Pirated software in a large business....

I just tarted a new job. Company will remain nameless. 17 locations accross three major cities for our area. Every copy of MS Office 2003 Pro is pirated. Probably 35 copies.

I understand the moral side of this issue well, I need no advice there. What I would like is in put on how to deal with this should my boss ask me to ignore the issue. If she refuses to correct the problem, I will resign. But I would like some help on what arguments I can use to convince her that this is a real liability for the company. BTW, the guy I replaced died. Please document your networks....

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JJArms

empc4000xl wrote:

I can't read all the post, but I will say this. With this economy in the way its in, leave it alone for now until jobs are plentiful. Don't get yourself on the ish list. I hate to say this about morals or ethics, but the reality of things now are that they are bad nation wide, so you can't afford to be without a job. I would inform her that its illegal and if she doesn't work in the steps to make the changes its her fault.

Let me take this is a bit futher -- leave it alone; however, what ever software you install for now on make sure you have a license for.

At my job the general end users want me to use pirated software for them and I absoutely refuse. I just look at them and tell them "I will never willing use pirated software".

This economy is in bad shape, why take money out of a software developers pocket?

If they need an application really badly, I find a free/trial version for them to use.

Don't try to change the company, just hold yourself to a higher standard.

Regards,

JJArms~

empc4000xl

JJArms wrote:

empc4000xl wrote:

I can't read all the post, but I will say this. With this economy in the way its in, leave it alone for now until jobs are plentiful. Don't get yourself on the ish list. I hate to say this about morals or ethics, but the reality of things now are that they are bad nation wide, so you can't afford to be without a job. I would inform her that its illegal and if she doesn't work in the steps to make the changes its her fault.

Let me take this is a bit futher -- leave it alone; however, what ever software you install for now on make sure you have a license for.

At my job the general end users want me to use pirated software for them and I absoutely refuse. I just look at them and tell them "I will never willing use pirated software".

This economy is in bad shape, why take money out of a software developers pocket?

If they need an application really badly, I find a free/trial version for them to use.

Don't try to change the company, just hold yourself to a higher standard.

Regards,

JJArms~

I think you put it across the best at the end. Don't try to change the company, just hold yourself to a higher standard.

RobertKaucher

Thanks for the input, folks. I appriciate it. As I said in a previous post, the licensing was a text file written by a guy called Kimosabe explaining how to enter the license keys. It was clearly from some file sharing system.

I am going to document the case and draw up a plan to phase out the pirated software and deploy office 2007. If my plan is not received well I will begin to look for a new job. I am the only IT and I am not allowing this stuff to be installed on my network. I am already getting preasure from a woman who needed her PC reinstalled due to a malware issue to install it on her PC.

KGhaleon

Well, it's your job and it sounds like you haven't even taken the time to talk with the manager about it. You really need to enquire with her before doing anything. Might save you a lot of time worrying.

Like what was previously stated, put your thoughts about it out there and let her know there are other options assuming that the software is really pirated, then let her deal with it. If you can, maybe do this via email and save the trail...that way if they ever try to put the blame on you, you can save yourself by pulling out the emails.

msteinhilber

RobertKaucher wrote:

I am going to document the case and draw up a plan to phase out the pirated software and deploy office 2007. If my plan is not received well I will begin to look for a new job. I am the only IT and I am not allowing this stuff to be installed on my network. I am already getting preasure from a woman who needed her PC reinstalled due to a malware issue to install it on her PC.

Sounds like an uphill battle. If I were you, I would begin looking for a new job because it doesn't sound like you will be remaining at this job for much longer be it because you quit or because they fire you.

I don't agree with piracy as well, but you have to face the reality a bit. The reality is you just started this job, they have been doing it this way for some time, and if your attitude that you display in this forum is anything like the attitude you are giving your employer/co-workers then I can't see this working out well for you. What I mean by attitude is when you say "I am not allowing this stuff to be installed on my network". I agree, pirated software is a hazard to the organization, but in this case you are turning it into a hazard to your job. You are a relatively new employee and your attitude is that you control all aspects of the network. It's not your network, it is your employers network, and in their minds they will be the ones who have the ultimate say as to how you control their network.

Another part that is going to look fairly bad to your employer is refusing to install the software pirated or not, on another employees PC. Does she require the software to do some aspect of her job? If she does, and you denied her the software then you are now costing your employer money in terms of decreased productivity and/or lost revenue in addition to planting seeds with your co-workers that you are what they might think of as a stereotypical rude IT person who thinks they are God (I'm not at all implying you think or are this way, juts trying to project how they may feel).

I think it is a good thing to try and get this issue resolved, but I think that your methods could be a bit more thought out as to not cause as much difficulty for the rest of the organization while you try to arrive at a resolution.

HeroPsycho

You need to be smart about this. It's actually in your best interest to not have it documented you're aware of the pirated software. Have a verbal conversation about it to determine if they're supportive about going legit. If they're not, don't document that you're aware there's a problem. If your org gets busted, and you weren't the ones who turned them in, as I said, you can be held responsible.

