Online or Campus?

astorrs

Wow this thread has now officially devolved into insult throwing.

Time to make it go away i think...

Vassago68

My first post wasnt intended to be taken as insulting or anything of the sort. If it was, I am sorry.

Now. On to the rest. I am personally going to DeVry right now, and to say that once you get your B.S. you can't get a Masters, you are sorely mistaken. You might want to do your research.

Second off, DeVry is hardly cheap. Most B.S. Degree's are 48-60K for completion.

Thirdly, I personally am going to this school just to have the degree to go along on my resume with the job field. I already have a B.S. in Communications and Criminal Justice. I already, through the military, have 6 years experience on various areas of IT. Anywhere from Help Desk, Sys Admin (Server room), NetOps (routing and switching), Auditing, and Penetration, and lastly, splicing fiber and assisting with the installation off the TCF's and ADN's here in Iraq at various FOBs.

I am not worried about "Working in the Service Industry", since I know I will not be working there at all.

As far as social networking, I would venture to say, that although you are correct, you would get more from attending a brick and mortar school, not everyone needs that. I myself have enough contacts through contractors and the various persons that I have worked with in the Army over the last 12 years that got out and work all over the US, that I do not need assistance from my school on networking in my field. I already have a vast network of contacts all over.

As I stated in the first post, most brick and mortar schools have an online program. As an employer, YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT I TOOK. DeVry has online and campus. Nova Southeastern out of Florida (which is an expensive private college) also has one. I could rattle off about 2000+ colleges that have one that cater to the military alone. That is not counting the ones that ARENT listed for the military to chose from.

JDMurray

nato76 wrote:

sir_creamy_ wrote:

If you attend college and work full-time then the rigor of your chosen program is questionable. I wouldn't hire you.

This is a pretty ignorant statement. I know plenty of people that have earned their degree at a brick and mortar University while working full time.

I did exactly this by taking only one class every quarter. It took three years, but I made it out with a GPA of 4.0. It was difficult, but not hard to do.

nato76

JDMurray wrote:

nato76 wrote:

sir_creamy_ wrote:

If you attend college and work full-time then the rigor of your chosen program is questionable. I wouldn't hire you.

This is a pretty ignorant statement. I know plenty of people that have earned their degree at a brick and mortar University while working full time.

I did exactly this by taking only one class every quarter. It took three years, but I made it out with a GPA of 4.0. It was difficult, but not hard to do.

I would much rather hire someone like yourself if I was a manager. It shows motivation, discipline, and focus to work a full time job while also going to school.

NinjaBoy

sir_creamy_ wrote:

If you attend college and work full-time then the rigor of your chosen program is questionable. I wouldn't hire you.

I am an IT manager and I also sit on the interview panel for certain jobs, I worked full-time while studying for my BSc (in the US you'd just call it a BS) along with my MCSE, MCITP, my Chartered status, and the rest of my certs & quals (not all at the same time ).

I would not distinguish between the two. However working full-time and studying part-time (either online or in the evenings at a college or Uni) shows commitment/dedication that you can work and study at the same time. If the person is already working in IT, then by the time he/she graduates then they will have "real" world practical skills to go hand in hand with their degree. If they don't work in IT, but another industry, at least they have developed the "soft skills" needed.

IMO, the only real difference between the two is that if you can do your degree full-time, you have the financial backing to study for 4 years and finish the degree quicker. If you do it part-time (whichever method), then you do not let anything stop you from finishing the degree (eg financial and the longer time it takes).

I have seen students from both accredited traditional Uni's and accredited online uni's be equally smart and stupid. And I have seen "brick & stone" Uni's as well as online uni's be degree mill's where their qualifications aren't worth the paper they're written on. And as an employer/manager/personnel officer, etc who sits on interview panels, they should be aware of this.

-Ken

stlsmoore

My IT Manager is finishing up his MBA while working full-time and having a family, I have no idea how he does it!

NinjaBoy

stlsmoore wrote:

My IT Manager is finishing up his MBA while working full-time and having a family, I have no idea how he does it!

