what's up with a lot of these on-line schools i.e. WGU etc..

mjones

I have a 2 year degree A.A. in Business, and an A+ cert. I am currently studying for the Net+. This site like a lot of sites advertise a lot of online schools. Are they really credible? I am really interested in the WGU B.A. in IT because you get different cert's along the way. Would employers really accept a degree from this place or other any of the online schools and if so are they kind of frowned upon?

dynamik

WGU and Capella seem credible. Others like University of Phoenix seem... not so great.

You can't just lump all online schools together because the quality will vary between them, just like with brick-and-mortar facilities.

mjones

Thanks dynamik you heve been very helpful to me today!!

jryantech

Why not attend a University? There is some information missing here...

A lot of Universities have online and night classes if your current work is getting in the way.

dynamik

They're both regionally accredited. How would taking online classes from them be different from taking online classes from another school? Just because the other one also offers on-campus classes?

http://www.capella.edu/about_capella/accreditation.aspx
http://www.wgu.edu/about_WGU/accreditation.asp


Here's another thread you may want to check out: http://www.techexams.net/forums/viewtopic.php?p=230042


Like I said there, it also depends on the program.
IT =
Surgery =

down77

I've said this before but... first and foremost do the research! Call your state Department of Education, get a copy of the USA Today/Princeton review and check ratings, and most importantly decide on one that fits YOU best. You may also want to check out which corporations are strategic partners in technology or whatever your field of choice may be.

I've read a few of the posts on brick and mortar vs online and let me tell you just because a school is online does not in any way mean that it will be easier!!! I can compare Florida State University vs Western Governors University because I have attended both schools and speaking from experience they both demand quality work (notice I did not say one was easier or did I attempt to compare degrees from academic entities so please lets not get that debate started).

Now then, as a hiring manager one of the things I have to ask myself of each candidate REGARDLESS of where there degree is from is "What is their technical aptitude as compared to the job description in which they are applying for?" As long as you have an accredited degree, reasonable and verifiable hands on experience/certification/knowledge, and a passion to work you will be able to find a job.

Dynamik just curious, why is U of Phoenix not so great? Is this from personal experience or other? The reason I ask is because we have graduates from that institution working for my company and the majority of them are fairly good at their job.

My apologies for any rant or off topic digression

Daniel333

mjones wrote:

Would employers really accept a degree from this place or other any of the online schools and if so are they kind of frowned upon?

Yes, they will "accept" it. But rest assured online degree vs. one from a traditional school - given everything else is equal they will take the brick and mortar candidate first.

Your best bet it to find an online program from a brick and mortar school. It will be cheaper and a considerably better entry on your resume.

Either way, you can't go wrong either way!

eMeS

dynamik wrote:

WGU and Capella seem credible. Others like University of Phoenix seem... not so great.

You can't just lump all online schools together because the quality will vary between them, just like with brick-and-mortar facilities.

This is a good point. There is going to be variance in all types of schools and within programs. Regional accreditation is supposed to solve that problem, but it rarely does. UoP is also regionally accredited like WGU and Capella. From my vantage point I don't see a real difference in any of these three specific schools.

I like to look at this question differently. Generally, an education from a for-profit school is perceived as less rigorous and less valuable than an education from a non-profit or an endowed school. Theoretically this should help WGU, because they are non-profit.

There are a few heated threads on here about ITT, DeVry, and other for-profit schools that cover this very topic of credibility. My intent is not to start another of those. Individuals can and do work hard at what they do regardless of the reputation of school they attend.

I do think a general statement about the school you choose can be made:

The more the reputation for the school you graduated from speaks for itself, the more your investment in education is working for you.

A corollary to this is:

The less you have to explain or defend the school you graduated from, the better.

MS

dynamik

Wow. I didn't know Capella was for-profit. I just threw UoP out there because they have web ads all over the place, and it really seems like they're just trying to sell you a piece of paper. That's just my personal interpretation.

I did come across this while looking into it, and it seems useful: http://www.college-scholarships.com/ssac.htm

As always, thanks for the insight, MS.

eMeS

dynamik wrote:

Wow. I didn't know Capella was for-profit. I just threw UoP out there because they have web ads all over the place, and it really seems like they're just trying to sell you a piece of paper. That's just my personal interpretation.

I did come across this while looking into it, and it seems useful: http://www.college-scholarships.com/ssac.htm

As always, thanks for the insight, MS.

I think you're on target. All other things held equal, a for-profit school only survives by selling classes. The piece of paper is more of a side-effect to completing a certain number of classes. Ultimately an endowed or non-profit school only survives through selling classes too, but they don't have the pressure of investors that want profits. Either way, how many of those pieces of paper one issues is a delicate balancing act....

It's simple supply and demand...the more pieces of paper issued from a school the lower overall value each individual piece of paper will have.

Also, everyone please note that my distinction says nothing about whether the program is online or not. Most schools these days offer some kind of online classwork, and even UoP has campuses. When I was in school a long time ago I took a class at a traditional university that was delivered by videotape. The mode of delivery doesn't determine the rigor of the program.

