What to buy next?
markzab
Member Posts: 619
in CCNA & CCENT
Hmm...guess polls are disabled in the forum. I know this is in the FAQ but there are so many answers and I can't decide which one to go with.
Part 1: I just recieved my 2612 today (woo-hoo). It has 1 ether, 1 token, console, and aux. I have 2 WIC-1T's on the way. Only needed one for this router but got a good deal and figured I'd need more in the future anyway.
Part 2: I just won an auction for a 12 port 2950 switch and expect to have that sometime next week. Obviously that'll either be coming out of my token port or ether port on my 2612.
Part 3: And this is where I'd like some opinions. I can't for the life of me decide on which router to get for the 2nd one, and probably last one until after I pass the CCNA. I might buy another switch to complete the set but want the router first for now. So which do I go with? I was just going to get another 2612 but who the hell needs two token ring routers.
I looked in the FAQ and see so many options ranging from 25xx's up to 26xx's. Do I get a 2610, 2611, 2612, 2613??? I want this to be scalable as well. I noted on the cisco blueprint the 2610's could be substituted for some of the more expensive equipment. Should I get a router with BRI interfaces so that I can practice ISDN? Is that practicle since ISDN is not as hot?
Just looking for opinions. And a bit of boredom as well. Sitting in at home on a Friday night doesnt help.
Part 1: I just recieved my 2612 today (woo-hoo). It has 1 ether, 1 token, console, and aux. I have 2 WIC-1T's on the way. Only needed one for this router but got a good deal and figured I'd need more in the future anyway.
Part 2: I just won an auction for a 12 port 2950 switch and expect to have that sometime next week. Obviously that'll either be coming out of my token port or ether port on my 2612.
Part 3: And this is where I'd like some opinions. I can't for the life of me decide on which router to get for the 2nd one, and probably last one until after I pass the CCNA. I might buy another switch to complete the set but want the router first for now. So which do I go with? I was just going to get another 2612 but who the hell needs two token ring routers.
I looked in the FAQ and see so many options ranging from 25xx's up to 26xx's. Do I get a 2610, 2611, 2612, 2613??? I want this to be scalable as well. I noted on the cisco blueprint the 2610's could be substituted for some of the more expensive equipment. Should I get a router with BRI interfaces so that I can practice ISDN? Is that practicle since ISDN is not as hot?
Just looking for opinions. And a bit of boredom as well. Sitting in at home on a Friday night doesnt help.
"You, me, or nobody is gonna hit as hard as life. But it ain't how hard you hit; it's about how hard you can get hit, and keep moving forward. How much you can take, and keep moving forward. That's how winning is done!" - Rocky
Comments
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EdTheLad Member Posts: 2,111 ■■■■□□□□□□But yourself a terminal server either a 2511 or a 2509 , the 2511 has 16 lines wheras the 2509 has 8 lines.This router has 2 serial interfaces, 1 ethernet al built-in so you can use it both as a terminal server and a router.Networking, sometimes i love it, mostly i hate it.Its all about the $$$$
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markzab Member Posts: 619EdTheLad wrote:But yourself a terminal server either a 2511 or a 2509 , the 2511 has 16 lines wheras the 2509 has 8 lines.This router has 2 serial interfaces, 1 ethernet al built-in so you can use it both as a terminal server and a router.
Hmmm...never tried that before. Does it hurt? :P
Sorry Ed. Friday night boredom drives me nuts. Well crap. What am I going to do with the extra WIC I have coming in? Hey, if the 2511 or 2509 come with 2 serial interfaces, couldn't I just place the 2 WIC's I have coming in into my 2612 and create redundant serial links between my routers? I know this would have a purpose in regards to my studies but I forget what it is. STP is for redundant switch links. What is it for redundant serial links?"You, me, or nobody is gonna hit as hard as life. But it ain't how hard you hit; it's about how hard you can get hit, and keep moving forward. How much you can take, and keep moving forward. That's how winning is done!" - Rocky -
EdTheLad Member Posts: 2,111 ■■■■□□□□□□markzab wrote:Hey, if the 2511 or 2509 come with 2 serial interfaces, couldn't I just place the 2 WIC's I have coming in into my 2612 and create redundant serial links between my routers? I know this would have a purpose in regards to my studies but I forget what it is. STP is for redundant switch links. What is it for redundant serial links?