By dedication, commitment, the drive for self improvement and the prospects of future career progression. And most likely that he has a very supportive and understanding family, lol

-ken

JDMurray

NinjaBoy wrote:

stlsmoore wrote:

My IT Manager is finishing up his MBA while working full-time and having a family, I have no idea how he does it!

By dedication, commitment, the drive for self improvement and the prospects of future career progression. And most likely that he has a very supportive and understanding family, lol

-ken

Or studying for his MBA was his way of finding "quiet time" away from his family. Nothing like a chaotic family life to make you stay at work longer either.

oldbarney

With a few exceptions, I've read some interesting comments thus far. Some local retired educators and I have a little part-time venture that involves researching online degree options and the relative acceptance thereof.

DeVry: I'll be quite honest; I'm not a fan of DeVry. Aside from from charging comparatively expensive tuition rates, it's also a for-profit school. In terms of help wanted ads on the web, I've observed at least two instances in which employers specifically mention something to the effect of, "applicants from University of Phoenix or DeVry need not apply". Can anyone please tell me if you have ever seen anything similar regarding college degrees earned at other schools, online or on-campus?

From a measurable outcomes perspective, there's also data to consider. For the Texas CPA exam, applicants are required to state the college where their accounting degrees/coursework was completed. In comparison to select Texas community college students, DeVry University students have historically failed the TX CPA examination at higher rates than their public, 2-year college counterparts. Although Texas has a CPA loophole -- students with liberal arts or any other non-business bachelor's degrees can attend community college to qualify for the CPA exam -- the figures are nevertheless rather revealing.

However, to be fair, DeVry holds both regional and ABET accreditation. In the sense that the school meets certain academic standards, one would be correct to assert DeVry's credentialing. DeVry isn't necessarily a "bad" school, in my opinion, but less stigmatized options are available.

Online Degree Acceptance: I encounter this argument quite often. Let me provide you with a hypothetical scenario. University of Houston-Victoria teaches a master's in information systems entirely online. If a prospective employer has an axe to grind with online education, how would he or she know if such a degree was earned via distance learning? Sans the obvious "time and place" limitation, there is absolutely no way to know without what some call, "forensic transcript evaluation". And, even then, FERPA has various established guidelines to protect student privacy. The only way an employer will know for certain if that degree from UH-V was earned online is if transcripts are obtained and compared with older course schedules, or if the job applicant admits as much. This forensic method works when university class numbering systems specifically differentiate online from on-campus courses. Four years into the future, try attempting this little exercise for a suspected online degree earned three or four years ago. Have fun!

My point is simple and involves "backyard brands", as Vicky Phillips of GetEducated.com so aptly points out. People generally recognize which colleges maintain brick and mortar campuses in their 100-mile radius. The local news is inundated with campus stories, sports victories and defeats, and the like. But are these people also aware that the same institutions offer online degrees?

Furthermore, yes, there is data suggesting that degrees earned through distance learning are gaining acceptance with employers. For someone who is young, inexperienced, and can afford the traditional, brick-and-mortar experience, I say go to school on campus at the best university possible. Very little can replace interaction and networking associated with the traditional college experience, in this respect. However, the older student, with years of experience under his/her belt, could obviously benefit more from a non-traditional degree primarily due to simple economics.

Reputation: It's hard to argue reputation. On one hand, we have the Ivy Leagues, flagship state universities, and other reknown institutions (i.e. University of Southern California, Stanford, Notre Dame, CalTech, MIT, Chicago, Rice, Johns-Hopkins, Duke, Vanderbilt, etc.). On the other, we have all the other schools, and even then you'll still find some disagreement as to the viability of such education.

Would it surprise you to learn that Harvard, through it's Extension School, offers two graduate certificates entirely online? Except for one semester on campus, one can earn a master's (ALM) through the Harvard Extension School via distance learning. Stanford offers at least one undergraduate certificate in writing online -- the credits will not count for a Stanford degree, but certainly transfer to almost every other college in the United States. Stanford also teaches courses leading to graduate certificates online; one course is taught by former defense secretary William Perry. Pending New York state approval, Cornell hopes to begin an online master's in systems engineering this fall. Columbia, Northwestern, Vanderbilt, University of Texas, Tulane, USC each offer distance degree opportunities in one form or another. I mean, the list goes on and on.