Not to totally beat-down for-profit schools, as endowed and state funded schools suffer from many problems, including virtual monopoly effects. For example, sometimes the only market for a book is one special class that a professor is teaching. Thus, it's not uncommon for these guys to write a book that they then require as the text for their course. This isn't going to be news for anyone here, but it's also not uncommon for textbooks to be exorbitantly priced...they have a captive market. I think a for-profit school has more flexibility in driving down this cost (whether they do or not is a different story).

Generally, my belief is that a for-profit approach is best in most industries. A couple of the only exceptions that I make are education and prisons. I think these are better run and more cost-effective, and offer less chance for corruption when run independently of investors that expect a return on capital. (Think about it, if you're running a business that administers prisons, what's the one thing you want more than anything?)

MS

jryantech

I wonder if DeVry or ITT Tech offer students discounted stock shares, as if your working for them

Maybe even a 401(K)

"Hello John, Welcome aboard DeVry! Before you head off to class, may I interest you in some shares?"

"Shares?"

"Yes, some shares of our company! I mean you've already invested in an education here might as well work the market, am I right?!"

eMeS

jryantech wrote:

I wonder if DeVry or ITT Tech offer students discounted stock shares, as if your working for them

Maybe even a 401(K)

"Hello John, Welcome aboard DeVry! Before you head off to class, may I interest you in some shares?"

"Shares?"

"Yes, some shares of our company! I mean you've already invested in an education here might as well work the market, am I right?!"

I take a similar approach to gasoline. I own shares of an ETF that invests in energy stocks...I'd like to get enough in there that the annual returns cover our energy expenses, but that might take a while...

MS

LarryDaMan

Good thread. I was looking into Capella University for my Masters program, but I have read some good and bad things. Capella is a fairly new school, I know some people here have gone or are going... I wonder how their reputation stacks up?

Forbes had a mixed review...

http://www.forbes.com/bow/b2c/category.jhtml?id=147

Also, not to incite a riot, but jryantech should know that online classes are here to stay forever. You just have to pick the right school, but an online degree is not taboo any longer, especially in IT. Computers and the internet have changed everything else, why not education?

You have ripped online studies in multiple threads... and you asked: Why not attend a University? Fair enough, but why not send more snail mail.... why not buy more CDs? The world is a changin'.

dynamik

Like I said earlier, I think the program plays a significant role in the value of an online degree.

Nothing against Capella, but I'd much rather have a teacher or therapist/counselor come from a brick and mortar institution. I think IT programs and distance/online learning are a good fit.

Those Forbes "reviews" kind of sucked. One paragraph with a best and worst opinion isn't much of a review. It looks like they just poked around the website and never even participated in the programs. They say a degree from Capella might not be taken too seriously, but they don't even bother to elaborate on that.

darkerosxx

I was looking at WGU just checking it out:

Safe Browsing
Diagnostic page for www.wgu.edu/wgu/

What is the current listing status for www.wgu.edu/wgu/?

Site is listed as suspicious - visiting this web site may harm your computer.

Part of this site was listed for suspicious activity 1 time(s) over the past 90 days.

What happened when Google visited this site?

Of the 253 pages we tested on the site over the past 90 days, 110 page(s) resulted in malicious software being downloaded and installed without user consent. The last time Google visited this site was on 07/10/2008, and the last time suspicious content was found on this site was on 07/10/2008.

Malicious software includes 112 scripting exploit(s), 17 trojan(s), 17 exploit(s). Successful infection resulted in an average of 3 new processes on the target machine.

Malicious software is hosted on 29 domain(s), including upcomd.com, usaadp.com, heiheinn.cn.

9 domain(s) appear to be functioning as intermediaries for distributing malware to visitors of this site, including upcomd.com, qq117cc.cn, pyttco.com.

Has this site acted as an intermediary resulting in further distribution of malware?

Over the past 90 days, www.wgu.edu/wgu/ did not appear to function as an intermediary for the infection of any sites.

Has this site hosted malware?

No, this site has not hosted malicious software over the past 90 days.

How did this happen?

In some cases, third parties can add malicious code to legitimate sites, which would cause us to show the warning message.

LarryDaMan

Nothing against Capella, but I'd much rather have a teacher or therapist/counselor come from a brick and mortar institution.

I really respect your contributions to this board and I have not researched Capella enough, so I mean no offense, but what?

Are the instructors at brick and mortar schools fundementally different in any way? Were they breast fed as oppose to the formula fed online instructors? IMO, you have to do your research no matter what format you choose to study with. I think the stigma associated with reputable online universities is unwarranted.

But, we all have our own opinions and I respect most of them.

TryPingingTheServer

larrydaman wrote:

Nothing against Capella, but I'd much rather have a teacher or therapist/counselor come from a brick and mortar institution.

I really respect your contributions to this board and I have not researched Capella enough, so I mean no offense, but what?

