The Declining Value Of Your College Degree

mengo17

"isn't any big guarantee of employment, it's a basic requirement, a step you have to take to even be considered for many professional jobs."

Just sharing this article, since I saw a lot of threads on Degree or no Degree recently here...
It is worth reading it... see the video too...

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121623686919059307.html?mod=yhoofront

nice343

a degree it self is not enough


degree + advanced certs( CCNP, CCIE or MCSE) + experience will take you to a lot of places.

I will hire a CCNP with lots of experience over a fresh grad anyday of the year

jryantech

Oh please

The only thing I learned from that link is that the girl in the video needs new glasses.
I mean come on, thick black outlined glasses is not cruise control to achieving "cool"...

As for degrees vs. non-degrees I encourage anyone dim-witted enough to believe this garbage. Because that is just one less person I have to interview against later down my career.

Employer to me: "Hello, I see you have an A.A. and Bachelors in this field, also some nice certifications and would you look at this, experience to boot! Very well."

Me: "Yep I believe I'm ready for this job"

Employer to the other guy: "Hello, I see you have no degree but a bunch of certifications and some experience! That is nice I suppose, whats the deal with no degree?"

Other guy: "Oh, well The Wall Street Journal said degrees have a declining value so what a poor investment getting one of those would be, right?!! hahaha"

LarryDaMan

All things being equal, having a degree is better. However, it is not unheard of for college graduates to be flipping burgers...

I find at my work the only people who dismiss the importance of a degree are the people who don't have one.

jryantech

larrydaman wrote:

All things being equal, having a degree is better. However, it is not unheard of for college graduates to be flipping burgers...

This is obvious.

Some of the most successful people in America have dropped out of college or even high school! But that does not mean it is the right thing to do.

Obviously if you know someone(having connections) it is quite easy to get any job.

undomiel

jryantech wrote:

Oh please

The only thing I learned from that link is that the girl in the video needs new glasses.
I mean come on, thick black outlined glasses is not cruise control to achieving "cool"...

As for degrees vs. non-degrees I encourage anyone dim-witted enough to believe this garbage. Because that is just one less person I have to interview against later down my career.

Employer to me: "Hello, I see you have an A.A. and Bachelors in this field, also some nice certifications and would you look at this, experience to boot! Very well."

Me: "Yep I believe I'm ready for this job"

Employer to the other guy: "Hello, I see you have no degree but a bunch of certifications and some experience! That is nice I suppose, whats the deal with no degree?"

Other guy: "Oh, well The Wall Street Journal said degrees have a declining value so what a poor investment getting one of those would be, right?!! hahaha"

I certainly hope that degree works out for you as well as you think it will.

LarryDaMan

I certainly hope that degree works out for you as well as you think it will.

+1

jryantech

undomiel wrote:

jryantech wrote:

Oh please

The only thing I learned from that link is that the girl in the video needs new glasses.
I mean come on, thick black outlined glasses is not cruise control to achieving "cool"...

As for degrees vs. non-degrees I encourage anyone dim-witted enough to believe this garbage. Because that is just one less person I have to interview against later down my career.

Employer to me: "Hello, I see you have an A.A. and Bachelors in this field, also some nice certifications and would you look at this, experience to boot! Very well."

Me: "Yep I believe I'm ready for this job"

Employer to the other guy: "Hello, I see you have no degree but a bunch of certifications and some experience! That is nice I suppose, whats the deal with no degree?"

Other guy: "Oh, well The Wall Street Journal said degrees have a declining value so what a poor investment getting one of those would be, right?!! hahaha"

I certainly hope that degree works out for you as well as you think it will.

What implies in that post that I think it is a free ticket?

The only thing I might agree with is that degrees are a bit overpriced.

Plus this subject is a double edged sword...
If you do not have a degree or not pursing one you will agree that degrees are declining in value.
But if you have a degree or you're pursing one you will think this is ridiculous.

NetAdmin2436

I too have been discriminated against for having college degrees

I have an AA (Associate in Arts) and AAS (Associates of Arts in Computer Networking) and I often seriously think companies could care less about them, which is annoying to say the least.

On the other hand it seams, if you have your MCSE/MCSA (or another high relatively high ranking cert) companies have open arms. My AAS in computer networking was much harder to obtain then my MCSA, which I got in 4 months and averaging about 1-2 hours a day studying while having a full time job. I should have my MCSE in another 3 months. So that would be 7 months to get my MCSE. Big deal. My AAS took me 1 1/2 years to complete with 6 hours a day in class (m-f) plus homework. I'm not saying MCSA/MCSE is easy to obtain by no means, but it's been much quicker to obtain and less study time than an AA (and obviously a BA).

