MCSA VS CCNA:S, value

Bl8ckr0uter

I have been going back and forth on these for the last few weeks. I would like to see what someone else things.

Some Backgroud: I have been in IT for about 3 years, all helpdesk and I want to get into Network Engineering. I am currently self sudying for the CCNA and I plan to take the test on the 15th.

Choices: To help me find a better job it is obvious to me that a degree is in order (which I am working on, and it is in Network Engineering). After the 15th I am not 100% sure what certifications I want to go for (my current certs are A+/N+). I have the choice to go for CCNA:S, MCP/MCSA, or start studying immediatly for the CCNP (after I build my lab).

I have added a vote to this thread and I would like to see what people thing.

BTW the market here is OHIO. In my area there are strong job posting numbers for both Cisco + Microsoft.

networker050184

If you want to be a network engineer then Microsoft certs aren't really going to help you.

L0gicB0mb508

networker050184 wrote: »

If you want to be a network engineer then Microsoft certs aren't really going to help you.

Exactly. If you are planning to go into networking, stick with the Cisco stuff.

ColbyG

networker050184 wrote: »

If you want to be a network engineer then Microsoft certs aren't really going to help you.

This.

They are completely different certs, aimed at completely different areas of technology.

A side note, the CCNA specializations don't have much value yet, they're still very new and many employers don't even know what they are yet.

Bl8ckr0uter

ColbyNA wrote: »

This.

They are completely different certs, aimed at completely different areas of technology.

A side note, the CCNA specializations don't have much value yet, they're still very new and many employers don't even know what they are yet.

I have noticed this myself. Basically I was only thinking of doing the CCNA:S because I thought it would be a good thing to have (security is important). I did a search in my area and no one even knows about CCNA:S or V. So maybe I will study the material but not take the test until I am considering CCSP.

Bl8ckr0uter

I must say I am actually shocked with the votes so far. I would like to see a large sample size so everyone exercise you right to vote lol


To those who have voted thanks.

apd123

I posted something but it was so silly I deleted it.

Bl8ckr0uter

apd123 wrote: »

I posted something but it was so silly I deleted it.

lol. Ok. Well in the perspective of an CCIE. Do you only have Cisco certs? Did you hold the now staple of the IT Industry, the MCSE? Or were you just born with from router and raised by wild switches :wink

coffeeking

Totally 2 different domain; cannot compare. It is good to have knowledge of both but if you are shooting for a specific job, Network Engineer in your case, you should just stick with Cisco, MS is not going to help much in that area.

Bl8ckr0uter

coffeeking wrote: »

Totally 2 different domain; cannot compare. It is good to have knowledge of both but if you are shooting for a specific job, Network Engineer in your case, you should just stick with Cisco, MS is not going to help much in that area.

You know I know you are right. It is just that it seems people want more than just the CCNA/CCNP etc. It seems people want a least a MCP. I know I should go for an MCP but the MCSA is still up in question

Sumptuous

Those are 2 different roads and like what other guys have said .It depends on where you want to is it the networking side or the System admin side.

But word of advice you have to know your powerpoint first is it the Networking side or the System Admin side.And its your choice as for me it is wise to be a Multi -certified individual.

tenrou

There is merit in studying for both because unless you're very lucky your'e going to have to support the entire business infrastructure. This means both cisco and microsoft.

I'd probably recommend the mcsa and try to get up to a more sysadmin role because the higher level certs without experience tend to looked upon cynically.

Bl8ckr0uter

Sumptuous wrote: »

Those are 2 different roads and like what other guys have said .It depends on where you want to is it the networking side or the System admin side.

But word of advice you have to know your powerpoint first is it the Networking side or the System Admin side.And its your choice as for me it is wise to be a Multi -certified individual.

Thanks for the post and advice. I am thinking that in the future (the not to distant future) I will try to get a basic checkpoint certification and then some Juniper certs if I ever work with their routers. Honestly I am just thinking about the next year or so when I say CCNP. Also Since It will be one extra exam, the CCDP (well 2 if you include the CCDA) is also something I will stive to get (if all I do is cisco stuff and school)

So it may be like this BCSI BCMSN CCDA ISCW ONT ARCH or just CCNP, CCDA, CCDP. That is if I choose to go after the CCDA. I think that CCSP would be a better choice and it would fit into my goals a little better. Also I have been looking at an entry level checkpoint cert. I am not sure. I am still thinking.