The main determinant, of course, is how much you are willing to pay. For example, a master's through Columbia CVN costs over $36,000. The University of Florida online master's in information systems and operations management costs roughly the same, yet also involves short campus visits. There are some great deals out there as well. If you think online is the way to go, then perform some research. What's available from the "big names" as far as distance degrees are concerned may surprise you.

Let me put it another way. Arnold Schwarzenegger completed his bachelor's through University of Wisconsin-Superior largely through correspondence. How often is this so-called "degree stigma" mentioned in his case? Although some Californians may disagree, I think the "Governator" is a well-rounded individual. Then again, Arnold should be the considered the exception and not the rule.

In my opinion, the bottom line is this: If you must go online to complete a degree, try to find the most reputable option available. For US people, there are numerous older, brick-and-mortar colleges/universities offering online degrees, many in your 100-200 mile radius. This virtualization of education will only continue to grow, especially now with the price of gas around $4/gallon. It's also about money; for-profit schools (Phoenix, Kaplan, ITT, etc.) have motivated traditional universities to greatly expand their respective online offerings. If you have researched distance learning alternatives like I have, then you know it's no longer about convenience, but rather affordable accessibility. And lastly, be advised that according to various studies, online/distance education has a higher dropout rate than traditional coursework. In an online/distance learning environment, success depends more on you and your own motivation.

Sorry for the long essay. To me, this subject is fascinating. Someone who is disciplined, motivated, and committed stands to greatly benefit from distance learning, particularly with all the currently available options. More and more opportunities from truly great schools are coming online almost every month.

blargoe

JDMurray wrote:

Or studying for his MBA was his way of finding "quiet time" away from his family. Nothing like a chaotic family life to make you stay at work longer either.

I feel that guy.

NinjaBoy

One of my friends wrote on article on online degrees, see here.

-Ken

mengo17

NinjaBoy wrote:

One of my friends wrote on article on online degrees, see here.

-Ken

Read these two links too...

http://www.certmag.com/read.php?in=3449

http://www.certmag.com/read.php?in=3320

They do cover all these discussions about certification vs. degree, online vs. campus, and more...

jryantech

People are so naive...

I mean seriously it does not take much brain power to understand why State Universities have requirements to get in and why DeVry does not.

If you really want to get a Bachelors from DeVry more power to you, just don't try and get a job at a Fortune 500 company over someone who got there Bachelors from a State University.

I think I'll purchase some DeVry shares today, I need to make some money off these pinheads who think DeVry looks good on there resume.

vistalavista

jryantech wrote:

People are so naive...

I mean seriously it does not take much brain power to understand why State Universities have requirements to get in and why DeVry does not.

If you really want to get a Bachelors from DeVry more power to you, just don't try and get a job at a Fortune 500 company over someone who got there Bachelors from a State University.

I think I'll purchase some DeVry shares today, I need to make some money off these pinheads who think DeVry looks good on there resume.

You seem bitter. You must be having a hard time landing a job after going through 9 years of University.

dynamik

What's with everyone's attitude in this thread? I just figured everyone was hung-over on Saturday. Now what's wrong? It seems like some people have a case of the Mondays.

Sorry, I couldn't resist

Seriously though, it is possible to make a contradicting point without attacking or insulting someone else. Try it out!

undomiel

dynamik wrote:

Seriously though, it is possible to make a contradicting point without attacking or insulting someone else. Try it out!

This forward thinking in this thread must be quelled, quashed and eliminated.

I smite thee dynamik!

jryantech

vistalavista wrote:

jryantech wrote:

People are so naive...

I mean seriously it does not take much brain power to understand why State Universities have requirements to get in and why DeVry does not.

If you really want to get a Bachelors from DeVry more power to you, just don't try and get a job at a Fortune 500 company over someone who got there Bachelors from a State University.

I think I'll purchase some DeVry shares today, I need to make some money off these pinheads who think DeVry looks good on there resume.

You seem bitter. You must be having a hard time landing a job after going through 9 years of University.

I'm 19 years old. The only one who might be bitter is you, the one who could not get into a State University and had to settle with DeVry or some for-profit technical school.

stlsmoore

jryantech wrote:

People are so naive...