That's part of the reason I'm on techexams and trying to get my certs so nice343 will hire me

Agreed, Degree + Certs + Experience is ultimately the way to go.

mengo17

larrydaman wrote:

All things being equal, having a degree is better. However, it is not unheard of for college graduates to be flipping burgers...

I find at my work the only people who dismiss the importance of a degree are the people who don't have one.

Very true.
The point is IMO: "isn't any big guarantee of employment, it's a basic requirement, a step you have to take to even be considered for many professional jobs."

darkerosxx

larrydaman wrote:

I find at my work the only people who dismiss the importance of a degree are the people who don't have one.

QFT

jryantech

NetAdmin2436 wrote:

I too have been discriminated against for having college degrees

I have an AA (Associate in Arts) and AAS (Associates of Arts in Computer Networking) and I often seriously think companies could care less about them, which is annoying to say the least.

On the other hand it seams, if you have your MCSE/MCSA (or another high relatively high ranking cert) companies have open arms.

Normally AA degrees do not touch deep into the subject(Unless it is a General AA)...

And obviously having any high ranking certification is going to have people opening their arms, thats just common sense...

darkerosxx

mengo17 wrote:

The point is IMO: "isn't any big guarantee of employment, it's a basic requirement, a step you have to take to even be considered for many professional jobs."

QFT as well. That's also in large part due to the crappy education a lot of universities are putting out these days. For technical positions, the majority aren't doing enough to make graduates stand out.

mengo17

QFT?

jryantech

mengo17 wrote:

QFT?

Quoted for Truth.

Basically agreeing with the statement.

NetAdmin2436

jryantech wrote:

NetAdmin2436 wrote:

I too have been discriminated against for having college degrees

I have an AA (Associate in Arts) and AAS (Associates of Arts in Computer Networking) and I often seriously think companies could care less about them, which is annoying to say the least.

On the other hand it seams, if you have your MCSE/MCSA (or another high relatively high ranking cert) companies have open arms.

Normally AA degrees do not touch deep into the subject(Unless it is a General AA)...

And obviously having any high ranking certification is going to have people opening their arms, thats just common sense...

I agree they don't go to deep.... but they cover A LOT of material. An AA can cover Unix, Linux, Cisco, and M$. I had specific classes for each one when I went.

EDIT: I forgot to mention Novel....but I think it's been forgotten by many others anyhow.

LarryDaMan

jryantech wrote:

Normally AA degrees do not touch deep into the subject(Unless it is a General AA)...

And obviously having any high ranking certification is going to have people opening their arms, thats just common sense...

You don't need to get a degree, you may already know everything...

In many places in Europe "going to University" is commonplace and people probably complete college at a higher rate than we finish high school in this country. If you're expecting the heavens to open up and the seas to part when your expensive piece of paper arrives in the mail... don't hold your breath.

darkerosxx

larrydaman wrote:

In many places in Europe "going to University" is commonplace and people probably complete college at a higher rate than we finish high school in this country. If you're expecting the heavens to open up and the seas to part when your expensive piece of paper arrives in the mail... don't hold your breath.

Wanted to quote this and be sure people understand the other side of your comment. Sure the degree may not get you anything at all and may seem worthless, but if everybody has one and you don't, it all of a sudden is worth a lot.

jbayne3

i think what it all comes down to is education...you have to keep educating yourself to gain more experience.

(most) academics will argue the unimportance of certs, as (most) non-degree cert holders will criticize degree holders for lacking technical expertise. The truth of the matter is that each play a vital part in this industry...

I think it is important to persue both. If you have both, you are already at an advantage. Some employers will emphasize certs, the others will emphasize degrees.

The reason I got my job was mostly b/c my employer liked my work ethic as an intern, and therefore offered me a full time position. However, there was a degree requirement for coming on full time.. Ironically, most of what I do evolves around my certifications and not my degree.

So cheers to having both!

Currently, I'm pursuing my MCSE and my Master's Degree....hopefully have the MCSE done within 6 months, and I should be graduating in a year and a half...it's a lot of work, but totally worth it

mengo17

jbayne3 wrote:

i think what it all comes down to is education...you have to keep educating yourself to gain more experience.

(most) academics will argue the unimportance of certs, as (most) non-degree cert holders will criticize degree holders for lacking technical expertise. The truth of the matter is that each play a vital part in this industry...

I think it is important to persue both. If you have both, you are already at an advantage. Some employers will emphasize certs, the others will emphasize degrees.