Multilink ppp , testing layer 3 load balancing,policy routing and whatever else you can think up.Networking, sometimes i love it, mostly i hate it.Its all about the $$$$ -
markzab Member Posts: 619EdTheLad wrote:markzab wrote:Hey, if the 2511 or 2509 come with 2 serial interfaces, couldn't I just place the 2 WIC's I have coming in into my 2612 and create redundant serial links between my routers? I know this would have a purpose in regards to my studies but I forget what it is. STP is for redundant switch links. What is it for redundant serial links?
Multilink ppp , testing layer 3 load balancing,policy routing and whatever else you can think up.
Aha, good call.
Yo this 2511 is an expensive sucker. I figure the 25xx series would be cheaper than the 2600's. Damn. Around what should I pay for a 2509 or 2511? I'm seeing around $150-$200 on ebay for the 2511's."You, me, or nobody is gonna hit as hard as life. But it ain't how hard you hit; it's about how hard you can get hit, and keep moving forward. How much you can take, and keep moving forward. That's how winning is done!" - Rocky -
EdTheLad Member Posts: 2,111 ■■■■□□□□□□I remember paying 400 euro for a 2511 a couple of years ago.Anyway its a must for a decent lab.Networking, sometimes i love it, mostly i hate it.Its all about the $$$$
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EdTheLad Member Posts: 2,111 ■■■■□□□□□□mikej412 wrote:I scored 2 2509s @ $75 each... and a 3rd at $95. I got 2 2511s @$125 during a lull in the terminal server bidding frenzy on eBay -- they had usually been selling for over $200 each.
Huh? what did ya say? You wanna give one to Markzab? Up to you i guessNetworking, sometimes i love it, mostly i hate it.Its all about the $$$$ -
Darthn3ss Member Posts: 1,096eh i'll take a 2511 if he's selling one :-p..i think i have more equipment than the OP.. trust me its not fun switching one console cable between all this crap.(now 1 2620, 1 2514, 2 2501, 2 2504, 1 2520, 3 2924s, and 1 2912...).. Also, if you're interested, i've found a seller that is selling quite a few 2600 routers if you're wanting to pick more up. I just bought a 2620 32/8 for $109 +ship ($15)... he's got another 2620 for $100 as well, 24/8. Add a couple serial cards (cheap) and spend like $60 on some memory and you're cake. Oh, he's got 2611s & 2610s at around $150 or less also. I also think my 1912 from cisco kits came with a newer IOS for the 2600s, so that helps me. now i just need to find myself a 2950.. i guess i'll wait til next month when i get my bonus.Fantastic. The project manager is inspired.
In Progress: 70-640, 70-685 -
Deadmaster200 Member Posts: 145Hey Mark,
I would also get a 4 or 8 port serial card for that 2600 and then you can use that 2600 as a frame switch. -
seraphus Member Posts: 307Definitely don't get a 2613. You'll only have 1 Token ring port,
and will not be able to add a enet port.
You could get 2511. $200 is a fair deal.
You could also use it as a frame switch when you add
the second router as it has 2 serials.
Practicing ISDN? That's kewl. you won't need it for
an exam, but a lot of people use it as a back up
in the real world.Lab first, ask questions later -
markzab Member Posts: 619Deadmaster200 wrote:Hey Mark, I would also get a 4 or 8 port serial card for that 2600 and then you can use that 2600 as a frame switch.seraphus wrote:You could get 2511. $200 is a fair deal. You could also use it as a frame switch when you add the second router as it has 2 serials.
DM, are you talking about the smaller serial interfaces I've seen. I think they're called WIC-2T? I don't think I've ever seen 4 or 8 serial interfaces on a single module/card.
Seraphus, looks like you're also saying I should make one the frame switch. Would I need only 2 serials on a router or the 4-8 that DM mentioned? I'm thinking I might be leaning toward a 2509/2511. As someone mentioned...switching the console cable all the time would be a pain in the ass.