I mean seriously it does not take much brain power to understand why State Universities have requirements to get in and why DeVry does not.

If you really want to get a Bachelors from DeVry more power to you, just don't try and get a job at a Fortune 500 company over someone who got there Bachelors from a State University.

I think I'll purchase some DeVry shares today, I need to make some money off these pinheads who think DeVry looks good on there resume.

I think you're naive a degree isn't the be all end all solution to what it takes in IT it's sooo much more than that. I'm sure in other specialties like being a doctor or lawyer where you received your degree matters but not so much in IT. It's more like the icing on top of the cake if you ask me. I'm glad I don't have to work with someone like you in my IT department who puts other people down based on what school they went to.

I went to ITT Tech and I'll agree that there is way better options and I wouldn't recommend that place to my worst enemy. Even still I managed to land a great job in which I competed with over 200 applicants for this ONE position. That right there at least in my eyes tells me that the school you received your degree will not determine your fate in IT.

skubasteve

***eats a peanut butter sandwhich amidst all of the tension in this thread***

jryantech

stlsmoore wrote:

jryantech wrote:

People are so naive...

I mean seriously it does not take much brain power to understand why State Universities have requirements to get in and why DeVry does not.

If you really want to get a Bachelors from DeVry more power to you, just don't try and get a job at a Fortune 500 company over someone who got there Bachelors from a State University.

I think I'll purchase some DeVry shares today, I need to make some money off these pinheads who think DeVry looks good on there resume.

I think you're naive a degree isn't the be all end all solution to what it takes in IT it's sooo much more than that. I'm sure in other specialties like being a doctor or lawyer where you received your degree matters but not so much in IT. It's more like the icing on top of the cake if you ask me. I'm glad I don't have to work with someone like you in my IT department who puts other people down based on what school they went to.

I went to ITT Tech and I'll agree that there is way better options and I wouldn't recommend that place to my worst enemy. Even still I managed to land a great job in which I competed with over 200 applicants for this ONE position. That right there at least in my eyes tells me that the school you received your degree will not determine your fate in IT.

All my "attacks" have been retaliation in this thread. If you would start from the first post you would realize that.

What most of you don't understand is that the question was "Does anyone know if employeress care about whether you got your degree at an online college or campus college?" And I said that campus college looks better on the resume to most employers.

If you believe that ITT Tech looks better then a State University on a resume then more power too you, I have nothing against your opinion, I'm just stating mine and the facts I have gathered.

benbuiltpc

I'll be taking online classes for my Master's in Management Info Systems @ University of Illinois at Springfield.

http://mis.uis.edu

I'll have to admit, the website looks outdated, but everything else I've gathered up to this point makes me think this program is the real deal. I've never taken courses that were 100% online before. It's a blend of business and IT; typical brick-and-mortar school that doesn't focus on cutting edge or vendor specific applications.

Before deciding on this program, I looked at plenty of other "profitable" schools online... a lot of them seemed more like a store front than anything else. Just seemed too commercialized for my tastes.

But as of right now I can't vouch for this specific program or school - I'll keep you posted!

oldbarney

benbuiltpc wrote:

I'll be taking online classes for my Master's in Management Info Systems @ University of Illinois at Springfield.

http://mis.uis.edu

I'll have to admit, the website looks outdated, but everything else I've gathered up to this point makes me think this program is the real deal. I've never taken courses that were 100% online before. It's a blend of business and IT; typical brick-and-mortar school that doesn't focus on cutting edge or vendor specific applications.

Before deciding on this program, I looked at plenty of other "profitable" schools online... a lot of them seemed more like a store front than anything else. Just seemed too commercialized for my tastes.

But as of right now I can't vouch for this specific program or school - I'll keep you posted!

Based on some comments I've read, the online MIS master's through Illinois-Springfield is a well-respected and comparatively inexpensive program. Good luck!

stlsmoore

jryantech wrote:

stlsmoore wrote:

jryantech wrote:

People are so naive...

I mean seriously it does not take much brain power to understand why State Universities have requirements to get in and why DeVry does not.

If you really want to get a Bachelors from DeVry more power to you, just don't try and get a job at a Fortune 500 company over someone who got there Bachelors from a State University.