Are the instructors at brick and mortar schools fundementally different in any way? Were they breast fed as oppose to the formula fed online instructors? IMO, you have to do your research no matter what format you choose to study with. I think the stigma associated with reputable online universities is unwarranted.

But, we all have our own opinions and I respect most of them.

For admission into Capella's IT masters program a minimum GPA of 2.3 is required. Not exactly stringent.

Take a look at most brick and mortar institutions for IT & CS and you'll notice a B+ average is the norm.

Quality.

dynamik

Interpersonal communications. I'm actually wrapping up a psych degree, and I don't think some of the things I've learned/skills I've gained could have been achieved via online learning. Could an online program teach your how to write a great lesson? Sure. Can it teach you how to effectively deliver it to an audience of 30+ people? Could it teach a therapist to read his or her client's subtle emotions? IT personnel need interpersonal skills as well, but it's not the foundation of our careers. I just don't see how an online program can develop these skills. If reading and watching was all it took to develop these skills, I'd be one of the most charismatic presenters in the world. Unfortunately, I still get slightly nervous even talking one-on-five. Those types of things only come with practice.

Edit: Also, I wasn't imply that all brick and mortar schools are great at this either. There's plenty of those that are terrible as well. I was just generally saying that those types of programs are geared more towards classroom education.

LarryDaMan

I can't defend Capella, if they wanted to pay me.... I could make something up, but they don't.

My comment was only about online education in general. Many traditional schools are offering online degrees and online degrees are becoming more highly regarded. The "old" way is not the only way. A 30 page paper on "The Mating Habits of Left-Handed Dwarfs in Indonesia" is the same paper whether you are pursuing a degree online, in a building, or on the moon for that matter.

Edit: Good point dynamik, you do lose those personal communications, but again conferencing technology is going to help in that area too...

LarryDaMan

TryPingingTheServer, you may hold the distinction of being the only guy besides Mitt Romney with Mitt Romney as his avatar.

I like our opposing views on online education, but like Mitt Romney, I am sure you will change positions and be on my side tomorrow!

I couldn't help it, I don't play video games... I am a political junkie

dynamik

larrydaman wrote:

Edit: Good point dynamik, you do lose those personal communications, but again conferencing technology is going to help in that area too...

I don't know about you, but I'd still be 1000 times more nervous standing in front of actual people than a webcam with an audience on the screen. You can't simply unplug a cord and retreat to your bedroom to sob into a pillow if you make an ass out of yourself when you're out and about

I'm not knocking online learning. I love it. It's flexible and conveniently works with my schedule. I'll probably have done close to 1/4-1/3 of my coursework online through IDL (independent distance learning) by the time I'm done with my degree. I just feel that certain programs benefit from the classroom environment, generally speaking.

TryPingingTheServer

larrydaman wrote:

TryPingingTheServer, you may hold the distinction of being the only guy besides Mitt Romney with Mitt Romney as his avatar.

I like our opposing views on online education, but like Mitt Romney, I am sure you will change positions and be on my side tomorrow!

I couldn't help it, I don't play video games... I am a political junkie

Hehe.

"I was an independent during Reagan-Bush, I'm not trying to return to Reagan-Bush"

Yeah, he flips and/or flops, but his smugness tickles me in all the right places. I dunno, you'd have to butter me up more to make me shift my position on cyber learning.

jryantech

Listen...

Nothing is stopping you from getting your certs while going a community college or university. Do not pick an online school just because they offer you study material for your certification's...

The only two way I would attend any online school or technical school:

One is if my local community college did not offer classes the hours I needed because I'm stuck with my current job, which is very rare...

Two I did not get accepted into a state university.

darkerosxx

I agree. I don't have a problem with online learning. What I DO have a problem with is online learning(for college degrees) where all they do is offer taped classes and don't hold you accountable for doing your work other than taking a mid-term and a final. That's not school, imo, and I think the impression of the majority is that online schools are not as rigorous and therefore don't mean as much. Whether that's true or not is a different story...

undomiel

Nothing wrong with being accountable to yourself. It'll make you a stronger person in the end. I would have loved it if there was only a mid-term and a final and the homework was optional. I hate busy work. It gets in the way of the learning.

dynamik

darkerosxx wrote:

I agree. I don't have a problem with online learning. What I DO have a problem with is online learning(for college degrees) where all they do is offer taped classes and don't hold you accountable for doing your work other than taking a mid-term and a final. That's not school, imo, and I think the impression of the majority is that online schools are not as rigorous and therefore don't mean as much. Whether that's true or not is a different story...

Depends on the program. I'm taking a writing intensive law class to satisfy my last Liberal Ed requirement, and it's intense. There's 16 lessons (3 are actually just exams), and I'll probably have to write 5-10 pages per lesson. It's a nine month course, and it ends in the middle of October. The only part that sucks is that I haven't started yet

A lot of the other courses I've taken have forced you participate in the forums and interact with other students, etc. Nothing like what you're describing at the U of M.

darkerosxx

Yeah, I don't think they're all that way. I think that's the impression most people have, though, because a lot of them are that way. That's the obstacle people have to overcome with an all-online degree.