just this pass November.

No college degree, just certs and experience. I finally started school last year and am finishing up my first semester, ultimately moving onto a Bacherlors and hopefully a Masters.

And THAT is the way to do it.

Mr. Ye

RATTLERMAN

Just looking at everyone's post and there are some very good points. What it all boils down to is determination. You have to have a linebacker mentality towards the IT game because its hard but its fair. I dont claim to be a IT guru but i can talk shop with the best of them. I tend to focus on the soft skills. Depending on your point of view
you have to be a complete package out here these days. You cant just say "hire me cause i have this so snd so degreee" You have to be able to prove what you know. I believe it takes a combination of certs,experience ,networking and just plain old fashioned luck to make it out here. Its post like these that keep me going towards my goals.

Good luck to everyone and keep on grindin

AGILE.MOBILE..HOSTILE

Slowhand

SRTMCSE wrote:

No college degree, just certs and experience. I finally started school last year and am finishing up my first semester, ultimately moving onto a Bacherlors and hopefully a Masters.

I'm working the very same way. The job I currently have I got by putting myself out there, making sure my MCSA was upfront and prominent on my resume, and then I went in and gave it my all in my interview. Prior to this job, (which happens to be as a systems engineer at a datacenter/ISP,) I did a contract job at a Kaiser, doing some helpdesk and before that I worked at a CompUSA techshop for about a year and a half. I make about $35,000 right now, I'm pumping away at learning more, getting more certs, and making sure this period of experience counts for as much as possible.

In the meantime, I'm working my way through school. In the coming semester, I'll be finishing up two A.S. degrees, one in networking and one in web development. After that, I'll be continuing my way along towards an Electrical Engineering & Computer Science degree, (B.S. first, then probably work on a Master's). It'll be a long road, I'll probably have to stop working altogether at some point or another in order to get some of those 18-unit semesters out of the way before I can make the transfer from the community college over to UC Berkeley. What I'm hoping is that I'll be able to work for the school(s) at some point, or maybe score some contract work during the summers, as opposed to being stuck working retail again.

drakhan2002

You can be very successful in the IT industry without a degree. Some of the best technicians I know do not have degrees - but a lot of experience (some don't even have certs).

However, something can be said about a degree. A degree shows perspective employers that you have the ability "stick with something...to see it through." (if nothing else). I personally do not know of anyone who is in top level IT management without a degree and in *most* cases an advanced degree. The person who is the VP of my department (I am in the Information Security and Risk department) of the IT division has a Masters degree and a Law degree (she's a lawyer to boot!). Keep in mind, the IT division I work in has over 1,000 employees - the company has over 23,000 employees total.

Perhaps in smaller organizations, you can get away with working your way up through the ranks with experience and certs...but in larger organizations, they are going to look at a degree. It is expected. I don't have much experience in smaller or medium organizations - my entire career has been with Fortune 500 enterprises (Toyota, Jacobs Engineering, Proctor & Gamble, and now one of the largest banks in the U.S.).

This has been my experience in the 15 years of IT I've seen. I am not saying it is right or wrong as to who has leadership positions in IT - it just what *I've* seen.

I am sure whatever you pursue in IT will be rewarding financially, whether you get a degree or not.

keenon

i'll chime in on this one as i have been scarce here..

i have worked up to the top (denoting that i started at the bottom) without a degree or as much as a college class.

i'm currently adding more skills through certs with hands on experience. I don't believe that it take a degree to make it in IT as i have met a bunch with them and make less than i do.

its all about your drive in any field.. anything that will get you to the top you will invest time in to learn and master...tech skills, interpersonal communication, writting, ect..

out

remyforbes777

I am working toward an A.S. in Computer Network Engineering. The few certs I have has made my wage pretty nice. Better than a lot of admins that i know of. I am currently studying for my CCNA and from then I am undecided. I want RHCE, MCSE, and CCNP and on top of all that I want to learn programming and graduate. My plate is full but I am still hungry. LOL

the101s

Ye Gum Noki wrote:

Also, when hiring, I look at the whole person. Any DUIs? I'm not hiring you, because I need you to drive a company vehicle. Felony? Forget it. Failed a drug test? Forget it. Bad credit history? Depends on how bad. Dress bad for the interview? No! Drugs or Pot? Hah! You wouldn't believe how many different things we test for AND if the test results are "sterilized," we won't hire you. I won't hire a cigerette smoker because they spend too much time smoking outside. And it is legal to ask that in an interview. I also ask applicants to take a technical test to make sure they aren't "fudging" on their resumes. If they are, I won't hire them.

thank **** america hasnt invaded the rest of the world yet... ok, dui, felony. yeh, technical test - goes without saying, failed a drug test?! - how many people have never taken any drugs, dress bad - since when are i.t geeks good dressers. smoking!? **** man id hate to live there, can you ask them how big their dick is?

sthomas

the101s wrote:

love man id hate to live there, can you ask them how big their dick is?