So cheers to having both!

+1

Slowhand

A degree, a handful of certifications, and experience are not guarantees that you'll be successful. Nor is hard work and dedication. These things are pieces of the puzzle, they're requirements and recommendations. Having them gives you the potential to do better, but does not hand success to you.

Should you go to school? Yes. Should you get certified? Yes. Should you gain any experience you can? Yes. Should you give it your all and go above and beyond what's required of you at work? Yes. Each of these things gives you a slightly better chance to be successful, but it takes some luck, some good timing, and some innovative thinking to make you the next Larry Page or Bill Gates. It's kind of like moving to Hollywood because you want to be an actor. Countless thousands do it, a few hundred find work, and only a handful become stars. You want to give yourself the best chance possible to be the next big thing, but chances are you'll at least be comfortable and find the work you enjoy doing.

undomiel

Slowhand wrote:

Having them gives you the potential to do better, but does not hand success to you.

Thank you. I wish I knew how to express it as simply as you did. It is just the general attitude of the boards does not seem to understand this simple fact.

FluxCapacitor

I think that college is becoming undervalued because, lets face it, most people go to college after high school these days. I think that the higher the degree level the better though. Everybody has a bachelors degree. they're a dime a dozen, but not everybody has a masters degree. If you have a masters degree and the certs and experience to back it up then you are on the top of the pile of resumes at any company.

TryPingingTheServer

mengo17 wrote:

"isn't any big guarantee of employment, it's a basic requirement, a step you have to take to even be considered for many professional jobs."

Just sharing this article, since I saw a lot of threads on Degree or no Degree recently here...
It is worth reading it... see the video too...

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121623686919059307.html?mod=yhoofront

Great way to start a blood bath! I got nothing out of it. Here's two more that are bound to generate hate as opposed to meaningful discussion:

"The Declining Value Of Your CCIE"

"The Declining Value Of Your MCSA"

darkerosxx

lol

shednik

Yet again another thread on this and the same things are said having a degree will never hurt you, I don't understand how people can think formal education isn't worth it. It shows commitment to something, yes some classes are bogus but overall it paints a good picture persay. When it comes down to it when you're up against a number of candidates for a position and you have everything the other ones have just you have a degree and they don't that will help you be set apart.

dynamik

shednik wrote:

Yet again another thread on this and the same things are said having a degree will never hurt you, I don't understand how people can think formal education isn't worth it. It shows commitment to something, yes some classes are bogus but overall it paints a good picture persay. When it comes down to it when you're up against a number of candidates for a position and you have everything the other ones have just you have a degree and they don't that will help you be set apart.

Exactly. People wouldn't be strippers for years to get a degree in fashion design if it wasn't worth it.

candycorn

threads like this make me wish I was some sort of technical child prodigy. Getting my masters at 13, and ruling the world. Anyone have any insane life success stories?

shednik

dynamik wrote:

Exactly. People wouldn't be strippers for years to get a degree in fashion design if it wasn't worth it.

Wow I love the analogy

eMeS

I read this article earlier and I don't see that's it's necessarily about college degrees.

They give two examples:

1. Woman with 2 college degrees and a specialization in data modeling.

2. Man with 1 college degree and a specialization in some obscure type of bonds.

Neither of their expertise in their specializations was earned when they attended college.

#1 lost her job and was unable to find another one that paid the same amount. Her specialization is being done less expensively by others.

#2 was the beneficiary of huge salary growth because of the rarity of his specialization.

Isn't this more of a story about picking a rare specialization that can't be done by someone less expensively? I just don't see how having a degree was a factor, as there were probably several other reasons why she wasn't able to find a job in the timeframes discussed in the article.

Either I totally missed something or this article is a good example of a catchy headline with a story that seriously mishandles cause and effect.

MS

undomiel

shednik wrote:

Yet again another thread on this and the same things are said having a degree will never hurt you, I don't understand how people can think formal education isn't worth it. It shows commitment to something, yes some classes are bogus but overall it paints a good picture persay. When it comes down to it when you're up against a number of candidates for a position and you have everything the other ones have just you have a degree and they don't that will help you be set apart.

If you can get it without student loans then I say totally go for it. But it isn't worth the student loans. It will take more work to get to the same point without the college degree but you can still get to the same point. Plus you will learn a lot faster with on the job experience. Then if you go back for a degree now that you can afford it you won't waste your time hopping from major to major and wasting even more money.

It is also perfectly possible to go to school while holding down a full time job and avoid the student loans as well straight out of high school. That is what my wife did. It takes a lot of work but that is possible as well.