Degree or No Degree?

qwen3579

I am currently in college seeking an associate's degree in network admin. I will hopefully be A+ certified next week (passed hardware, preparing for os). I will be putting my degree on hold this summer to pursue my MCSE cert. My question is..should I drop my degree hopes completly? Are certifications enough for a great job in IT or does a degree make a difference?

matts5074

MCSE is where I hope to end up myself within the next 18 months or so.

I can honestly say that I wish I had a degree to go with it and I might even contiplate going back and getting one. MCSE may be enough to land you a job, but a degree + MCSE would always look better. Considering how the job market is you need all the help you can get to land the job you want.

Ricka182

A degree will help more than you think. I could have a much better job right now, probably making triple my salary with a degree. Certs are good, but certs + degree are great. I still wish I went to college.

Sartan

I'm taking a compressed course (2 years in 10 months). I'll have a Certificate in Network Technican from Alberta Learning.
I'll work for a year and pay off my $15k loan, and go back to the same school and bridge into the Network Engineer program, and earn a degree from them after 1 year. I'll work again for a little while, and attend school part time for a Bachelor of Information Systems - Network Management and earn that in a little time.

Degrees rock At the end of all this, I hope to have A+, Network+, Security+, MCSA2k, MCSE2k/2k3, CCNA, CCNP, CWNA, CNA, RHCE/T depending on $ flow, BICSI RDD/LAN...

And if I'm feeling really educationally directed, I'll go back and spend another 4 or 5 months on a Security specialization course and earn CCISP & other things.

I'm also thinking of taking a MCAD for the heck of it.

Yeah, big plans.. :P </babble>

janmike

IT job market seems to run with experience being the greatest requirement, then an associate degree, then certs. However, most adds for IT jobs require an associate degree at minimum plus at least one year of experience. Certs are mentioned about 30% of the time.

Don't give up on the degree program. That diploma will catch more eyes than your certs--you see, IMHO, HR people really don't understand the significance of certs. I saw an add recently for a Network Admin position that required "MCSE minimum". I don't have any idea what that would mean and I don't think the person than posted the add does either.

Anyway, you want to get employed--you need a good resume and some experience, but certs look good too, to knowledgeable folks. Then, you want to stay employed. That's where your useable knowledge, ability to increase useable knowledge(don't forget, the ability to knuckle down and research and study is always a valuable tool), and experience combine to help you become more and more valuable to the people paying you.

I wish that I had an associate degree. I've seen several local adds for techs but I don't have a diploma.

Well, best of luck on your decision!

/usr

I'll have my Associates in the spring, but I'm going back to get my Bachelors of Business Administration in Information Systems, after this year, all the while pursuing more certs.

keef-richards

I finished a degree last summer at Uni. I'm now studying for MCSE certs to improve my employability to employers. I've found the biggest stumbling block is getting experience. I'm working at the minute but only as Support, but its experience and hopefully when I get some certs I'll be able to land that System Admin job

ajs1976

In todays market you need both. A couple of years ago you could get away without having the degree.

sasquatch

While most jobs i've come across require degrees, your best bet would be to make those contacts. As I do have a networking degree and a few certs (a+,n+), the one thing that got me the job was the contact I made in school. If not for the contact i'd be in the pool of the jobless IT people

Sartan

keef-richards wrote:

I finished a degree last summer at Uni. I'm now studying for MCSE certs to improve my employability to employers. I've found the biggest stumbling block is getting experience. I'm working at the minute but only as Support, but its experience and hopefully when I get some certs I'll be able to land that System Admin job

See if you can earn yourself an internship or a practicum -- It doesn't neccessarily have to be school related. Work for minimum wage for 2 months, it helps.

Part of my curriculum includes a 2 month practicum which I feel will astronomically improve my hireability [is that even a word?] if I earn it before my fulltime seeking.

kicker22

ok, this is what I have so far..