Bl8ckr0uter

tenrou wrote: »

There is merit in studying for both because unless you're very lucky your'e going to have to support the entire business infrastructure. This means both cisco and microsoft.

I'd probably recommend the mcsa and try to get up to a more sysadmin role because the higher level certs without experience tend to looked upon cynically.

Thanks. I know there is truth in that.

My thing is I may need to do an MCP but do I need to do the MCSA or MCSE, esperically since the MCSE is on a almost 7 year old OS. I want to get into pure network engineering but it may take a job or two for me to get to that. Most people list either MCP or MCSE's as prereqs anyway, even for Network Engineering or Net Tech jobs..

RobertKaucher

When I was a consultant, I had two clients with NT4 Domains (200. They were not going to migrate until their old servers died. Most customers were server 2003 based, but there were several 2000 Server based. The fact that the MCSE 2003 credential is nearly 7 years old is irrelevant. It is going to be recognized, respected and form a foundation of client/server-operations knowledge for years to come.

I see the uber-IT worker as an individual who has demonstrated a wide range of technical abilities (an employee who can get the job done with any technology, not just what they know), demonstrated mastery of a specialized skill set, and posses soft-skills that can direct executives knowledge about IT operations so that they see how IT drives the departments that make money for the company.

For a Cisco guy having an MCSA or MCSE would clearly demonstrate knowledge of a wide range of technical abilities.

Bl8ckr0uter

RobertKaucher wrote: »

When I was a consultant, I had two clients with NT4 Domains (200. They were not going to migrate until their old servers died. Most customers were server 2003 based, but there were several 2000 Server based. The fact that the MCSE 2003 credential is nearly 7 years old is irrelevant. It is going to be recognized, respected and form a foundation of client/server-operations knowledge for years to come.

I see the uber-IT worker as an individual who has demonstrated a wide range of technical abilities (an employee who can get the job done with any technology, not just what they know), demonstrated mastery of a specialized skill set, and posses soft-skills that can direct executives knowledge about IT operations so that they see how IT drives the departments that make money for the company.

For a Cisco guy having an MCSA or MCSE would clearly demonstrate knowledge of a wide range of technical abilities.

Thanks for the reply. I think that is true. I don't want to get worked into a cisco only corner, or a windows only corner, or linux, or dba work, or pentester. I just want to be the best Engineer I can be. I may go ahead and finish the MCSA and do the CCNP next year. Alot of people seem to agree with that. I mean even if I start the CCNP right now, I couldn't really get it finished until I get my lab set up which will cost $$$, which is fine. I have everything I need to do the MCSA or even the MCSE right now. The test don't cost to much and Transcender would be my only expense. I may just go ahead and do this, and do CCNP/CCDA/CCDP and MCITP:SA next year.

shednik

knwminus wrote: »

Thanks for the reply. I think that is true. I don't want to get worked into a cisco only corner, or a windows only corner, or linux, or dba work, or pentester. I just want to be the best Engineer I can be. I may go ahead and finish the MCSA and do the CCNP next year. Alot of people seem to agree with that. I mean even if I start the CCNP right now, I couldn't really get it finished until I get my lab set up which will cost $$$, which is fine. I have everything I need to do the MCSA or even the MCSE right now. The test don't cost to much and Transcender would be my only expense. I may just go ahead and do this, and do CCNP/CCDA/CCDP and MCITP:SA next year.

Here's a bigger question for you...if you stated this earlier in the thread I missed it but are you working in either aspects be it system administration or network administration? If not I'd recommend getting either the CCNA and maybe the MCSA depending on what you would rather start with...get a job and then worry more about the high level certs. Honestly an MCSE or CCNP with no experience isn't going to help you as much as you think....you may hit the "over"-certified level for your expereince. I wanted a CCNP pretty bad but I decided to wait until I have 2 years under my belt first...