And rather than create a whole new thread (which you all know I love to do) a question just popped up. I'd like to try and simulate a real environment in my home lab. I don't want to have just one host coming off of my switch. I want it to seem like an office environment with lets say 7-8 hosts/switch. BUT, I don't want to buy 7-8 PC's. I asked my brother earlier today but he didnt know...can you put like 4-5 NIC's into a barebones PC and treat each NIC as if it was a seperate host with seperate IP addresses? If that was possible I'd be able to configure a much more detailed lab.
EDIT: Hey Mike...sell me one."You, me, or nobody is gonna hit as hard as life. But it ain't how hard you hit; it's about how hard you can get hit, and keep moving forward. How much you can take, and keep moving forward. That's how winning is done!" - Rocky -
EdTheLad Member Posts: 2,111 ■■■■□□□□□□markzab wrote:I'd like to try and simulate a real environment in my home lab. I don't want to have just one host coming off of my switch. I want it to seem like an office environment with lets say 7-8 hosts/switch. BUT, I don't want to buy 7-8 PC's. I asked my brother earlier today but he didnt know...can you put like 4-5 NIC's into a barebones PC and treat each NIC as if it was a seperate host with seperate IP addresses? If that was possible I'd be able to configure a much more detailed lab.
EDIT: Hey Mike...sell me one.
Yep, you can install an application called virtual server or virtual machine, cant remember exactly maybe their 2 different apps that do the same thing.I'm looking at doing this when i have some time on my hands. I dont know the limit but you can definitely manage 4 Pcs on a machine, probably need alot of ram processor etc i have a dual core with 4 Gb so its not really a concern.Networking, sometimes i love it, mostly i hate it.Its all about the $$$$ -
seraphus Member Posts: 307markzab wrote:Seraphus, looks like you're also saying I should make one the frame switch. Would I need only 2 serials on a router or the 4-8 that DM mentioned? I'm thinking I might be leaning toward a 2509/2511. As someone mentioned...switching the console cable all the time would be a pain in the ass.
You can make the 2511 a frame switch, as well as use it for OOB management
for your other devices. I'd only do this if your gonna' stop at 2 routers (in addition
to the 2511) just to review the technology itself. Or you can make that 2612 with
2 WIC-1Ts a frame switch to the 2511 and whatever else you get. But this is limiting.
If you plan on going for the CCNP, (again... and I feel your pain ) I
highly recommend getting a 2511. You'll thank yourself immediately, and then
again later.Lab first, ask questions later -
markzab Member Posts: 619EdTheLad wrote:markzab wrote:I'd like to try and simulate a real environment in my home lab. I don't want to have just one host coming off of my switch. I want it to seem like an office environment with lets say 7-8 hosts/switch. BUT, I don't want to buy 7-8 PC's. I asked my brother earlier today but he didnt know...can you put like 4-5 NIC's into a barebones PC and treat each NIC as if it was a seperate host with seperate IP addresses? If that was possible I'd be able to configure a much more detailed lab.
EDIT: Hey Mike...sell me one.
Yep, you can install an application called virtual server or virtual machine, cant remember exactly maybe their 2 different apps that do the same thing.I'm looking at doing this when i have some time on my hands. I dont know the limit but you can definitely manage 4 Pcs on a machine, probably need alot of ram processor etc i have a dual core with 4 Gb so its not really a concern.
Oh, hmm, that sounds like it'd be more expensive than just buying 4 NICs and finding a motherboard with enough slots for them. I'd have to go out and get a powerful machine like the one you've got. Wish there was a cheap way to simulate this scenario."You, me, or nobody is gonna hit as hard as life. But it ain't how hard you hit; it's about how hard you can get hit, and keep moving forward. How much you can take, and keep moving forward. That's how winning is done!" - Rocky -
rossonieri#1 Member Posts: 799 ■■■□□□□□□□markzab wrote:
And rather than create a whole new thread (which you all know I love to do) a question just popped up. I'd like to try and simulate a real environment in my home lab. I don't want to have just one host coming off of my switch. I want it to seem like an office environment with lets say 7-8 hosts/switch. BUT, I don't want to buy 7-8 PC's. I asked my brother earlier today but he didnt know...can you put like 4-5 NIC's into a barebones PC and treat each NIC as if it was a seperate host with seperate IP addresses? If that was possible I'd be able to configure a much more detailed lab.