3 solid years of experience in computer support and lab networking.
2 solid years experience in web designing and programming

Senior in a respected school majoring in CIS

Certs:CCNA 97.4%
And seeking my CCNP, 3 months after I graduate, my goal is to hold CCNP.

NOW... how marketable am I? and where do I stand?

and I am 22 years old.

let me know..thanks

c9805889

Its very hard these days to find work in IT I am in Australia and its real bad. In 2002 I completed my Bachelor of Computer Engineering and applied for more jobs then you could ever imagine and got one interview for a field technician. I then enrolled in the Australian College of Information Technology and Completed a Certificate IV in Network management and a week from completing a Diploma in Network Engineering I also have A+, Network+ and going for the CCNA next week then it will be onto the MCSA. I am hoping i can find a job out there. The industry is so competitive its very hard to get the foot in the door. Good luck everybody out there just hope you can find something. With the answer degree or no degree. I have found my degree useless to finding a job because the jobs it used to cover dont exist anymore or require 10 years experience but i feel a degree may land you a much better job on top of the certs and other courses.

Jamie

learningIT

I'd like to be where Kicker22 is right now. I'm on my way. Kicker, you're in some good shoes, as long as you're in college you're fine. As far as marketability goes, keep up the experience. I'd say experience is the most valuable of all. If you can flaunt 8 years of experience and a title like "Senior Technical Support," you're going to look better than someone fresh out of college with an associates degree (that's nothing!) and a couple certifications. duhh.. It's too often I know and hear of people who have no degrees and no certifications, and perhaps a lot of experience, with these jobs like "looking at blinking lights all day," or making cables all day good wages. I know someone who gets a decent wage who only has about 8 years of experience. A successful friend of mine has once told me, "It's not WHAT you know, it's WHO you know." Get out there and meet some new people, make some new friends. Colleges are a great place to start (I can't wait). My brother got his job as a Network Administrator through someone WHO he knows (he doesn't know too much more than I ). Because of WHO I know, I was offered an entry job at $12/hr, no experience, degrees, or certifications, at the age of 14-15. The two things I had was that friend (WHO) and my work ethic (very good to display). Unfortunately, I couldn't drive. Maybe I'll get another offer, because of WHO I know. (I'd rather hire someone I know [less risky] than someone else).

jamestren

A degree is really a necessity right now. I have my A+, CCNA, MCSE NT, MCSE 2000, and working towards MCSE 2003. I have been a sr. level system admin/engineer for 5 years now, with 8 years of total experience. And to be honest, if I had to find a job tomorrow, I would be scared to death. I occasionally drop resumes on Monster, and I very rarely get a response. Nearly every decent job out there is requiring a degree these days. If not for 4 kids and a wife in nursing school, I would go back - but I am gonna have to just do with certs for now..... If you are contimplating a career path now - GET a DEGREE!!!

viper75

My opinion is...get a degree!!!

It's also sad to say...but I feel these days you can get yourself a good job only by who you know.

Sucks that most of us are busting our butts to get a decent IT job while Joe Blow down the street with no Certs\experience gets the job we're so hard trying to get only because he knows someone that can get him in. I think that it's B.S.

2lazybutsmart

Yeah. I agree with you on that. It's no longer what you know, but rather who you know. But it's definetly black on white that a person with a university degree is more marketable than a person without one.

Kicker22: if you graduate and get your CCNP, you'll be a hot product out there. Without your CCNP but with a university degree will still get you somewhere but not very far. The experience you have there under your belt is quite marketable. In fact, that's where the employers will look at with your current combination. All in all, that's good for your age.

Mwgamer

This job market get every little thing that you can if your not working. The market is an employers market plain and simple. A potential employee needs to make themselves stand out and be noticed. So every little bit helps.

JOblessELement

In my part of the world, a 4yr degree with honors in CS means nothing compared to a certification simply because to the clowns hiring, Microsoft/Cisco is a bigger name than Virginia Tech and they have no clue how many 18-20 hr days I put in for my achievement. In the end, like anything in life, educating yourself to get a job is a huge gamble and getting a job is simply very market dependant. Instead, get to know people through people through people and then educate yourself as you earn.