Bl8ckr0uter

shednik wrote: »

Here's a bigger question for you...if you stated this earlier in the thread I missed it but are you working in either aspects be it system administration or network administration? If not I'd recommend getting either the CCNA and maybe the MCSA depending on what you would rather start with...get a job and then worry more about the high level certs. Honestly an MCSE or CCNP with no experience isn't going to help you as much as you think....you may hit the "over"-certified level for your expereince. I wanted a CCNP pretty bad but I decided to wait until I have 2 years under my belt first...

Thanks for the post. No, I am working in the helpdesk. I am working on getting another job. So far I have had several interviews, phone interviews, and even an email interview (that one was interesting) but everyone wants either certs I don't have, a degree completed (which is in process but not done) or experience I can't get because no one will hire me because of the other 2. It is very annoying, I mean I have done tech assessments and aced them and everything, I was even promised a job by the owner of a company only to lose it to someone with more certs. I know certs do not = job but it will make me a little more marketable. Plus most of the cisco jobs want either CCNA's with 3-5 years experience or CCNP with 1 year exp. I am just trying to find a way off of the help desk and onto the level 1 server support. From there I would like to get into Net Engieering.

I can see it will be a fine line for me but I think I will make it

shednik

knwminus wrote: »

Thanks for the post. No, I am working in the helpdesk. I am working on getting another job. So far I have had several interviews, phone interviews, and even an email interview (that one was interesting) but everyone wants either certs I don't have, a degree completed (which is in process but not done) or experience I can't get because no one will hire me because of the other 2. It is very annoying, I mean I have done tech assessments and aced them and everything, I was even promised a job by the owner of a company only to lose it to someone with more certs. I know certs do not = job but it will make me a little more marketable. Plus most of the cisco jobs want either CCNA's with 3-5 years experience or CCNP with 1 year exp. I am just trying to find a way off of the help desk and onto the level 1 server support. From there I would like to get into Net Engieering.

I can see it will be a fine line for me but I think I will make it

I understand completely I was there not to long ago just keep at it...you'll find some great opportunities and some will be terrible. How much do you have left in your degree? Thats when I moved to my current job.

Bl8ckr0uter

shednik wrote: »

I understand completely I was there not to long ago just keep at it...you'll find some great opportunities and some will be terrible. How much do you have left in your degree? Thats when I moved to my current job.

About a year left in an A.A.S degree in Network Engineering (cisco). Depending on if I do my MCSE in the next few months I may have a A.A.S in Network Management (Microsoft) as well. There are some CCNP classes at the school I am going to (it is a cisco acad) but most people take the CCNA classes (and alot never take the cert).

I guess that is why I was looking to see what people thought. In my perfect world I would graduate next year with 2 A.A.S', A+, N+, CCNA, CCNP MCP, MCSA, MCSE. That would be my best case. I would be happy with 1 AAS (net eng) A+, N+ MCP, MCSA, CCNA, CCNP as well however.

Bl8ckr0uter

I am really shocked to see how the vote is turning out so far.

I think that it is pretty obvious that the MCSA will be needed, the only issue is what to study as far as the cisco side, CCNA:S or CCNP...

It is very close. I was curious to know (for people who hold CCNP's) does that exam go over much security. I mean would a CCNA:S+ CCNA know more about security than a CCNP (on average)?

shednik

knwminus wrote: »

I am really shocked to see how the vote is turning out so far.

I think that it is pretty obvious that the MCSA will be needed, the only issue is what to study as far as the cisco side, CCNA:S or CCNP...

It is very close. I was curious to know (for people who hold CCNP's) does that exam go over much security. I mean would a CCNA:S+ CCNA know more about security than a CCNP (on average)?

I'd say probably not the ISCW exam is very similar to the CCNA:S from what i'm told.

Bl8ckr0uter

shednik wrote: »

I'd say probably not the ISCW exam is very similar to the CCNA:S from what i'm told.

so besides the fact that it is a prereq for the CCSP, what is the point of CCNA:S (besides making cisco money )

Bl8ckr0uter

the vote is getting really intense.

I am very shocked now...

networker050184

No offense, but I think you should slow down and take things one step at a time. It doesn't really sound like you know what your career goals are if you don't know whether to get the MCSA or the CCNP. Take it day by day and get certified on what you have experience with. IMO the whole point of certification is to validate experience, not to substitute.