EDIT: Hey Mike...sell me one.
instead of using 4-5 individually, get 2 servers NICs with 4 ports like intel.
put the box a vmware or virtual pc -- lots of ram.
beware of looping.
cheers.the More I know, that is more and More I dont know. -
markzab Member Posts: 619seraphus wrote:markzab wrote:Seraphus, looks like you're also saying I should make one the frame switch. Would I need only 2 serials on a router or the 4-8 that DM mentioned? I'm thinking I might be leaning toward a 2509/2511. As someone mentioned...switching the console cable all the time would be a pain in the ass.
You can make the 2511 a frame switch, as well as use it for OOB management
for your other devices. I'd only do this if your gonna' stop at 2 routers (in addition
to the 2511) just to review the technology itself. Or you can make that 2612 with
2 WIC-1Ts a frame switch to the 2511 and whatever else you get. But this is limiting.
If you plan on going for the CCNP, (again... and I feel your pain ) I
highly recommend getting a 2511. You'll thank yourself immediately, and then
again later.
Sounds like a plan...
By the way. I'm nuts so that's why I'm awake. What the hell is your guys excuse?"You, me, or nobody is gonna hit as hard as life. But it ain't how hard you hit; it's about how hard you can get hit, and keep moving forward. How much you can take, and keep moving forward. That's how winning is done!" - Rocky -
EdTheLad Member Posts: 2,111 ■■■■□□□□□□markzab wrote:
Oh, hmm, that sounds like it'd be more expensive than just buying 4 NICs and finding a motherboard with enough slots for them. I'd have to go out and get a powerful machine like the one you've got. Wish there was a cheap way to simulate this scenario.
Yes, my mistake, i'm planning on turning my machine into alot of virtual machines so i can play with
multiple multicast sources, if you only want an ip address to ping loopback addresses do the job.Networking, sometimes i love it, mostly i hate it.Its all about the $$$$ -
seraphus Member Posts: 307markzab wrote:By the way. I'm nuts so that's why I'm awake. What the hell is your guys excuse?
Ummm, just this....
Router#delete flash:1:c2600-d-mz.122-17a.bin
Delete filename [c2600-d-mz.122-17a.bin]?
Delete flash:1:c2600-d-mz.122-17a.bin? [confirm]
Router#
Router#erase flash:1:
Erasing the flash:1 filesystem will remove all files! Continue? [confirm]
Erasing device... eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee ...erased
Erase of flash:1: complete
Router#erase flash:2:
Erasing the flash:2 filesystem will remove all files! Continue? [confirm]
Erasing device... eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee ...erased
Erase of flash:2: complete
Router#
Router#config t
Enter configuration commands, one per line. End with CNTL/Z.
Router(config)#no partition flash
Router(config)#end
Router#
00:17:58: %SYS-5-CONFIG_I: Configured from console by consolereload
System configuration has been modified. Save? [yes/no]: n
Proceed with reload? [confirm]
***then I saw...
device does not contain a valid magic number
boot: cannot open "flash:"
boot: cannot determine first file name on device "flash:"
System Bootstrap, Version 11.3(2)XA4, RELEASE SOFTWARE (fc1)
Copyright (c) 1999 by cisco Systems, Inc.
TAC:Home:SW:IOS:Specials for info
C2600 platform with 32768 Kbytes of main memory
rommon 1 >
About to load a new IOS...Lab first, ask questions later -
Deadmaster200 Member Posts: 145Mark,
NM-8A/S for example. Seems you lucky bastards can get it cheap off Ebay. It's 3 times as much to buy it off the most popular auction here (Yahoo).
http://cgi.ebay.com/Cisco-NM-8A-S-Network-Module_W0QQitemZ160104055653QQihZ006QQcategoryZ67286QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Just an example. -
iproute Member Posts: 269seraphus wrote:markzab wrote:By the way. I'm nuts so that's why I'm awake. What the hell is your guys excuse?
Ummm, just this....
Router#delete flash:1:c2600-d-mz.122-17a.bin
Delete filename [c2600-d-mz.122-17a.bin]?