RobertKaucher

msteinhilber wrote:

What I mean by attitude is when you say "I am not allowing this stuff to be installed on my network". I agree, pirated software is a hazard to the organization, but in this case you are turning it into a hazard to your job.

I would not approach a customer, either internal or exteranl, in this way. Please understand when I use "my network" on this forum it means the domain designated as my primary job responsability.

If the network and PCs are my responsability I believe I have an ethical resposnability to shield my company from IT threats that could cause it harm. If a user wanted to install a wireless access point I would bring the issue up with my boss. If my boss said the user should have it, I would do my best to make sure it was safe and did not cause any issues on the network, even if I disagreed. I cannot be sure this software is safe, nor can I fulfill my ethical duty to protect the company from harm.

The fact is if this is not taken care of, the time will come when I will be asked to install or repair a corrupt installation of this software. Should I just do my job and install it?

Say your boss stole $10000 in product from a vendor you have a long standing relationship with and whose products you depended on for your career... what would you do then? I see little difference here.

dynamik

I'd try to get the issue resolved while going with the flow for the time being. That's probably going to be a significant amount of money, so I think you're being unrealistic if you think it's going to be resolved immediately. If they don't show any interest in remedying the situation, start looking for something new.

Did you say these are or aren't getting updates? I would be pretty concerned about running an email application, especially one with as much functionality as Outlook, that wasn't up to date.

msteinhilber

RobertKaucher wrote:

The fact is if this is not taken care of, the time will come when I will be asked to install or repair a corrupt installation of this software. Should I just do my job and install it?

Say your boss stole $10000 in product from a vendor you have a long standing relationship with and whose products you depended on for your career... what would you do then? I see little difference here.

Should you do your job and install it even thought it's pirated? Yes, to an extent. The time had already come and you said no. I probably would have said yes, not because I condone software piracy because I do not - but because I was a new employee and flat out saying no even thought it's not a legitimate license may hinder another employees ability to perform, doesn't look good for your employer.

I certainly agree with you, your employer should most certainly take steps towards legally licensing the software they need. But I think dynamik put better what I was thinking but not really conveying in my previous post, just go with the flow for now. This does not mean that you have to continue installing the software through the rest of your tenure with this organization, but just to do so while you work towards conveying the importance of legally licensed software to your higher ups. That being said, if they not receptive to the proposition of using licensed software and expect you to continue using the pirated copy, then I think your decision to seek alternative employment would be just because an employer that doesn't value software in which they rely on everyday to conduct business and decides to short change Microsoft to save money is the same kind of employer that won't value you and may try and short change you any moment they can.

Hopefully they will be receptive to purchasing legit licenses, good luck!

HeroPsycho

msteinhilber wrote:

Should you do your job and install it even thought it's pirated? Yes, to an extent. The time had already come and you said no. I probably would have said yes, not because I condone software piracy because I do not - but because I was a new employee and flat out saying no even thought it's not a legitimate license may hinder another employees ability to perform, doesn't look good for your employer.

I'll take my chances finding another employer without a good recommendation from my current one over losing all my Microsoft certifications.

binarysoul

RobertKaucher wrote:

I understand the moral side of this issue well, I need no advice there.

First, I don't endorse piracy, noothing is free. But let me provide you with some 'light'. It's very interesting that you talk about 'moral', but yet you try to protect and defend Microsoft. Did you know that 'monopoly' that elimintes small companies and competition is also 'immoral'? So, if I were you I wouldn't defend a monopolistic company on 'moral' grounds as monoply is both illegal and immoral.

RobertKaucher

binarysoul wrote:

First, I don't endorse piracy, noothing is free. But let me provide you with some 'light'. It's very interesting that you talk about 'moral', but yet you try to protect and defend Microsoft. Did you know that 'monopoly' that elimintes small companies and competition is also 'immoral'? So, if I were you I wouldn't defend a monopolistic company on 'moral' grounds as monoply is both illegal and immoral.

This is the best one yet. So you are using the argument, two wrongs make a right? MS is bad so this is ok? My reasons for "defending" Microsoft are selfish, my future career. This thread is not about Microsoft's business model and whether it is moral or not, it's about the legal ramifications for me if I knowingly participate in rippping off a company I have a long standing relationship with and whose technology I depend on.

This thread has really been interesting. So many people who use TechExams are so quick to judge and barrate individuals who just use the three letters PDF when they discuss study materals, yet people have been just as quick to tell me to shut up and burn the pirated ISO here.

I have worked in a company that broke EULAs. I saw a number of employees who were "following orders" get thrown under the bus and lose their jobs. All the managers did was pleed ignorance, though I know to a degree it was a lie and they kept heir jobs. 8 guys I knew, some work friends some simple aquaintences, got booted to the street because they went along with the practice. Thank God it occured at a location I did not work at. So msteinhilber, go ahead and break the law and think it's ok for whatever reason you want.

I am going to sit for a week and see what happens. I will not install or repair any illegal software. If we do not formulate a plan to resolve the issue, I will begin looking for a new job. I'm not asking for the situation to completely fixed, NOW. What I mean by resolution is just a plan set out and documented so my ass is covered.

msteinhilber

HeroPsycho wrote:

msteinhilber wrote:

Should you do your job and install it even thought it's pirated? Yes, to an extent. The time had already come and you said no. I probably would have said yes, not because I condone software piracy because I do not - but because I was a new employee and flat out saying no even thought it's not a legitimate license may hinder another employees ability to perform, doesn't look good for your employer.

