Pirated software in a large business....

RobertKaucher

I just tarted a new job. Company will remain nameless. 17 locations accross three major cities for our area. Every copy of MS Office 2003 Pro is pirated. Probably 35 copies.

I understand the moral side of this issue well, I need no advice there. What I would like is in put on how to deal with this should my boss ask me to ignore the issue. If she refuses to correct the problem, I will resign. But I would like some help on what arguments I can use to convince her that this is a real liability for the company. BTW, the guy I replaced died. Please document your networks....

msteinhilber

1.) Disgruntled employee calling 1-800-RULEGIT

2.) Does MS perform any piracy checks on Office 2003? Never run into a pirated copy that I had to update.


I'm sure there are additional reasons, but I think number one is the big one. I previously had worked for an organization which meant to follow licensing guidelines, but at the branch level many of the managers simply turned a blind eye to it. An upset employee called Microsoft and it was quite the hassle for us. On the flip side, our organization was a system builder, so we basically had to open our doors for Microsoft to come in and audit us and provide proof of license for each copy of Microsoft software installed. Those which were not we had to pay a hefty premium to retain our ability to continue to purchased system use copies of Windows.

RobertKaucher

Yes, they do. Problem is it is a volume key. Also, no PC on network has really been updated in a while.

I had not considered 1. Good point. Though she would respond, "how would they know?"

I found this interesting page: http://www.microsoft.com/protect/promotions/us/wga_idc_us.mspx

aordal

RobertKaucher wrote:

BTW, the guy I replaced died. Please document your networks....

Bahahahaah.... poor guy, but that's funny as hell.

On a side note, you're 100% sure you don't have an MSDN site license for office?

astorrs

aordal wrote:

On a side note, you're 100% sure you don't have an MSDN site license for office?

I'm 100% sure they don't have an MSDN site license - since there is no such thing.

Are you thinking of an Enterprise Agreement? If so the minimum number of desktops is 250, so again no they wouldn't have one of those either.

aordal

Err ya I mixed em up.

RobertKaucher

I was presented with a flash drive that had a folder called 02k3. In that folder was the installation files and a text file written by a gentleman known as Kimosabe explaining how to install and use the included license key. I am certain it is pirated.

blargoe

Is it possible she doesn't know it's pirated software?

RobertKaucher

She may have been unaware initially, but I have informed her. I believe that she was aware already, but turned a blind eye. My impression from our initial conversation regarding this, was that she believed it to be less than trivial.

RobertKaucher

astorrs wrote:

aordal wrote:

On a side note, you're 100% sure you don't have an MSDN site license for office?

I'm 100% sure they don't have an MSDN site license - since there is no such thing.

Are you thinking of an Enterprise Agreement? If so the minimum number of desktops is 250, so again no they wouldn't have one of those either.

You can do volume agreements on 5+ PCs.
http://download.microsoft.com/download/7/a/a/7aa89a8b-bf4d-446b-a50c-c9b00024df33/249188/VLP_Interactive_Commercial_Final_April%2007.pdf

royal

RobertKaucher wrote:

She may have been unaware initially, but I have informed her. I believe that she was aware already, but turned a blind eye. My impression from our initial conversation regarding this, was that she believed it to be less than trivial.

This person is putting the entire company at risk and putting everybody's job at risk. Talk to her manager and if they still don't do something about it, report this to the BSA.

RobertKaucher

She's the CFO! LOL

BSA? Boy Scouts of America?

astorrs

Business Software Alliance

royal

RobertKaucher wrote:

She's the CFO! LOL

BSA? Boy Scouts of America?

Business Software Alliance:
http://www.bsa.org/country/Report%20Piracy.aspx

They're the ones that come knocking on the door to validate legal compliance

Ahriakin

You might also point out that they could use Open Office instead for free...legally free . It's pretty cool, just lacks some compatibility with the more advanced features but for 99% of the average user's work it's fine.