Just my $0.02.

bubble2005

Having both in your possession is the best overall advice.

oo_snoopy

JOblessELement wrote:

In my part of the world, a 4yr degree with honors in CS means nothing compared to a certification simply because to the clowns hiring, Microsoft/Cisco is a bigger name than Virginia Tech and they have no clue how many 18-20 hr days I put in for my achievement. In the end, like anything in life, educating yourself to get a job is a huge gamble and getting a job is simply very market dependant. Instead, get to know people through people through people and then educate yourself as you earn.

Just my $0.02.

From what I've seen in IT, unless you went to an Ivy league school, it really doesn't matter where you went to school, as long as you have a degree.

shednik

bubble2005 wrote:

Having both in your possession is the best overall advice.

Is there a reason you brought back a 4 year old thread? A degree will always help and never hurt you!

AmpdChaos

Whats with this thread? Theres a 4 year jump.. ??

dynamik

He was probably just browsing through the forums and didn't notice the last post date before he replied. It's not a big deal.

AlexMR

JOblessELement wrote:

In my part of the world, a 4yr degree with honors in CS means nothing compared to a certification simply because to the clowns hiring, Microsoft/Cisco is a bigger name than Virginia Tech and they have no clue how many 18-20 hr days I put in for my achievement. In the end, like anything in life,
educating yourself to get a job is a huge gamble and getting a job is simply very market dependant. Instead, get to know people through people through people and then educate yourself as you earn.

Just my $0.02.

I have to strongly disagree with the bolded part. I think that is the worse advice I have heard in quite a while. So much I compare to some "drugs are not bad for you" or some bollocks I heard a few days ago.

Educating to get a job is a big gamble?

Get your degree. It can only add tools to help you with whatever your goals are.

A couple months ago a younger cousin came to me asking for some guidance about his career path. He was interested in IT and didnt know what school/career to pick. I suggested him to get a non IT B.S, preferably something like Business Administration which is not as time consuming as whatever engineering B.S., and while getting his bachelor, to start getting some certifications and maybe try to get started in IT.

The advice was specifically because of what is happening to the IT job market in DOminican Republic. A CCNA here makes as much, and in some cases more than a computer systems engineer. CCNPs are rare and make a lot, but it seems that all of them aso have Bachelors degrees and sometimes Master's. I know one and he says his Masters are is CCNP and his CCSP.

If you tell me, "i dont see much of a point in getting a degree that in 10 years will be worthless ", I could accept it and my suggestion would still hold true: It seems to be a much better investment to get a degree tht is not as time consuming as the engineering schools degrees while working on getting some certs and getting some solid work experience. I mean, what is worth a Computer science degree from Stanford issued in 1992 if the owner has no job experience today?

I bet a person with Business B.S and an MBA in project management with A+, MCSE, CCNP makes a lot of money and probably doesnt have much trouble getting a great paying job. The problem with that formula is that it takes aproximately 7-8 years, and everybody wants to find that magic course that you can make in 3months and will make you worth 100K/year. Maybe if you get Alice to tell you the way to Wonderland...

zen master

qwen3579 wrote:

I am currently in college seeking an associate's degree in network admin. I will hopefully be A+ certified next week (passed hardware, preparing for os). I will be putting my degree on hold this summer to pursue my MCSE cert. My question is..should I drop my degree hopes completly? Are certifications enough for a great job in IT or does a degree make a difference?

Are you INSANE? No no no no no no no no no. A THOUSAND times no!

human151

I believe too much value is being placed on a degree, when it comes to IT. Why should it matter if you know biology, can write a thesis are global warming, or are versed in english lit, as long as you can log into a router and do what you have to. As long as you can troubleshoot issues. As long as you can do what is required and are good at it, nothing else should matter. I know college graduates are are dumb as rocks. I know non college grads who are CCIE's and know routers and switches inside and out.