I think I'll purchase some DeVry shares today, I need to make some money off these pinheads who think DeVry looks good on there resume.

I think you're naive a degree isn't the be all end all solution to what it takes in IT it's sooo much more than that. I'm sure in other specialties like being a doctor or lawyer where you received your degree matters but not so much in IT. It's more like the icing on top of the cake if you ask me. I'm glad I don't have to work with someone like you in my IT department who puts other people down based on what school they went to.

I went to ITT Tech and I'll agree that there is way better options and I wouldn't recommend that place to my worst enemy. Even still I managed to land a great job in which I competed with over 200 applicants for this ONE position. That right there at least in my eyes tells me that the school you received your degree will not determine your fate in IT.

All my "attacks" have been retaliation in this thread. If you would start from the first post you would realize that.

What most of you don't understand is that the question was "Does anyone know if employeress care about whether you got your degree at an online college or campus college?" And I said that campus college looks better on the resume to most employers.

If you believe that ITT Tech looks better then a State University on a resume then more power too you, I have nothing against your opinion, I'm just stating mine and the facts I have gathered.

How do you gather that I think ITT Tech looks better than a state university when I specifically said that I wouldn't wish ITT on my worse enemy?

Vassago68

U of I is a good school. I can't vouch for that specific program, but I went there myself for my Criminal Justice degree before I joined the Army.

As for persons saying that a degree is the end all be all, it's not.

I will have 3 degrees after I complete this one, 2 of them while working in the Army full time. After I get my BS, I will go back and get my Masters.

What I've been trying to stress this whole time is that as an employer, you have no idea if I went to a brick school or an online one. Unless of course it is something like University of Phoenix.

Most colleges now have both, or a mixture. That was my point. Some people here are too set in their ways though to realize that.

As for the poster that said they don't trust how hard a college is if someone was able to work full time and attain a degree, then I feel sorry for you. I know plenty of people that take 1 course at a time and take 3-4 years to finish their degree.

I took 4 years to finish my second degree in Communications while I was in the Army. Now, if you think you can deploy, work 12-18 hours a day, 1-2 hours of PT a day, work in sleep and AND manage to pass a college course at the same time and think that it was easy, then I'd love to see you do it.

I would rather take someone that went to an online school and worked full time in an environ like I did, then someone with no hands on experience coming straight out of a brick college. Least I have hands on from the Army, and they paid for my college as well.

snadam

jryantech wrote:

stlsmoore wrote:

jryantech wrote:

People are so naive...

I mean seriously it does not take much brain power to understand why State Universities have requirements to get in and why DeVry does not.

If you really want to get a Bachelors from DeVry more power to you, just don't try and get a job at a Fortune 500 company over someone who got there Bachelors from a State University.

I think I'll purchase some DeVry shares today, I need to make some money off these pinheads who think DeVry looks good on there resume.

I think you're naive a degree isn't the be all end all solution to what it takes in IT it's sooo much more than that. I'm sure in other specialties like being a doctor or lawyer where you received your degree matters but not so much in IT. It's more like the icing on top of the cake if you ask me. I'm glad I don't have to work with someone like you in my IT department who puts other people down based on what school they went to.

I went to ITT Tech and I'll agree that there is way better options and I wouldn't recommend that place to my worst enemy. Even still I managed to land a great job in which I competed with over 200 applicants for this ONE position. That right there at least in my eyes tells me that the school you received your degree will not determine your fate in IT.

All my "attacks" have been retaliation in this thread. If you would start from the first post you would realize that.

What most of you don't understand is that the question was "Does anyone know if employeress care about whether you got your degree at an online college or campus college?" And I said that campus college looks better on the resume to most employers.

If you believe that ITT Tech looks better then a State University on a resume then more power too you, I have nothing against your opinion, I'm just stating mine and the facts I have gathered.

Actually your original post is mostly speculation, with a hint of bitterness. Id be pissed too if someone was mocking my educational experience. But like you said, 'you're at the ripe age of 19'; and therefore must know everything there is to know...

now I see why this thread is at 3 pages...too bad because I thought it would have been an interesting topic.

JDMurray

And it will stay at three pages only.