Talic

I think you should be careful when doing something about it. With the economy as bad as it is, it's getting harder to find work if you report her and she finds out that you did. Just tell her it's not a legal copy and that there's a alternative out there and show her open office and maybe she'll change her mind.

TechBoy22

ok I know that ill get a lot of hating on this one but here's my opinion.

I think you should leave it alone and mind your own.

Reason:

If you like most people watch bootleg dvds and download music then you as I know that piracy will live on and people who dont get bothered by it will continue to embrace it. do I condone it? NO i dont, but at the same time im just as guilty by downloading music or watching bootlegs.

Now if you complain about her and take action be prepared to suffer just as much consequences because if she goes down, the company goes down. You will then be the primary cause of people losing there jobs.

Shes had this implemented for who knows how long and she hasnt gotten caught. If one day comes and she does get caught then her time has come and itll happen.

What i think you should do...I think you should turn your face do your job and if it bothers you that much QUIT and go to a different company.

These are the facts so for those of you who take offense GET OVER IT.

I love IT just as much as the next guy and I dont support cheating or piracy BUT the fact is, you CAN NOT stop it! This is something that is bigger then you.

If this lady finds you to be a threat, youre gonna lose your job. Im not telling you to support what has been done, im telling you to ignore it because you are not big enough to deal with the consequence of being at fault for people losing their jobs over a phone call complaint by you which has led up to investigation. Think about it and whatever you do good luck!

THIS IS NOT MEANT TO OFFEND ANYBODY NOR DO I SUPPORT ANY FOUL PLAY!!

RussS

First up - make 100% they do not have a Microsoft Volume Licence. Then if they do, find out how many they are licenced for. I have come across many an organisation that does things that way, but nobody realises how it is done and they have a licence for say 100 copies and have 200 in use.

Daniel333

Sounds like they have a volume license. But if not...

I wouldn't say a word, just do your job working through it and let them worry about licensing. 35... 50 licenses won't hurt them too bad if they get cought. They have to pay full price for them, plus a small fee. (we had a client just recently in this situation)

If you say anything...
Best case scenerio, they resolve the issue and hold it against you.

Worst case, you say something, they get busted and think you ratted them out and it gets held against you another way.

If you want to use this to get ahead, talk up Open Office and it's ilk.

ladiesman217

It's not new here in the Philippines. If you can see companies in US using pirated softwares that could be 1 out of a thousand and that's nothing comparing to Ph. One company I've worked before also use unlicensed software. Now I don't know if listing my MCP cert in my resume would be favorable because I know there's a lot big companies that uses pirated OS. Is there a reward if you can point them out?

eMeS

Honestly, these situations suck.

Your resignation is likely to do nothing other than cause you to be without a job until you find the next one. There's a quote about "choosing battles wisely" that fits here....Unless you have the specific job of compliance and/or managing vendor agreements, I don't believe that this issue is specifically your battle to fight.

Although we can all recognize that the behavior is wrong, many things in this world are wrong. I'll be the first to stand up and say that I'm largely doing nothing about at least a few of those things. There are about a million examples that I could use here....

I don't think it is what you're proposing here as much as it is the way that you go about it. Issuing an ultimatum to your boss is as unlikely to eliminate the risk as it is likely to eliminate your employment. Put yourself in your boss' shoes; if she caves into an ultimatum in this one case (even if it is the right thing to do), then what's the next ultimatum?

Because you indicated that this is a large US company, and it appears that there is an executive board in place, there are a couple of questions that I would like to ask. First, is this a publicly traded company? If it is then there is likely an audit board or some such entity that ensures that controls are achieved and risks are managed. This board would also manage any regular audit activities. This entity typically has some amount of authority over the executive board.

What I would be likely to do in this case is to make it someone elses' problem. A better way to say it would be to make it the right people's problem. If there is such an audit board (or other such entity) then your job is to raise the risk to their attention. Let them work through their processes and methods to determine the extent of the risk and how best to mitigate it. Do this as much as possible through email to document your actions.

Taking this approach will make you look more like a knowledgeable team player who is genuinely concerned about risks and can work inside the system to achieve change, than like a smug prick whose solution to the problem is to walk away from it.