There are some companies who will not hire you if you dont have a degree, google is one of them. But most other employers will probably hire someone with a few years experience and a CCNP.


Lets face it, not everyone has an opportunity to attend a university, and to tell people that they have little chance of being successful in the tech world is a bit disingenuous. WHere I work, we value certifications because they know it means (most likely) they know what their doing and they know studying for a cert and passing is not easy and is a great accomplishment. They encourage and pay for certs.

Psoasman

I'm going to put my 2 cents in...
I switched from a totally different field into IT. I have a few certs, but no degree. One of the local community colleges I checked into will allow you to transfer certs to credits for a degree, so you can kill 2 birds....
I think the best combination is experience, certs / degree.

Mmartin_47

qwen3579 wrote:

I am currently in college seeking an associate's degree in network admin. I will hopefully be A+ certified next week (passed hardware, preparing for os). I will be putting my degree on hold this summer to pursue my MCSE cert. My question is..should I drop my degree hopes completly? Are certifications enough for a great job in IT or does a degree make a difference?

I'm in the same position as you. Pursuing my bachelors at DeVry University. But I'm still going for it after MCSE and 2008 upgrade. After 291 I plan on at least taking 2 classes. I say still keep it since many jobs require a degree. It may seem stupid but its just to prove to them that your not lazy and are willing to go the extra mile if you know what I mean.

nel

Like others have said its best to have both then you cant really go wrong. In an ideal world i would love to go for a masters but whilst working FT it would take me 5 years PT study to attain this award ( im currently bsc, would need my honours, then masters). So for me im happy that im "degree qualified" in some sense. So im going to try and advance technically with certs then i will go back at a later date and hopefully do a masters - or at least my honours.

Ive been contemplating quitting work altogether and doing Uni FT but i dont see that as a realistic option so if you can do the degree FT then get it out of the way now - its best for the long run as you can do it faster than doing it part time. Then you can concentrate on certs!

But despite all this pish about certs of degree's - experiance is the defacto! Hands down imo. Some of the brightest IT guys ive came across dont even have a degree. Does this make me better than them? def no. but in the current market degree's are a realistic option for most people in the modern world i think thats one of the main reasons why there expected nowadays.

shednik

human151 wrote:

I believe too much value is being placed on a degree, when it comes to IT. Why should it matter if you know biology, can write a thesis are global warming, or are versed in english lit, as long as you can log into a router and do what you have to. As long as you can troubleshoot issues. As long as you can do what is required and are good at it, nothing else should matter. I know college graduates are are dumb as rocks. I know non college grads who are CCIE's and know routers and switches inside and out.


There are some companies who will not hire you if you dont have a degree, google is one of them. But most other employers will probably hire someone with a few years experience and a CCNP.


Lets face it, not everyone has an opportunity to attend a university, and to tell people that they have little chance of being successful in the tech world is a bit disingenuous. WHere I work, we value certifications because they know it means (most likely) they know what their doing and they know studying for a cert and passing is not easy and is a great accomplishment. They encourage and pay for certs.

You also have to realize that a degree will never hurt you in the beginning or the long run, by no means is it an absolute must. I feel what you get out of a college degree both personally and professionally is well worth it. Taking the bio and english classes make you a more well rounded person and take one of the most important things to have in the work force is communication skills. The company I work for now they'd rather hire someone less technical out of college but with great communication skills with plans of training them. I do know college grads as well who did more partying then I did and are still there, it by no means makes you smart. Like it's been said hundreds of times before the best recipe for success is summed up by JD when he gave the equation for success in IT JD's Equation for Success That is really what it comes down to!

vsmith3rd

You would be making a mistake to undervalue a degree. The scope of opportunities becomes so much broader with one. Speaking from the position of one without a degree, but definitely pursuing one...or more.