I don't think you can legally ask that in the US unless it is in the adult entertainment industry but I am sure it has happened before.

BigTone

You won't hire a smoker? Isn't that discrimination?

I've never understood why you wouldn't hire someone based on a credit report.... You can't pay your credit card bills? Well we won't hire you... why give you a job so you can actually get out of debt?

seraphus

I think it goes something like this...

It's because if you're in debt, you'll be more likely
to steal from the company to help yourself. Also,
if you can't manage your own personal business,
how can you manage ours?

I didn't know you could legally discriminate based on smoking.
I'd like to see documentation on that...

To answer the post:
I was a success in IT for 7 years. I essentially worked my way up to
Server Support/T3 (55k). Then I got the bright idea to go back to college.
I took a package instead of signing on with a new contracting company.
I worked at an ISP making squat to get by for a while.
Long story short, I finished school, and am now pursuing my MBA.
I also landed a job as an Implementation Engineer (it's a start)
making a little more than that T3 job. I am recertifying in most of
expired certs, and looking forward to learning as much as possible.

So. I'd say I have had success on both sides of the fence.

sprkymrk

BigTone wrote:

You won't hire a smoker? Isn't that discrimination?

I've never understood why you wouldn't hire someone based on a credit report.... You can't pay your credit card bills? Well we won't hire you... why give you a job so you can actually get out of debt?

Smoker's have to pay more for life insurance, is that discrimination? There's a reason.... Personally I wouldn't hire a smoker because it tends to set off an asthma-like reaction in me.

If you have really bad credit you probably couldn't get a security clearance either.

The Equal Employment Opportuntiy Act only prohibits employment discrimination because of race; color; religion; gender; or national origin. Employers with more than 15 employees are affected; as well as employment agencies; educational institutions; labor unions; and state and local governments.

Otherwise, you don't have to hire someone if they are ugly, have bad breath, tattoos, or like to pierce their nose. All legitimate excuses for not hiring someone.

Ye Gum Noki

the101s wrote:

Ye Gum Noki wrote:

Also, when hiring, I look at the whole person. Any DUIs? I'm not hiring you, because I need you to drive a company vehicle. Felony? Forget it. Failed a drug test? Forget it. Bad credit history? Depends on how bad. Dress bad for the interview? No! Drugs or Pot? Hah! You wouldn't believe how many different things we test for AND if the test results are "sterilized," we won't hire you. I won't hire a cigerette smoker because they spend too much time smoking outside. And it is legal to ask that in an interview. I also ask applicants to take a technical test to make sure they aren't "fudging" on their resumes. If they are, I won't hire them.

thank love america hasnt invaded the rest of the world yet... ok, dui, felony. yeh, technical test - goes without saying, failed a drug test?! - how many people have never taken any drugs, dress bad - since when are i.t geeks good dressers. smoking!? love man id hate to live there, can you ask them how big their dick is?

That's pretty funny. I didn't mean dress bad in a fashion sense. I meant don't show up in jeans and your WOW tee shirt. Why? Because it's a CORPORATION, big business. I am sure if you work for Google or EA, jeans are fine, but for Bank of America, Sears or Haliburtin (no wait they just left), you need to look and dress like an adult. In America, folks have to smoke outside (great law by the way) and that takes TIME. Time that you aren't working. I have a ton of **** for folks to do and smoking slows them down. As for the drug test and credit checks... yeah, too high risk. And remember on the credit, we can be flexable.

So its a good thing you don't live here you poorly dressed, cigerette smoking, can't buy a new DVD player on credit, crackhead, you'd starve to death trying to find a fooking job.

Oh my god, I am so sorry, but that was funny and a lot of fun to write. I am crying I am laughing so hard. So you can pay me back and I won't say anything else.

Cheers,

Mr. Ye

Ye Gum Noki

seraphus wrote:

I didn't know you could legally discriminate based on smoking.
I'd like to see documentation on that...

We, Americans, are the world champions of discriminating against smokers. They are in no way a scantioned minority. If you're in the US, just ask your HR toads or see sprkymrks' comments above.

Mr. Ye

emmajoyce

A 16 yr old kid steals two truck tires with his buddies. The tires are valued over 500 dollars thus making it a felony. The kid grows up and graduates college at age 25. Yep lets not hire him. Hes an extremely bad person. God forbid, he will probably come into my company and steal all our secrets and sell them to china. Give me a break. Thank god all mgrs arent like you.

Ye Gum Noki

You over dramatize and you don't understand corporate. Perhaps I should have simplified it for you, and said "recent" felonies. Regardless, I don't make the rules, i just follow them.

Why did you steal the tires in the first place?

Mr. Ye

Non-Profit Techie