I'll take my chances finding another employer without a good recommendation from my current one over losing all my Microsoft certifications.

Sounds swell.

dynamik

RobertKaucher wrote:

This thread has really been interesting. So many people who use TechExams are so quick to judge and barrate individuals who just use the three letters PDF when they discuss study materals, yet people have been just as quick to tell me to shut up and burn the pirated ISO here.

I made that observation as well. Hopefully you didn't take my post the wrong way. The question I was raising is: If it came down to these two options, is it more ethical to not install/repair it on a single machine and walk away, or to allow it to go on a handful of machines as a band-aid in order to give you time to work towards, and ultimately implement, a solution?

It's a gray-area, and I don't think there's necessarily a clear-cut right or wrong answer (unless you just turn a blind eye to it, which would obviously be wrong). Personally, I think I'd work towards a solution if it was at all feasible since that would bring about the greatest amount of good. It's sort of like, would you kill one person to save twenty (only with less dire consequences

). I can't imagine MS stripping you of your certs if you were actively working towards a solution, but that is a concern as well.

Devin McCloud

I worked for a company that was using pirated MS visual studio 2005, server and other OS products. I was not in the IT department and never directly responsible for installations but I knew they were doing it. The worst part is this company had several locations and thousands of worker. I wonder sometimes if I should have reported them. I only worked their a couple of months. I think it's more common than people think. The worst part is that company was filthy rich!

Mishra

Devin McCloud wrote:

I worked for a company that was using pirated MS visual studio 2005, server and other OS products. I was not in the IT department and never directly responsible for installations but I knew they were doing it. The worst part is this company had several locations and thousands of worker. I wonder sometimes if I should have reported them. I only worked their a couple of months. I think it's more common than people think. The worst part is that company was filthy rich!

I worked at a mid sized company that had a pirated copy of netbackup. Eventually they purchased netbackup and everyone was let out of jail.

HeroPsycho

binarysoul wrote:

RobertKaucher wrote:

I understand the moral side of this issue well, I need no advice there.

First, I don't endorse piracy, noothing is free. But let me provide you with some 'light'. It's very interesting that you talk about 'moral', but yet you try to protect and defend Microsoft. Did you know that 'monopoly' that elimintes small companies and competition is also 'immoral'? So, if I were you I wouldn't defend a monopolistic company on 'moral' grounds as monoply is both illegal and immoral.

If you don't like Microsoft, don't use their software. Period. And this rationalization does nothing to protect yourself legally.

dales

Would it be an idea for the time being to suggest to the employers that whilst we/they try and find out the scope of the issue then you will install Openoffice as an alternative fully functioning product.

I agree that pirated software should not be used but myself have always suggested alternatives when things I say may "rock the boat". You never know the openoffice users may like it so much you can ditch office completely.

Where also would this problem end now that office licencing looks a bit iffy what about the OS, and other products the company has presumably purchased.

blargoe

If you don't as least ask, you are making an assumption that might not be correct. You know what might happen when you assume... so ask, and give the reason why you are asking... a "just in case you weren't aware..." kind of conversation. They may really not know, or understand what was going on.

The only thing you know for sure is the install source you are using apparently was a copy that came from a file sharing service or something like that. That doesn't *necessarily* mean they don't have licensing... maybe the previous admin as too lazy to download the iso from Microsoft. I've seen mind blowing junk like that before.

zen master

Am I the only one who doesn't understand how Robert is so sure that the company is pirating?

blargoe

You're not the only one.

pwjohnston

RobertKaucher wrote:

I just tarted a new job. Company will remain nameless. 17 locations accross three major cities for our area. Every copy of MS Office 2003 Pro is pirated. Probably 35 copies.

I understand the moral side of this issue well, I need no advice there. What I would like is in put on how to deal with this should my boss ask me to ignore the issue. If she refuses to correct the problem, I will resign. But I would like some help on what arguments I can use to convince her that this is a real liability for the company. BTW, the guy I replaced died. Please document your networks....

Regardless, I personally wouldn't quit any job until I have another lined up, especially in this economy.

mr2nut

With a volume license key, you dont get asked to register when you type it in. If she has media and a volume key, i'd count up all the clients and ask for the license paper to match things up.

With licensing, there is a legitimate loophole in that, say you have payed for 50 clients, in the summer you take on a load of temps for heavy workloads, you install it on as many PCs as you like, then as long as you uninstall them all before its time to relicense, it's fine. Many companies work like this and i'm sorry but with everyone struggling and MS making money from nothing most of the time sitting on billions, they need to back off a bit. I really hope linux becomes more user friendly and offers real support and i'd be quite happy to pay smaller amounts for their software. What Microsoft do is no better than piracy itself, and although I do love Microsoft products and highly recommend them, they're treading on thin ice these days.

KGhaleon

So did the TC talk to his boss yet?