Delete flash:1:c2600-d-mz.122-17a.bin? [confirm]
Router#
Router#erase flash:1:
Erasing the flash:1 filesystem will remove all files! Continue? [confirm]
Erasing device... eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee ...erased
Erase of flash:1: complete
Router#erase flash:2:
Erasing the flash:2 filesystem will remove all files! Continue? [confirm]
Erasing device... eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee ...erased
Erase of flash:2: complete
Router#
Router#config t
Enter configuration commands, one per line. End with CNTL/Z.
Router(config)#no partition flash
Router(config)#end
Router#
00:17:58: %SYS-5-CONFIG_I: Configured from console by consolereload
System configuration has been modified. Save? [yes/no]: n
Proceed with reload? [confirm]
***then I saw...
device does not contain a valid magic number
boot: cannot open "flash:"
boot: cannot determine first file name on device "flash:"
System Bootstrap, Version 11.3(2)XA4, RELEASE SOFTWARE (fc1)
Copyright (c) 1999 by cisco Systems, Inc.
TAC:Home:SW:IOS:Specials for info
C2600 platform with 32768 Kbytes of main memory
rommon 1 >
About to load a new IOS...CCNP Progress
ROUTE [X] :: SWITCH [X] :: TSHOOT [X] -
iproute Member Posts: 269rossonieri#1 wrote:markzab wrote:
And rather than create a whole new thread (which you all know I love to do) a question just popped up. I'd like to try and simulate a real environment in my home lab. I don't want to have just one host coming off of my switch. I want it to seem like an office environment with lets say 7-8 hosts/switch. BUT, I don't want to buy 7-8 PC's. I asked my brother earlier today but he didnt know...can you put like 4-5 NIC's into a barebones PC and treat each NIC as if it was a seperate host with seperate IP addresses? If that was possible I'd be able to configure a much more detailed lab.
EDIT: Hey Mike...sell me one.
instead of using 4-5 individually, get 2 servers NICs with 4 ports like intel.
put the box a vmware or virtual pc -- lots of ram.
beware of looping.
cheers.CCNP Progress
ROUTE [X] :: SWITCH [X] :: TSHOOT [X] -
markzab Member Posts: 619I've been searching for a good deal on either a 2509 or 2511 for a couple days now but am having a hard time finding one. I was wondering, do they make a NM that I could install on a 2610 for example that would give me the same capabilities as having a 2509 (terminal server)?"You, me, or nobody is gonna hit as hard as life. But it ain't how hard you hit; it's about how hard you can get hit, and keep moving forward. How much you can take, and keep moving forward. That's how winning is done!" - Rocky
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sexion8 Member Posts: 242markzab wrote:I've been searching for a good deal on either a 2509 or 2511 for a couple days now but am having a hard time finding one. I was wondering, do they make a NM that I could install on a 2610 for example that would give me the same capabilities as having a 2509 (terminal server)?
NM-16A ... Pricey ..."Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth." - Marcus Aurelius -
markzab Member Posts: 619sexion8 wrote:markzab wrote:I've been searching for a good deal on either a 2509 or 2511 for a couple days now but am having a hard time finding one. I was wondering, do they make a NM that I could install on a 2610 for example that would give me the same capabilities as having a 2509 (terminal server)?
NM-16A ... Pricey ...
That NM has serial interfaces, not the asynch ones I'm seeing on the 2509 and 2511's."You, me, or nobody is gonna hit as hard as life. But it ain't how hard you hit; it's about how hard you can get hit, and keep moving forward. How much you can take, and keep moving forward. That's how winning is done!" - Rocky -
seraphus Member Posts: 307markzab wrote:sexion8 wrote:markzab wrote:I've been searching for a good deal on either a 2509 or 2511 for a couple days now but am having a hard time finding one. I was wondering, do they make a NM that I could install on a 2610 for example that would give me the same capabilities as having a 2509 (terminal server)?
NM-16A ... Pricey ...
That NM has serial interfaces, not the asynch ones I'm seeing on the 2509 and 2511's.