MS

PS: Regarding the BSA, I believe that we all agree to that nonsense when we click "agree" on a shrink-wrap license. However, I've yet to work with any company that wouldn't frogmarch those jerks right out onto the street if they showed up and demanded proof of licenses. In reality, most large companies will conduct other audits intended to guarantee that licenses are controlled.

Pash

It is alarming to see so many of these threads started on the boards in all honesty.

Simple steps:-

1. As others have said, ask about the current license information (if there is any).

2. Raise your concerns to your piers if the software is pirated.

3. Offer to provide assistance in licensing the company correctly and legitimately. Not only will this give you the experience of MS licensing but it will show that you a) noticed a potential issue b) pro actively sought to offer your help to correct it (if possible)

4. Do not panic.

UnixGuy

http://www.sun.com/software/openoffice/index.jsp

paintb4707

RobertKaucher wrote:

I just tarted a new job. Company will remain nameless. 17 locations accross three major cities for our area. Every copy of MS Office 2003 Pro is pirated. Probably 35 copies.

I understand the moral side of this issue well, I need no advice there. What I would like is in put on how to deal with this should my boss ask me to ignore the issue. If she refuses to correct the problem, I will resign. But I would like some help on what arguments I can use to convince her that this is a real liability for the company. BTW, the guy I replaced died. Please document your networks....

Inform them of the consequences. I believe your company could be charged a fine for 3x the MSRP cost of the software per pirated copy on top of buying the correct number of licenses that you're really using.

If she's a CFO she should be able to crunch those numbers rather fast.

I also found this on the SIIA website:

What are the penalties for having more software programs loaded onto company computers than the company has licenses?
The penalties for under-licensing are the same as those for software piracy. Under federal copyright law the company may be liable for up to $150,000 for each software program infringed. The law also permits the software publisher to recover court costs and attorneys' fees it spends to sue the company and to destroy the all illegal software found at the companies. In cases of willful piracy, criminal penalties may also be assessed against the company.

empc4000xl

I can't read all the post, but I will say this. With this economy in the way its in, leave it alone for now until jobs are plentiful. Don't get yourself on the ish list. I hate to say this about morals or ethics, but the reality of things now are that they are bad nation wide, so you can't afford to be without a job. I would inform her that its illegal and if she doesn't work in the steps to make the changes its her fault.

tdempsey

Print copies of emails sent and received on this matter and take them home. Keep a log of discussions with names and dates. If this situation goes bad and heads start rolling, people start getting thrown under the bus - best thing to do is make sure it's not you.

Sie

Yeah, as everyone has said voice your opinions via email and keep them safe.

If they want to do anything then its up to them but you have covered your own back!

shednik

I'd have to say I completely agree with the tactic eMeS suggested, if this is a large company there is likely some form of audit that is completed each year. Let the compliance group know of the situation and let them handle it.

Mishra

You aren't the licensing police. You are there to inform and fix. Do your job, let management know they have pirated copies, then go about your business. It's their decision to hide it, not yours. I could make some goofy analogy up here but you can think of your own.

I'm stern only because I want a stronger point portrayed. I don't have a problem with you or what you are asking.

Good luck.

gorebrush

Send a query to Microsoft - explain that the guy died and you need licensing information for your company.

I've done this before now.

HeroPsycho

empc4000xl wrote:

I can't read all the post, but I will say this. With this economy in the way its in, leave it alone for now until jobs are plentiful. Don't get yourself on the ish list. I hate to say this about morals or ethics, but the reality of things now are that they are bad nation wide, so you can't afford to be without a job. I would inform her that its illegal and if she doesn't work in the steps to make the changes its her fault.

If there's a record of you raising concerns, and they said something on record that they didn't care or weren't going to take care of it, and you did nothing, you can be held accountable. For example, if you knowingly install pirated software yourself, vendors including Microsoft could revoke your certifications.

If they're not gonna do anything about it, I'd quietly begin looking for another job and get the heck out of dodge.