Bl8ckr0uter

networker050184 wrote: »

No offense, but I think you should slow down and take things one step at a time. It doesn't really sound like you know what your career goals are if you don't know whether to get the MCSA or the CCNP. Take it day by day and get certified on what you have experience with. IMO the whole point of certification is to validate experience, not to substitute.

My career goals are to be a network engineer. I mearly opened this up because I was trying to see what other people thought. I thought it might be harder for me if I only get cisco/checkpoint/juniper etc certs starting out because my next job might not be pure network engineering. My first goal is to get another job off of the helpdesk. I would like to get a JR net engineer but those seem to not exist. In Ohio most Net Jobs go to CCNAs with 5 year of experience or CCNPs with 6 months to 1 year of experience. Since I can just add 5 years of experience, I am just working and going for the higher cert. My ultimate goal is to be a network engineer (CCIE level and above).

You said that certs are not a replacement for experience and I agree with you up until a point. the CISSP takes a whole year off of the experience reqirement if you have the MCSE. The reason why I bring that up is because I think certifications are like a hammer, they can be used to build or to bludgeon but it is still a tool. Some people use it to prove experience. Some people use it to prove mind set and thinking level. I think I am using the later while you use the former. And that is ok, the cert don't mind. It is just there to be used lol....

RobertKaucher

networker050184 wrote: »

No offense, but I think you should slow down and take things one step at a time. It doesn't really sound like you know what your career goals are if you don't know whether to get the MCSA or the CCNP. Take it day by day and get certified on what you have experience with. IMO the whole point of certification is to validate experience, not to substitute.

I disagree with this slightly. I agree that it is a very good way to validate experience but there has to be a way for a person new to a field to demonstrate that they have the knowledge required to perform the job and one way to do that is certification. If you look at two people new to a field and one took the steps to gain a certification and the other did not, I would feel more comfortable with the one who took the extra steps to get certified.

Every person in a field needs to get started some place and I think that certification is a valid way to do this (although college is certainly better). No Network Admin was born that way.

apd123

I disagree with the idea of generalizing rather than specializing. What are you actually interested in or have an aptitude for?
If you are really interested in Cisco and Security whats wrong with the CCSP? The CCSP gives you knowledge of relevant products such as the ASA, ACS, IPS, NAC, MARS ok ok maybe only the first one of those is relevant, but you get the idea. The CCNA Security seems fairly redundant with one of the CCSP exams. Really though if your interest is security neither the CCNP or CCNA Security go far enough.

dynamik

apd123 wrote: »

I disagree with the idea of generalizing rather than specializing. What are you actually interested in or have an aptitude for?
If you are really interested in Cisco and Security whats wrong with the CCSP? The CCSP gives you knowledge of relevant products such as the ASA, ACS, IPS, NAC, MARS ok ok maybe only the first one of those is relevant, but you get the idea. The CCNA Security seems fairly redundant with one of the CCSP exams. Really though if your interest is security neither the CCNP or CCNA Security go far enough.

CCNA:S is a prereq for the CCSP. I agree though; there's no reason to stop there

Bl8ckr0uter

RobertKaucher wrote: »

Every person in a field needs to get started some place and I think that certification is a valid way to do this (although college is certainly better). No Network Admin was born that way.

I agree with you. I am going to school for Network Engineering (AAS) and then I want to get my BS in Network Design from WGU. I can't speed my degree up to much (prereqs are killing me) but I can go after certs while a go through classes right?

Bl8ckr0uter

apd123 wrote: »

I disagree with the idea of generalizing rather than specializing. What are you actually interested in or have an aptitude for?
If you are really interested in Cisco and Security whats wrong with the CCSP? The CCSP gives you knowledge of relevant products such as the ASA, ACS, IPS, NAC, MARS ok ok maybe only the first one of those is relevant, but you get the idea. The CCNA Security seems fairly redundant with one of the CCSP exams. Really though if your interest is security neither the CCNP or CCNA Security go far enough.

I do plan to go for the CCSP but the lab material for that seems $$$ so I wanted to go through the CCNP, CCSA, and/or CCDA, CCDP, CCNA:Sec first. Since CCNA:S is a prereq for CCSP, I think I may wait on that.


I am interested in a lot. I want to do linux, network engineering, pen testing (1 day), and so on and so forth.