No, they're asnyc alright....
http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products/hw/routers/ps274/products_tech_note09186a00800a93f0.shtml
http://cgi.ebay.com/Cisco-NM-16A-16-Port-Asynchronous-Serial-Network-Module_W0QQitemZ180015824670QQihZ008QQcategoryZ67286QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem
This one's not too, bad...
http://cgi.ebay.com/CISCO-NM-32A-High-Density-32-Port-Asynchronous-Module_W0QQitemZ180107180024QQihZ008QQcategoryZ67286QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting
The 2511/2509 would be your best bet...Lab first, ask questions later -
markzab Member Posts: 619seraphus wrote:markzab wrote:sexion8 wrote:markzab wrote:I've been searching for a good deal on either a 2509 or 2511 for a couple days now but am having a hard time finding one. I was wondering, do they make a NM that I could install on a 2610 for example that would give me the same capabilities as having a 2509 (terminal server)?
NM-16A ... Pricey ...
That NM has serial interfaces, not the asynch ones I'm seeing on the 2509 and 2511's.
No, they're asnyc alright....
http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products/hw/routers/ps274/products_tech_note09186a00800a93f0.shtml
http://cgi.ebay.com/Cisco-NM-16A-16-Port-Asynchronous-Serial-Network-Module_W0QQitemZ180015824670QQihZ008QQcategoryZ67286QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem
This one's not too, bad...
http://cgi.ebay.com/CISCO-NM-32A-High-Density-32-Port-Asynchronous-Module_W0QQitemZ180107180024QQihZ008QQcategoryZ67286QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting
The 2511/2509 would be your best bet...
Hmm. A little deceiving because I searched for NM-8A's and this came up.
http://cgi.ebay.com/CISCO-NM-8A-S-8-PORT-CISCO-SERIAL-MODULE_W0QQitemZ330108953479QQihZ014QQcategoryZ67286QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
That's why I thought he was talking about the serial module.
Man, they dont let you get out easy. Module's more expensive than the router.
Oh well, I try."You, me, or nobody is gonna hit as hard as life. But it ain't how hard you hit; it's about how hard you can get hit, and keep moving forward. How much you can take, and keep moving forward. That's how winning is done!" - Rocky -
seraphus Member Posts: 307I hear ya; though you may wanna' grab one of those too if you
decide to expand.
I think that 2511 is well worth it; I should know, I bought one several months
ago when one popped for $169.00 w/ cables $30 shipping. Look at like this:
it will probably retain its value by the time you complete your NP. (Assuming
you complete yours within the next rolling year, of course).Lab first, ask questions later -
sexion8 Member Posts: 242markzab wrote:That NM has serial interfaces, not the asynch ones I'm seeing on the 2509 and 2511's.
So I'll repost with more information for you...
http://www.cisco.com/application/pdf/en/us/guest/products/ps274/c1167/ccmigration_09186a00801850cd.pdf
NM-16A/S 16-PORT ASYNCHRONOUS/SYNCHRONOUS NETWORK MODULE
Asynchronous/Synchronous interfaces are the most versatile serial connections that Cisco offers. These interfaces support a wide variety of protocols and applications, including WAN concentration, transport of SDLC and Bi-sync data, and asynchronous terminal connections. Cisco announces the availability of the NM-16A/S that has double the interface density of the NM-8A/S."Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth." - Marcus Aurelius -
markzab Member Posts: 619sexion8 wrote:markzab wrote:That NM has serial interfaces, not the asynch ones I'm seeing on the 2509 and 2511's.
So I'll repost with more information for you...
http://www.cisco.com/application/pdf/en/us/guest/products/ps274/c1167/ccmigration_09186a00801850cd.pdf
NM-16A/S 16-PORT ASYNCHRONOUS/SYNCHRONOUS NETWORK MODULE
Asynchronous/Synchronous interfaces are the most versatile serial connections that Cisco offers. These interfaces support a wide variety of protocols and applications, including WAN concentration, transport of SDLC and Bi-sync data, and asynchronous terminal connections. Cisco announces the availability of the NM-16A/S that has double the interface density of the NM-8A/S.
I think you misunderstood me. I wasn't looking for a module with serial interfaces."You, me, or nobody is gonna hit as hard as life. But it ain't how hard you hit; it's about how hard you can get hit, and keep moving forward. How much you can take, and keep moving forward. That's how winning is done!" - Rocky